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Well with everyone back at home the home network is feeling the strain. On virgin, whose bandwidth is ok but routers /WiFi are known to be a bit shit.
I'm using power lines for a few connections due to the house size (tall Victorian town house, thick walls) powelines have never worked brilliantly due to having to traverse 2 consumer units.
So looking to replace all the power lines, hopefully stable mesh WiFi for everything.
Any recommendations? Don't know anything about this at all. Educate me! I don't mind spending a few quid for future proofed gear.
Tenda Nova is what I've got - cheap, works, far better than powerline
Any recommendations? Don’t know anything about this at all
Really?
How about doing a search of the forum? This bloody topic literally comes up every other week!
Put this into Google:
site:singletrackworld.com/forum mesh wifi
There’ll be talk of backhaul but I’d just get one of the Tenda kits that your budget stretches to. I’d put the router in modem only mode and let the mesh kit deal with the dns and routering.
Does come up a bit as a topic... and my standard reply: I've got the Google Nest Mesh setup, and very happy with it. It includes Google Home speakers if that's of interest.
Google Nest if you don’t mind them spying on you. Get the routers as mesh points though as the “point” tops out at 60 Mbps
BT whole home if you don’t mind having to reset them now and again. Steer clear of the “premium” ones which are very flaky.
The New Netgear Orbi (£329 for 3 x units) if you’ve got fast broadband.
Amazon Eero if you want cheap simple set up and don’t have a super fast connection
As mogrim. Can highly recommend the Google nest WiFi. Especially if you already have other Google smart devices
+1 for Tenda Nova - cheap, cheerful, not super-intuitive to set up but otherwise pretty bulletproof. 🙂
BT been good for us. One in the garage is backboned (cat5) on a powerline adapter, just in-case, as that's my signal out to the shed where I'm working. Two others in house, one in son's room as above router, other far side of lounge to cover garden/garage - shed way out of range.
Go for something above MESH just works.
f you’ve got fast broadband.
you have to have rediculously fast broadband to max out even the cheapest of meshes (AC1200) which get to 150mbps.
Amazon Eero if you want cheap simple set up and don’t have a super fast connection
Not got good reviews, though. Not that I've tried it personally.
you have to have rediculously fast broadband to max out even the cheapest of meshes (AC1200) which get to 150mbps.
Virgin 350 here, and I use Tenda Nova MW6s without issue.
Just don’t be tempted to add too many nodes. Each hop between nodes degrades the speed. You want to have as few as possible that provide full house coverage. Locate them carefully.
I've got the BT ones and as cheddarchallenged says, I've had to reset them a couple of times but other than that they seem to work fine.
So as a technology Luddite (I didn’t used to be but other things became more important and this stuff overtook me) which tends nova would be best and would this solve the problem of devices struggling with connection speed when we have lots of wireless devices connected? Seems to be WiFi that is the issue as the stuff directly connected to the tiger don’t seem to struggle and broadband speed is 100mb.
QQ not wanting to hijack the OPs thread, but are any mesh setups useful if the best speed you can get is 30mbps? We are on fibre to cabinet with no other options. Would cheer the kids up if it would improve things
Mesh will speed up the wifi devices further from the router.
It won't go faster than your connection, but 30 mbps isn't too bad. MESH will give you faster WIFI connection for the devices in bedrooms etc - the 'devices' can really drop the further away. You sort of daisy chain them. Put a disc in between a poor area to relay the signal. Pop the disc where there is good signal, then another a bit further away. It works well, and you've no 'switching' to do when moving about the house like using older wifi extenders.
I’d put the router in modem only mode and let the mesh kit deal with the dns and routering
what does this mean and how do you do it?
I'm on virgin with 3 tenda mw3 units in the house, but they won't reach to my shed 30m away at bottom of garden
I have the BT system with 3 discs in the house and one in an outbuilding/office via Cat5 as the outbuilding is too far away. I've had to reset it a couple of times in last 12 months but apart from that it's been great.
I've got the top of the range Tenda Nova, MW12. It's toss and I'm this > < far from trying to send it back.
There was a long thread a couple of weeks back.
Somebody recommended the BT whole home mini a few weeks back, I was just using a plug in range extender previously. The BT setup is much better, I was having lots of issues before and couldn't get signal at the far end of my house, now I can get it at the far end of my garden. It was easy to set up and no issues so far...
The bt shop often has refurb deals on their home wifi setup. I got a 3 pack of the non mini ones for £90.
The other advantage is no faffing with modem mode, it just delegates all nating to the router
I’d put the router in modem only mode and let the mesh kit deal with the dns and routering.
Intrigued on this too. I’ve been on TP Link for about 6 months now and it’s transformed wifi in the home.
I’ve got a sky router and sky Q. I tried running the sky Q off the tp link network and it crashed instantly, so have that now running off the sky router and everything else in the house off the tp link
Really?
How about doing a search of the forum? This bloody topic literally comes up every other week!
Instead of people berating an OP for not using a search function which a lot of people don’t know about why not send an email to STW each time insisting put in a working search function on the site instead? It really is an embarrassment for STW.
@Cougar what's the issue with the Tenda Nova MW12? I was looking at this as an option, but I'm on Virgin as well, if it doesn't play nicely I may have to look at something else.
I have the Orbi RBR50 setup.
If you have to use Pulse VPN for work you’ll be plugging in as it doesn’t play nice for some reason I haven’t got to the bottom of yet.
Otherwise it’s pretty good. Base is in cupboard under stairs, satellite 1 in back bedroom so it can bridge to the one in the garage 15-20 metres away. Even daisy chained like that, can run Zwift and streaming music in the garage no worries.
In the general spirit of recommending what you own, I have been been incredibly impressed with my Plume mesh.
https://www.plume.com/gb/homepass/
Tenda ones here (a mix of MW5 and MW6). Seem pretty stable, just a couple of reboots needed over the last 12 months. And they cope well with 4 people working/schooling from home every day.
I have 4 in the house and one in a detached garage for Zwift duties - which also has a security camera wired to the Ethernet port.
Did three months with 3x tenda mesh but regular intermittent problems where one unit was dropping off. Returned and got a last gen Orbi net gear one. V pleased so far with coverage and stability.
I’ve got a TP Link one with one node, it’s average, struggles to reach from the front of the house to the back - all on the same floor - even though the square footage quoted is significantly bigger. Just end up using the power line most of the time (Virgin 350 net).
Thanks all and apologies I know it comes up a lot! I did do the Google search thing but all the threads were pretty old.
There is a lot of price difference between the various options. What are the more expensive ones getting you?
I quite like the look of the Google one, seeing as most of our media is via Chromecast etc. But it's a lot more spendy and the requirement really is WiFi reliability rather than any more smart home stuff.
The really expensive ones will have a really fast, dedicated back haul channel between the nodes for better hand-off between them.
I just did a test with my Google nest. 3 bed 1970s semi with a garage and utility room extension on side. Furthest point from Virgin superhub 3 is in utility room. With just Virgin hub, I couldn't get much of a signal in utility. With nest and no access point, 30mb/s. With 1 access point, 50mb/s. That's 200mb Virgin BB.
Edit, must be more than 200mb as I'm 215 next to router
I quite like the look of the Google one, seeing as most of our media is via Chromecast etc. But it’s a lot more spendy and the requirement really is WiFi reliability rather than any more smart home stuff.
I really can recommend it though - it's pretty much idiot-proof to set up, and you get another one or two Google Home speakers for the price. If you're already selling your soul to Google it's worth it.
Is it better/worse than other mesh systems? No idea. But I can tell you I've got two teenage daughters and a netflix-addicted wife, and it's been faultless. So much better than before when dropouts were a daily problem.
Cougar what’s the issue with the Tenda Nova MW12?
Sorry, I'll reply to this when I get chance. It's not a short post and I'm having a bit of a day.
Google mesh all day. 2x WFH here, constant video calls, plus netflex, Ps4 etc etc. Extended to cabin at the bottom of the garden via a hard cable and another dot at the end. Sets itself up, and the app where you can prioritise devices and check who's signed in is useful. We did initially switch off the sky box wifi signal as mentioned above, but after a recent powercut/reset its back on and both work alongside each other fine, just tell your devices to use the mesh signal.
Also I can walk between dots and it doesn't drop video calls/signal
Netgear Orbi 6 AX mesh here, I've won the ever escalating Wi-Fi race in my neighbourhood for a while 🙂
I'm another one with the Orbi system (a RBR50 and RBS50). The RBR50 is the router which I plug into my VM SH3 and the RBS50 is the satellite. Theses Orbi units have a single network around the house, regardless of which version of the standards you are using and will switch automatically if you move. They have a dedicated channel between them (the backhaul) which transmits the data between the two nodes.
Cougar what’s the issue with the Tenda Nova MW12?
Right.
First of all, I had murders setting them up with the Virgin 'Super' Hub 3. This wasn't the fault of the Tenda units but rather because I think on this particular issue the Internet is wrong about the SH3. When you put it into modem mode it disables everything on the hub bar the WAN port and a single Ethernet port. Forums will tell you variously that it's port one or the bottom port (which is port 4) and that you've got to go through some arcane ritual of rebooting various devices in specific orders to get it all to pick up. But after swearing at it for two days straight I don't believe this is actually what's happening. Rather, it'll enable whichever port it happens to see a device on first. So, pro tip, unplug the VM TV box (and any other Ethernet connections) before you start.
I have three MW12 units which AFAIK is the only package they sell. The first is plugged into the SH3 box at one corner of the house, the second in the kitchen at the foot of the stairs ~4m away, and the third on the landing upstairs maybe 5m away from the second (and not all that much farther from the first).
The first issue I hit was that devices would stick resolutely to whichever node they first saw. Fine for the Xbox, rubbish for the mobile phone in your pocket. Turns out there's a 'fast roaming' setting which fixes this to an extent but (why?) it's disabled by default. Even then the connectivity seems arbitrary. Like, right now I can see my Xbox is connected to the node on the landing when it's sat less than two feet from the primary node.
But the main problem is that they're simply flaky and unreliable. I can be sat at a computer and all of a sudden the Wi-Fi logo switches to the 'connected, no Internet' globe icon. Switching off the Wi-Fi on the device and then immediately switching it back on fixes it, so it's not a VM issue. Somewhat bizarrely it did it whilst I was on a Teams conference call last week, I lost all Internet connectivity but the Teams call didn't even blip.
Probably more symptoms of essentially the same problem: the TV at the back of the house (5m-ish from the kitchen node) occasionally won't connect to the network and has to have the Wi-Fi password re-entered; I tried to print yesterday and it didn't work, checked the printer and it showed "not connected" despite it being it's less than 4m away with line-of-sight to the Landing node, a reboot of the printer fixed that; signal strength ('bars' if you like) on laptops and mobile devices regularly fall below full strength; several times the config app has complained that it 'can't connect to the Nova' and all the devices show up red even with the phone right next to one of them, I only fixed that by restarting the primary node; and so on and so forth. The house has thick walls in places but even so this shouldn't be a big ask for what is supposedly a flagship product. [EDIT: they claim coverage of 6,000 square feet, that's over three times what I have here.]
Then there's the app functionality. DHCP settings are limited to setting the third octet in a 192.168.x.0/24 subnet. That's it. And by "that's it" I mean that's absolutely it. This is problematic because if the printer changes IP address I've to delete and re-add it on every device in the building. I can't reserve an IP address in the scope; I can't decrease the scope to say 100-254 so that I can then assign a static address out of scope but within the subnet; and bugger me with a chainsaw, I can't even install my own DCHP server on a Pi or something because there's no option for "off". The only way around this that I can see is to put the Tenda into Bridge mode, the SH3 back into Router mode and let the hub do the DCHPing. Which reintroduces its own Wi-Fi broadcasting to add to the general noise and in any case isn't why I spent two hundred quid on what I thought was a high-end product.
Oh, and it claims to have QoS. Great yes? Er... no. QoS is either on or off, claims to "prioritise game and web traffic" - ie, entirely the opposite of what you want QoS to do - and in any case seems to do the square root of $%^& all in any case.
When it works it's rapid, I'm getting 150Mbps at the arse end of the network. But when it doesn't it's shit and that's far too often. And the only support I can find (which to be fair I haven't tried yet so could be world class) is a tenda.cn email address.
Forums will tell you variously that it’s port one or the bottom port (which is port 4) and that you’ve got to go through an arcane ritual of rebooting in specific orders to get it all to pick up. After swearing at it for two days straight I don’t think this is what’s happening. Rather, it’ll enable whichever port it happens to see a device on first.
Which is what you were told. 😉
Not by anywhere other than on here.
Not by anywhere other than on here.
Where else matters? 🙂
Well, yes, there is that. I just could've done with that conversation having occurred before I started setting it all up.
Thanks Cougar, I think I might save up a bit more for the Orbi system. Having said that the weak spot in the house seems to be fine for my kids chromebooks so its dropped down the priority list.
I'm also toying with the Virgin SH4 and Giga package as it'll only be a £6 a month cost increase in costs and should up the wifi speeds as a base unit. Someone please correct me if I'm talking pish 🙂
SH4 has mixed reviews, have a look on Virgin's forum.
Netgear are launching a cheaper and smaller orbi system tomorrow at the Consumer Electronics Show.
Should be fine for all internet connections up to 1Gbps ish.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08FT9BLQX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_yZ1-Fb1W8G5S0
To be fair the Virgin website has put me off an upgrade just by being so bloody awful. I login and can't see a way to upgrade, it punts me out as a new customer every time I loom at the broadband options. I think they are trying to tell me something!
Thanks for all the responses. Been doing lots of research this afternoon and have pulled the trigger on a pair of Asus CT8s.
Backhaul 5Ghz channel, lots of features to play with (parental controls, VPN host, dynamic DNS etc). Ethernet and usb which I might make use of. Gets good reviews. Reasonably priced for the features. Only thing missing is wifi6 but don't have any of those devices yet and whenever we do can expand with another wifi6 node if we really need the performance.
Thought long and hard about the Google as we are bought into their devices otherwise. However administrative features and ports are very much lacking vs the Asus. Also if don't need any speakers and even if I did I wouldn't put them in the Same place as a node!
"Looking forward" to doing the network migration when it turns up on Tuesday 🙄. Let's hope it's not as frustrating as cougar's tenda!
BT Whole Home Wifi for me. Connected to the standard Plusnet router, turned off the routers wifi and get great wifi throughout the house. Had loads of no-spots before so used standard wifi extenders, but these all have to have their own network name which was a pain as I moved around the house. 3 B discs share the name throughout, my wife and I both work form home and 2 kids schooling from home all day, with a 14-18MB/s connection, all works great.
Not had to reset them yet either.
Bought the BT discs from Ebay second-hand for about £120 iirc
The only way around this that I can see is to put the Tenda into Bridge mode, the SH3 back into Router mode and let the hub do the DCHPing. Which reintroduces its own Wi-Fi broadcasting to add to the general noise and in any case isn’t why I spent two hundred quid on what I thought was a high-end product.
Can you not do this but turn off the wifi on the SH3? So mesh system in bridge, original router handling routing/DCHPing but with it's wifi turned off? That's analogous to what I do with my non-Virgin set up. I know Virgin is horrible, but I would have thought just being able to disable wifi was a pretty fundamental feature.
Can you not do this but turn off the wifi on the SH3?
Yup this is what I do at the minute.
i'm not very IT savvy and have Virgin. After extending our house the wifi wouldnt reach everywhere. I got three of these :-
Absolute doddle to set up and work a treat.
Can you not do this but turn off the wifi on the SH3?
Not directly but I think you can disable the two frequency bands independently.
It's a pity that new Orbi doesn't have a dedicated backhaul, bit pricey without IMO.
I’ve got that Deco system that Lowry has, and it’s both a doddle to set up and has been faultless
Which Deco system is that? Looks promising.
Any comments on Netgear? Always used their kit commercially.
Moving on...
Normally anything with BT on it would have me running but these seem to get good reviews and are reasonably priced.
Anyone have any experience?
Virgin have just announced they are partnering with Plume for some kind of new mesh offering. I have found my Plume kit to be spot on so might be worth looking at...
+1 the Deco discs. Great kit, great wifi performance and the app is easy to use and monitor kid's online with timings and whatnot.
Plus if you need to plug in a streamer (e.g. Bluesound player) then you can plug it directly into the Deco disc using an ethernet cable, so the player is plugged straight into the wifi. That made a big difference to the quality/reliability of my streamer.
@Coyote I just got those, it was easy to set up and I now have full WiFi signal round the whole house and to the end of my garden which is significantly more than what I had with a old fashioned WiFi extender. For someone who isn't super into their tech it was simple.
M5 here too. I got three. I also bought some brackets off ebay to fix them to the wall.
Same as the others, M5 I got 3, I think it probably took longer to unbox them than it did to actually set them up and running.
At the moment my setup is quite basic - I have plusnet broadband running at about 11mb download, with the router in the attic workroom (that's where the primary socket is, as the prevous ownwer of the house had a home office up there). We have a TP-Link TL-WA850RE wifi extender in the hallway which most of our devices connect to (Ring doorbell, phones, tablet, chromebook etc). My PC is hardwired as there's a cat5 network
Mostly this is ok but not brilliant. I get anywehere from 6mb down to absolute zero through the wifi extender, but since we don't du mich nmore than browsing it's mostly OK. We don't stream a lot of TV and when we do the NowTV box is hardwired
If I were to go to mesh system, I'm not sure I can justify spending several hundred pounds. There are cheaper options though if anyone has feedback on them?
Mercusys Halo S12(3-Pack) for £55
any tips or pointers appreciated. Note I may be "upgrading" to fibre broadband at some point when the contract expires, but even then I htink we're only going to see speeds around 30mb, not the 300mb of a virgin connections (though that is an option if they're not vastly expensive)
OK well I did my Network migration to the Asus CT8s yesterday evening.
Going well so far. Virgin Hub now in modem mode, CT8s handling routing / Wifi. Most of the devices connected a few more to do.
Only hiccup so far is with the shitty USB wifi network adapters on a couple of PCs (just what I had lying around unused). I'm back on ethernet powerline for one of them, but some new wifi cards ordered to sort that out (another £30). All other devices fine, at worst a 'good' signal everywhere in the house so I am sure it is the USB adapters in the PCs at fault.
Everything else running smoothly. No dropouts. I have not speed tested but anecdotally noticeably faster browsing on phones, no buffering of iPlayer last night, no problems with 4 of us WFH today including internet streaming, watching youtube as part of lessons etc.
Pretty clear the virgin hub in router mode was the weak link hardware just struggling to keep up with demand.
All the controls / stats available through the CT8s android app and web admin console are extensive and useful. I think it definitely makes it worth the extra spend vs. a cheap system which just extends wifi or gives limited controls.
Not had time to bugger about with them all yet. Oh what fun lies ahead throttling the kids' traffic 😀
Bumpty bump, anyone got any notes (good or bad) on my post above please?
Bumpty bump, anyone got any notes (good or bad) on my post above please?
Both the ones you link to are dual band. You really want to try and go tri-band so that the mesh has a dedicated channel for backhaul.
Other than that, I can't see just two nodes cutting it for you. To avoid horrendous complexity you want to ditch your current extender and turn off wifi on the router. You would always have one node at your router, therefore two only gives you the same coverage that you currently have, albeit likely to deal with device hand-off better as it is one integrated mesh rather than router + WAP.
Been talking to chap at work abut this and and looking at the same points you raise. I've Cat5 network throughout the house, so if I understandit it right I could plug nodes into the LAN for the backhaul I think?
As for atwo node pack not being enuggh he did say the same - but a 3 node TENDA pack is $60 at currys ebay outlet so not a huge extra expense/
Footprint of the house is about 1000 sq ft but we've 3 floors. I'd maybe stick a node on each floor like that, plugged in.
OK, yeah, if you have wired, then that's a better solution for the backhaul. I would double check that those support a wired backhaul though as I am not sure that is a given.
Three nodes would probably be fine. They say if you are not using wired backhaul then too many nodes can be a bad thing as they can fight over available bandwidth, but with wired backhaul I think the more the merrier.
I've found wifi generally seems to propagate much better through floors/ceilings than walls, so spreading horizontally along the house rather that vertically through the house worked better for me. My house is quite long though - but also 3 floors if you count the cellar. Something you really just want to experiment with.
Do you guys all have massive houses or something? A single standard BT router covers my whole 4 bedroom house with no problem.
The house has ethernet wired into all the rooms, but I don't use it as wifi is fine everywhere (inc streaming 4K etc).
Wondering what I'm missing 🤔
Two-foot thick walls, for a start.
you don't need a separate backhaul channel for web browsing. With 11mpps broadband you won't come even close to maxing out the slowest, single channel mesh. I wouldn't get one of those (as dual band improves availability), but the sort of thing you have suggested is fine.
I'd probably stretch to the bt mini disks, as the brand & support is probably worth the extra £20..
https://shop.bt.com/products/bt-mini-whole-home-wi-fi---three-discs-096450-F7C0.html
Two-foot thick walls, for a start.
I suppose that would do it 😄