...is there any out there because I'm at my wits end.
Another weekend of not being able to do anything right and deathly silences. Short of walking out on a 35yr marriage I'm at a loss as to what to do.
It's been going on for years and seems to be getting worse (wife is 56). I eventually managed to get her to try HRT but she's only been on it two months and decided that it isn't working, but going back to the doctor is 'a faff and useless'.
She's been on Citalopram in the past and I can see similarities in her mood now to how she was at the time she went on those. Perhaps revisit that option as I'm not sure all is menupause related?
I'm really trying to be supportive but there's only so much I can give and I'm running out of ideas of how to handle it.
Hopefully some of you will have experience of this.
(It's taken me all morning to write this and wondering whether to post or not and I still don't think I've made a good job of it! I don't know how much info to put into this post sp I thought I'd wait for questions!).
How confident are you that this is all attributable to menopause rather than personality?
I really wish I could help, but I'm a woman and only know things from your wife's side.
Does she take part in any activities, exercise classes, hobbies that are of an outdoor pursuit type, sports? Because these are the things that saved me and probably hubby too.
Encourage her friends to take her out. They will listen to her woes and this gives you a bit of peace.
I hope I don't sound too heartless, but please be grateful that the brain fog, hot sweats, sleepless nights, lack of concentration and feeling downright unattractive and sometimes utterly useless doesn't apply to you.
Join a men in sheds type group and chat to other men who are possibly in the same boat.
There is some help out there. But after the last 2 years of trying to get support from the local GP (multiple surgeries) it does not seem to be in the NHS who seem to think Yoga is the cure.
My wife has Perimenopause and PMDD, and the scenario you have described sounds scarily similar. Eventually we paid for a private appointment with a consultant as private healthcare (ours anyway) does not cover Perimenopause. He gave my wife a options including a hysterectomy. We took the option to try the chemically educed menopause which overnight changed the way my wife was feeling.
What I will say the key for us in terms of my wife's health and our relationship was to keep talking and communicating with each other. Being understanding of how she felt and what she was going through made the difference in feeling like she wasn't having to does something alone which is easy to feel like it is all her problem as I was not going through it with her. The reality was that while it is not my body and I can't understand how it feels, I am the closest person to her and there with her and for her to give the love and support she needs to be able to cope with this.
I have don't plenty of reading and talking to people, the support and healthcare for this, just isn't there. We were talking to the GP when my wife was suicidal and she said she was very complicated and they didn't know how to help her.
The best advice, I can offer is to be open with each other, keep talking and supporting her. We found that became us supporting each other. IF you can talk to others around you and make sure friends and family are aware, they will understand. When I spoke to my close friends, we realised as couples we are all going through something similar with our partners and are effected in different ways.
I also saw a therapist for myself, it is important in this to not lose yourself and look after your own needs.
I am sorry you and your wife are going through this, it is unfair on everyone. When you look at the impact on women in careers, relationships and their life in general through this it is hard to believe it is only now being talked about properly.
feel free to DM me and get in contact if it helps.
Go to the pub?
We went through this during covid lock down. It came on quite suddenly, happened at a time when we were under each others feet 10x more than previously and neither of us knew quite what was going on. There were times i could say shit tasted horrible and she would argue that it was nice. There were times when she would miss stuff or do stuff i just couldnt understand. It wasnt about what she did, it was about understanding how it made her feel when she realised because it was seriously hurting her to be so out of control.
A few things that helped us
1) Take out the me in everything. Its not me, I or you. Its us and we. If all you are interested in is making it go away for you to get an easier life, its going to be a hard slog.
2) Read up on it. Watch programmes about it. Davina McColl was a good one. There are hundreds of articles about it. Do it together. Ask her what she has read up on it and if she mentions something, make sure you read it too. It helps show you are doing as much as possible but also makes sure you are both getting same information. Theres lots about and lots contradicts each other so it helps not to be on different pages arguing about different techniques and drugs.
3) Dont just suggest whatever drug is the magic solution
4) Dont expect her to have the answers.
There are loads of things we did but the main thing was to always remember she is my best friend and she was struggling. Helping her in whatever way you can is the answer. Maybe its just a cuddle. Maybe when she puts your favourite tshirt in the oven its about letting her know you dont give a shit about a tshirt in the grand scheme of things.
Its hard but if/when you get the balance right its not so bad. (We could have easily killed each other at times)
I feel your pain OP. But as Bunnyhop says, we men definitely get the easy gig (along with many other aspects of biology).
We ( my wife and I) had a very frank and useful conversation and walk yesterday where this came up. Or rather Mrs Cs anxiety that she puts down to menopause. She now gets (to my mind) irrationality stressed about countless small things that build into big things. I found myself saying "I feel myself being drawn into your madness" which on reflection was non-ideal, but maybe sums up where I'm at. The feeling of needing to do stuff to appease and keep the peace but you know are just bonkers. Her self awareness that stuff is not right, but reluctance to do anything about it. At a similar age her aunt would throw her husband out the house for the day at the weekend as she couldn't stand how much his very presence was 'making the place look untidy'. Poor guy just didn't know what to do with himself.
Very positive that menopause is much more actively talked about and recognised, especially amongst men/partners. But by god, it doesn't make the supporting role any easier!
An aside - I'd say some of the biggest blockers to proper support/empathy for women who are struggling are other women who by the lottery of biology are not.
How confident are you that this is all attributable to menopause rather than personality?
Sorry, I just re-read that and realise how uncaring that sounded. That wasn't my intent. It sounds awful and, believe me, I know how it feels, you have my sympathy. Best of luck and there will be others with more useful contributions than mine.
my wife is currently enjoying peri-menopause. Its not easy for either party, but as has been said, communication needs to be at the top of the pile.
It helps both parties. When she feels like she doesnt want to be touched, i now know its not me, its the hormones. Plus a million other scenarios.
HRT is a great help. My wife went on it, then came off it (as we both prefer not to put chemicals/medicine in our bodies if we can help it). A while later she went back on it, and realised what a positive affect it had. They will need to find the right balance/one that works for them.
Its a constant roller coaster and does feel at times that she isnt the woman she used to be, but unfortunately thats all part of it. It must suck to be a woman going through it.
I cant really offer a hard and fast solution, other than echoing whats been said above (well the useful replies anyway).
I feel for you. It aint easy for anyone.
This article has a podcast attached, which my wife listened to and said it was worth a listen...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c891kd3q401o
I wish there were, tbh the very idea that male partners could suffer because of menopause is often ridiculed / met with anger online. Suffering shouldn't be competitive.
My partner has been suffering (and I do mean suffering) for 2 years with Perimenopause and after those 2 years of being shouted at, ignored, blamed, accused and taken advantage of I wash at least hoping that the transition to menopause and HRT would make it easier for us both, but it's taken a turn for the worse.
My home life consists of thinking about every word, breath, moment being carefully considered in case it's interpreted at an act of war. I have a sulky teenager for a partner who occasionally grunts at me whilst she sits for hours with the TV in one eye and her mobile in the other. I cook, I clean, I manage every aspect of home. The sweetest request for her to help out a little, take some responsibility for herself is mostly met with extreme anger, but occasionally tears.
I've come very close to popping out for a pint of milk and never coming back so many times.
Been there, but MrsF on HRT and has been a while. She's also come of anti-depressants which was a 'challenge' for a while. Still prone to unreasonable behaviour over simple things. Certainly get's worked up by simple things. Best bet is maybe go to the GP with her and explain what the symptoms are like. HRT will help but it takes time.
The reality was that while it is not my body and I can't understand how it feels, I am the closest person to her and there with her and for her to give the love and support she needs to be able to cope with this.
This absolutely, but it's not all that helpful after a few years of dealing with it, when today I've had an hours sleep (5.30-6.30) having been told around midnight last night that I'm coercive, unsupportive, unemotional, and she doesn't want to be with me. This is after a month of constantly dealing with medical emergencies and near deaths of other close family members and the usual crap that life throws at you. At some point you wonder why everything is about her.
This morning she was tearful and wanted a hug. That's alright then, I'll try not to fall asleep driving into work...
I'm too tired to be any help to anyone, tbh.
My wife's symptoms were mostly brain fog and difficulty concentrating, and the general lack of confidence which comes from that, plus the wonky thermostat and insomnia, and bouts of depression. What I mean to say is that anger wasn't part of it, fortunately.
HRT made a huge difference. A year ago she was thinking about giving up work because it had become so challenging, and just a year later she did so well in interviews that was able to move to really good new role after her previous contract had ended.
So, my experience as a bystander is that HRT is worth persisting with. But I also saw that it took a good GP with an understanding of women's health, and, as we all know, GP appointments of any sort are hard to come by these days.
Worth taking a look at the website of the top UK hormone clinic that has plenty of information for both of you. There will be other clinics in the UK but obviously due diligence is required. Wouldn't do any harm to have private blood tests done, however for something like s$x hormones then a registered practitioner would be necessary..
https://www.mariongluckclinic.com/womens-hormone-health
Does she take part in any activities, exercise classes, hobbies that are of an outdoor pursuit type, sports?
The wife has a horse so she's out of the house a lot. And it doesn't leave much time for 'us' at the weekends. We also have a dog who mainly gets walked solo mainly by me.
She's always had horses since childhood so it's not a new thing.
I think it's causing more issues than it solves though, the wife says it's her release but she goes to the horse straight after work (Mon to Thurs) and eventually arrives back home 9pm ish tired and grumpy. Has some tea, watches a bit of TV with me then it's off to bed.
It sucks huge amounts of time and money out of the relationship so we neither have the time or money to do other things - and other things my wife wants to do on her own, not just with me.
How confident are you that this is all attributable to menopause rather than personality?
Sorry, I just re-read that and realise how uncaring that sounded. That wasn't my intent. It sounds awful and, believe me, I know how it feels, you have my sympathy. Best of luck and there will be others with more useful contributions than mine.
No offence taken! 😀
I know it's not all menopause related - there's a real inability to see how lucky we are in our lifestyle compared to many. We're not minted, we live in small semi-detached. But it's paid for, the cars are paid for and we don't need to think twice about going to the pub for a drink.
Jobs - she's always had issues with work. Not that she's no capable, she's very good, but issues with the people she works with. It usually goes in three year cycles before colleague X,Y or Z is a causing 'trouble' for her. Then the CV gets polished off and away we go again.
We're at that point with the current job despite it being the best paid job she's ever had, it's 10 mins down the road, her boss has a "don't care what hours you do as long as the job is done" attitude, never bats an eyelid at time off for appointments etc.
It is utterly rubbish to feel that you're being tossed on a sea of hormones that you've had a slightly better hold of in the past and wondering when (and at the worst moments whether) you'll get back to feeling more like yourself. It is also scary that some days you feel like you've aged 10 years overnight (and I think I've not had it too bad so far!).
The thing I hold onto is 'this too will pass' - after the first onslaught I realised that there was remission after about 6 weeks, so when I notice that things aren't right I keep a note and promise myself a drs appointment if they persist for more than 6 weeks. Things that 'aren't right' include sore boobs, the mysterious addition of 5kg on the scales (wtf did that come from...), backache, wanting to cry every single day, hot flushes, too hot to sleep (yes, these are separate things), sore bones. It's crap. But it will pass. Finding ways to talk about it help and also noting the start of a new and annoying symptom so that you can be pleased when it stops. Also I guess if it doesn't stop then you have something concrete to deal with. And only dealing with these one at a time seems better than all together!
I suspect many of physical symptoms cause or exacerbate mental health issues - years ago I had bad clinical anxiety for which I went to anxiety management classes. These were surprisingly effective. The most important thing I learned was how we get into feedback loops - we feel anxious, our body does its instinctive physical reaction to threat which is fine occasionally but not continuously... so we start to feel physically ill which then feeds our anxiety. Anyway feeling like you're losing your mind and the body you had is a prime way to loop you into similar anxiety spirals and feel awful.
It can feel too big to deal with - sorry this isn't that helpful but finding ways to talk about it and make it less overwhelming is probably the most useful thing. Conversations with friends help as we all have different experiences and it helps to have perspective. In the nicest possible way, can you get your wife to go and talk to female friends? And tell the GP that she's still feeling bad - HRT is not a one prescription fits all situation from my friends' experiences.
Also look after yourself and make sure you have time to do your own thing and for her to do hers.
Jobs - she's always had issues with work. Not that she's no capable, she's very good, but issues with the people she works with. It usually goes in three year cycles before colleague X,Y or Z is a causing 'trouble' for her. Then the CV gets polished off and away we go again.
Slightly off topic, but... I've got a mate who's like this. Anywhere between 6 months - 3 years, he'll always clash with someone who is doing something that he perceives isn't the 'right' way, or is being unfair in some way (not necessarily towards my friend, just in general), and it will eventually get to the point where he just can't deal with it any more and quits. We're realising that he's really quite neurodivergent, and now in his mid 40s, he's starting to explore potential diagnoses for autism and ADHD (some of this stuff is apparently quite common autistic traits). It would explain a lot.
I dunno if this is any use. Just thought I'd mention.
Clover has put this far more eloquently than I did.
MM - There is no easy answer I'm afraid and it's probably a case of holding on in there until this stage passes (as it will)
The wife has a horse so she's out of the house a lot.
So there's no problem. 😉 The place Madame has a horse is also a campsite, I have on occasion offered to put a caravan or tent on it so she can spend more time there. 🙂 I'm happy to go with the horsey flow. I'm in the riding club, have a group class in the arena once a week, ride the hills with her every ten days or so and join in with some club rides out - they're a good bunch. Tomorrow, a bank holiday here, she's off on her horse with a mate while I'm going out with the roadie club, but we'll spend the morning together.
Joking apart, Madame's menopause was a very temporary thing, a couple of years, we are out the other side now, and all is hunky dory back to normal. Something that helped was walking a lot, especially as a couple, anywhere, everywhere, whenever; time relaxing, chatting and winding down together. No meds necesssary. She's quite stoic and informed rather than complained.
So expect and ignore a little stropiness and bossiness, lend an ear, and get on with life, hopefully won't last long.
I suggest you sit down together and binge watch Riot Women on the iPlayer.
my wife is 61. she thinks she started her menopause around the age of 55. and is still having issues.
brain fog and night flushes are now the norm she says. she says she feels more confrontational too.
to be honest i have not noticed much. we have a strong relationship. we just seem to get on with things well together.
she says that the biggest help has been doing exercise. we walk together, we cycle together and we look after the 4 youngest grandkids together. she says all this keeps her on the up rather than getting down.
she also has a very close strong group of friends who are all the same age and in the same situation. they meet up a couple of times a month for a drink or a meal or a concert. she says it is fantastic having something to look forward to like this.
also, she tried HRT when she first started but it made her ill. she says exercise is the magic key.
Mrs B's started late 40's and is still ongoing 15 years later. I fear whatever 'it' was/is, is now permanent. In our relationship, the impact has been highly damaging and sadly, we're simply not the couple we were.
TBH I always find the word infuriates, we really don’t get a pause and it’s not our fault, this time.
OP I feel your pain and it does pass but meh.
lions mane might be worth looking at. Some people swear by it with solving brain fog and/or migranes. Others think its poppycock.
Could be worth a punt tho.
there was a good thread on this very forum just over 2 years ago; https://singletrackmag.com/forum/off-topic/menopause-and-potential-family-destruction/
My update; HRT was the magic bullet and the last two years I have had my wife/best friend back.
My update; HRT was the magic bullet and the last two years I have had my wife/best friend back.
That's so good to hear.
OP, as mentioned on the thread that @bentandbroken linked to in his post above, there are two different but intersecting issues here: your relationship and your partner's possible menopausal/mental health symptoms.
I've reviewed the advice that I gave on the thread that bentandbroken linked to above and I think that it's still valid in your case as well.
also, she tried HRT when she first started but it made her ill.
There's lots of different HRT medication and it can be a bit of an ordeal working through them to find the one that works best. They all appear to have different side-effects and it's what you partner can tolerate of these that may decide what the GP keeps her on.
The jobs thing does sound very like ADHD, you'll need to pay for that diagnosis though and about £50 to £100 a month for the drugs if you go down this route.
Finally, with my slightly autistic head, on point out that silence and sighs will not work, we don't do telepathy as a sex and pointing out the bleedin' obvious (to her) will be necessary and although her world revolves around her she's not galactic central point and there are lots of other circling orbits that need to be considered (this requires a working adult relationship between you to be a fruitful approach).
Thanks for all the help everyone, really appreciate it.
The wife and I had a 'talk' yesterday morning before work which is what prompted my post. It didn't get nasty, more of an opening up on both sides.
She managed to get into the doctors yesterday (breaking down on the phone helped speed things along she said!) and doc has put her back on the Citalopram, booked her in with the practice menopause councillor on Thursday and also signed her off work for a fortnight. Doctor wants her to carry on with the HRT as well.
The surgery are being very helpful - probably because it's mainly female GPs they seem to be switched on to menopause issues.
We've not sailed through life and have had more downs than ups and perhaps the weight of everything becomes to much eventually. 22yr old Daughter is back home too after 4 years living and working away. This has brought added stress to the household - daughter doesn't really cause issues, but she's an adult now with adult opinions not the child she was when she left.
@bentandbroken - thanks for that thread link. I'll browse that this morning.
Thanks for all the help everyone, really appreciate it.
The wife and I had a 'talk' yesterday morning before work which is what prompted my post. It didn't get nasty, more of an opening up on both sides.
She managed to get into the doctors yesterday (breaking down on the phone helped speed things along she said!) and doc has put her back on the Citalopram, booked her in with the practice menopause councillor on Thursday and also signed her off work for a fortnight. Doctor wants her to carry on with the HRT as well.
The surgery are being very helpful - probably because it's mainly female GPs they seem to be switched on to menopause issues.
We've not sailed through life and have had more downs than ups and perhaps the weight of everything becomes to much eventually. 22yr old Daughter is back home too after 4 years living and working away. This has brought added stress to the household - daughter doesn't really cause issues, but she's an adult now with adult opinions not the child she was when she left.
@bentandbroken - thanks for that thread link. I'll browse that this morning.
Ok that sounds like a promising start, and that you’re both open to solutions which is half the battle IMO.
Mrs B's started late 40's and is still ongoing 15 years later. I fear whatever 'it' was/is, is now permanent. In our relationship, the impact has been highly damaging and sadly, we're simply not the couple we were.
Having joined a FB group for Men with Menopausal partners (that wasn't a nightmare bitter cauldron of women haters) that appears to be the usual way it goes. Some Women are lucky, or have the fortitude to find the right HRT and go back to who they were before, most don't and the only way for them and their partners to get through it was accepting this 'new person' and changing their relationships. Lots of talk of separate sleeping arrangements, (more) separate lives but positives of being with a best friend and still taking time for holidays / nights out and shared activities. It requires work on both sides and the hard part for the female partner is that they often don't feel they want to any longer.
It seems to balance on whether the new relationship works for both of them. Does the Male Partner accept they're very unlikely to have sex again, of at least very, very rarely. Does the Female Partner accept that Menopause isn't an excuse for bad behaviour, outbursts are inevitable, but accepting that's what it was and trying to avoid it or at least apologising after. The hardest ones seems to be that Male Partners feel they've picked up a lot of the 'work' at home, usually over the course of a few years, hoping to win favour with a partner who is withdrawing, and now they accept all of the above, they don't want to anymore. They want a more equitable share of chores and, as tough as it might seem, the ones who share finances with their partners no longer want to.
Mrs B's started late 40's and is still ongoing 15 years later. I fear whatever 'it' was/is, is now permanent. In our relationship, the impact has been highly damaging and sadly, we're simply not the couple we were.
Having joined a FB group for Men with Menopausal partners (that wasn't a nightmare bitter cauldron of women haters) that appears to be the usual way it goes. Some Women are lucky, or have the fortitude to find the right HRT and go back to who they were before, most don't and the only way for them and their partners to get through it was accepting this 'new person' and changing their relationships. Lots of talk of separate sleeping arrangements, (more) separate lives but positives of being with a best friend and still taking time for holidays / nights out and shared activities. It requires work on both sides and the hard part for the female partner is that they often don't feel they want to any longer.
It seems to balance on whether the new relationship works for both of them. Does the Male Partner accept they're very unlikely to have sex again, of at least very, very rarely. Does the Female Partner accept that Menopause isn't an excuse for bad behaviour, outbursts are inevitable, but accepting that's what it was and trying to avoid it or at least apologising after. The hardest ones seems to be that Male Partners feel they've picked up a lot of the 'work' at home, usually over the course of a few years, hoping to win favour with a partner who is withdrawing, and now they accept all of the above, they don't want to anymore. They want a more equitable share of chores and, as tough as it might seem, the ones who share finances with their partners no longer want to.
This is unfortunately the horrible truth in some cases.
I guess it depends on how aware of the changes that are happening. As mentioned, communication is key. And if they are open to solutions to overcome some of the issues it throws up. For example, my wife has just been prescribed some testosterone to help combat the lack of sex drive. She can only use it in tiny amounts, as we dont want her growing a beard and adams apple. But she knows sex is an important way for us to feel close and connect, so is taking the steps to resolve the issue, despite not overly feeling it at the moment (its a bit of a roller coaster!).
Its good that this subject is taken much more seriously these days, as it can be utterly shite. For both parties!
I feel somewhat blessed that my wife is all for trying to get through it as a team and neither of us are suffering in silence.
This is good if tough reading on a subject close to home.
A lot resonates, and MsJimmy has told me I'm getting off lightly - reading all this maybe I am.
How confident are you that this is all attributable to menopause rather than personality?
This is the interesting bit, throw in job stress as well and when all three peak at the same time...
I'm big and strong enough to get through it (a brave statement) but its really our daughter (10) who I feel for when the storm blows through.
ALL of this feels very familiar and Mrs JAG has been going through it for a while.
I'm going to be as honest as I can - so please be sensitive.
We've had numerous arguments, complaints of me not working hard enough for her, not resolving jobs around the house quickly/properly/at all, not getting the washing out of the machine, not getting the washing in when it rains and so on - I'm sure you get the picture. Arguments have descended into shouting, bullying, coersion, damaging stuff and worse. I'm not proud of some of the stuff that I've done or the other things that have happened. I am now very cautious about how to engage with her when these disagreements re-appear. I've learnt to run/walk away if things get bad enough. It's the only thing that stops the disagreement from escalating.
Her Doctor has told her that she will not prescribe HRT due to her family history of Cancer.
We sleep in different rooms and we haven't kissed or even held hands in over 8 years.
We are very close to ending the marriage after 35 years. This bit makes me unhappiest of all.
This hasn't been all her fault.
I can see that my response to some of this has made her feel worse. It has taken me a long time (too long) to recognise the issue and refine my response to minimise the unpleasantness that can follow.
I recognise a lot of the above, doesn't help that the children hit their teenage years around the same time. Unfortunately my wife is suffering a lot, some days fine and some very low. Not sure their is an answer other than to try and ride it out. I worry a lot about what will be left of our relationship and the relationship between her and the kids when the storm is over.
@JAG - a big virtual hug. And recognition that you are not alone in such experience of a partner going through menopause.
An odd one to throw in - we created a menopause policy at work a few years ago. I have had more than one person crying in a job interview that we have such a policy which she could make use of, and that as an organisation we are aware and supportive. I wonder if some of the difficulties experienced is because marriage/partnership is the 'safe place' to express emotions and 'let go', when at work and other places women are expected to 'keep it all together'.
Does the Male Partner accept they're very unlikely to have sex again, of at least very, very rarely.
There are many ways to please each other. 🙂 I think I realised at about age 20 that women's favourite sex act is having their back scratched. 😉
Picking up work around the home I just don't see as an issue, each pulls their weight according to interest, ability and motivation at any stage in the relationship.
As for sharing finances, that's one of the advantages of getting married. Both partners know that whoever does the earning it goes into a common pot so one can take on more child care and chores and the other do more to increase wealth. If anything goes wrong the pot is shared. Our OP's wife has a horse, mine too, the bills are quite impressive, I don't care, she's happy (she's just bounced into the house full of the joys of Autumn and offered to make me a coffee while I'm slobbing in front of this computer having had my legs ripped off by the chain gang - I'll go and light the stove when I've finsihed the coffee so she can slob in front of that) and we can afford it. At menopause age most people have got through the expensive things like kids, their education and buying a home and have less to worry about - though the pension pot thread suggests otherwise as those worrying about it the most seem to have the biggest pots..
As others have noted I can't help feeling that it's not the menopause that's really the issue in many of the couples above but the way the couples work and worked even before the menopause; the unwritten rules and patterns of behaviour that have built up over the years. The dos and don'ts within the couple which feel restrictive and "expectations". A lack of empathy, respect and determination to rise above the daily trials and tribulations from both sides, and just live a bit. A viscious circle, downward spiral even if neither partner has a history of depression. And feeling trapped, couples can afford to live together but know that if they separate they'll both live in poverty.
And us men in all the this "la crise de la cinquantaine". The male thinking "is this it?" All those (with hindsight) missed opportunites. Dissatisfied, weary of work, feeling unattractive, can't be arsed with all this, my missus isn't the woman she was. Well we aren't the men we were either, but we can be our best. And as with anything, if you do your best and still fail at least you gave everything you could.
For those in the think-it-might-only-be-temporary I can add one voice of encouragement. Look around you at the couples around you in their 60s who have got through it and are enjoying a new lease of life. But if it's more than just the menopause that's another thread.
At menopause age most people have got through the expensive things like kids, their education and buying a home and have less to worry about - though the pension pot thread suggests otherwise as those worrying about it the most seem to have the biggest pots..
Would that it were...
At menopause age most people have got through the expensive things like kids, their education and buying a home and have less to worry about -
I think this maybe the nub of why menopause problems are so much worse now. I'm 55 and my wife is 52 and having a very bad time of menopause with many similarities to those posting above. I think the biggest reason for her increased symptoms is financial and mental stress. Even just a couple of decades ago and certainly pre 2000 most couples were winding down in their mid fifties with kids almost off their hands, mortgage mostly paid off and retirement on the horizon. Menopause came hand in hand with a reduction in stress.
Now take our life (and I suspect many on here going through similar problems) - Like many of our generation we had children later after university and now still have two kids at uni with the huge financial burden that comes with it plus the high likelihood of them not being able to afford to move out for several years afterwards. Living in the South East our mortgage was huge and so its obviously not nearly paid off yet and anyway, without a lovely defined benefit pension we aren't going to retire any time soon.
My wife has a high stress job and though its very well paid all our money just seems to disappear in tax and bills. We are not in debt but can't save anything and we are well above average earners. I think we have less disposable income now than at any time in our lives yet are earning the most we ever have.....its not surprising to me that menopause is hitting her harder than it should, she's absolutely knackered from a lifetime of work, worrying about the kids future and knowing she can't stop working at a high level for at least another 10-12 years, probably more.
I suspect many on here going through similar problems
spot on, yes exactly that situation here too, mid/late 50s couple, late teen kids, one away at University, one still at home, mortgage to pay off til I am 67--stretched emotionally, financially, domestically... the bike and the outdoors is my escape
ALL of this feels very familiar and Mrs JAG has been going through it for a while.I'm going to be as honest as I can - so please be sensitive.We've had numerous arguments, complaints of me not working hard enough for her, not resolving jobs around the house quickly/properly/at all, not getting the washing out of the machine, not getting the washing in when it rains and so on - I'm sure you get the picture. Arguments have descended into shouting, bullying, coersion, damaging stuff and worse. I'm not proud of some of the stuff that I've done or the other things that have happened. I am now very cautious about how to engage with her when these disagreements re-appear. I've learnt to run/walk away if things get bad enough. It's the only thing that stops the disagreement from escalating.
Jobs - she's always had issues with work. Not that she's no capable, she's very good, but issues with the people she works with. It usually goes in three year cycles before colleague X,Y or Z is a causing 'trouble' for her. Then the CV gets polished off and away we go again.
We're at that point with the current job despite it being the best paid job she's ever had, it's 10 mins down the road, her boss has a "don't care what hours you do as long as the job is done" attitude, never bats an eyelid at time off for appointments etc.
I've read the Davina book and several others about three times, tried my best to be supportive and encouraging. We've done months of marriage coucilling but there is a complete brick wall when it comes to accepting there is any issue with her. When she decided we should seperate, once i had got over the initial sadness the overarching feeling is relief.
I can empathise. I appreciate that as a bloke rather than going through it directly I've got it comparatively easy, but **** me it's hard work.
This is a typical exchange, from yesterday. I'd accidentally kicked over the cats' water fountain, went to clean up and the mop is one of these modern "flannel on a pole" affairs which is of little use for cleaning up 2L of water I've just sluiced across the floor. I shouted through to my partner in the other room, "have we got a mop that's actually a mop?"
"I'm not answering that."
Erm. What? Why?
"You talk to me like I'm a piece of shit."
I... asked you if we had a mop? 🤷♂️
"have we got a mop that's actually a mop?"
"I'm not answering that."
Erm. What? Why?
"You talk to me like I'm a piece of shit."
Our argument on Sunday evening was fairly similar, involving her shouting up about whether the front door was locked or not while standing next to that door, which I answered civilly until I lost my patience after an ongoing exchange about why I hadn't checked whether the front door was locked. (I was in bed feeling very rough!) Two and a half hours later I was sleeping downstairs, still unaware whether the door was locked or not, still feeling rough and now very, very unhappy with my life choices. 😀
I... asked you if we had a mop?
Reading between the lines, and I may be wrong, it reads like you did a little more than that?
"have we got a mop that's actually a mop?"
I'm guessing that means your partner, not you bought the mop which you are clearly unhappy with? ("flannel on a pole" affair which is of little use"). Phrasing that question in that way does I'm afraid sound a little sarccy, critical and judgemental. And possibly, to someone on the receiving end who isn't in the best frame of mind that you are talking to them like they are a POS? I very much doubt that you meant to, but that kind of sarcasm can wear people down, especially if they are vulnerable hormonally.
I'm honestly not trying to be an arse, nor underestimate how frustrating these exchanges can be for both parties (39 years married). I've definitely been guilty of similar and had to pull myself up for it. It sometimes takes an impartial onlooker to give you perspective on how your words can come across.
And therin lies the problem, Cougar. You don't even know if there's a mop that's actually a mop in the house. I know my mops perfectly, we've got the stringy type with a telescopic handle, two of them. They're cheaper and work better than the flappy sponge things. But for 2 litres I'd get down on my hands and knees with the absorbant car wash sponge. 🙂
66 hilly km on the roadie tandem today. Perfect harmony, I didn't once comment on how hard she was pedalling and the destination was the Lindt factory shop. 😉
Back on topic, the menopause arrives at different ages. For one of our neighbours it was 35. Madame was relatively late with a start at 52, the two worst years around 56 and then zilch - normal.
I'm with Cougar on this one - my better half has a maddening habit of using the wrong term for stuff that there's no wrong term for. The most egregious is 'charger', which can variously mean plug, USB cable, or power bank. I'm just supposed to guess which one she means, I suppose?
Phrasing that question in that way does I'm afraid sound a little sarccy, critical and judgemental.
Yeah, that jumped out at me too. If I was feeling tired and shit, I wouldn't want to have to unpack what the questioner's definition of 'a real mop' is, and how it differs from the mop in the kitchen, before answering their snark.
(And if my partner really was that unfamiliar with the basic cleaning amenities of the house we share, I'd probably become further disheartened)
The issue here is if these things happened in isolation, it's easy to rationalise, empathise, turn the other cheek, suck it up, laugh it off - whatever.
But these exchanges are usually against a backdrop of years of escalating friction and aggravation. Ours follows a 3 exchange cadence. By the 3rd exchange, there are raised voices etc. I've run out of patience and understanding. It's a finite resource and sadly, it's all been used up.
A lot of sympathy for all those also trying to navigate this minefield. It seems to hit women at a point when life gets more complicated with teenagers or kids leaving home, elderly parents, career pressures, and in our case, existing and deteriorating disability issues, and my own mental health battles.
We don't have rows, we never have. We have a great range of tutting, side eye and huffing, and an ability to make me feel like shit for little reason.
Luckily we have a bed big enough that we can avoid each other in comfort.
This thread... The common ground is both reassuring and slightly depressing.
Agree, but equally it's making me realise I've got it relatively easy compared to some of you!! 😬😬
Certainly puts a different perspective on things.
Wishing everyone the best!!
Reading between the lines, and I may be wrong, it reads like you did a little more than that?
I take your point. And yeah, I could've worded it better. But there was no previous, it's not like we'd been arguing earlier. I'd kept out of her way all day and was making her tea.
And therin lies the problem, Cougar. You don't even know if there's a mop that's actually a mop in the house. I know my mops perfectly,
and
(And if my partner really was that unfamiliar with the basic cleaning amenities of the house we share, I'd probably become further disheartened)
Historically, I've always done the mopping. Like, my whole life, well prior to my current relationship. When we moved in together the mops which came to the new place were mine. She promptly replaced them all and took over that detail. Which is fine, if she wants to do it and wants to use tools she prefers then who am I to argue. What subsequently happened to mine I have no idea and up until two days ago had little reason to care, they might have been tossed out (one certainly was) or could have been stuffed in the cellar (I've spoken about 'hidey tidy' before).
The implication that I'm so lacking in the housework department that I doesn't know one end of a mop from the other isn't justified I'm afraid.
Holy crap, I just read someone being sanctimonious about they're "mop knowledge"
It's not Audi Estates and Wood Burning stoves that's peak STW anymore. I wonder when it's going to progress to "what Sanatogen for the over 70s".
So mops and tidy-tidy were already an issue, Cougar. You weren't just asking her if there was a mop that was actually a mop, you touched a nerve:
You were acusing her of throwing away your beloved old mop that's actually a mop without asking (you would be justifiably annoyed), accusing her of having lousy taste in mops (she might find that annoying), accusing her of having an irritiating habit of hiding things rather than putting them away where they should be (I sympathise with you this one really is annoying) which was reviving an on-going dispute.
So her reaction was a mixture of defence and the best form of it, attack. Possibly. 🙂
The alternative was saying nothing and mopping up the 2 litres with the washing-up sponge or using her lousy mop. Then making her a cup of tea and asking if there's anything she'd like when you go shopping tomorrow and is there anything that's priority when you do the laundry, and if she fancies sex it's her turn on top.
Not just ladies of a certain age who are having hormonal issues and mood swings. Calm down dears.
Not naming names, but there does seem to be an element of passive aggression in some of the responses on this thread.
Not naming names, but there does seem to be an element of passive aggression in some of the responses on this thread.
Are you new here?
Well Cougar's mopgate is a good example of how the most trivial shite becomes the biggest bone of contention/hill to die on. Good will and tolerance are eroded to the point where the most mundane discussion can suddenly erupt into a full blown row.
It's obviously on both sides, but the ability to soak it up and turn the other cheek diminishes over time (IME). This means the most trivial things that would just pass before, are escalated into world ending issues.
It's very, very damaging and difficult to recover from. It's not like you knowingly married the person that they have become. In fact, it's possible you'd have avoided them like the plague but here you are, sympathising, understanding and sucking it up. If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
It's very, very damaging and difficult to recover from. It's not like you knowingly married the person that they have become. In fact, it's possible you'd have avoided them like the plague but here you are, sympathising, understanding and sucking it up. If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
But there's the rub. You ride out the storm in the hope that it will pass and the person you love comes back. If they don't, you discover you probably can't afford to walk at this stage in life.
It's very, very damaging and difficult to recover from. It's not like you knowingly married the person that they have become. In fact, it's possible you'd have avoided them like the plague but here you are, sympathising, understanding and sucking it up. If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
But there's the rub. You ride out the storm in the hope that it will pass and the person you love comes back. If they don't, you discover you probably can't afford to walk at this stage in life.
Amen.
Even just a couple of decades ago and certainly pre 2000 most couples were winding down in their mid fifties with kids almost off their hands, mortgage mostly paid off and retirement on the horizon. Menopause came hand in hand with a reduction in stress.LOL, if i'd have stayed n my first job, i'd have been retiring in 3 or 4 years according to the current rules, in my mid 50's. On 80% of my final salary. (They closed the scheme a month after i joined).
As it is, my mortgage still has 24 years to run, the earliest i could afford/be allowed to retire (based on current projections) is 63 or 64 (against a state age of 67). My kids won't be leaving home for another 10 years. My partner is going through the early stages of perimenopause with a very aggressive 11 year old in the house and the less said about her ex partner the better. So she's on a hair trigger a lot of the time. She has also missed about 15 years of pension contributions due to the nature of her work/study. And her research group has officially entered it's last 18-24 months before it's wound up.
So stress is off the charts. For both of us.
I've got it relatively easy compared to some of you!!
Did I say this already, too? I've been told "I've got it easy in this department". I wasn't in the mood to hear that at the time, but can probably appreciate that. Thing is, its not consistent - some weeks (generally weekends actually) are just unbearable. A day or two later, its like nothing happened but I'm still reeling / scarred from it which makes "being friends" hard in the good times because I'm still processing the maelstrom.
Just replying so i can subscribe to this. Going through the mill at the moment. Depression ME and HRT all involved so its nice (not in a want others to suffer but more im not going mad) to see others having to navigate this as well.
HRT + MDMA. Sorry not very helpful but it seems to work for us. 🙂
(It also helps that my Mrs is borderline ADHD and is so ridiculously busy that I hardly see her)
So mops and tidy-tidy were already an issue, Cougar. You weren't just asking her if there was a mop that was actually a mop, you touched a nerve:
Mops have never been an issue, I just let her crack on. I couldn't care less.
Hidey-tidy, yes, absolutely, and if you'd have said "where have you hidden my ****ing mop" I'd agree with you.
if she fancies sex
Se... no, you've lost me, sorry. We held hands yesterday?
Wow.
I thought it was just me.
+1 to most of the above.
I once tried "if I said to you, what you just said to me, then you would explode" after being spoken to like shoot. Reader: it did not defuse the situation.
Head down.
Carry on.
Try and find some points of occasional light in the gloom.
Noone to talk to about this.
The (now adult) children see lots of this, but I can't undermine their relationship with her, or talk to them about this at all.
And therin lies the problem, Cougar. You don't even know if there's a mop that's actually a mop in the house.
With Ed on this one. You should really know what cleaning materials exist in your house. It's a bit like asking how the dishwasher or washing machine works. I suspect the response was less to do with the menopause and more to do with a lifetime of feeling like she's the handmaid? Or next time it happens just respond with "Me Man! Earn money. You Woman! Do the cleaning'. 😀
Those that have partners that are having a really torrid time of it, are they actively looking at the solutions, help, advice and work arounds. Or just letting it happen and trying to see it through?
As if they arent trying to help themselves, its unlikely you can help them. Which sucks.
The dishwasher logistics were too complicated, I wash up by hand. I quite like using the washing machine, it's easier than fishing tissues out of the pump and picking the white flecs off clothes. 🙂It's a bit like asking how the dishwasher or washing machine works.
Thing is, its not consistent - some weeks (generally weekends actually) are just unbearable.
Seasonal too IME I've just confirmed with the lady concerned that hot flushes were a Winter thing. Summers I remember being largely stress free.
If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
This might be unpopular, and I'm not specifically making this comment in relation to the menopause.
There is a whole bunch of excuse-making going on in our culture generally and it needs calling out.
I am not disputing that your medical condition, mental health, or background childhood buried trauma is real and is affecting you.
But it does not give you an excuse to act like an absolute ****
There's only so long people's patience is going to last, especially if you refuse to take responsibility for your behaviour and do nothing about sorting it out and/or refuse help when offered.
I'm not all anti woke - but some people just take the absolute piss and use it as an excuse for themselves. It's not acceptable.
Where on earth does "woke" come into this? What a weird thing to say.
Well maybe it's the wrong word but you know what I mean, and that's a bit unnecessarily snappy eh?
Pot, kettle etc.
We thought that HRT was all the same, but the pharamacist ran out of the prescribed one so gave Mrs N a different one which was way better, have now changed the prescription. Watching Riot Women on the tv is a good opportunity to have a laugh about it.
There's only so long people's patience is going to last, especially if you refuse to take responsibility for your behaviour and do nothing about sorting it out and/or refuse help when offered.
What happens if the person with the problem is unable to be responsible? A bit of compassion and empathy wouldn't go amiss.
To clarify, I'm not saying there should be no patience and understanding at all.
I absolutely agree that people do have problems that affect them and do need compassion and help. But if it goes on for an extended time, and the person in question doesn't respond to any help you are offering, does not maybe even see it even as a problem they have to grapple with your help, and also acts (as above) in what could be seen as an abusive manner towards you...
...then at some point you are going to have to start to think about prioritising yourself.
Edit: what you consider to be an extended period of time, or what constitutes abuse and how much you can put up with, is a personal thing. And it's probably being clear in your own mind, for decision making, what those boundaries actually are, for you.