We thought that HRT was all the same, but the pharamacist ran out of the prescribed one so gave Mrs N a different one which was way better, have now changed the prescription.
Very true!
Having had estrogen levels checked my wife found that the patches she had were very ineffective as well as giving her dermatitis. Not sure what the brand was (i'll find out if you're interested) but switching to another type has really helped.
So worth bearing in mind if assuming HRT isn't helping - have the follow up blood / hormone tests done!
Possibly also worth noting that Hypothyroidism can lead to some similar symptoms that may then lead to the sort of behavioural issues described in this thread. So if getting bloods done, ask if thyroxine levels can be checked.
Well maybe it's the wrong word but you know what I mean, and that's a bit unnecessarily snappy eh?
Pot, kettle etc.
If you're going to use "woke" pejoratively then it's always going to provoke a reaction I'm afraid.
@cougar Eh? I don't understand your point at all.
I was not using 'woke' as a slur. Go and re- read what I wrote.
I'd go so far as to class myself as being woke (to a point at least woke-ish) because it represents my values of considering other people's perspectives.and challenges.
Now, now - I know it's a big ask for STW - but let's not divert the thread please.
Yep I'd also rather it wasn't like this on here.
I apologise for the handbags that polluted the thread but not for calling people out for (ironically) starting a fight needlessly about something immaterial to the debate.
No further engagement from me on the matter.
Ditto. Sorry.
Weekly update No.1...
• Missus has had a week off work and is signed off next week as well. Her boss was very understanding as his wife if also of a similar age! She actually switched off and sat and watched some films which she never does.
• She's back on the Citalopram so hopefully that will help with the anxiety. So it isn't exacerbated as much by the menopause hormones.
• We've not had an argument since the 'summit meeting' last Monday morning (well there have been a few moments that could have excalated, but we both somehow reigned in).
• I've got my daughter on side too - she even cleaned the bathroom on Saturday! I don't think she realised how close her mum was to cracking up. She's not a bad daughter but sometimes doesn't see how little things can be big issues the her mum. That half-drunk mug of tea needs pouring away and the mug putting in the dishwasher!
• She's booked some Yoga sessions which she used to enjoy but the horse became all-consuming.
• I don't think my wife truly appreciated how her behaviour was affecting my daughter and me. I think it was my complete acceptance last Monday that if we did break up I'd be fine with it. I think she was expecting more emotion.
...we'll see how things go - but hopefully we're all pulling in the same direction as a family and can work through it.
Bon chance. Hopefully you've got to it before the damage is permanent.
Good news, and let's hope improvements continue.
I am tired, pissed off and confused about it all.
Just read the entire thread and the only thing I really understood was that I don't have the financial means to walk away and I don't want to lose out on seeing my son everyday.
I am tired, pissed off and confused about it all.
Just read the entire thread and the only thing I really understood was that I don't have the financial means to walk away and I don't want to lose out on seeing my son everyday.
Perhaps another key point is it's much more common than mebbies you thought and you're (probably) not the total tnuc causing all the stress in your household. Hold onto that thought.
Perhaps another key point is it's much more common than mebbies you thought and you're (probably) not the total tnuc causing all the stress in your household. Hold onto that thought.
+1
And a big +1 for this as well
Thing is, its not consistent - some weeks (generally weekends actually) are just unbearable. A day or two later, its like nothing happened but I'm still reeling / scarred from it which makes "being friends" hard in the good times because I'm still processing the maelstrom.
She can be absolutely intolerable, swinging from shouting, to silence and back again for days, then act like nothing has happened* and it then takes me days to stop walking on eggshells and accept that things are back to normal, and by the time that happens it may well have swung around again, or the fact that I've gone quiet, or left the house for a few hours, or however I'm dealing with it becomes the trigger.
Short term, getting her out the house in public with friends helps, either it takes her mind off it or she just won't make a scene.
*I think you just have to accept that in her mind nothing has happened, it was all completely reasonable relative to her hormone clouded perception.
@the-muffin-man loads of positives in that update, thanks for sharing. Clear efforts from both of you and your daughter to get to a better place. A recognition from all of you perhaps, that despite the choppy waters, what you have is worth some effort to keep hold of. I know the situation can be fragile but that does sound like a fair few steps in the right direction. Long may it continue 👍
Those that have partners that are having a really torrid time of it, are they actively looking at the solutions, help, advice and work arounds. Or just letting it happen and trying to see it through?
As if they aren't trying to help themselves, its unlikely you can help them. Which sucks.
One of the worst aspects of it I've noticed is that in the same way people who are depressed often don't notice, because it all seems so 'real' Women don't know they're being affected by it, not until the physical symptoms appear anyway. Anyone who's lived with a Woman who has erm... lively PMT will know what I mean. They don't know they're being a dick, not even in hindsight, every hurtful word, every raised voice etc... completely justified by the actions of whoever was 'attacking' them at the time.
You really need to tip-toe a very difficult tight rope to even talk about it, or you'll end up being told you're a 'typical Man' aka someone who doesn't understand something that the only person who can educate you about it, wont.
I know it sounds horrid, but I always end up back in the same place. If someone is behaving badly towards you, for whatever the reason, it has to be challenged. Menopause, Mental Health, Sickness, Stress, etc etc none of it is an excuse to break Rule 1. But by being as tolerant and patient as you can you can do it as non-confrontationally as possible using kind words and actions. The alternative is either living in unhappiness hoping things will change, and they wont, or waiting until it's unbearable when you'll 'suddenly' walk out on her. Let's not forget Suicide and other forms of self-harm are a real threat to Men at all stages of their lives, but between the age of 45 and 55 are the highest 'risk' years, with a peak between 50-54. So don't for a moment accept the myth that Menopause suffering is only a Women's burden.
I think trying to understand the menopause and the possible symptoms is important as it helps you understand rather than using trigger phrases like "it just her hormones". As a male I am sure we will never truly understand, but being more educated must surely help in some cases. I went online, but there are a lot of recommendations for Davina MaCalls Menopause book and it was my next port of call after the GP visit that luckily got things back on track.
If someone is behaving badly towards you, for whatever the reason, it has to be challenged. Menopause, Mental Health, Sickness, Stress, etc etc none of it is an excuse to break Rule 1. But by being as tolerant and patient as you can you can do it as non-confrontationally as possible using kind words and actions. The alternative is either living in unhappiness hoping things will change, and they wont
💯
I'm not sure I quite agree with the bit above about people knowing nothing about their bad behaviour. I think, most of the time* people .do know when they've acted like a total dick. It's just easier to ignore it than think critically about themselves and confront their own behaviour
(*not all of the time, and definitely not all people!)
I think it was my complete acceptance last Monday that if we did break up I'd be fine with it.
Not good that it has got to this point (obviously!) but I think this clarity is a very healthy head space for you to be in as you try to resolve it, together.
I'm not sure I quite agree with the bit above about people knowing nothing about their bad behaviour. I think, most of the time* people .do know when they've acted like a total dick. It's just easier to ignore it than think critically about themselves and confront their own behaviour
(*not all of the time, and definitely not all people!)
Dunno. If it completely overwhelms self awareness as depression (mentioned up there^) can do, I can imagine people are unaware of how badly they are behaving. Not having gone through it, I can't say with any certainty one way or the other.
What I can say is, the 'you don't understand as you don't have to go through it' is both convenient and incorrect. Convenient as an excuse and incorrect as we most definitely go through it at the (other) shitty end of the stick.
Understanding the irrational reactions to something you (as a partner) has just said, is hard work.
Wife has been out with friends, I moved my van/car off the drive and went for a "shop" to warm it up (ish) as I will probably drive to work tomorrow due to ice - I cycle to work.
Van was then parked on pavement out of the way. So wife comes home and parks on drive (just enough room for two vehicles). I said I'll leave the van where it is. Otherwise, I'll have to move van and her car off drive. I'm driving tomorrow to keep the boss happy as it's a bit dodgy icy.
Wife then kicks off... if son comes back in morning (from night shift) he might park on top of drive and I can't get out 'if' I want to go out for a swim. Bear in mind she isn't working... and she doesn't do her swims on a Thursday morning. She swims Friday and Saturday - so I'm an idiot ?
I'm like, well you didn't tell me that. Just move your car back up the drive a bit so he doesn't park there.
I said, I'm not starting the van to move it 6 foot as it's really bad for it - I bought it as a lifestyle vehicle - I explained it wasn't a shopper/commuter, it's our holiday van, and it has been.
She kicked off and went to bed.
WTAF.
I went out and then moved her car back up the drive 6ft so my son, may or may not park on the drive so she 'might' go for a swim on a Thursday morning, that she's never done before.
I then go up and said I've moved your car.
Thanks, I'm tired...
You just have to go WTAF, then think a while, then do what they wanted. It's mad, but it's life...
I'm very much a 'life happens, think, get on with it'. Doesn't work well with lots of my family, but as someone who has badly broken their spine and pelvic/hip socket... get on with it...
Tonight was a typical example of a simple request (i.e. I or you would reverse your warm car up the drive rather than me move a cold modern diesel) was totally irrational.
Life isn't perfect. You muddle on and fix it.
Ha Ha! The moving cars shuffle! 🤣
There's only 3 of us in our house (with a 3 in a row drive) and I'm the only one who thinks about what order the cars need to be in for the next morning.
The world caves in when someone doesn't tell you their plans have changed and they may have to shuffle the cars themselves! 😱
Definition of rich is when you have enough parking there is no need to shuffle cars.
I got a pan out for my wife to use at the weekend, then mentioned it was smoking a lot (we have some stick and some non-stick pans). She's not officially peri, but we ended up in a sizeable argument as she has followed my 'exact' instructions on how to use a pan without having it smoke loads, but it still doesn't work.
Once things had simmered down (pun intended) we talked it through, she's mega-analytical and everything said in the heat of the moment has to be reprocessed. We got to the point where I explained that the specific type of oil is important and my instructions were to not use olive oil and also that a pan needs a build up of this to not smoke, rather than bung some olive oil in, crank the heat and expect it to be fine. After this things were relatively ok, although neither of us enjoyed getting through the argument or to the end.
Neither of us have official diagnosis as to where we fall on the spectrum, but I'm sure we are both fairly well into the logical, procedural and variances are bad type people which means we have a lot of similarities and also are quite hard to deal with. I suspect once hormones take more of a hold this is going to get more difficult too.
We've also been seeing a therapist which has been useful as an impartial third person to help us see what we can do better and personally I hope we keep getting better at these things. I think we underestimate the impact and power of hormones in general and not feeling these ourselves it makes it harder for us to be compassionate about.
Relationships take work and people are difficult, especially if they have been in your life for longer than they weren't (we've been together for 26 year I think), I know I'm not easy to live with as well.
the beauty of menopause is much like that of having children, it will find the cracks that exist in your relationship and potentially blow them wide open!
Therapy as a couple or individually shouldnt be overlooked. The changes in your partners behaviour can easily trigger something inside of you that has never come to the surface before. Its good to talk!
Definition of rich is when you have enough parking there is no need to shuffle cars.
I didn't have a drive for 27 years - 3 cars in a row is winning at life!! 🤣
I got a pan out for my wife to use at the weekend .... as she has followed my 'exact' instructions on how to use a pan without having it smoke loads, but it still doesn't work.
We got to the point where I explained that the specific type of oil is important and my instructions were to not use olive oil and also that a pan needs a build up of this to not smoke, rather than bung some olive oil in, crank the heat and expect it to be fine.
You've given your wife instructions on how to use a frying pan?
I should get my wife to read this as she might understand how much worse she could have it! 🤣
I think we underestimate the impact and power of hormones in general and not feeling these ourselves it makes it harder for us to be compassionate about.
Men absolutely do experience hormones, and I think it's very unfortunate that society has tended to categorise any kind of hormonal issue as A Woman Thing. Testosterone is a hormone, for a start.
Women 'are hormonal'. Men on the other hand 'see red'. There was a post here a few years back by someone who was taking his kid to swimming, and basically got out of the car and started a fight with a moped rider who had slowed him down. He acted completely illogically, ruined everyone's day and made himself even later for swimming, but being a bloke no-one called it 'hormonal'.
(See also 'roid rage' - also caused by mucking around with hormones).
Part of the point here being, to the person experiencing it, you're not 'angry because of your hormones', you're simply angry. There's no degree of separation here.
Part of the point here being, to the person experiencing it, you're not 'angry because of your hormones', you're simply angry. There's no degree of separation here.
For some nuance there's some evidence that post-COVID those who have been infected are more prone to temper problems. Not me, I'm just a through & though ****!
For some nuance there's some evidence that post-COVID those who have been infected are more prone to temper problems. Not me, I'm just a through & though ****!
Infected? Had Covid? Well, that's everyone then.
I know this is slightly off topic, as my wife is in her mid thirties as am I, but has anyone had a partner on Mounjaro get absolutely bonkers mood swings?
list of things I've been yelled at for this week:
-being "miserable" whilst putting the xmas decs up, at 6pm after a long day at work, outside in the dark, sideways rain and high wind during the storm, and fighting off the flu. Apparently I'm just miserable and don't want the house to look nice
-Asking for the biggest chicken breast when tea was getting plated up
-after recovering from the flu, deciding to go for a run on my lunch break and walk the dog after work instead of walking the dog during my lunch break apparently this is cruel
-interrupting her whilst she was on the phone cause I wanted to know if she needed anything from the shops
-the dog sneaking into our bedroom and snoring whilst we were asleep, and me getting the blame for it, she woke me up yelling, I went for a wee, dog started snoring again and she started screaming again for me to "shutup snoring" whilst I was mid stream in the bathroom
-yelled at me for wanting to stick a new mtb on 0% credit card for about £250 p/m despite her spending £310 p/m on mounjaro, as apparently the working bathroom needs doing and thats more important general jist I got here is she thinks I only think about myself and not the house
That's just from the past week, but it's been like this since May when she first went on it, and gets worse everytime she goes up a dose
I know this is slightly off topic, as my wife is in her mid thirties as am I, but has anyone had a partner on Mounjaro get absolutely bonkers mood swings?
list of things I've been yelled at for this week:
-being "miserable" whilst putting the xmas decs up, at 6pm after a long day at work, outside in the dark, sideways rain and high wind during the storm, and fighting off the flu. Apparently I'm just miserable and don't want the house to look nice
-Asking for the biggest chicken breast when tea was getting plated up
-after recovering from the flu, deciding to go for a run on my lunch break and walk the dog after work instead of walking the dog during my lunch break apparently this is cruel
-interrupting her whilst she was on the phone cause I wanted to know if she needed anything from the shops
-the dog sneaking into our bedroom and snoring whilst we were asleep, and me getting the blame for it, she woke me up yelling, I went for a wee, dog started snoring again and she started screaming again for me to "shutup snoring" whilst I was mid stream in the bathroom
-yelled at me for wanting to stick a new mtb on 0% credit card for about £250 p/m despite her spending £310 p/m on mounjaro, as apparently the working bathroom needs doing and thats more important general jist I got here is she thinks I only think about myself and not the houseThat's just from the past week, but it's been like this since May when she first went on it, and gets worse everytime she goes up a dose
I think the condition you've described there is known as 'married life'... 🤣
Correct, and you are 'wrong' before even asking.
OK only kidding !
I know this is slightly off topic, as my wife is in her mid thirties as am I, but has anyone had a partner on Mounjaro get absolutely bonkers mood swings?
Mood swings because of lack of food?
Mood swings because of lack of food?
This and the bit above about men also being moody. I've been really bad at this in the past and probably have debt to service in that sense. I have, at times, gone batshit (relatively, I'm not a monster) over "nothing" and know its ridiculous. Post-exercise crashes are / were the worst, I could be an ogre for days.
Which is to say, I do have an appreciation of how she feels regardless of hormones, blood sugar, stress whatever the cause.
I think "The Chimp Paradox" helped a lot, who wants to suggest to other halves they maybe want to read it?
some anecdotal evidence for GLP1 patients with irritability, mood swings and anxiety.
GLP1 mimics gut hormones, which are involved in brain function and mood regulation. Also there's some blood sugar fluctuations which can cause those symptoms, and there's some evidence of nutrient deficiencies in some patients which impact brain function and mood.
Plus if food is an emotional control mechanism, take that away...
You've given your wife instructions on how to use a frying pan?
Makes me sound worse than I am, I was asked how to stop it smoking. My wife is not a big fan of cooking whereas I am. I am also process driven, so in my mind there is a right way to do things, my way, ok, I didn't make myself sound worse I am just a bit of a nightmare.
Given the tendency for process and deep diving though, the coffee is amazing at home. That was also bad as I have 'ruined' coffee shops because ours is better.
As for the hormones not being something we experience, I know men have them, but I believe we experience them to a lesser extent, I may well be wrong though.
You've given your wife instructions on how to use a frying pan?
I may well be wrong though.
Regardless, almost certainly 😉
I know men have them, but I believe we experience them to a lesser extent, I may well be wrong though.
I rode our mare this morning all the male horses were castrated the poor things. Mares are sometimes a bit moody but stalions plain dangerous. That's the case in many mamals and I don't think humans are an exception.
I think it's men that that experience the effect of their hormones most. And women are often the victims of it.
Men absolutely do experience hormones, and I think it's very unfortunate that society has tended to categorise any kind of hormonal issue as A Woman Thing. Testosterone is a hormone, for a start.
Women 'are hormonal'. Men on the other hand 'see red'.
It's an interesting point. No-one says "well, it's the time of the month / that time of their life so we have to make allowances and try to understand, it must be terrible for them" when a bloke gets all fighty with little provocation. We, quite rightly, call out their shit behaviour. What's the difference, the bloke is more likely to do physical damage instead of / as well as psychological?
No-one says "well, it's the time of the month / that time of their life so we have to make allowances and try to understand, it must be terrible for them" when a bloke gets all fighty with little provocation.
You need to be careful with that line of thinking in the current climate. It could lead to mass castration for the good of the rest of the population! 😀
It's an interesting point. No-one says "well, it's the time of the month / that time of their life so we have to make allowances and try to understand, it must be terrible for them" when a bloke gets all fighty with little provocation. We, quite rightly, call out their shit behaviour. What's the difference, the bloke is more likely to do physical damage instead of / as well as psychological?
A few hundred years ago this behavior would be seen as totally normal and a very good thing when we were off crusading/viking raiding/protecting the tribe. We've not evolved in that time biologically even if we have socially.
No-one says "well, it's the time of the month / that time of their life so we have to make allowances and try to understand, it must be terrible for them" when a bloke gets all fighty with little provocation.
No, but historically we have said things like 'He must have had a hard day" or "He's just really passionate about XYZ" or "His wife was nagging him" or "well he's not normally like that".
Until 2010, "provocation" was an admissible defence against murder, and even now 'Loss of control' can get you downgraded to manslaughter.
Anyway, this is getting somewhat OT, I don't mean to derail the thread.
I've no experience from this side of the fence, but Instagram just threw up this post..... The algorithms have been observing.
I've no experience from this side of the fence, but Instagram just threw up this post..... The algorithms have been observing.
I can confirm that this works.
It'd probably be even more effective if the women tried it too.
My sympathies. HRT saved/is saving my marriage, no doubt.
I do know it took several visits, and finding a new consultant, to get the HRT right though. Amazing (not amazing) how many GPs know eff-all about this whole topic. Finding an HRT specialist (who happened to be female) changed everything.
Good luck. And my sympathies, once more.