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Obviously a large leave vote will be taken as a stop brexit right now message by the labour big wigs.
Another one who's voted something other than Labour for the first time as I just couldn't vote for a pro-Brexit party
Green as the tactical voting said that was the best pro-remain option in the North West
Oob, we don't have to agree with everything they say, just more of theirs than the next.
As it goes most of that I do agree with and, just because some of it as you rightly point out is true of most member states doesn't make it any less true of the EU.
Re the multinational vs small business you don't have to have one at the expense of the other, the EU is actually making some ground on holding the large multi nationals to account where a lot of nations lack either the will or weight to do so. On the other hand I can't help but look at the wholesale relocation of (eg steel) industry from one end of the EU to the other in pursuit of greater profit as specifically facilitated by policies on free movement of goods.
Your friend moving low value items might be a poster boy for that same policy but equally 50 years ago the equivalent items would have been produced locally, moved locally and supported several small businesses over a wide area. There are arguments for both sides and dismissing either because of a limited number of examples is pretty foolish.
Well we will not hear any results until late Sunday evening.
So rejoice in the fact that you got off your arses and voted.
👍💃
Binners - Nice choice. If labour don't get the message after this then they really are dying. I expect a low % on a low turnout.
I made the same sort of tactical choice
Your friend moving low value items might be a poster boy for that same policy but equally 50 years ago the equivalent items have been produced locally, moved locally and supported several small businesses over a wide area. There are arguments for both sides and dismissing either because of a limited number of examples is pretty foolish.
You can't blame the EU for that, that's just how the global economy works. I'm all for doing thing locally but in the UK we have a load of people, not enough agriculture to feed ourselves and few natural resources. Clearly it would be better if that wasn't the case but it is and our options are to participate in Global trade (and the EU is a big part of that) or literally starve. And that's not the EU's fault, that's just how it is.
On the other hand I can’t help but look at the wholesale relocation of (eg steel) industry from one end of the EU to the other in pursuit of greater profit as specifically facilitated by policies on free movement of goods.
Free movement of capital and labour so the most efficient places get the work is a cornerstone of the EU. You're making out it's a disadvantage it's the main advantage. Protecting business with Tariffs/restrictions on movement has never worked long term. You can't blame the EU for accepting economic reality.
Hoping for a surge of youth voting, might be in vain but you never know. Polls didn't look very hopeful though.
I voted Green as best chance of fending of Leaver parties, but was worried that of all the people i saw going into the Polling Station i was the youngest at 44 by about 20 years!
A tough election- deciding between UKIP and the Brexit party was never going to be easy.
I voted Green as best chance
to show I'm a committed leaver whilst making all my friends think I'm coolof fending of Leaver parties
“has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.”
“the excessive influence of the Commission and its associated bodies compared to the Council and Parliament is both undemocratic and unaccountable.”
“The present structure of EU committees gives too much power to particular interests at the expense of citizens of member countries generally.”.
“The Green Party rejects many existing EU policies and likewise opposes inclusion of them in a constitution or constitutional treaty.”
“In our Green vision for Europe we seek to replace the unsustainable economics of free trade and unrestricted growth with the ecological alternative of local self reliance and resource conservation”
https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/eu.html
Hoping for a surge of youth voting
Lowering the voting age to 14 and having a cut-off age to filter out all the ageing gammons who will be dead anyway will deliver the Socialist Utopia Union of Europe comrades. To the barricades!
You’re making out it’s a disadvantage it’s the main advantage
You're making out it's all good or all bad.
I did..
Outofbreath - i like that the Green Party thinks the EU is far from perfect, but what i like more is the fact that they realise you have to have your feet under the table to be in the negotiations, not pissing outside the back door moaning that you have no say and you're being treated unfairly....
You’re making out it’s all good or all bad.
No, I'm saying it's fundamentally good but could be tweaked. The green voters are saying it's it's fundamentally bad - undemocratic & it's allows easy movement of stuff across a wide area. Tweaks can't fix the "problems" the Green voters have, they're central to the whole idea of a large free trade area with free movement of capital and people.
Outofbreath – i like that the Green Party thinks the EU is far from perfect
Yes, that's clear. I just think you're wrong, the EU is actually pretty good.
https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/eu.html/blockquote >Yep - agree with all of that. The EU stinks in a number of important ways. If we could run our own shop, it would be good to do so, but clearly we can't, so being an EU member is a necessary evil.
binners, I thought LibDem was the tactical vote of choice for the NW?
posted this in the EU Ref thread but here seems more appropriate...
Well I voted last night, as did my Wife, got into work this morning and casually asked my colleagues if they had voted, depressing replies:
person 1 – early 30s: “nah, they’re all a bunch of ‘see you next tuesdays’ so what’s the point
person 2 – late 50s: “no, we’re leaving so no point” (he voted leave ‘to shake things up’ in the ref)
person 3 – mid 30s: “yes of course!” (didn’t say which way but I think he’ll have gone Lib Dem)
person 4 – mid 30s: “nope, euros so no point”
person 5 – early 30s: “yup, for Farage!” (I think he meant he voted for the Brexit party, not Farage directly, but I’m not sure he knows the difference)
So from my tiny sample of youngish to middle-aged IT guys from Devon, voter apathy wins above everything else 🙁
I am loving how everyone is avoiding engaging with the troll on this thread.
Another Green vote here
our polling station was busy and the ballot box stuffed by 7pm. They were using a fish slice to shove the ballots in.
In the NE it was a hard choice who to vote for. For the first time ever I made up my mind in the booth. The risk was splitting the vote and letting Farage's mob win all three seats.
Probably me being dopey, but if the UK can't announce results until Sunday/Monday, why do there seem to be reports of the Holland results (who also voted yesterday)?
I haven't seen any percentages on voter turnout (been out on the bike lol), but from a friend who always helps at these things the % turnout in his area was up from an abysmal 27% to an equally abysmal 29%.
Apathy seems to be the real winner again 🙁
if the UK can’t announce results until Sunday/Monday, why do there seem to be reports of the Holland results
The government is having difficulties finding someone in office who can count above 10 without moving their lips.
Probably me being dopey, but if the UK can’t announce results until Sunday/Monday, why do there seem to be reports of the Holland results (who also voted yesterday)?
Because the "populists" did less well than expected, so the EU are happy for this news to come out in the hope it discourages the populist vote across Europe. People don't want their vote to be wasted- the EU spreads the idea that populism isn't gaining traction, others will be disuaded from voting populist.
The government is having difficulties finding someone in office who can count above 10 without moving their lips.
I hear Dianne Abbot is free. She's already counted 150 million votes in her region.
The Dutch thing is based on exit polls not the actual ballot.
Exit polls are supposedly illegal because voting is continuing across the EU. Call me a troll, stick your fingers in your ears and go La la la, avoid engaging with the truth, that's your choice, but fact is the EU is a wrongun.
Ah, I see we've mastered irony. What's next on the list, charm?
Exit polls are supposedly illegal because voting is continuing across the EU.
Illegal under UK law, but how about Dutch law? Maybe, just maybe, there's nothing to see here after all.
...but how about Dutch law?
Bending the rules?
I didn't vote - I just don't really care one way or the other and have made my peace with that
I hear Dianne Abbot is free. She’s already counted 150 million votes in her region.
Or maybe we could get Philip Hammond on the job - he will get the right answer. Within 20 billion or so.
From what I read earlier, EU rules allow exit polls, UK rules do not.
"In Holland we used to have a big problem with illegal exit polls, but now we have legalized them: there is no problem!"
didn't bother - we are leaving.
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There can be only one point five million
What's the likely timeline after today's news? Seems like the elected MEPs will actually sit. The new Tory leader isn't going to be in post and have resolved Brexit by the end of July
The new Tory leader isn’t going to be in post and have resolved Brexit by the end of July
I doubt Brexit will have been resolved by July 2020. Bojo will find himself in exactly the same bind TM was in....
Remainer, work in manufacturing, got kids who I want to grow up in a tolerant society, pro NHS and not a fascist.
LD
I am Harry_the_Spider...
I was a Corbyn supporter and Labour member.
I was prepared to give him a chance.
I still think the last manifesto was superb.
How was he supposed to jump?
Pro Brexit and he alienates the wet, softy, Binneresque wing of the party who, let's face it, hated him anyway.
Pro remain and the working class demi-gammon turn to Funny Uncle Nigel.
Shame.
As a lefty remainer I have no one left to vote for.
I was looking forward to a quiet old age. Looks like I'll be back on the streets protesting against the Brown Shorts and getting funny looks from the neighbours.....
Well this was an election with no winners, other than apathy.
Less than 15% of the electorate felt the need to stroll down to polling stations and cast a vote for a remain in the EU party. Presumably the other 85% couldn't give a monkeys.
The Tories achieved their worse national election result in 185 years.
The Labour Party achieved their worse EU election result ever, although surprisingly only 1% less than they managed under Gordon Brown.
ChangeUK have seen their dreams of shaking up British politics shattered after receiving less than 3% of the vote.
UKIP which having now gone full-blown racist, misogynist, and islamophobic, a position that would have likely seen them top the polls in several EU countries, didn't do much better on just over 3% of the vote.
Yaxley-Lennon, who would probably have been seen as a national hero in Austria, Hungary, and Italy, managed a tad over 2%
Still, among all the disastrous election results there appears to be a couple of happy people.
Vince Cable because his party received 1 in 5 of the votes of the small minority that could be bothered to vote, quite an improvement for a party that only 2 years ago most people wouldn't touch with a bargepole.
And happy smiling Nigel Farage, because his party won an election for a parliament that he doesn't want to be a member of. Although the last time his party won the EU election all the UKIP MEPs resigned one by one, so that smile might not last. Still, this time he's starting with 5 more MEPs so he might have better luck.
For me the cause for celebration is how the UK bucks the European trend. Exactly 10 years ago in the EU elections the BNP in the UK received almost one million votes, 6.3% of the vote.
Weirdly enough, also 10 years ago, the National Front in France received exactly the same share of the vote - 6.3%
Yesterday the renamed NF in France won the EU election, whilst in the UK the BNP has disappeared from British politics - they can't even manage to win a ward council seat anywhere in the country.
That really is a cause for celebration. And no, before someone says it, the Brexit Party is not the equivalent of the BNP. The British people have firmly rejected fascism, bigotry, and islamophobia, as Thursday's results prove. In stark contrast with much of Europe.
Less than 15% of the electorate felt the need to stroll down to polling stations and cast a vote for a remain in the EU party. Presumably the other 85% couldn’t give a monkeys.
Can't help but wonder where all those people who don't want to be ruled by unelected bureaucrats were.
That really is a cause for celebration.
Except you're comparing chalk and cheese, Ernie. Have a look at current RN policy and compare it with BNP policy. Rien à voir.
And you're conveniently forgetting that Farrage (Brexit) who is every bit as extreme as Le Pen senior just scored more than Le Pen fille.
Care to link the Brexit party policy policy that convinces you it's not in fact worse than the BNP. Please, Ernie, link it and prove me wrong. It's so ****ing evil they daren't print it.
Edit, could you link your source for FN results, they got over 10% way back when in almost any election the fielded candiadates.
Having done a bit of fact checking you've done some serious cherry picking Ernie. My memory served me well, way back in 1984 Le Pen senior already scored 11%. It was when Marine came along and modified the policies and dialogue to attract voters from both extreme right and left where they join on the far side of the circle that the results jumped to their current levels of around 25% if you average Euro, local and national elections.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_national_(parti_fran%C3%A7ais)
That really is a cause for celebration. And no, before someone says it, the Brexit Party is not the equivalent of the BNP. The British people have firmly rejected fascism, bigotry, and islamophobia, as Thursday’s results prove. In stark contrast with much of Europe.
Was thinking the same but as Educator points out we don't actually know what the Brexit party stands for but can guess as Farage is leader. People voting for the Brexit party are making up their own minds of what is stands for and as many of them would have been UKIP that probably isn't much difference from the rest of the EU far right parties.
Was thinking the same but as Educator points out we don’t actually know what the Brexit party stands for but can guess as Farage is leader.
Simple. It boosts Farage egotistical personality while continuing to make him money.
you’ve done some serious cherry picking Ernie
LOL and you accuse me of "cherry picking"!
What's the point of linking to a French wikipedia page, was it in the hope that most people wouldn't be able to read it? Why don't you write your posts in French Edukator - if it's the lingua franca for STW?
Here is a link to an English wikipedia page :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rally_(France)#European_Parliament
You'll see :
2009 Jean-Marie Le Pen EURONAT 1,091,691 6.3%
6.3% is EXACTLY the same percentage as the BNP received in the UK in that election.
You might say there is no comparisons between the BNP and the French NF but there certainly is. Jean-Marie Le Pen is a convicted racist thug who has dismissed the mass murder of millions of Jews as a mere "detail of history".
Sure, since the NF have ditched Jean-Marie Le Penn they have tried to portray themselves as a more respectable racist bigoted islamophobic party, and that has undoubtedly won them more votes.
But here in the UK Yaxley-Lennon also tried to do exactly the same thing distancing himself from his thuggery past and links with the violent islamophobic EDL. However it got him nowhere - the British people saw straight through the racist bigot.
Of course the bar is placed differently in France, even the so-called moderates of the centre party are bigots. Only a couple of months ago government ministers, among others, successfully put pressure on Decathalon France to withdraw the sale of "sports hijabs", something which achieved nothing other than make Muslim girls less likely to participate in sport, or dress as they wish. But it did satisfy there bigotted hatred of Islam.
I can't imagine a similar situation ever occuring in Britian, even with a Tory government. The political climate in France, and much of Europe, makes the French NF seem not too extreme. But they are definitely extremist in the context of the UK.
In Italy, Austria, and Hungary, there are political parties IN GOVERNMENT that are willing to see desperate people fleeing wars, created by Europeans, drown at sea, it is both disgusting and frightening. It seems that Britian alone stands against the rising tide of fascism across Europe, once again.
Apologies for any spilling misstakes, spellcheck isn't working.
Here's a choice example of what is happening in Europe :
Can you imagine a leading British paper having that on their front page?
Comparing not quite the worst ever FN result when le Pen senior was largely discredited (and rightly for reasons you mention) with a good BNP result is most definitely cherry picking, Ernie.
As for the rest of your xenophobic, anti-French bollocks "bigotted hatred of Islam". You have a bigotted hatred of the French. I call hypocrit.
Britain if you remember started the war that resulted in the refugee crisis and then refused to take any refugees.
Edit: lest you forget:
Independant ewspaper headlines are one thing, killing over 100 000 in a religious crusade led by a head of state quite another. I don't judge the UK on Daily Mail headlines.
ernielynch
Can you imagine a leading British paper having that on their front page?
A quick check describes the publication in question as a low circulation right wing weekly. Why are you comparing this to a leading British paper?
MEP elections is now over. Bring on the GE!
In the meantime in the far east All American companies will soon (already started) be divesting out of China. The rest of the Western companies will follow in the near future.
The start of two world system begins ...
As for the rest of your xenophobic, anti-French bollocks “bigotted hatred of Islam”. You have a bigotted hatred of the French. I call hypocrit.
LOL! I'm a French born national! I even served in the French armed forces! (well I was conscripted actually) But none of that makes me blind to the rise of bigotry and islamophobia in France, why would it?
And btw get your facts right, it wasn't the "the worst ever FN result", that was 10 years earlier in 1999. Although it's totally irrelevant to the point I'm making. Which is that in 2009 both the BNP in Britain and the NF in France recieve 6.3% of the vote. Today the French NF won this week's election and the BNP can't even win a ward council seat - even though it only requires a handful of votes.
As for your previous comment "Care to link the Brexit party policy policy that convinces you it’s not in fact worse than the BNP" because I couldn't arsed, since you've got me to respond again........you must be the only person on here who doesn't know why Nigel Farage, and a few others, left UKIP and formed another party........"worse than the BNP" LOL!
The British people have passed their judgement on UKIP's metamorphosis into the new BNP, and it was very harsh indeed - 3% of the vote. Even in the recent local elections when Leavers didn't have the Brexit Party to vote for, UKIP lost 80% of their councillors.
The British people should be proud of having the most multicultural least racist country in Europe. The French should be ashamed, although to be fair there are worst countries in Europe.
A quick check describes the publication in question as a low circulation right wing weekly. Why are you comparing this to a leading British paper?
Because it's apparently sold in the Polish parliament, it's not a fringe paper sold on street corners.
Although its circulation figure are actually irrelevant, you wouldn't see 'how to spot a Jew' on the front page of even a low ciculation British paper, because quite simply they would be prosecuted. And quite right too. Only in Poland could that happen, and a few other countries.
But hey, I know my take on the situation doesn't chime with the narrative on here that British electorate are both incredibly stupid and racist, so you carrying on picking holes wherever you can.
I'm aware of why Farrage quit UKIP, for the same reason as Marine Le Pen fell out with and distanced herself from Le Pen senior. They both know anti-semites and anti-muslims can't win elections and are likely to get arrested. Populists need popular support. Once in power they do what the hell they want.
And yes, I regard Farrage as having more right wing policies than the the BNP. Check out BNP policy on health (totally socialist) and Farrage (insurance and privatisation).
Consider for an instant what Farrage wil do on getting a majority in the house. An instant Brexit - no more ECJ, the ability to revoke the laws he doesn't like and make new ones. Once in power he can stop playing nicely and do just what he wants.
Because it’s apparently sold in the Polish parliament, it’s not a fringe paper sold on street corners.
I dont disagree with the essence of your argument regarding racism in European countries, just trying to keep you honest with regards to how you use your sources.
The article you link seems to show politicians in Poland are horrified that this happened, so hopefully this is not a regular occurrence.
You are right the the headline would not appear here, however I have never visited the Polish Parliament, but would bet that the papers it sells will be no different to those on street corners there.
Its circulation is relevant in determining the extent of the problem of racism in Poland.
The British people should be proud of having the most multicultural least racist country in Europe.
That's a blatant lie if Metro is to be believed.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/20/racist-countries-europe-not-actually-bad-7646762/
... Farrage (insurance and privatisation).
Privatisation ... look at EU countries from the guardian newspaper as sample.
The creeping privatisation of EU health care ...
🤣
The British people should be proud of having the most multicultural least racist country in Europe.
That’s a blatant lie if Metro is to be believed.
Nah, other comparable multicultral countries in Europe such as Italy, Germany, France, Austria, etc, are more racist than the UK.
Don't believe everything you read in the Metro. The best gauge of how racist a country is how people vote - in the privacy of your own polling booth you can be as racist as you like.
Fascists and neo-nazis have been trying to get a foothold in British politics since the 1930s, they have never succeeded. They've had more success in other European countries. And today Britian is the least racist it's ever been. It's less racist than it was 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
There aren't too many things that Britian can still be proud of, tolerance is one of them.
The best gauge of how racist a country is how people vote
Brexit party, thirty something percent. Farrage
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/nigel-farage-s-vile-anti-immigration-poster-criticised-1.2690915 and to quote George Osbourne
Farrage is 1930s Germany according to George Osbourne and many others.
There aren’t too many things that Britian can still be proud of, tolerance is one of them.
You're just trolling now, Ernie.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/16/hate-crime-brexit-terrorist-attacks-england-wales
and compare those numbers with Holland taking into account population of course ( Holland is another multicultural society in which the multicultural model is being challenged so comparable).
You’re just trolling now, Ernie.
Isn't the correct response to ignore a troll?
Chewkw, yes. With you I'm selective, Ernie. On dirait que le service nationale t'as marqué à vie. Je parie qu'un parent n'était pas près à renoncer à la nationalité française pour t'éviter l'épreuve. Alors ?
On dirait que le service nationale t’as marqué à vie. Je parie qu’un parent n’était pas près à renoncer à la nationalité française pour t’éviter l’épreuve. Alors ?
In France it was military service, not national service - as in Britain where it could be completed working for a government department other than the military. You should know that, I take it that you didn't do yours?
Renouncing my French nationality was not an option as it was the only nationality that I had, and it still is. I am however for all intents and purposes British, and one day I will probably swallow my pride and swear allegiance to Elizabeth II and her successors, although I don't see why naturalized Brits can't be republicans. Although I am present in the same boat, so to speak, as some of the Windrush generation - like them I didn't know I was suppose to apply for permanent UK residency years ago. Not a problem whilst the UK remains in the EU. I am btw a strong leave supporter - I despise the EU.
Besides, although it was truly crap in so many ways I have absolutely no regrets about doing my military service. It didn't leave a negative mark as you suggest. I was happy to do my bit for the Glory of France, especially as it didn't involve killing anyone. Furthermore because I completed my military service I was afterwards prioritised into a French government training college, something which I am very grateful for and would never have had the opportunity to do in the UK.
Although I no longer consider myself French, ie, I wouldn't be able hold a conservation in French anymore, despite having reached the rank of corporal during my military service and going to college in France, as it's been decades since I've spoken it, I do still feel an emotional attachment to France, which is one of the reasons I get so pissed off with the rise of the far right and islamophobia. I've had relatives who fought against that crap.
I can't get my head round the thought that anyone who lives in a country that suffered under nazi occuption, and all its horrors, can vote for the far right. And not just France, Greece, Italy, etc. And Poland? Poland lost 20% of its population under nazi occupation, 6 million, 6 ****ing million, more than half of them Jews. And today in Poland they have newspaper articles such as "how to spot a Jew"? FFS
And there was me hoping you'd pick me up on a homophone rather than using your own words, Ernie.
I'd like to feel some empathy but can only say that someone with only French nationality supporting leave is properly masochistic. You really aren't for all internts and purposes British until you get a passport and the Brexiteers will make you very aware of that.
I'm in exactly the opposite situation, I was born in Brimingham but I've lived in France for over thirty years. Within a few years I had a business, properties, Madame had qualifications and a good job, junior was born here. I applied for nationality and went to a very nice ceremony with people for all sorts of places, the only disappointment being not getting to sing the Marseillaise.
When the Net came along I though I'd make the most of my duality and keep my English up to scratch on forums, then just one forum, this place. It's the best of the Britain I liked. Things move on, I've turned left while Britain has turned right and our courses have diverged. I feel Foreign in Britian but this place helps enormously with keeping my finger on the pulse.
I've benefitted greatly from freedom of movement, junior too, currently studying and working in Germany. I fully support the European project whilst recognising its complexity and failings. The alternative of no EU is economically suicidal and politically dangerous IMO. Quite apart from the loss of personal freedoms.
So in real life we would soon give each other a wide berth but on here we're still talking after all these years. mMkes you think, eh !
The alternative of no EU is economically suicidal and politically dangerous IMO.
And don't forget war. Just Britian leaving the EU could result in Europe descending into war. According to former British Prime Minister David Cameron
The overriding characteristic of the referendum campaign was that both sides talked shite.
Although in my opinion the result was correct.
I think the EU has already prevented war. We don't have a parallel world to compare with but I think that Putin would have been even more agressive were it not for having an adversary the size of the EU to kepp him in check. Do you really think the wall would have come down as easily and the eastern European countires been left to westernise without the Eastern partnership? Would sanctions have been imposed? No chance. Would the Ukraine have been completely annexed as opposed to pratially? Probably.
The overriding characteristic of the referendum campaign was that both sides talked shite.
Sorry but this is shite.
On the one hand we have future predictions. Normally done as a range from best case to worse case. Which is primarily what the remain campaign was guilty of.Choosing the worse case predictions.
On the other hand we have lying about what is happening now. Which is what the brexiteers were repeatedly guilty of (as well as also selecting best case predictions0.
Also, if you bother to read what Cameron actually wrote you will be reminded why newspaper headlines, as a rule, should be ignored.
Sorry but this is shite.
On the one hand we have future predictions. Normally done as a range from best case to worse case. Which is primarily what the remain campaign was guilty of.
Nah, if you make a prediction and it turns out to be a shite prediction it's still shite. Even if you want to claim that it was just an honest mistake. Although I see it more as a politically motivated "honest mistake"
As I said, both sides have repeatedly talked shite, one side didn't have a monopoly. And in the case of pro-Euro shite that goes way back. Before joining the EEC the europhiles claimed that joining would result in unemployment falling as it would lead to tens of thousands of extra jobs. It was almost certainly the single biggest thing which swayed people to support joining EEC.
What actually happened was that unemployment went through the roof after joining. And there it stayed, above the pre-EEC level, for 45 years. Until ironically this year, 3 years after Britain voted to leave, it has now come down for the first time to its the 1974 level.
And of course the present unemployment level brings me to more immediate shite. One month before the referendum the pro-EU British government claimed that a vote to leave, never mind actually leaving, "would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy".
Apparently the economy would be tipped into a year-long recession, with at least 500,000 jobs lost and GDP around 3.6% lower, following a vote to leave. I'm sure I don't need point out that turned out to be shite too.
The reality is that you can produce forecasts to say whatever suits your political agenda. For example, remember the EU, well Germany actually, telling Greece that austerity, austerity, austerity, was the only solution? Well here's a surprise:
And here's how compassionate the EU is towards people on their knees :
I could also mention the politically motivated bollocks said by a Treasury concerning UK austerity and budgetary deficit, and I might if you want, but to get back to my original point concerning Cameron's melodramatic shite about the risk of war in Europe if Britain voted to leave in June 2016. I am indeed aware of what he actually said. He said :
"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
And :
"From Caesar’s legions to the wars of the Spanish Succession, from the Napoleonic Wars to the fall of the Berlin Wall.
The moments of which we are rightly most proud in our national story include pivotal moments in European history. Blenheim. Trafalgar. Waterloo. Our country’s heroism in the Great War."
He also went on to evoke the memories of Winston Churchill and Britain's "lone stand" against Nazi Germany in 1940.
It is the sort of mind-numbingly pathetic rhetoric that I expect from Nigel Farage. Shite in other words.
ernielynch
Member
Nah, if you make a prediction and it turns out to be a shite prediction it’s still shite.
And you think this prediction- that britain leaving the EU increases the risk of war in Europe- has turned out to be shite?
What actually happened was that unemployment went through the roof after joining.
The OPEC crisis and Thatcherism were not predicted before we joined the EEC… I'm not sure failing to join would have inoculated the UK against the unemployment caused by either.
Ernie, what year did you begin working in the UK?
You mean the OPEC crises of 1973 wasn't predicted in 1974?
And you're right, the EEC/EU didn't protect us from Thatcherism. I keep telling the europhiles that but they won't listen, as they repeat the "worker's rights" mantra. She was of course a firm remainer, a bit like you kelvin.
We joined the EEC before the OPEC crisis hit, in the same year.
Thatcherism (deliberately) raised unemployment… which has nothing to do with the UK joining the EEC.
Sorry I meant to say 1975, the year of the referendum. My mistake.
“worker’s rights” mantra
The UK adopting the social chapter post dates Thatcher, no? In fact, the lessons learned from what she did was arguably a driving force behind its creation.
Thatcherism (deliberately) raised unemployment… which has nothing to do with the UK joining the EEC.
Which of course makes my point. The answer is British government policy, not the EU. The EU is simply concerned that one country doesn't have an unfair competitive advantage over others. It couldn't give a monkeys how unfair a government is towards its citizens. The UK didn't have to ask permission from the EU when it decided that someone with less than 2 years employment could legally be unfairly dismissed.
Tony Blair famously boasted "we will still have the most restrictive union laws in the Western world", he was actually proud of that. Being a member of the EU didn't stop the most restrictive union laws in the Western world.
It may be a boast, but it isn't true, is it?
It couldn’t give a monkeys how unfair a government is towards its citizens.
Why doesn't it allow a free for all then, resulting in a race to bottom across the EU states and its closest trading partners?
There are reasons why minimum standards for workers rights need to be agreed between multiple countries (the EU spreads this to nonEU countries when signing trade arrangements as well as internally) and you can pretend all you like not to understand why that is.
And how about freedom of movement of workers?
When did you start working in the UK?
OK I'm going to leave it now. What started off as my take on the EU election results has now become a straight for or against the EU argument. It's completely off-topic and there is already a thread for that.
Junker's replacement currently being decided. Hopefully the Danish lady or Dutch bloke. I hope Macron can get the socialists on board.