[Closed] Merino - hype or fact - discuss

There is a lot of myth about the material. It isn't really that good for high energy "sweaty" activities. It stays slightly warmer than normal wool when wet, that has been misinterpreted as being good when wet, which it isn't.

I don't think they're complete hype, but not suitable for all uses.

I have a few sets and find them really nice to wear, they don't smell and keep me warm. However, for high energy activities or stinking wet days I find them damp and take ages to dry. For example, I wouldn't dream of wearing one for a bothy / bivi ride where I'd be in the same top for ages.

So polyester base layers for wet / high activity, merino for pleasant days in the hill for me.

The nice soft handle of a good quality merino layer makes them pleasant to wear. But they do get sweaty and don't dry as quickly as synthetic base layers.

For not to strenuous stuff on colder days they are good.

A better solution are base layers with a two layer design like HH Ice base layers. They got merino next to your skin for comfort and warmth and synthetic layer to help them wick moisture. But again these only work on colder days

[quote=tomd ]I don't think they're complete hype, but not suitable for all uses.
I have a few sets and find them really nice to wear, they don't smell and keep me warm. However, for high energy activities or stinking wet days I find them damp and take ages to dry. For example, I wouldn't dream of wearing one for a bothy / bivi ride where I'd be in the same top for ages.
So polyester base layers for wet / high activity, merino for pleasant days in the hill for me.
All of the above.

I find mine gets sweaty too. The difference though is that I don't find I get cold when it's wet so I really like it for a base layer and it's great for commuting (for no smell properties). I wouldn't use it for anything other than a base layer though.

I love merino stuff. I wouldn't agree that it's great when wet. it holds far too much water for that to be even remotely true. It's certainly better than cotton for that matter but synthetics are the best for warmth-moisture content.

Its horrendously expensive for the good stuff (Icebreaker for example) and doesn't last half as long as synthetic materials.

thanks my take.

Helly Hansen in my opinion is the best base layer by a very long way. Nothing comes close IMO. I have used them for over 30 yrs as a competitive runner and although over the years I have tried other base layers I always go back to HH.
The whole keeping dry during high activity is a myth. There are no products (eVent and Gore Tex included) that allow you to keep dry, they are all boil in the bag. Some less than others. A HH next to your skin is the best option though.
The trick is not stopping!

Will save it for my chosen winter sport - sledging

I have icebreaker and howies merino - nice and snug for low intensity activity but have given up on them when on the bike. Craft synthetic, plus a couple of the Helly Warm ones now. Better performance for less money !

It's all I wear on the bikes. Does stay warm when damp. Doesn't freeze you when it's damp, but as a result doesn't wick that well. I sweat anyway so is rather be a bit damp but not chilled. Feels nice on your skin.
I've worn mine in minus 10 and plus 40. Let it air and it doesn't smell like synthetics. Good for multidays or commuting if you don't wash it everyday.

The main issue with synthetics is that they allow the bacteria that live on the sweat to colonise the fabric. That is a polite way of saying that for sweaty smelly bods (like me) that end as expensive very smelly synthetics that smell as soon as you put them on even thought hey have been washed, rewashed then washed again. They are amazing at wicking away and drying quick, but that is not much good if they leave you alone in a pongy garment. Before you say it these are the items that get Bio washed at the correct temperature. They just end up honking. Merino does not suffer from this in the long term, or short term for that matter.

You have to have horses for courses, but I have ended up with merino base layers, some wool medium weight and fleece/synthetic heavier weight stuff.

If you want something that's a nice balance between merino-type next to skin comfort and resistance to odour and synthetic wicking and drying qualities, Rab's MeCo fabric, which is a mix of merino wool and Cocona is pretty good but a little expensive.

Also the Brynje of Norway polypropylene mesh stuff - same fabric as Helly use basically - is oddly brilliant. Looks like a string vest, works really well under other layers.

Am I the only one who finds it incredibly prickly? I have a nice merino mix jersey I can only look at before I opt for the synthetic one.

Sportwool is awesome, I've not been overly impressed with straight merino, though.

My 15 year old Ice Breaker is a completely different fabric to current Ice Breakers. It's considerably lighter so didn't feel damp. The latest one is a lot thicker despite being the same model and found that as I overheat it just became damp.

Swear by my Berghaus Argentum/North Face outdoor base layers.

It's good for socks.

Everything else is synthetics.

I'm generally pretty happy with my merino stuff and would quickly replace them when they wear out. But there are a couple of caveats to do with when they're likely to get properly wet rather than a bit damp. If that happens then I'd rather be wearing a synthetic. So IME they don't work so well for a few hours road riding under a shell or really long days out hillwalking in the pissing rain.
At the moment though merino is my default base layer material. I have a couple of merino/nylon (?) mix ones from Ground Effect which I like a lot as well as a pure merino Howies one.

As has been said its good for long winter activities at a medium too low intensity, but brilliant for socks. I've got a few Icebreaker tops from about 10 years ago which have worn well.

Racing and high intensity work I'll reach for the Craft cool mesh range.

I've got some merino and some synthetic base layers. Can't say one type is better than the other. They both have their uses. One thing you can count on is that the merino won't get too whiffy to wear after a few rides... in fact it doesn't smell at all.

Socks only for me now, had an icebreaker top, didn't think it was better at anything than my cheap synthetics (except for not stinking after a day's ride- but then I could buy about 10 of the thermals I wear now for the same price). Lost it a while back, haven't missed it.

Merino rules.

Half price merino on Sportpursuit now.
Unfortunately, the brand name is "Rewoolution" (hoho), but looks good quality NZ product.
(Email me for sign-on code 😉 )

This threads about a day late, my on-one base layers just arrived, after years of only using synthetic base layers!

We'll see, my intention is to wear it under a waterproof while commuting as I found short sleved tops gave me cold arms where the wet waterproof clung to them and synthetics didn't seem to help much in that situation, the merino looks thicker/insulating and retaining that insulation when damp would be the important bit. If it doesn't work I'll take it as my 'off the bike' layer when bikepacking.

I do like my syntetic baselayers though, bought quite a few Nike "Pro Combat" baselayers as they really are skin tight (the body section of the medium is about 20" circumfance when not worn) so wick perfectlty, provide some warmth and prevent 'roadie nipple'!

Merino is fantastic for skiing, not so great for mtb except maybe winter use. Even the thinnest base layers run very warm which is the problem for high activity sports.

I find merino itchy too. I stick to synthetic for anything vaguely sporty

Merino is fantastic for skiing, not so great for mtb except maybe winter use. Even the thinnest base layers run very warm which is the problem for high activity sports.

I think it's personal, I much prefer my warmer baslayers and thinner windstopping fabrics on top in the winter. Get the layering right and you stay hot but dry so you don't cool down when stopped (get it wrong and you're a hot soggy mess and freeze when the group stops).

Whats that magical 'armour' from Lord or the Rings?

Mithril?

In sub zero winter and I'm wearing my icebreaker merino's I call them my mithril.

I find merino itchy too. I stick to synthetic for anything vaguely sporty

Only poor quality, cheap merino is itchy. I hazzard that scratchy merino isn't actually pure/properly made. My missus works in textiles/garments and its not unknown for factories to not put in what the label says.. their Lab Technologists catch a few.

I bought a merino from Aldi last week for her- really scratchy. Straight back. She tried on one of my merino's- she asked if it was silk.

Thats the difference.

It's good for socks.

Everything else is synthetics.

This! I live in Woolie Boolies on and off the bike in winter, they're fantastic. I got a merino base layer a couple of years ago (admittedly not an expensive one) and it just gets damp and cold, horrible. I've got about 5 different types of synthetic one which are all far better.

i'm moving away from merino, as is mrs TLR.

we find it saturates in cold high intensity [skiing / cycling] activity and find that the synthetic fibred clothing / base layers are much warmer once stopped [for lunch, etc].

merino is great - it never smells too bad, my icebreaker kit has washed briliantly, but as a wicking base layer for hi intensity sports, not so clever.

i have just bought a merino mixed synthetic base layer fae Costco which looks pretty good and was exceptionally cheap. hopefully, it will work well.

edit : icebreaker kit we have is ranged fae 200 / 260 / 320

Merino socks are brilliant, I like them a lot of winter riding.
I also have a pair of the Planet-X Merino arm warmers which I like a lot as well, they're very warm and feel nice. But I will only use them on the dry, when it's wet as well a Roubaix type Lycra is much warmer and holds less water.
Base layers I've just never "got", I've used them and found them cold and sweaty. I now just tend to use cheap Decathlon football base layers, they don't smell too bad too quickly and when they do they're cheap to replace.

In that really cold winter a couple of years back I was getting away with one 200 weight Icebreaker and a Gore-tex Paclite jacket - it was around minus 5, sometimes colder with wind. Felt nice and snug, but the merino did get sweaty on the back, and felt cold if I stopped to eat some grub. Recreational mountain biking's an almost unique sport when it comes to energy output/generating heat and sweat/hanging around in the cold - I don't think there is a perfect fabric if you're going to ride in all weathers, doing steep lung-busting climbs, and stopping to enjoy the view or have a snack. Off-piste snowboarding/skiing is the only near equivalent I can think of, and even then it's easier to pace yourself to stop the sweating.

Merino tends to take a bit more looking after, my wife and I have so many merino socks & tops between us that it actually worth doing separate wool washes with the Nikwax wool wash stuff that does seem to noticeably help their wicking properties and (more importantly) smells lovely.

My standard dead of winter attire is a Pear Izumi soft shell over a howies NBL, never found a synthetic layer that feels as good after a few hours, Craft and Under armour come close but both seem to loose all thermal properties the minute you stop moving. for short sharp rides yes but not if you're going to be out all day.

100% agree on the sock thing as well, Merino all the way for all except the height of summer. Actually looking forward to some proper baltic weather so I can crack out the Wooly Boolies

with damp icebreaker, the cold clammy saturated sensation on the chairlift is a nightmare.

as is sitting in a cold cafe after a days mtb'ing in cold damp merino.

Don't wear standard cycling waterproofs. IMO if its raining its too warm for a wool-based top anyway. Plus I've found most waterproof cycling jackets are shit.

Also- I tend to wear merino's when the temperature drops. It doesn't rain when it gets so cold. Otherwise I don't need merino.

I never wear a waterproof, just a softshell, and still find the merino sweaty and shit. There's every chance it's because it's a cheap one, but as I've got similarly priced synthetic ones that are vastly superior in use, plus threads like this, I'm disinclined to try an expensive one to find out!

My coldest winter night rides used to be howies NBL or icebreaker under a Stealth, but then I discovered Helly Warm, the part merino synthetic one. For me warmer and dryer so better. Nowadays only use merino base layers on relaxed rides with the kids where I won't sweat too much. Wool socks I love, current defrosters and a single pair of decent wool hiking socks is good for minus 10 night rides.

Merino - the best thing that's happened to mountain huts. No longer have to put up with the godforsaken stench of worn polyester when ski touring.

I've never tried a cheap one so can't compare but my Icebreaker 200 feels like silk and has been used to death over the past 10yrs. I've also got a heavier weight one that I use on its own for really cold weather (or combine the two). I've found using these I can wear a thin pair of M&S cotton socks all winter as my core is good.

My understanding has always been that merino doesn't wick as well as synthetic, but does keep you warmer. Consequently it's not as good as synthetic next to the skin on high-exertion activities in colder weather when you need moisture transported away quickly (such as biking), especially if you're stopping a lot and subject to windchill as your body temp drops (and consequently have slow-drying, damp wool sitting against your skin).

However, as a mid-layer I think it's great for that reason - it holds heat when damp, breaths well and wicks.

100% agree on the sock thing as well, Merino all the way for all except the height of summer.

+1. Always wear merino socks through the winter - warm when wet.

On a sidenote, the On-One wool/Coolmax tops are my go-to tops unless it's very warm or I'm doing an exercise similar to the above. I find the merino warm and fine as a base in cooler weather, while the coolmax on the back wicks well and doesn't chill while moving.

There's a merino t-shirt in a drawer somewhere, too many better tops to wear to use it. Even a cotton T-shirt is better for uphill skiing, it soaks up all the sweat so when you take it off at the top everything over it is bone dry and keeps you warm on the way down.

Merino for everything. I can only assume other peoples bodies react differently as too me the advantages are almost universal. You do need the good stuff though and a very thin one for summer. Embers and Howies are good.

I think the wicking is good, but slower than synthetic. You'll also notice the water moves away from the skin and then sticks to the outside a bit like you've been in thick mist - then it blows away... a bit like the stink.

The aldi one's are terrible and itchy and don't work

I've had good experience with a long sleeve ice breaker merino and a synthetic Cycling top (short sleeve) to wick the sweat away. Non pongy and seems to keep me dry-ish and warm.

I'm still not sure if it's just psychological though. Anyone else got experience with that combo can comment?

Even a cotton T-shirt is better

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense - cotton is a liability for any amount of activity.

You ain't gonna beat a good old fashioned string vest as your base layer.

Merino's good but for me it has its limitations. Worst one is when it does get wet it stays wet longer than a synthetic. Different qualities as well - coarse slightly itchy layers and fine-but-fragile layers.

ime the odour argument against synthetics is a non-starter - simply wash them after every use.

rocketman - Member

ime the odour argument against synthetics is a non-starter - simply wash them after every use.

1) this is not always practical - do i need to wash my commuting kit every day? (my commute is only about 12k, and in winter i'm pretty cold for most of it)

2) i've had synthetic layers that smell awful as they come out of the washing machine

As you didn't quote me in full, pjbarton, I will. Don't diss it till you've tried it. If I use a merino and keep it on it's clammy and wet, if I take it off the layers over have got wet so aren't as warm as if you've removed the cotton sponge. Bear in mind that an hour flat out uphill gains you over 1000m with a temperature drop of about 7°C and wind chill increasing a lot.

Even a cotton T-shirt is better for uphill skiing, it soaks up all the sweat so when you take it off at the top everything over it is bone dry and keeps you warm on the way down.

Intersting approach to layering yo've got there [b]Edukator[/b] and one I haven't seen yet in the back country, though I've see plenty of adding/removing mid layers. Not sure I fancy the idea of stripping to the flesh at the top of a 1000m vertical skin to take of a base layer.

ime the odour argument against synthetics is a non-starter - simply wash them after every use.

Also as awhiles says it's annoying/wasteful to wash commuting kit every day.

Don't like it as a base layer, for socks it's ace and works well as a mid layer on cold days.

As has already been said, gets clammy and then fells cold. Plus I find it itchy even if others say it's not.

Full quote or not, no-one wants... "it soaks up all the sweat"

Unless you've invented the spacesuits from Dune that is.

Wick is the trick

I like my icebreaker merino base layer, especially for cold winter night rides. Very cosy!

For me it's synthetic base layer next to the skin with merino on top for cold conditions. Thus avoiding the clamminess in the pub after.

Maybe I have a sensitive nose: I've been in fell races where I've nearly gagged near the start from plastic top stink runners. I got given a RAB synthetic top which is super light and feels lovely, but it makes me stink in minutes so it stays in the drawer.

Wear it in the winter, I've got Craft and HH base layers and they just aren't comfortable when wet, which Merino manages to remain and you don't get that horrible cold shirt feel when a blast of air hits damp merino.

It's the socks that really win though, regularly just barge through cold fords with Wool socks on knowing that within a couple of minutes the warmth in my feet will have heated up the wet sock, something that just doesn't happen with other fabrics.

I'm super sweaty and I find merino stuff not good at all like you said.. holds it in - stays wet for ages. And the 100% stuff is its not very durable at all.

But I do wear lots of icebreaker because the cut makes my biceps look bigger than they really are.

Love it in socks. Not impressed for base/mid layers, gets way too sodden with sweat and then colder than cheaper synthetics.

The solution to the smelly Hellies is occasionally splashing some white vinegar on the worst areas and chucking some in the washing machine too. Kills all the bacteria!

You ain't gonna beat a good old fashioned string vest as your base layer.

I've got a Castelli Coolmax one. In all seriousness, in very warm or very cold conditions it's bl00dy brilliant at shifting moisture away from the skin.

Some cheap Under armour base layers on amazon today (£7.70)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Under-Armour-Sonic-Compression-T-Shirt/dp/B00884KX52?

i've had synthetic layers that smell awful as they come out of the washing machine

Ditto, most of the synthetics I've had have to go after a year or two because the smell just gets too bad, even when just washed in proper baselayer anti-stink stuff. In fairness have a Pearl Izumi Minerale one now which seems to be holding up well, time will tell.

One of my howies NBL's is 7 years old and apart from a few holes from brambles it's still comfy, warm and relatively benign on the nostrils.

SportPursuit have SuperNatural merino back on sale. The 140gsm long sleeve tops are lovely. (£30)