You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
My wife has been up and down with age related hormone changes and before that minor thyroid troubles.
She's now on HRT and has less physical troubles but cognitively ..well .. she's not much fun to be around .
It's a shame as an argument seems to arise from nowhere and she is unable to have a rational discussion .. it's always emotion driven so making decision , having a relaxed normal conversation is not easy these days. She was never a good communicator but has gone downhill a lot . I've been a pain in the past with drink ( now tea total ) so I guess it's my turn to become more tolerant but it isn't easy and I actually have begun to like her less although I know the reasons. We've been together 25 yrs and splitting up is neither a possibility for complex reasons and tbh not something hopefully either of us would want .
Your experiences,tips etc would be appreciated
Cheers
Bill
just getting a front row seat for the comments
This is a great opportunity to show her how much you love her, these ups and downs are what makes relationships stronger.
Both my wife and I have been through things that have impacted our 'mood' (her stroke, me brain surgery) and we can kind of recognise when we are being irrational/overly sensitive/unreasonable etc.
I actually have begun to like her less although
Begun to like her less or begun to like the way she can sometimes be because of this thing that is out of her control less? Menopause is tough.
Hopefully this thread isn't related to a more sinister plan!
I’ve no direct experience but recently attended a work course run by the SWDF called Men in the Menopause or something like that. That followed one of my staff phoning me to tell me, in far greater detail than was necessary or desirable, that she had started the menopause. The course was actually really good - one lady telling about 80 initially stony faced blokes all about the biological and behavioural aspects of the menopause, but done with a lot of humour and a lot of reassurance. It was, and was intended to be, as relevant to home life as it was to work life. Her summary was along the lines of ‘we [women] will be [more] irrational and scatterbrained for a while, and probably a bit of a ratbag, but it’s just a phase, it doesn’t mean we don’t love you anymore, just be patient’.
Don’t know if that’s any help.
Think what it is like for her.
What worked for Julie and I was to have a stop word / phrase. For us it was" ok reset a mo" to stop rows escalating
You need to take your emotional response out of the equation
If men got menopause then there would be much better research, understanding and treatment
Tagging thread! 😬
Be there for her when she needs you, but retreat to the Mancave when necessary. There's no point in starting, maintaining, or trying to win any arguments. Doesn't do anyone any favours.
Be there for her when she needs you, but retreat to the Mancave when necessary.
I'd say this is key - both parts. Having some empathy that this is not all of her making specifically to make your life unpleasant but at the same time not resorting to being a verbal punching bag taking hit after hit because its the right thing to do. That way lies dragons. Retreat is sometimes the path to harmonious coexistence, better than soaking it up or giving it back.
You'll need to google but there are some good podcasts out there. For both of you. I'm not sure from what you have typed but she might not be as clued up as she could be too. Her understanding herself might also help her understand the relationship she is having with you and why.
Finally - there is no such thing as HRT. Or rather by that I mean, there are so many different HRT medications and not all are great for everyone. Some lazy GPs (and the current shortage of some medication) can mean the experimentation of what works for an individual (or even checking back to see if it is working) is very very lacking.
Excellent. 8 replies in to a medical question thread and we have “lazy GPs”
You will really really miss us when we’ve all gone.
Excellent. 8 replies in to a medical question thread and we have “lazy GPs”
You will really really miss us when we’ve all gone.
To be fair, I prefaced it with "some". And some are, sorry. It would be amazing for any profession not to have at least 'some' lazy members. On this issue especially as has been identified in reports. I'll see if I can dig it out for you. Oh, and this is the opinion of a female gp relative, so don't shoot the messenger.
Some great ideas and responses so far .. I make the mistake that I believed if I speak rationally about subjects she will respond fairly but it doesn't work so I get frustrated and somewhat annoyed and almost hold it against her. She has always been stubborn but that trait has increased no manner of discussion gets anywhere ( often ) . I am realizing the retreat option + safe word are good options . Keep them coming !
Agree with everything she says and then do what you want anyway, no point in arguing about things in the future.
Don't argue about things in the past.
Be aware when you add things to the convo that will antagonize, generalisations like adding 'like you always do' to the end of 'you haven't done this' - have a conversation about her trying to do the same. If she does, bite your lip and ignore it.
My wife wnet through this a couple of years ago ( & fwiw GP wasnt v helpful)
Im not going to lie, it was tough going, I definitely felt we were a different couple from the one we had been a few years before.
Things have settled down now and shes in a much better place, so just be as tolerant as you can and ride things out, it will get better ime!
I am now at that certain age and over the last year have been taking HRT to manage the symptoms I’ve been experiencing. These include feelings of anxiety about situations which wouldn’t normally bother me, insomnia and low mood. I would regularly fly off the handle and it did affect my relationship with my husband to the point now where he walks away if I start getting radgey. The HRT has helped massively and its a gradual process of getting some normality back. To get some better understanding it’s worth watching the davina McCall documentary. It is hard and I know several friends who struggle with menopause. On Facebook I’m in a group called miss menopause which will help your wife realise she’s not alone and could be of some help.
I'm not sure it makes much sense to treat menopause as an illness.
50% of the population experience it as part of a natural process.
Suggest she investigates transdermal progesterone. I ditched HRT and used that.
Scoffer. Its not an illness and not treated as such. Its a treatable condition poorly researched and poorly understood. Not all women get the same effects either
By your logic no need for viagra for all thr older men who can no longer get it up? Thats a natural part of aging.
I’m not sure it makes much sense to treat menopause as an illness.
50% of the population experience it as part of a natural process.
Who said anything about treating it as an illness? The bulk of the narrative around it is simply to recognise that it's a thing - that's why there are women marching for better treatment, why TV shows are being made about it and why MPs are feeling it necessary to raise the issue in parliament.
I'm rolling through this with my wife.
Its been pretty unpleasant. I seem to be public enemy number one and none of my thoughts, opinions and actions are acceptable.
I recognise alot of retrogirl's symptoms in her.
It got to the point that I would only speak when spoken to because that was the best of a bad situation.
I feel like we're further apart than ever and its damaged the way I feel about her. I'm desperately sad about that.
@convert funnily enough my wife is a menopausal gp. Completely exhausted by the unmanageable workload and unmeetable expectations of the public, media, government etc. Of course there are lazy people in all professions but it seems only our profession has the insult aimed at us on such a regular basis. It fair trips of the tongue doesn’t it? Daily mail headline writers job complete… you trotted out their message.
you trotted out their message.
actually I trotted out the words of my GP female relative, but never mind.
Yes - GPs do have a rough deal on many levels. A greying population with increasing ailments who (thanks so medical advancement) are not as inclined to die as they once were so need ongoing care, taking an increased slice of a static (or worse) pie. Add a professional income making them a great punching bag for the fiscally jealous and a world less reverent and inclined towards 'experts' and you've got quite the cocktail.
But on this issue I defer to my far more qualified female relative and do believe a lot of GPs could be taking it more seriously and could be doing a better job of keeping up with the research. It's not a niche issue.
That Davina McCall programme about menopause is excellent, so informative. Some of the stats they come up with - how many women lose jobs, friends, husbands due to it is quite staggering.
I lost touch with my partner/girlfriend/whatever you like to call her, a lot was down to the menopause... Don't judge me, I tried to be supportive, but she didn't wanna know in the end!! Been trying to contact her again and she just ignores me 🙁
only our profession has the insult aimed at us on such a regular basis
Hhahaha
Academics in their ivory towers
Corrupt police officers
Lazy leftist civil servants
Inconsiderate railway employees constantly on strike
etc.
only our profession has the insult aimed at us on such a regular basis
Try working in a planning department or local government in general. All loved and treasured on a daily basis 😂
My wife is also starting to struggle and says she is peri-menopausal. Shes had issues as long as I've known her with irregular, heavy and painful periods, but hasn't managed to resolve any of that.
I know she worried about how bad things could get from her experiences of others, but she's not keen on HRT or the equivalent.
It's hard as I have various issues, so when one is up and the other is down one can support the other. But when were both down at the same time it's not much fun.
It got to the point that I would only speak when spoken to because that was the best of a bad situation.I feel like we’re further apart than ever and its damaged the way I feel about her. I’m desperately sad about that.
In a way this is our lives at the minute too. The fun has gone out of things.
It's the logic issue I struggle with, so I shut down rather than argue. Then the accusations of being dull and never talking come back at you.
Little example - last Sunday morning the wife goes to her horse and spends 4+ hours riding and doing horsey things. I spend the morning fixing a fence, other small jobs and walking the dog. She comes home early afternoon and I'm in front of the telly watching the F1 (as I've done for the 30+ years we've been married). The face comes on and no hello or anything, just a 'are you in front of that f*cking telly again'.
And rather than enjoying the sunshine she proceeds - in the peak heat - to dig up a huge bush we've been talking about moving (and agreed to do later that evening when it's cooler). All the while I can tell she's seething, getting hot, chucking branches around and swearing as I'm still watching the F1. I'm now at the sod-it stage so let her stew. And then barely a word spoken all afternoon and evening.
She's out of the house a lot with the horse but the jobs I do while she's out 'haven't happened' she only sees what's in front of her at the moment.
We'll get through it - we've been through worse. But you do feel like you don't really matter. We exist at the minute rather than live.
She's very much her mothers daughter too (old school country girl, so no fussing or faffing), and a visit to the doctor would be a 'waste of time'.
I manage 3 menopausal women and have a post menopause wife. I really enjoyed my bike rides home before I got sick last month!
We talk lots and I ask that the staff let me know when the fog has rolled into their brains. That way I'm not a monster and we get things done in a more effective manner.
Mrs S has lost most of her brain fog due to her HRT but the last GP she spoke to (a younger woman) was less than helpful with some ongoing problems. HRT has returned the woman I married who I thought was retreating from me, which is fabulous. I've had to up my game a little as things slid a bit when she was sub-par.
Hopefully the OP will be able to adjust to the new improved wife.
Of course there are lazy people in all professions but it seems only our profession has the insult aimed at us on such a regular basis.
I appreciate that it might be a sore subject, and rightly so, but I'd respectfully suggest that there may be a degree of confirmation bias going on here. There's plenty of other professions that routinely and usually unfairly get a kicking, teachers leap to mind for one. You can't deny though that there will always be good and bad doctors just as there will be teachers, builders, IT technicians, shop assistants, car mechanics... the common denominator here is "people."
And, yes, we're in a similar position. It's horrendous, it's like PMT turned up to 11. I'm struggling, I can only imagine what she must be going through.
No patience. No energy. Sex drive down the toilet. Snappy and aggressive. Sudden weight gain (not that I mind, I love her and fancy her as what shape she is, but it makes her sad). All the diametric opposite of the woman I fell in love with.
One weird symptom I've not come across before is that she's turned into Immediate Girl. Like, she'll ask me to do something, I'll say sure, and if I've not jumped up inside of ten seconds then she gets antsy about it. Conversely I'll remind her of something and she'll be like "CAN'T YOU SEE I'M DOING THIS?!" - uh, yes, I didn't mean right this very second, I was just putting it on your radar for later...?!
She's currently on a waiting list to be put on a waiting list for some consultancy or other, she'll likely be out the other side of it all by the time she actually receives any help.
One weird symptom I’ve not come across before is that she’s turned into Immediate Girl.
That's my wife too! She thinks every question is a demand, not just a question. 🙂
Our daughter is driving to Cornwall on Friday, she's 19 and it's her first really big drive.
My wife deals with all insurances as she works in insurance - so I ask the wife...
[i]me) Has Bec got the details of the road rescue and phone number just in case?
wife) I emailed it to her last Oct when I renewed the insurance.
me) Might be worth checking she's got the right number in her phone as I know it's changed?
(I don't know this number as I haven't dealt with it).
wife) [snappily and annoyed now] Well I emailed it to her!
me) Yes, but I don't want her trying to find a random number in a load of emails at the side of the road if she's broken down. Could you just check before she goes? (not meaning right away).[/i]
Wife then launches into a rant about me wanting her to do things straight away and about me being over protective and not believing she sent the emails. It was just a simple question that needed a simple response.
...sorry, I'm using this thread as a sounding board now!
At last the menopause is being talked about by the new generation, who are not frightened to hide the subject.
Patience and time is the answer. We females will all go through this with different symptoms. Some of these symptoms may go quickly, some may stay for years on end.
Having been through it myself I was lucky in that exercise was the key. Just doing as much as possible and being outdoors. Hubby was unbelievably patient.
Hormones are rife, feeling old and unloved, brain fog, memory loss, changes in one's face and figure also add to the pressure of feeling out of control sometimes.
Please chaps, read and educate yourselves, because it really is an unpleasant time in a woman's life and not something that just 'goes away', (well not for a while).
Some women I know have been quite poorly and other's have got through and not suffered too much.
Good luck everyone.
TBH ..although I started the thread it sounds ..compared to others ,that my wife actually isn't too bad in the spectrum of frustrating behaviours. One thing that has got "up my nose" so as to speak has been her reluctance to admit the hormonal changes have affected her more than the physical side although it's quite obvious. Being open and honest has always been important to me , as has talking about feelings but if she detects the slightest possibility of a criticism ..in any way shape or form ..whether it's for her benefit or not then she will immediately become defensive .
I am thinking seriously of doing a sponsored silence for a month ( I actually feel more at peace when not having to talk and she probably thinks the same ) ..everyone will benefit and we won't be able to argue !
Scoffer. I know you are a contrarian but thats a new low.
Mrs TJ and thus I got away quite lightly. She was perimenopausal for many years but over the menopause quickly. Only thing that really got to me was she grew an impressive moustache. One of the very few times in our relationship that I put my foot down. The Mexican bandito look just didn't work for me
The Doctor featured in the Davina McCall programme is Dr. Louise Newson at Newson Health in Stratford Upon Avon. She's doing wonderful things for the treatment of the menopause. There are many articles and interviews with her, might be worth a Google or even an appointment there.
we’re told that discriminating against women at work is wrong
We're not "told it's wrong." It's illegal.
I know you and I disagree politically and that's fine. We can have political 'bants,' we're all adults here. But posts seriously complaining that you can't discriminate against women any more, well, it's not menopausal women who are the unhinged ones now here now is it.
Jesus Christ. I can't quite digest what I've just read.
I wouldnt say going through it is the correct term for me. Me and my wife are experiencing some humdinger arguments at the moment and i suppose some of it is because she is going through the menopause at present.
I dont give a hoot how difficult it gets, i love every bit of her and see it as another thing we have to work through. Like my own mood swings, my petulance and my frequent farts. There are times we speak different languages and i seriously cannot fathom wtf she is going on about but we have an understanding that if one of us says enough, we both back away and give things time to settle. I am quite happy to apologise, moreso than she is.
In the end, whatever she needs, i am happy to help. I want her for the rest of my life, not for the next 6 months.
👏👏
I scoff cake is Jacob Reece Mogg and I claim my 5 pounds.
Davina Mcall and Doctor Louise Newsome are really doing amazing things for women experiencing perimenopause and menopause. Perimenopause is the bit where you still have periods but can be experiencing all sorts of symptoms and can last up to 10 years! Menopause is when you haven't had a period for a year. For women suffering I would recommend downloading the balance app from Dr Newsome. It's free, full of info and can be used to track your symptoms and prepare a report for the GP.
I think as women are now an equal part of society and expected to work into old age that we certainly deserve all the help we can get. In 'the olden days' a lot less women worked and those that did got to retire earlier than men. I'm all for the equality but as many women will suffer with symptoms that affect their work they deserve the support to alleviate them. After all keeping women in work and with better productivity will pay for the extra costs to the NHS.
The stats on how many women leave their careers early due to menopause currently are scary.
Well said hobo
Wondering if OH is menopausal...
Mrs STR had early menopause in her early 40's - it wasn't fun. GP refused to accept it and wouldn't prescribe HRT. In turn, the lack of HRT has contributed to severe osteo arthritis (2 new hips and the rest). I'm glad for others it's getting more recognition now
I can deal with it. However my worry are my 2 young boys. They struggle to understand what’s happened to their mummy.
I'm with Hobo. Tho my OH has also just given up the weed, so might be a little bumpier over the next couple of weeks
Women can typically go through the menopause between the ages of 45 - 55.
Average age for the menopause is 52.
At a guess I think many on STW will have their female partner (or even a relative) going through this if not now, in the near future.
Support is key. Knowing that this isn't for ever.
It's hard to know what's happening to our bodies and minds when going through the menopause.
I know for a fact that future generations of women will have better knowledge, support and ability to understand that this time in their lives can be a little easier to get through than in the past.
Even though I barely touch my bike at the moment, it's threads like this that keep me coming back.
Mrs.Willies had been perimenopausal probably just after the birth of our daughter ten years ago and it's dragged on since. Coupled with ongoing depression, fybromyalgia, it's been pretty rough for both of us. She's recently started oestrogen and that seems to be doing something, but I totally recognise all of the symptoms that have been outlined above and the effects on the relationships. The hardest part for me to deal with has been the feeling of being incapable if doing anything right.
LOL at i_scoff_cake sitting at work trying to do his job to the best of his abilities, but suffering from impotence. You may wish to consider your analogy there. Not judging.
Am i the only one who gets extremely confused when my wife starts discussing the drugs etc that are available and what they do.
I dont switch off. I sit and try my best to listen but its like something turns off and i dont understand it all. I know she had some drugs off the doctor at the start of covid and i know she had some pretty bad effects from it. It was like she was bleeding to death. She eventually got an appointment and was taken off them. It was about a year later when she has built up the courage to revisit and now she has a different perscription which she seems happy with. Talked to me about dates and when she should be taking them. Honestly, i hate her having to take anything, but i hate it even more not understanding what the hell she is talking about when she is trying to explain.
I know there is loads of info for women about but from a blokes perspective it may help for me/us to have some understanding of whats going on so we can be a bit more supportive.
LOL at i_scoff_cake sitting at work trying to do his job to the best of his abilities, but suffering from impotence.
I guess his impotence has effected him to the extent he is in a permanent rage about everything? 🙄🤣
I guess his impotence has effected him to the extent he is in a permanent rage about everything? 🙄🤣
Everyone, male or female, feels impotent sometimes. It's me against The Man, and The Man is winning. I don't want to take tablets for that sort of impotence. 😀
I guess his impotence has effected him to the extent he is in a permanent rage about everything? 🙄🤣
Awful thing to say. It's "affected him".
Anyway, all part of life's rich tapestry yukky periods/sweaty menopause, can't say I'm a fan really but waddyagonna do? At least these are cyclical/temporary whereas testosterone fueled twittery is more of an ongoing issue (though I've calmed down a lot through my later 50s).
I’m rolling through this with my wife.
Its been pretty unpleasant. I seem to be public enemy number one and none of my thoughts, opinions and actions are acceptable.
I recognise alot of retrogirl’s symptoms in her.
It got to the point that I would only speak when spoken to because that was the best of a bad situation.
I feel like we’re further apart than ever and its damaged the way I feel about her. I’m desperately sad about that.
This is very much how my life is too.
Men and those with male partners might also have a read of this https://www.baus.org.uk/patients/conditions/7/male_menopause_androgen_deficiency_in_the_ageing_male
Please have empathy with the people around you, there are times when we all need some understanding 🙂
We both found the Davina McCall programmes really helpful to understand what was going on for my wife and that makes a huge difference. Recommended
One weird symptom I’ve not come across before is that she’s turned into Immediate Girl.
That’s my wife too! She thinks every question is a demand, not just a question.
Interesting, this has been a noticeable thing in the few months Chez Morecash.
"Immediate Girl" requires some careful choice of words to emphasise that the thing needs doing but not now, it needs to go on the long list. I can confirm that this is a difficult skill to master and there is invariably friction as the male of the partnership works out what causes no reaction while flagging that a non-urgent job needs doing.
Good luck to those just starting out on this phase of married life. I can also recommend the Davina programmes they were a revelation to me.
To be honest, we didn't really manage it too well. Didn't even consider it at the time so went through a number of unpleasant and bitter moments. We have kind of come through it and I regret that I wasn't really able to handle it or support her as well as she deserved. The real "killer" in this is actually the perimenopause as that's where the bulk of the mood changes, woolly head, "different woman", dark times happen. Although it was pop TV (and deliberately so, I reckon) the Davina Macall programme really was excellent. Thoroughly recommend watching it - chaps especially so that you have a chance of being better prepared and more understanding. Probably no coincidence that menopause and mid-life crisis happen at roughly similar times and between them probably account (or historically anyway) for a significant number of divorces and separations. Along with the other suggestion ^^ regarding Louise Newsom - she really has done some stellar work. Check the web site out. There is no single HRT treatment (again, pointed out further up the thread) and all women are different. There really is no "one size fits all" solution so it may be a bit of trial and error.
The comment about "lazy GPs". It is probably more accurate to say that there are a lot of GPs who have not had any training in the menopause and therefore it is more likely to be ignorance. Again, one of the things the Newsome trust have been doing is to try and get at least one menopause trained specialist in each doctors surgery. This is something that is likely to affect fully half the population, for a significant period of time. It's easy to focus just on the "hot flushes" and think that's all there is to it. Every woman will experience it in a different way. Some will get lucky and breeze through it. For some it will be life crippling as they will feel they have turned into a complete monster that they don't recognise. And it is true - if this had been something that affected men then you can bet there would have been plenty of research done into it with all sorts of potions, ointments and drugs to treat it. It is a chastening thing for us blokes but let's support and encourage the positive developments that have begun to happen and the removal of the shame of the menopause.
Oh, most of this thread is so so familiar sounding, except my wife flat refuses to even consider HRT, in fact when mentioned it brings on one of those "discussions" where logic is taken out, shot, tied to the back of a truck and dragged over cobbles.
...my wife flat refuses to even consider HRT
That changed for us following the Davina McCall programmes, YMMV
On HRT. As some might know my wife was diagnosed with cancer 12 months ago, now clear. On going through possible causes, prolonged HRT was high on the list. No proof of course, just a probability. It's worth thinking about, especially trying to reduce the length of the treatment, as once started it can be too easy to delay ending it.
Scotroutes is right, HRT isn't a magic bullet that works in isolation and has no other implications. There are so many variables and issues to balance; while it can improve mood, confidence, concentration, sex drive, it doesn't always and that has to be balanced with the risk that some treatments raise, for example the slightly raised risk of breast cancer. Trial and error is a common feature of treatments and an understanding GP is an important part of the process. And a lot of patience from the partners. Our household has been a stormy place to be at times and is a different place to how it was about 5 years ago. My partner has chosen not to start HRT, as yet and at 58 hopes not to. But that decision still has implications and for both of us.