[Closed] Mental health 'sickness' days

They'd say: "Why didn't you just contact us, do you want come counselling?"

"Can we do anything to help?"

"Shall we meet for a coffee and a chat?"

"Do you want to report you absence or shall we?"

Then support would be offered with a return to work plan when ready.

No need for the dramatic out of office.

But there is nothing dramatic about the out of office message. Is it more dramatic than saying "I've sprained my ankle and need a couple of days with my feet up, see you Monday"?

Just back from the docs with my first prescription of Prozac, hoping it suits me, seems these things can be a bit unpredictable.

Current employer would say -

"Why didn't you just contact us, do you want come counselling?"

"Can we do anything to help?"

"Shall we meet for a coffee and a chat?"

"Do you want to report you absence or shall we?"

Then support would be offered with a return to work plan when ready.

Previous employer would say
"Don't worry, we'll clear your desk, come and pick up your stuff when you're ready"

Bit over-dramatic and attention grabbing for an out of office IMHO. Why would you ever put details in your OOO mail?

"I'm off for two weeks expensive all inclusive holiday in the carribean. I am considerably richer than you. No access to email, back on xxx"

"I am out of the office taking my gnarrrrr bike around a trail centre to straaaavvvvaaaaaa the greens and scare young children. I will be back on Thursday"

"Taking a long weekend with the wife to do dirty things. Back in on Tuesday, may be a bit tired"

or perhaps the more standard, simple and polite:

"I'm currently out of the office with limited/no access to email. I will return to work on the xxx"

Mental health needs to be more openly discussed. But not in your out of office...

But there is nothing dramatic about the out of office message.

It's not normal to put you're reason for being off sick on your out of office though is it? Normal thing is just 'out of the business, please contact xx'

So she off to "focus on my mental health" so does that mean she's just off to keep healthy? Might replace that with "focusing on my physical health" and see how it goes

Altneratively, if ill why bothering giving the reason at all? I've ever seen anyone put they they've broken a leg/got the shits/got the flu/whatevs on their out of office.

EDIT: er year what he said

Gary_M - Member
It's not normal to put you're reason for being off sick on your out of office though is it? Normal thing is just 'out of the business, please contact xx'

It's basically saying that I can't handle the stress of my job, which may or may not spook the employer depending on whether that level of stress was normal or not.

The manager wouldn't like having to make an excuse to the board for not making a delivery date because some of her developers were off because they were feeling a little stressed.

Especially as there is a normally quite a bit of stress in software development, mainly down to our inability to estimate timescales correctly, or if we estimate correctly to then slack off at the start of a project and then panic towards the end.

Often salaries have this stress factored into them, such as salaries for developers in the front office at investment banks.

But there is nothing dramatic about the out of office message. Is it more dramatic than saying "I've sprained my ankle and need a couple of days with my feet up, see you Monday"?

Would you send that to everyone and put it in your out of office or would you just tell people your absent?

It's basically saying that I can't handle the stress of my job, which may or may not spook the employer depending on whether that level of stress was normal or not.

You can tell them by actually speaking to them though.

So you're criticising someone who has admitted having issues with her mental health for doing something a bit odd WRT workplace etiquette?

Can you see the problem there?

Would you send that to everyone and put it in your out of office or would you just tell people your absent?

No use asking me, I've been self employed for more than 20 years, but my experience of office life tells me there are people who will over share, and some you won't know anything about despite working alongside them for years.

Madalyn? Well, really. That tells you all you need to know. Attention-seeking nutter.

A guy I used to work with, who was a massive twit, instead of simply saying "I am out of the office" would put "I am out of the office on international business" so that we'd all be impressed at how important he was.

He wasn't. He was the same grade as me 🙄

We all laughed at him, and he didn't get invited to team social events 😆

So you're criticising someone who has admitted having issues with her mental health for doing something a bit odd WRT workplace etiquette?

The only problem is no one has suggested criticising them.

Spelling correction noted.

avoiding the stress by pulling a sickie won't solve the problem though will it?

It will if she can bring her whole self to work the next week 🙂

avoiding the stress by pulling a sickie won't solve the problem though will it?

Well no of course not but it can take you away from it to help find a solution and to help recover.

I have never felt the need to explain the reason why I'm not at work in my out of office replies.

I'm aware that people *may* need to know I'm not there, but at the same time, nobody cares why.

Watching this thread with interest as there are several comments that the writers are making unchecked assumptions (I know this is the internet so most of them are, but it is worth a punt at pointing them out).

The first is that mental health = stress (and work induced stress as well). Take a moment to think about all of the possible mental health issues and then you are assuming that it is work related stress and the negative connotation of that is that the person cannot do their job. A lot of conditions need active management and this may mean time off work. If you make any assumptions without knowing the details then you could be part of the problem.

The second is that there is a very large prejudice against anybody with any mental health issue. If you do not treat it as an illness that needs treatment, rather than the "put up and shut up" attitude of a lot of workplaces means that people can end up in very deep trouble. The open attitude may look odd, but if a team and employer have made a culture that a person is comfortable enough to do this then good on them(even if it may look a bit odd to the outside). The fact that you cannot see that this is what may be happening means that you are not aware that it may be an option for employers. In the long run this attitude will lead to better productivity as the illness is treated early and understood, rather than having people off for months with mental health issues. It may actually be good financial practice to do this.

I unfortunately work for one of those employers that like to make all the right noises, with free subscription to "Headspace" app and phone numbers for counselling etc. But when you actually try to ask something of them such as a change of work hours to help your symptoms and causes then they don't want to know, all front and no back..

I'm going through a period of anxiety and daily panic attacks at the moment, 3 months or more, they're not work triggered thankfully, in actual fact, work is one of the few times I feel at peace.

I've spoken to my Boss about it, he knows why I'm a bit 'off' at times and also why I've been taking longer than usual lunch breaks etc.

I've got a primary mental healthcare assessment due soon, I guess they might prescribe some time away from work, but I doubt it but if I do I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a problem.

Out of office auto replies should always be short and sweet.

I'm currently out of the office, call xxxxxx or email xxxxxxx

That's all that's needed.

The wording suggests she is being pro-active/emptive about it - can see some kind of episode coming up and is taking time off to do something to head it off.

I have a really bad knee after a motorbike accident and it hurts like hell when the weather changes. But cycling helps strengthen it.
Wonder if I could take a sunny day off to ride my bike if the forecast for the next day suggest thunderstorms?

I very much agree with manton69

But something about this story seems a bit like a publicity stunt.
It's such a vague message it could mean anything but people are drawing all sorts of conclusions from it

Interesting comments, and not all of which I agree with.

The Out of Office one is fair, I don't usually feel the need to put the reason on either although if I'm work travel I'll likely say because then people can expect a response, maybe from a mobile or on another timezone; if I'm on holiday I'll also say because then i will avoid answering all but the most urgent/important ones. I wouldn't typically say that I'm off sick, and certainly not that i have raging shits.

But she did, and may have had underlying reasons why she did. I'm more impressed that her boss was quick to say that it's Ok to need a day off BEFORE it becomes a major issue.... rather than have to pretend you have a cold. I'll be honest and say I don't think it would happen where I've worked - you're either expected to suck it up, or take it as holiday, or as above, lie.

(almost) everyone does it in some form or another.... question really is why do we have to hide it? If you went to your boss with a filthy cold and said I need a day in bed to get over this most places wouldn't bat an eyelid. If you went with a this place is doing my head in, I just need a day out before i kill someone....... different.

Interesting - I can see why you wouldn't just say you're off sick as then you just get everyone asking what was wrong etc. you when you get back (which you might not be comfortable saying due to the general stigma that still exists towards mental health issues). I think it's pretty cool she was upfront about it.

Where I work is a bit strange, they push mental health help/support quite a lot (we even have mental health first aiders in each office) but as Scud says, when it comes down to adjusting working practices to cater for it they're fairly intransigent.

It's not an automated out of office is it? Just a note to her team explaining why she's off?

I think part of her mental health issue is not having enough attention.

I would be annoyed at that person.

It has an underlying message that her employer is draconian and putting too much on her shoulders.

If you want a day off to sort your life out take one but don't air dirty laundry regardless of what it is on company communications.

Unprofessional would "manage out"

It's not an automated out of office is it? Just a note to her team explaining why she's off?

It does seem to be that yes, despite the massively misleading headline.

Out of office auto replies should always be short and sweet.

I'm currently out of the office, call xxxxxx or email xxxxxxx

That's all that's needed.

I only use three x's for emails to my wife, I think she'd be upset if I used seven for the whole office.

Some of these replies show we have a long way to go with destigmatising mental health 🙁

Some of these replies show we have a long way to go with destigmatising mental health

Agree.

[i]But something about this story seems a bit like a publicity stunt[/i]

Indeed - it's all ended up on Twitter > BBC > STW > ...

Hi,

I'll be out of the office for a while, my heid was wrecked on a hefty cocktail of illicit substances at the weekend, some trip mind, has to be said. But my mental health is now in a fragile state, I think I'm lurking somewhere around the 7th circle of hell at this very minute. I'll be back at some point when I'm squared up, I'm sure you'll all understand.

Cheers

s77

😆

Logically, its mumsnet next.

FWIW I think being able to say words to the effect of "my condition has kicked off and I need time off" and for the employer to be OK with it is a massive thing.

As opposed to having to invent a stomach bug.

FWIW I think being able to say words to the effect of "my condition has kicked off and I need time off" and for the employer to be OK with it is a massive thing.

but would you copy in everyone else in the office?

Bit over-dramatic and attention grabbing for an out of office IMHO. Why would you ever put details in your OOO mail?
...
Mental health needs to be more openly discussed. But not in your out of office...

Presumably to raise awareness of issues that some people might trivialise or otherwise pooh-pooh (you know, like putting "sickness" in quotes in a thread title for instance). 40,000 likes and 13,000 retweets - along with a potentially lengthy discussion on a popular mountain biking forum - would suggest that it's been moderately successful.

Take a moment to think about all of the possible mental health issues and then you are assuming that it is work related stress and the negative connotation of that is that the person cannot do their job. A lot of conditions need active management and this may mean time off work. If you make any assumptions without knowing the details then you could be part of the problem.

Indeed. This is worth a read (and note the domain name):

https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

I know several Spoonies.

A guy at work sent an email in saying that he was working at home as he had a bad stomach and was 'a bit loose'.

For balance,

A few people have been talking about Out Of Office messages (even though the story is about an email to her team, not an OOO). I was off work for a couple of days with a cold that put me on my back; this was my internal OOO response:

[i]Thanks for your message.  

Please be advised that I'm off work currently as I have the lurgy.  If anyone wants me I'll be in bed with a Lemsip rub and a hot mug of Vicks.  I'll get back to you as soon as I can on my return.[/i]

Thanks for your message.

Please be advised that I'm off work currently as I have the lurgy. If anyone wants me I'll be in bed with a Lemsip rub and a hot mug of Vicks. I'll get back to you as soon as I can on my return.

Do you work for s small company where everyone knows you? If that's the case then that's fine.

I work for a company with 14k employees worldwide, a colleague in australia doesn't need to know I have a runny nose 🙂

Hey Drac, this comment here looks like criticism to me...

No need for the dramatic out of office.

A few people have been talking about Out Of Office messages (even though the story is about an email to her team, not an OOO

To be fair, that's down to the article (and the headline) specifically saying it was an Out Of Office message.

Do you work for s small company where everyone knows you? If that's the case then that's fine.

I work for a company with 14k employees worldwide,

Off the top of my head I think we have something like 700 employees across multiple sites. TBH though, I'm unlikely to be emailed by someone who doesn't know me.

i would be to told to man up you wuss. but where do you draw the line and not have people abuse this? what evidence would you need to show its a sick day specifically for mental health?

i would be to told to man up you wuss.

Which is the problem in a nutshell.

what evidence would you need to show its a sick day specifically for mental health?

The same evidence you would need to show for a sick day specifically for physical health - none whatsoever if it's less than a week.

what evidence would you need to show its a sick day specifically for mental health?

Do you ask for stool samples when people have a sick day because they've got the shits ?

(Edit- what cougar said 3 seconds earlier and slightly more eloquently 😉 )

Presumably to raise awareness of issues that some people might trivialise or otherwise pooh-pooh (you know, like putting "sickness" in quotes in a thread title for instance)

I hope you didn't read my quotations as me poo-pooing it. As someone who has just finished a period of counselling for exactly these issues, it is absolutely not my intent. The quotation marks were intended to convey that people are finally becoming aware enough that it is a condition just like a cold or other physical ailment and that taking a 'sick' day to prevent it becoming a major problem is perfectly valid, and that people will accept it as a valid reason.

Sorry - some people; others are still in the pull yourself together camp that damages so badly.

To be fair, that's down to the article (and the headline) specifically saying it was an Out Of Office message.

So we can really easily identify the (vast majority of) people who didn't actually read the article, just the headline and started frothing. It would be a bit weird as an OoO, but as it's clearly an email we can just delete most of the responses and start again!

Thanks for your message.
Please be advised that I'm off work currently as I have the lurgy. If anyone wants me I'll be in bed with a Lemsip rub and a hot mug of Vicks. I'll get back to you as soon as I can on my return.

Do you own novelty ties, and think they're hilarious?

some of her developers were off because they were feeling a little stressed

How the hell do you know she was 'a little stressed'? You're part of the problem with posts like that.

I used to pull sickies in my first job. Going straight from the exciting fun life of a student surrounded by a proper group of mates for basically the first time, and exploring the world of everything; to a crushingly mundane 9-5 in a new city on my own where I got bollocked for 9.05am by a guy who was like Alan Partridge without the laughs - well, that was a bit of a shock and I struggled.

There were days I just couldn't face going in. Not because I had a diagnosable mental illness, but because I hated it. I delivered my work though and put the work in when the pressure was on.

How wrong was I?

I hope you didn't read my quotations as me poo-pooing it.

To be honest, I simply didn't think that comment through. Cheerfully withdrawn, my apologies.

Do you own novelty ties, and think they're hilarious?

What can I say, I amuse me.

I probably still do own some novelty ties, last worn some time in the 90s. Can't remember the last time I wore a tie even, aside from my dad's funeral last year (and a Garfield tie probably wouldn't have been appropriate).

If anyone needed any evidence about why mental health stigma is a thing that exists and needs to be challenged, in the workplace or not, reading this thread should put the argument to bed.

It's basically saying that I can't handle the stress of my job

Is it? Which email are you reading? The one I've seen makes no reference to stress, work related or otherwise.

because they were feeling a little stressed

FFS seriously? You read "mental health" and to you that means, and can only mean "feeling a little stressed". Have a word with yourself. Do some reading. Seriously, you haven't got a clue.

Attention-seeking nutter

Given that there are still cavemen who would say things like that, I'd like to modify it to "Attention seeking and incredibly courageous nutter" or maybe not. Maybe labelling people with mental health issues as "nutters" actually isn't very funny and just labels the person who does that as an ignorant moron?

avoiding the stress by pulling a sickie won't solve the problem though will it?

What stress? Where does anyone refer to stress? They don't. People with no clue about mental health might make the assumption if "a bit stressed" is really the nearest they can get to understanding mental health issues.

And "pulling a sickie" - that phrase normally refers to people lying about being unwell. What sort of "nutter" would be dumb enough to do that and make up something that ignorant morons will refuse to recognise as genuine illness? You'd have to be "mad" to do that.

It has an underlying message that her employer is draconian and putting too much on her shoulders.

Seriously, have I followed the wrong link and we're actually debating a totally different email exchange from the one I've read? Nowhere does any of it state or imply that the person's mental health issues are caused by work.

(@theotherjonv (and @Cougar) TBH I had the same reaction and made the same assumption that there was something judgemental about putting "sickness" in quotation marks in the title - I'm glad you'd clarified this before I included you in my rant!)

I can see why it reads like that and I wish i hadn't now. Mental health is as real as physical health and doesn't need any form of differentiation. Again it was targeted to the colloquialism of a 'sick' day or 'sickie', where I really meant 'period of absence from work of a duration less than that where a Doctor's certificate is required' - but that wouldn't fit in the title.

And I do also overuse 'quotation marks' to make 'a point' at times.

Hey Drac, this comment here looks like criticism to me...

If you ignore everything above that you mean.

Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive. That's why the article is newsworthy in the first place.

One or 2 people have made a massive assumption that taking time off work for mental health issues must be because they can't handle the stress of the job. I had a severe episode of depression for 3 months at the start of this year. It was not work-related, in fact, I found that work kept my mind off it. I did take one day off with the full support of my manager to have a rest because I was exhausted from lack of sleep.

Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive.

yep, very sad.

I suffer with depression yet I wouldn't dream of sending out an email like that. My boss knows I suffer, that's it and to be frank that's the way I prefer it. If I'm off sick for physical reasons I'll let my boss know and that's it. It's not to do with any sort of stigma attached to mental health. More the fact that it's personal. I think this may be why a few on here are a bit baffled by the whole thing.

I'm all for treating mental health in the same way we do physical health. I just think this is a very weird way to highlight the issue. Each to their own though.

Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive.

Largely I'm cheered that they seem to be the minority.

I just think this is a very weird way to highlight the issue.

It's a short email presented out of context. Her team could be three people all of whom are already aware of whatever her condition is and 'hey, it's flared up again' could be a perfectly natural message to send out to them rather than some vague handwave that she's not going to be in for a couple of days which might worry them unduly.

Her boss's reply thanks her for sending the email and says "every time you do..." which would imply that there's a history here rather than it being an out of the blue notification of her illness. Retweeting that in and of itself might not have intentionally been a means of highlighting the issue but rather "hey, my boss is awesome."

Largely I'm cheered that they seem to be the minority.

True.

The stigma is starting to move but there's a still large portion of people who fail to accept how serious mental health can be.

Maybe the article is selling the story wrong probably part of it but still a strange email to send out. I'm on restricted duties just now, those that need to know why have been informed by the process. I won't be sending out an email to all management of why this is the case, just no need.

[quote=jamj1974 ]Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive. That's why the article is newsworthy in the first place.

THIS

I applaud anyone and any organisation that takes the time to challenge the stigma around mental health and pro actively support its staff

Being to told to "man up you wuss" is as useful as saying the same to someone with a broken leg. Yes they might get through the day but it is not making the illness any better and may well do harm.

It's a short email presented out of context. Her team could be three people all of whom are already aware of whatever her condition is

Not anymore, it's now pretty much anybody on the internet. The fact it's presented at all is what I find odd. I wouldn't send an email about any sort of illness be it mental or physical. Probably just me that finds it odd.

Like I stated previously, I suffer with depression, very badly at times. I just find this approach slightly bizarre. I wouldn't email my colleagues or my boss to say "hey I've got the black dog again. Been thinking about ending my life, so I'll be off for two or three days" in the same way that I wouldn't send a mail saying "Caught the bad cat aids, will be off for a fortnight"

I just find that level of sharing in a work environment to be strange. No offence meant to anyone and if it helps to highlight mental health issues, that's great. I'm just not sure it does that in the best way.

How many of you on this thread would contactv anyone other than your direct manager about literally any personal issues?

I just find that level of sharing in a work environment to be strange

I don't doubt it. My point was though, work environments aren't all alike.

You're right Cougar. I'm looking at it from a personal rather than a big picture perspective. I just wouldn't do it in any place I worked. If it helps highlight the way mental health is perceived then it can only be a good thing I guess

How many of you on this thread would contactv anyone other than your direct manager about literally any personal issues?

Depends on what the issue is and what help you need

Then again I work for touchy feely third sector employer so we may not be reflective of the cut and thrust real world of capitalism.

One in four people will suffer mental illness. I have, I was lucky it was a minor short lasting problem. I overcame it in a few months with support from friends. I didn't tell my line manager as I have no confidence in him. I would have used the counselling service my work provides as it is entirely confidential but distance ruled it out.
There is still a huge stigma attached to mental health issues perhaps some of that is rooted in poor information or lack of knowledge about mental health
[url= https://www.samh.org.uk/about-mental-health/being-there-for-someone ]SAMH[/url]

Drac - Moderator
They'd say: "Why didn't you just contact us, do you want come counselling?"

"Can we do anything to help?"

"Shall we meet for a coffee and a chat?"

"Do you want to report you absence or shall we?"

Then support would be offered with a return to work plan when ready.

Probably happens in a big company or the public sector, but unlikely to be even thought of in a SME, hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.

Also the management will probably have no appreciation of mental health isues or training into how to handle the illness tactfully and with respect.

Probably happens in a big company or the public sector, but unlikely to be even thought of in a SME, hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.

Also the management will probably have no appreciation of mental health isues or training into how to handle the illness tactfully and with respect.

The support I mentioned is all very new less than 5 years old. The battle to take away the stigma is still on going but being won gradually. If a big company can do it so can smaller ones, supporting staff for any illness is achievable mental health is no different.

If a big company can do it so can smaller ones

you missed this bit...

[t]hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.

TurnerGuy - Member

If a big company can do it so can smaller ones

you missed this bit...

that need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.

I presume these small place must be the ones that ban employees doing extreme sports like cycling or skiing to ensure their staff dont take any days off for physical injury?

TurnerGuy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is "man up".

you missed this bit...

[t]hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.

No, no I didn't supporting staff can mean they don't go absent or leave to find an employer that cares.

But a lot of employers dont want to touch a person with diagnosed mental illness, some dont understand the treatments available or have never met anyone who has a mental ilness. Theres so many different diagnoses and diferent forms of mental illness, that may well not fit in with the companies oter staff or customers/consumers.

Then are there the jobs out there to just jump from employer to the next, so many chasing so few jobs.

Bit of self censorship

tomhoward - Member
It's not an automated out of office is it? Just a note to her team explaining why she's off?

Correct, which begs the question who is the dirty grass who forwarded it to the CEO hoping to get her into trouble?

theotherjonv - Member

I suspect we've all had them, those days where you've just had enough and need to take a day out to 'decompress' (other jargon is available)

What would your work / boss say if you put this as your out of office?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/cc1ab625-3180-4017-b8c8-5e54b4828d4b

Are you like me and feign the flu / the shits instead?

nope, I've had to take time off work because of mental health issue. My wife had to phone them up which is "against the rules". When I went back I talked to my manager and everything was fine. Every time we get a new manager I explain my illness to them.

But a lot of employers dont want to touch a person with diagnosed mental illness, some dont understand the treatments available or have never met anyone who has a mental ilness. Theres so many different diagnoses and diferent forms of mental illness, that may well not fit in with the companies oter staff or customers/consumers.

That's no different from any other illness though you're reflecting the stigma that it's hard to deal with and employers don't know what to do. They just need to understand that people need help when unwell no matter what the condition is.

Then are there the jobs out there to just jump from employer to the next, so many chasing so few jobs.

Jobs or no jobs not supporting staff means they will leave or stay off longer.