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Not Hicks, although I was getting reports confused and that's where the four came from. Mostly this paragraph from the BBC article:
"However, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said it is investigating three cases involving "tactical contact" by Met police cars on scooters."
Looking at the stats, will the yout’ of London not all have murderised each other with hunting knives before the years out anyway?
Old Testament justice – get medieval on their asses. Think of it as evolution in action.
Should wr have that style of justice on everything?
For me this is a tricky one as the perps knew that met rules were " no chasing" people on scooters with no helmets so by taking off the helmet they knew they would get away. thus the change in the rules. I would hope that the change in the rules means that the perps will simply stop this tactic - I guess thats the aim. Its a very fine balance tho 'cos a death or two and it will all look very differnt. there was a kid on a scooter killed in Edinburgh in a chase with cops IIRC. Just a kid ragging around pilton on a stolen scooter ( no other crime) A lot of outcry over that.
Brad Williamson wasn’t being chased by the police.The motorbike they were on crashed into another car.
Its a very fine balance tho ‘cos a death or two and it will all look very differnt
The Metropolitan police said there had been a 36% reduction in thefts that involved mopeds or scooters since the tactics were adopted last year.
It's been used for nigh on 12 months, very rarely, and as said before if there were major casualties as a result I'm sure would have been reviewed and reported.
20,000 incidents in 2017, 12,000 this year, 63 times used. That's once in every 200 incidents give or take.
40% of pursuits involve mopeds.
To me it seems a reasonable way of dealing with people who have decided the rules of society don’t apply to them.
But then I agree with the death penalty so you may wish to ignore my view.
It's not a question of 'knowing the rules'
People in motorised vehicles who are putting other peoples lives at risk need to be taken down. If they fail to stop then they should be rammed off the road...
...lest they kill a kid or anyone if they are allowed to continue.
Strikes me that it’s reasonable and proportionate force utilised to stop and detain potentially violent, and certainly dangerous individuals, plain and simple. There are much bigger issues regarding our broken society, but the Met aren’t charged with fixing that. They have been told to address this new crime pattern, and they seem to have acted decisively, yet reasonably. Chapeau, TBH. Hope the first Bobby to unintentionally cause a KSI as a result of their strategy gets supported.
Still got this on my PC 🙂 Time for another game I think 🙂
It's not a question of 'knowing the rules'
People in motorised vehicles who are putting other peoples lives at risk need to be taken down. If they fail to stop then they should be rammed off the road...
...lest they kill a kid or a baby robin anyone if they are allowed to continue.
Smear them into the tarmac. 🙂
Ta BIkepawl
Summary justice isn't justice. It might be what passes for it in a society with a woefully under-resourced police force, and it might be effective, but it's not right.
For the contributor who sees riders with battery powered grinders, do you call it in? They're already committing an offence.
Is riding a moped with a battery powered grinder really an offence?
Going equipped is.
Is riding a moped with a battery powered grinder really an offence?
I beleive so, comes under the new being tooled up for robbing legislation!
Summary justice isn’t justice. It might be what passes for it in a society with a woefully under-resourced police force, and it might be effective, but it’s not right.
Justice comes when they appear in court with a judge and jury. What’s actually happening here is apprehension by the police while in the process of carrying out criminal acts involving weapons and caustic materials.
Keep going MET, and if they’re found carrying acids or alkalis then by all means pour on......
CZ +1
They police should install bull bar ... ramming speed please full speed awayyyyy! 😀
Going equipped:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/25
Summary justice is what a lot of people on this thread are getting all frothy for, see for example, the voice of reason above. 🙄
A person shall be guilty of an offence if, when not at his place of abode, he has with him any article for use in the course of or in connection with any <span class="LegChangeDelimiter">[</span>F1<span class="LegAddition">burglary or theft</span><span class="LegChangeDelimiter">]</span>F1 .
So having a moped is an article that can be used for theft? Even so, where does it say you can run that person over? If you saw someone with an article that could be used for burglary (a crowbar) walking down the street could the police just run him over to stop the burglary?
I think the knocking them off part comes in to play when the suspects refuse to stop. It seems like the most appropriate way to deal with the issue and seems to be working.
It's not summary justice though, it's the police stopping a dangerous situation from becoming more dangerous. Knocking them off after they failed to stop and are riding dangerously before they run someone over is protecting the public. That's thier job?
What is the reason there is not a heavy sentence for engaging in police pursuit?
Justice comes when they appear in court with a judge and jury. What’s actually happening here is apprehension by the police while in the process of carrying out criminal acts involving weapons and caustic materials.
Classic right wing grumpy old man "logic". Where is it stated this is only when weapons/acid used?
They should do this to cyclists who jump red lights. That'll learn 'em
"For the contributor who sees riders with battery powered grinders, do you call it in? They’re already committing an offence."
You are having a complete laugh / and or don't live in London.
This is a regular sight - they ride straight past police cars in traffic like this and the police do absolutely zip. I understand it's called "going equipped" but as the police can't chase or detain them they can pretty much do what they want e.g.
When we saw the moped gangs looking for families to rob in the park (driving in convoy round the paths with hoods up and bandanas over their faces - very menacing) the two police we saw strolling along the road outside the path basically said there was nothing they could do about it.
Reporting it to the police is a complete waste of time when until recently the police just sit in their cars pretending it's not happening even when it's right in front of them. They are right though - there's little they can do when they risk being suspended for years if they try and stop them.
Being honest the amount of grief I get from motorists about "you jump red lights" (I never do) I'd be up for cops on mopeds knocking RLJ crowd off their bikes.
I have no issue with this at all - good on 'em. The issue is Police Service resources have been reduced to a beyond dangerous level. Where I am there is one area car now in the Thames Valley that covers from Oxford all the way to Windsor during the week. That car is only manned by one officer, not two. I had to call a car out when some kids put a brick through a window and I asked what would happen if the officer was called to a violent disturbance and whether they felt vulnerable and they said definitely and now if its too dangerous they just dont get involved. This has created a problem that will take years to fix as each new generation of feral rats grows up they see what is going on around them and push the boundaries a little further. So well done to the Police for this.
No, I don't live in London. Call it in. The more reports there are, the more the police can point to the calls coming in, the more funding they can justify giving the problem. Doing nothing is not a solution. In and of itself it is contributing to the problem.
But hey, I've no skin in the game, I live in the South west. I don't really gas tbh.
this made me smile from Andy Kirkpatrick earlier...
Peter Hitchens @ClarkeMicah, the brother of the late Christopher, a man easy to dislike, but who puts the ‘right’ into right wing (i.e. he’s right about most things), once said that when you lost the word ‘force’ from the UK Police and replaced it with ‘service’ it was an invitation for criminals to prey on society (I can remember when the police would give you a thump and scared the shit out of you, while now they’re just social workers in stab vests). Anyway, although I don’t live in the UK it’s great to see predators being run down by some by force, not simply serviced.
Probably gives one a different perspective spending a lot of time in the city but a bit of zero tolerance wouldn't go amiss in Manchester at the moment.
"They should do this to cyclists who jump red lights."
Yes. If they don't stop when asked and it's the only option (which it wouldn't be for a push-bike where a truncheon or boot in the spokes would be effective and the rider isn't waving a machete)
More funding doesn't really solve the problem, all it gives you is more officers to ineffectively watch people riding away.
This isn't about summary justice, it's about getting the miscreants in front of a court in the first place.
The Police have been stopping vehicles in pursuits in a variety of means for years now, without many problems being sued as far as I'm aware, and I don't see why that needs to be changed for these moped riders. I've also known them run over knife wielding pedestrians in the street, that driver got a commendation iirc
The simple truth is that, for the most part, you're wrong. Police haven't been engaging vehicle pursuits and especially not motorbike pursuits. It is very rare for a pursuit to be authorised. Not surprisingly this isn't widely published, you won't find a statement on your local PCC website saying "our policy is to let violent criminals get away" but nonetheless the rules are there (you can read them on the College of Policing website). That's why the criminals are so surprised. That's why this type of crime has ballooned.
Yes, I know you see it on Road Wars, but one or two pursuits a year does not change the fact that they are an exception. A TV programme where ever chase is abandoned after 30 seconds, whilst accurate, wouldn't make good viewing.
Oh it's down south where our betters live. Suppose something will get done about it eventually. Them water cannons bought for taming the plebs might come in useful after all.
I would get the police to use bean bag round ... 😀
My only issue is how quickly some of them get up again after being knocked off.
All fun and games while they are knocking a generic 'youth scrote' off a moped, not so great when they haul you into a van and beat you within an inch of your life for looking a bit iffy/being a cyclist.
All fun and games while they are knocking a generic ‘youth scrote’ off a moped, not so great when they haul you into a van and beat you within an inch of your life for looking a bit iffy/being a cyclist.
Are you intending to use the slippery slope fallacy or the false equivalence fallacy? It's not clear which one I should be calling you out on.
A few weeks ago I say a rozzer chasing someone. The pursued guy rand across a train track and missed a train by inches. Chasing people to apprehend them and give them their trial is not without risk however you do it. In the case of these pursuits it seems pretty clear the net result is safer for almost everyone involved.
when they haul you into a van and beat you within an inch of your life for looking a bit iffy/being a cyclist
Ah obvs not enough rapha they're the fine upstanding cyclists
Chasing people to apprehend them
Stupid idea they should just shoot them and ask questions later US style
Proper entertainment, that video 😀
I'm not a huge fan of car drivers running down people arbitrarily but they do seem to be doing a fairly moderate and proportionate job, not taking them out at speed but just nudging the wheels. Also worth taking into account the safety of the general public who are at risk from these reckless louts.
I wonder if the cops get to stick little pictures of mopeds on the cars after each kill???
Of course, if they are caught they might not be meaningfully punished:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46370271
...and then there's this, (I won't say which frontline politician tweeted it):
"Knocking people off bikes is potentially very dangerous. It shouldn't be legal for anyone. Police are not above the law"
They seems to acknowledge that the police aren't acting illegally by saying it "shouldn't" be legal. And then they say the Police are not above the Law, which suggests they do think it's illegal. Possibly better to check before they commented.
*Not* knocking these guys off bikes is potentially more dangerous. They could kill themselves in a crash or spray acid in the face of a stranger. A bit of road rash is a small risk in comparison.
monkeysfeet
Possibly...
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I wonder if the cops get to stick little pictures of mopeds on the cars after each kill???
Private Eye has that very cartoon in this week's issue. 🙂
Probably not going to become a popular tactic now. Spoil sports.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46440172
Really. You didn't see that coming a mile off? It was after all mentioned in the third paragraph of the original BBC report and in the thread on here.
I'd offer my support, it's a good idea to use more force, it's clearly working if you beleive the figures, the country just needs to grow a backbone and mummy and daddy of said little sgits need to shut up...
Knew it’d happen, see my post, 4th one on this thread
The boy, who was not wearing a helmet, was admitted to hospital with serious head injuries but later discharged.
So not that serious then, eh? <Teej mode> Thank god he wasn’t wearing a helmet... <\Teej mode>
Knew it’d happen, see my post, 4th one on this thread
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-4644017
Police impunity generally sucks.
Police impunity generally sucks
Good job there doesn't seem to be any here then.
Actually, when you read the article, it’s a non story. ‘A decision is due’... ‘could be prosecuted’... well, dur; whenever a member of public (even if they are a suspect) is injured significantly during an interaction with police I would certainly hope that there would be an investigation, with a possible outcome being that some one ‘could be prosecuted’ IF they have overstepped the mark. There’s absolutely no indication that that is the case here though.
100% v8ninety, standard process after such an incident to review if the action was proportional and suitable in the circumstances.
e. g. If the lad had pulled over when attempted to be stopped, on a random police stop late at night and the copper drove in to him, then right to prosecute.
If lad was fleeing following a crime bing committed and putting member of public in further danger a d the opportunity to perform this manoeuvre where no other member of public could be harmed and would result in arrest of the suspect, where the driver had been trained and followed the procedure , crack on son here's a sticker for the car.
"That, Mr Anderson, is the sound of inevitability."
100% v8ninety, standard process after such an incident to review if the action was proportional and suitable in the circumstances.
Surely the police officer who knocked the rider off should be chased down the street by a car and run over. Ask questions later and all that....
"review if the action"
Does depend on the type of review and purpose. Not if the point of the review is a power struggle within the Home Office using a police officer as a pawn.
Supposing you made a mistake at work. Would the correct action be for you and your boss to sit down and discuss for half an hour or for you to be arrested?
Even more tricky if you were carrying out company policy.
This criminal investigation thing doesn't happen in any other industry, except possibly the military and merchant shipping. As a doctor if one of your patients dies then you aren't automatically arrested and accused of manslaughter.
As a doctor if one of your patients dies then you aren’t automatically arrested and accused of manslaughter.
Did the patient die because the doctor ran them over deliberately?
Surely the police officer who knocked the rider off should be chased down the street by a car and run over.
If he ran/rode/drove away in a vehicle of some kind that might well happen.