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I’ve had to stand and watch a lad using a ratchet spanner incorrectly.
No , you didn’t need to remove it every 90 degrees of rotation and reposition it , it’s on a ratchet that lets it freely rotate one way but not the other
Working in Tech Support. "Can you just log in for me?" Pick up the mouse, click on the username box, type in their name (assuming they can remember it), back to the mouse, click the password box, type password, mouse again down to OK, meanwhile I'm standing there quietly growing a beard.
I get that if you don't know then you don't know and that's absolutely fine. But I've shown these people time and again how things like Tab and Enter work and they go "oh, that's great!" and then carry on regardless. It's like they don't trust it or something.
I often see cars in front of me edging forwards a bit, then rolling back, rinse and repeat a dozen times.
And invariably, when the lights do change it'll take them an age to actually set off.
The mechanic has a list for what people call the various parts of their bike. Winners so far include “the wheel with teeth” and “the uppy downy forks”.
Again, from Tech Support. The number of people who think the monitor is "the computer" and the PC itself is "the hard drive" is just astounding.
vacuum cleaner needs to be emptied? Yes just like etc…
When we moved in together we ended up with two vacuum cleaners so gave one to The Girl. A few months on my partner casually says something about how they haven't hoovered in weeks because they can't. "What about the cleaner we gave them?" I ask. "Oh, it doesn't work." Well, OK, why is this news? Get it back here an I'll have a look at it.
Got it home, emptied it, it works again.
But think of the things that the host would get mended
I'm terrible for this. I'm the sort of guy who will book into a hotel room and have the sink in bits because the stupidly over-designed but under-engineered plug isn't working properly.
That's another one for Disproportionally Cross actually, assuming I haven't already. What was wrong with plugs on a chain? Talk about solutions looking for a problem, fishing about in grubby water to open the plug after I've already dried my hands once is totally an improvement.
People who get into a stone cold vehicle and rag it within seconds of turning the key
Then they wonder why their car is always breaking down.......
And bus drivers . Do they go to a special place to learn how to drive badly. Accelerate , accelerate , accelerate , oh hang on , there's the same person at the same bus stop at the same time as the last 100 days but by Christ , where did they jump out from. And slam on the brakes.
They’ll just replace it during the MOT and charge her for the bulb.
Indeed, that is what they are waiting on. Obviously you also do an annual service then, so that and MOT will pick up anything dangerous you have been driving with for the last 11 months....
I do understand that no everyone is interested in these things.
But I *cannot* understand why you are happy for a car to be dangerous (a bulb let's face it is probably the tip of the iceberg on a 15 year old Yaris...) which you use year round, in all weathers, in the dark, for your work, and are paid 45p a mile to use...The same car in the past has had all sorts wear out, and yet it can take months or even the wait for the annual MOT and service before they get someone to attend to it.
Again, from Tech Support. The number of people who think the monitor is “the computer” and the PC itself is “the hard drive” is just astounding.
I became a sort of default "tech support" for the team I worked in in a previous role. IT loved me because it immediately dropped their call rate down to manageable figures. That one small team of about 6 people (comprised mostly of middle aged women) were responsible for over half the calls to Tech Support out of a company of 60(ish) people.
It was staggering how little they knew about computers and how little they cared about actually doing anything about it. It was routine for my boss to spend half a day searching for something or trying to format a document before giving it to me and I'd do it in 15 minutes.
Collectively, there must be millions of hours work time lost annually due to general computer ineptitude.
OH's car (our only real car at the moment) is now 20 years old. There's no reason it couldn't go on a lot longer, but she has zero mechanical sympathy for it. I've pointed out that the cost of replacing the clutch will be more than it's worth, but she still insists on never using the handbrake as some sort of matter of principal.
Same with checking the oil. We know it burns a bit, so maybe check and top it up before the engine starts to sound like a bag of spanners?
In her mind "it's an old car it won't last forever" is disconnected from the reality that if it breaks terminally we'll end up spending £10k on a replacement (that won't be as easy to service on the drive). And that 90% of the "old car" faults are down to her not looking after it.
I'd be less annoyed but it's not just a "her car" thing:
a) I leant her mine (much bigger) for an IKEA trip when her sister moved house and it came back with an MPG figure lower than I'd ever seen!
b) She's already decided that the "new" car will be hers and I have to keep this one running for muddy bikes so all these built up issues will be mine to deal with while she thrashes the new shiny car 😂
Working in Tech Support. “Can you just log in for me?” Pick up the mouse, click on the username box, type in their name (assuming they can remember it), back to the mouse, click the password box, type password, mouse again down to OK, meanwhile I’m standing there quietly growing a beard
😂😂😂
I know this one as my partner does it and I used to teach CAD to students of all ages and ability.
It's... painful.
People who don’t flush cut cable ties, animals.
Don't do that, it'll block your toilet. Really, some people, no mechanical sympathy 🙄
😉
And bus drivers . Do they go to a special place to learn how to drive badly. Accelerate , accelerate , accelerate , oh hang on , there’s the same person at the same bus stop at the same time as the last 100 days but by Christ , where did they jump out from. And slam on the brakes.
I had the misfortune to have to use the bus to pick my car up from the garage a few weeks ago. Now the Cardiff Bus drivers don't have the best reputation at the best of times so the first part of my journey was all as expected, jerky and no avoidance of potholes despite it being a route they use 10's of times each day. But the second part was a while different level. This was on one of the new Electric buses that are meant to be smoother and more comfortable but not with this driver. He would stab that the throttle leaving every stop rather than feed it in gently. Braking was fine initially but as you got down to waking pace he would just stamp on the pedal (no engine braking caused that apparently...). Throttle manipulation was non-existent when in the move either. You could just tell he refused to adapt his driving from what he had done with the diesel auto boxes where the drivetrain smoothed everything out for him, they mask a lot of mechanical abuse. Thankfully it was only a 25 minute ride but it was enough for me to never want to use a bus again and to also feel sorry for the bus itself having to survive being treated like that all day, every day.
Collectively, there must be millions of hours work time lost annually due to general computer ineptitude.
I think these broadly fall into two camps.
Type 1: They just don't know. This is wholly understandable and I reject absolutely the notion that they're somehow "idiots." We wouldn't hand someone a car or a guitar or something, go "off you go" and expect them to be able to use it. So why do we expect this with computers? I will go to the ends of the Earth to help these people.
Type 2: They don't want to know. Worse, they're actively hostile to knowing. They wear their ignorance as a badge of honour, they're proud of it presumably because they think they're above such things. I've told this tale before but I once heard "oh, I don't know anything about this 'computer' shit." Well, a) thanks for calling my career and most of my life "shit" and b) you're an Accountant, using Excel is literally your day job. I don't know the first thing about using Excel really, but give me a couple of minutes and I can probably work out what you're trying to do. And you're going to ask me the same question again in a fortnight aren't you, because for all that you boast about being a technophobe you've spent the entire time I've been here worrying at your phone. Type 2s can get in the ****ing sea, they were the bane of my existence.
But I *cannot* understand why you are happy for a car to be dangerous (a bulb let’s face it is probably the tip of the iceberg on a 15 year old Yaris…) which you use year round, in all weathers, in the dark, for your work, and are paid 45p a mile to use…The same car in the past has had all sorts wear out, and yet it can take months or even the wait for the annual MOT and service before they get someone to attend to it.
Are YOU not part of the problem here? You are buying the bulbs and going to do it for her - why would she bother learning to do it herself when you'll sort it. Obviously the cops are also part of the problem if they ignore people driving round with a bulb out (or is it a full beam not working - as they may never see that - and if the car is mostly used in town then the driver might not really either!). Presumably if maintenance was actually a massive factor in road accidents - insurance would be more expensive for vehicles with previous MOT advisories, insurance would want to see or discount based on service history, gov would consider making 6 month MOTs for some types of high risk vehicle (perhaps those which scraped through!). I think we are at risk of projecting our expectations (based on stuff that we learned, which may or may not be actually right - like the handbrake) on to others, and there might be a bit of patriarchal judgement involved!
On computers. When my bit of the nhs was computerised we got some basic training on the software but nothing for basic computer use. A significant number of people never used a computer so didn't have the basic skills needed .not their fault at all that they couldn't use a mouse
This may have already been mentioned...
A romantic understanding sees it primarily in terms of immediate appearance.” beauty or art and are led by their feelings. Classical thinkers value systems, laws and logic. To them, the inner workings of a thing is much more important than its surface appearance.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I love that book and re-read it every 5 years or so. Some on this thread would get it and love it too 🙂
Every year I set up a little bike mechanic stand at the local fete / fun day and fix / check bikes for free.
Every year one or two genuinely astound me. I get a lot of people have no desire to maintain bikes, especially inexpensive ones for kids, but the merest sliver, the tiniest morsel of knowledge and mechanical sympathy might mean your children aren't riding around on something genuinely unsafe.
Parent "Can you check the brakes, my kid is complaining the brakes aren't very good"
Me: "The rear brake is disconnected and the front is braking on the tyre not the wheel"
Parent: "Is that bad?"
Still that was better than the one I was asked to look at that had one crank arm and no grips. I would have had more sympathy for the poor state of the bike if they hadn't turned up in a Range Rover Sport
Are YOU not part of the problem here? You are buying the bulbs and going to do it for her – why would she bother learning to do it herself when you’ll sort it.
I have waited since July to actually do anything. So trying NOT to be the problem.
Still that was better than the one I was asked to look at that had one crank arm and no grips. I would have had more sympathy for the poor state of the bike if they hadn’t turned up in a Range Rover Sport
Yep. We had that on some of our bike rides in lockdown with the BB's. Range Rover, £600k house, both parents consultant something and GP.
Cue undersized Apollo with no grips, saddle pointing up a la 1980's BMX, bald tyres and one brake pad missing completely. Plus a cracked helmet (etc).
I would not be so frustrated but we had offered the day before both bike checks/basic tune up and/or a loaner bike for anyone who did not have one or needed one. And the fact that the dad has a carbon Scott road bike and Trek Fuel....
What then really narked me off was they were asking if there was anywhere that would give them a bike to replace it when I suggested the skip....
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I love that book and re-read it every 5 years or so. Some on this thread would get it and love it too 🙂
Tangent: I had high hopes for "Shop class as soulcraft: an inquiry into the value of work" (briefly - it's about an academic who runs a motorcycle repair shop). However, would not recommend. Turgid self-indulgent academic naval gazing. I hope the author fixes motorcycles better than he writes pop psychology books.
When my bit of the nhs was computerised we got some basic training on the software but nothing for basic computer use.
Yes I think many folks experience of using computers is this. The whole training focussed on the programme that people will be using and not how the thing itself functions.
My wife slams doors and it drives me nuts, the force she uses to shut a car door is enough that I sometimes go and check it hasn’t opened the opposite door."
Late 1980s, I used to have a Maestro van (oooh, get me and my fancy-pants motors...) where the passenger door was a bit prone to bouncing back if slammed hard. So I always said to people "Just pull it, don't slam it". What did they do? Slam it ever harder & harder, until I had to get out of the driver side, walk round, and do a soft-push demonstration. Grrrrr
I think these broadly fall into two camps.
Picking up on that and expanding it a bit, I think that older people (in general) have slightly more of a clue and slightly more desire for "make do and mend". Back in the 80's, my grandfather was quite handy with fixing his car...because the bloody thing was unreliable (as were many cars back then). When he was in the Navy, he'd had to learn how to fix radios and morse lights (he was a signaller) because there wasn't a Radio Shack out in the North Atlantic. Mechanical competence based on necessity.
Modern "stuff" though has been made much easier and more intuitive to use at the expense of any sort of serviceability. I can't do what my grandpa did with cars...but my car doesn't fall apart every 200 miles or burn massive amounts of oil or have a flaky panel that needs banging back into place. So through the lack of needing to do anything with it (and the fact that the car manufacturer has actively made it difficult to allow the end user to do anything with it), means I don't have to know about it.
So I reckon the younger generation are at that level - "stuff" is generally pretty reliable and idiot proof (yes, yes, you can always find a better class of idiot...) so they've never needed to learn mechanics. It still doesn't excuse them from driving around in a car with bits hanging off it instead of getting it sorted though.
Nah, I don't buy that. Cars are just as repairable as they always were for most home users, it's just the tools that are different.
Yes, some consumer product manufacturers have made it deliberately difficult to fix things but Right to Repair is the backlash that will correct this.
My current car can park itself – and does exactly the above when reverse parking – it goes from lock to lock whilst stationary, and quite quickly. I guess BMW don’t have to pay for tyres.
Really? My old Golf (2010) with autopark definitely needed movement to start turning the wheels. Bit of a shocker from BMW there – the strain of low pro tyres on all those steering and suspension bits must be extraordinary.
Yep - due to camber angles and all that jazz the bonnet visibly rises and falls as it does so.
It's just tyre wear and judgement from others that concerns me though - O don't think strain on the mechanicals is an issue - they're designed for far higher loads. One common load case for design / analysis is "kerb jacking" - i.e. park the car with the front wheels parallel to and almost touching a decent height kerb. Then apply lock to force the car to move sideways.
IME folk with no mechanical sympathy are a bunch of gibers, censurers, backbiters, pickpockets, highwaymen, housebreakers, attorneys, bawds, buffoons, gamesters, politicians, wits, splenetics, tedious talkers, controvertists, ravishers, murderers, robbers, virtuosos, scoundrels raised from the dust upon the merit of their vices, nobility thrown into it on account of their virtues; lords, fiddlers, judges and dancing-masters all.
The best thing I have read all day. Possibly ever. Quite right!
Modern “stuff” though has been made much easier and more intuitive to use at the expense of any sort of serviceability. I can’t do what my grandpa did with cars...............(and the fact that the car manufacturer has actively made it difficult to allow the end user to do anything with it), means I don’t have to know about it.
I disagree.
Swapping the clutch, brake pads or the cambelt on a modern car is fundamentally the same as it was 70 years ago. It might require you to turn the ignition on whilst holding the odometer reset, counting to three then reciting Les Internationale if it involves French electrics or Deutschlandlied if VAG, BMW or Merc. But it's still just a few minutes/hours with spanners.
My Car's O2 sensor has failed. I know this because I plugged my laptop in and it told me. That the "bolt" that makes up the body of the sensor has sized into the exhaust is a problem common to both a new Ford and the 50 year old MG it shares the driveway with.
People : Cars are far too complicated to do anything myself.
Also People : You can't get thicker than a Kwick Fit fitter.
Mrs WF doesn’t drive much, and being German tends to drive too far to the left for my liking.
Not to tyre bursting standards but I've been living between the UK and America for a bit and that's familiar. I don't even have think about what side of the road I should be on anymore, I just do it correctly depending in what country I am in. Only time I do notice it is on the odd occasion I find myself not centred in a driving lane. I think it's because I revert to positioning the car based on me rather than the vehicle, so in the US I might be driving towards the right hand side of the lane rather than the middle. Easily solved by buying a Mclaren F1!
I see we've digressed a bit into lack of mechanical competence and generally not causing damage to all the stuff around you.
1 handbrakes are meant to be ratchetted and it’s in the owner’s manual too, “Always apply the parking
brake. Activate the manual parking brake without pressing the release button. Apply as firmly as possible on a downhill slope or uphill slope. Depress brake pedal at the same time to reduce operating force.”
It may be true, but you can't assume it to be true just because it says so in the owner's manual. The manual is written to be idiot proof and to avoid liability to the manufacturer in case of misoperation.
But think of the things that the host would get mended
That’s how an economy exists, everyone contributes in their own way. Some people diagnose and fix mechanical issues with cars, some people fix mechanical issues with humans. What sort of world would it be if we all acted like robots that stopped everything and adjusted their ‘insert example here’.
Would you like to be a rounded enough individual to be able to exist as a one man band, doing everything yourself? I’m not and I really appreciate that mechanic that can do a job for me, freeing up time so I can do ‘insert example here.’
Not the same thing. You're taking my point several levels higher and generalising it, and then disagreeing with me about something that isn't the point I made.
I’m confused what your complaint is here… …it sounds like the original bikes failed to take into account the usability requirements of the target demographic. A lot of the complaints of, frankly middle aged grumpy old men, on this thread are actually design failures rather than lack of mechanical sympathy.
I did say that their response was in the spirit of the hire programme. My general position was that people should have enough basic awareness to stop bloody breaking stuff, rather than creating work and costs to repair and upgrade stuff to handle the abuse. It is a lack of mechanical sympathy, but I think the point we differ on is whether we should accept that and design for it, or say teach people to people be more sympathetic.
I’m confused what your complaint is here… …it sounds like the original bikes failed to take into account the usability requirements of the target demographic. A lot of the complaints of, frankly middle aged grumpy old men, on this thread are actually design failures rather than lack of mechanical sympathy.
Not really, in the case of e-bikers can you imagine the collective gnashing of walkers crisps if their bikes had torque limiters?
+1 handbrakes are meant to be ratchetted and it’s in the owner’s manual too, “Always apply the parking
brake. Activate the manual parking brake without pressing the release button. Apply as firmly as possible on a downhill slope or uphill slope. Depress brake pedal at the same time to reduce operating force.”
Vauxhalls don't count, only people who hate driving/cars would ever consider spending actual money on a Vauxhall.
Anyone who drags the handbrake up without pressing the button first is a monster and should be fired from a cannon into the sun, along with those who ram their car into each gear, you don't need to try and snap the lever off you animals.
When I was taught to drive many years ago the push the button in as you pull the lever was taught as standard practice
Why?
As previously pointed out, they don't wear out so...
Dunno really. This was back inthe 70s. Presumably a myth that they did
I’d never even heard of anyone doing that until I hired a car on holiday and my wife asked me why I didn’t use the button as she’d been taught by her driving instructor. That was in my 30s
I also don’t lift and reseat ratchet screwdrivers and spanners when I use them 😉
It’s also a nice sound when you ratchet on a handbrake. I think some people don’t learn how to repair things because they’re just not that way inclined. What seems simple to one person, such as changing a wheel on a car or defragging a hard drive for example, may be utterly daunting to another. A basic level of understanding should be taught at some point. Not sure when or by who.
My FiL is a retired mechanic and one of rag guys that works with me loves computers and tech. Both fantastic dealing with their chosen field. Both wildly incompetent/borderline dangerous the other way round.
I think some people don’t learn how to repair things because they’re just not that way inclined.
There's a world of difference between actually fixing something and being a sympathetic operator.
Who teaches them how to operate things? I think that’s the missing piece. A lot of folk nowadays don’t have the knowledge or skills to pass on how things work and how to look after them. Then there are the ones that just don’t care. Sad state of affairs really.
I am 90 percent sure "three clicks" was a requirement during my driving test era (which was later than most of you old gits)
I am 100% with squirrelking on this. It's an affectation and as it causes no damage of any consequence it fails the mechanical sympathy objection test.
Hauling on it with or with out the ratchet... That's the real issue.
I used to work with an opinionated wee arsehole thought he knew everything insisted oiling his rotors was the fix for squeaky brakes. He was a total walloper in general so I didn't point out his chain was on the outside of the derailleur tab as we set off on the annual gypsy glen ride. And watched with glee as he rode himself into the ground trying to keep up. Waited to the top before casually asking why he had put his chain on wrong.
When I started driving I found the handbrake getting stuck on could be embarrassing and potentially dangerous so reversed the pawl to make it fly off. That was fine unless you drove another car without a fly off. The answer was to push the button in and drill through lever and button and add a screw - a handbrake but no longer a parking brake. I just had to remember to take the screw out for the MOT. Now there's no clutch to ride and the handbrake is electric.
Swapping the clutch, brake pads or the cambelt on a modern car is fundamentally the same as it was 70 years ago.
Cars didn't have cambelts 70 years ago. The first two I can remember (Escort BDA and Fiat Abarth) had exposed cambelts you could change in the time it took to remover the decorative plastic on a modern engine. Brake pads, I agree but I reckon there are probably three time the nuts, bolts, screws and clips to get at a clutch these days, and a pile of specialist tools rather than a bag of AF spanners and a screw driver. The real problem with modern cars though - electronics, chips and sensors - cars are about as reliable as a PC.
The real problem with modern cars though – electronics, chips and sensors – cars are about as reliable as a PC.
So really bloody reliable compared to an old car requiring constant fettling to run correctly?
There's no way you can cut it to argue old cars were more reliable. They're less user servicable for sure but that's not the same thing.
Yeah, I can remember my dad constantly having to fix something on his cars damn every weekend. While I accept modern cars breakdown, mine goes in for servicing...and that's pretty much it. I intermittently check oil and water and it tells me when to put air in the tyres. In comparison to cars 30 years ago, they're white-goods really.
Yep, I don't touch my car in between services and it has been faultless for 5 years. My Computer is only 2 years old and never gone wrong and the one I have before that was 10 years old and never went wrong once in 10 years.
Maybe saying as reliable as a PC is not the best example...
Swapping the clutch, brake pads or the cambelt on a modern car is fundamentally the same as it was 70 years ago.
70 years ago, most cars had overhead valve engines, usually with a chain drive, rear-wheel drive, and drum brakes all round. Drum brakes needed regular cleaning and adjusting to keep them working properly (which was still pretty underwhelming) and changing brake shoes was a much trickier job than changing disc brake pads. You needed to set the points gap and spark timing at every service and pulling off the cylinder head to do a valve grind was a regular thing.
Starting the engine when cold meant using a manual choke to richen the mixture, but if you got that wrong, the engine would flood. A lot of cars didn't have very effective shielding under the engine bay so the distributor would get wet if you drove through a puddle and the engine would cut out. The drum brakes would also get wet and you'd change lanes if one side got wet and the other didn't.
Modern cars are much, much better. Much more reliable and their performance, braking, and handling are far superior to the old shitboxes from 70 years ago.
Modern cars are much more reliable
Ditto all the above but also to add corrosion protection was almost not existent on old cars. Cars would begin to visibly rust on door edges, bonnet leading edge, stone chips etc within 4 or 5 years from new. Less if Italian or early Japanese (Datsun, I'm looking at you). That just doesn't happen now unless a vehicle is very badly abused.
I am old enough to be a dab hand at adjusting points and carburettors, ****ting the starter motor with a hammer etc. because it was a regular necessity. If it was a Brit car with Lucas (prince of darkness) electrics they were absolutely guaranteed to let you down at some stage. Cars were also leaky, slow, noisy and just crap.
No rose tinted glasses here, modern cars are incomparably superior to the beige shit boxes of the 70s and 80s.
There’s no way you can cut it to argue old cars were more reliable.
I didn't, I just said that the problem with modern cars is the chips, sensors and electronics. In the last 10 years I've booked a car in for non-routine servicing twice, both chip/electronics related. My PC has been to the local repairer twice in the same time. So I'll stand by "modern cars are about as reliable as a PC". 🙂
No rose tinted glasses here, modern cars are incomparably superior to the beige shit boxes of the 70s and 80s.
Indeed.
But I would also argue we have lost 'character' in many modern cars, and that is not only related to the shortcomings of the vehicle. I keep eying up that 1988 Saab 900 which passes by and think 'hmmmm'....
only people who hate driving/cars would ever consider spending actual money on a Vauxhall.
One of the best cars I ever had was a Vauxhall.
(Not my photo.)
I bloody loved the Cav, I had several. The GL was, for it's time, like piloting the Enterprise. The SRi was a right giggle.
would also argue we have lost ‘character’ in many modern cars,
100%.
I can see video footage or stills from my formative years and go "that's a Mk2 Fiesta" or whatever. Today, perhaps it's the same phenomenon as modern music to old ears but they're all so bland and interchangeable. Mundane silver lumps that haven't changed much aesthetically since the Sierra took a a defibrillator to the design industry 40 years ago.
But I would also argue we have lost ‘character’ in many modern cars.
In the motorcycling world 'character' is often used by old duffers as a euphemism for vibration, questionable build quality and unreliability. I've owned an old British bike which had bags of 'character'. I've also had modern British and Japanese bikes which are accused of being 'soulless' because they don't leak oil, rattle your fillings out or break down regularly. I'll take 'soulless' over 'character' every single time. I don't think the world of cars and motorbikes are all that different.
Old blokes who look fondly at the cars of their youth, would in most cases be sorely disappointed if they were to drive one today. Things have moved on, your memory plays tricks on you, they are not as great as you remember.
My own dear mother once asked me how I kept my laptop screen so clean, while jabbing it with her finger and leaving grubby marks.
“By never doing that, mum.”
My dear old gran kept looking behind the laptop screen as she couldn't understand where the pictures where coming from or going to. But then she also couldn't remember who her own children and grand children were either. Dementia sucks.
One of the best cars I ever had was a Vauxhall.
One of your best cars ever was a Vauxhall Cavalier - you need to get out more.
Old blokes who look fondly at the cars of their youth, would in most cases be sorely disappointed if they were to drive one today. Things have moved on, your memory plays tricks on you, they are not as great as you remember.
Hey Cougar, he's calling you old 😉
In the motorcycling world ‘character’ is often used by old duffers as a euphemism for vibration, questionable build quality and unreliability
See also "soul".
And folk waxing lyrical about the days when they could strip their bike/motorbike/car down and rebuild it.
Yes, the bloody thing needed that cos it kept breaking!
Anyone missing old cars should be buying one. They are good value, parts can be cheap if picking right model, easy to fix, no tax, no MOT and dirt cheap insurance.
Just try not to crash in it...
One of the best cars I ever had was a Vauxhall.
So what were your other cars?
So what were your other cars?
My own dear mother once asked me how I kept my laptop screen so clean, while jabbing it with her finger and leaving grubby marks.
“By never doing that, mum.”
In the period of about 5 years when touch screen phones were the norm but my mum did not have one, showing her any photo or anything else invariably resulted in her grabbing the phone by either the screen or the side buttons and seeming surprised that it changed picture or turned off
--
A few weeks ago my girlfriend mentioned that one of her car tyres looked a bit flat, and asked if I could pump it up. Yes it was (8psi when it should be 28) and the other three were in the low teens.
Apparently she noticed because it "looked flat" which it did, and not by noticing the deterioration of the handling of the vehicle.
Hey Cougar, he’s calling you old 😉
Only in his car choices* I'm a fully qualified old duffer myself, so I'm allowed to 🙂
*And maybe sartorial choices? He's gotta be rocking a flat cap, brown crimplene 'slacks' and open backed driving gloves to go with that car? Surely? 😉
Uncle was an engineer and I learned a lot when I was a kid about how stuff works. Also owned 3 Alfa's (which will find you out quickly if you are not "sympathetic") Each one mint when I passed them on. You either have it or you dont. Fixing up cars as a teenager helps. My car doesnt even have a dipstick...
70 years ago, most cars had overhead valve engines, usually with a chain drive, rear-wheel drive, and drum brakes all round. Drum brakes needed regular cleaning and adjusting to keep them working properly (which was still pretty underwhelming) and changing brake shoes was a much trickier job than changing disc brake pads. You needed to set the points gap and spark timing at every service and pulling off the cylinder head to do a valve grind was a regular thing.
Starting the engine when cold meant using a manual choke to richen the mixture, but if you got that wrong, the engine would flood. A lot of cars didn’t have very effective shielding under the engine bay so the distributor would get wet if you drove through a puddle and the engine would cut out. The drum brakes would also get wet and you’d change lanes if one side got wet and the other didn’t.
Modern cars are much, much better. Much more reliable and their performance, braking, and handling are far superior to the old shitboxes from 70 years ago.
Modern cars are much more reliable
Thanks for mancarboresplaining that to me, my car's 50 years old so I might know that and it wasn't my point was it? It was nothing to do with the practicalities of driving it.
In fact in your desperation to argue, you've made my point, modern cars are actually easier to work on!
Belts are easier to swap than chains (and old chains don't last as long) as the pulleys don't need to come off so as long as you lock everything properly it's just belt off, belt on, no need to re-time everything.
I disagree that changing disks is easier than drums, but if you want to believe I'm right and that modern cars are easier to work on that's fine.
Points - yup, one less job to do. Plugging in my laptop and booting up Forscan is about as tricky though.
There's new stuff to go wrong too, but for the most part it's rare. In a typical cars life it'll get through about 4 sets of brakes, 2 clutches, a cambelt, a couple of wheel bearings, some suspensions bushes and shock absorbers. None of that is any more difficult on a modern car to one 70 years ago. Things like the ECU failing is a new risk, but uncommon, on most car's it'll outlive the mechanicals. Look around a scrap yard and almost all cars these days die in crashes, or just reach a point where routine stuff becomes uneconomical to fix at MOT time.
My theory is that anyone who says "modern cars are too complicated to maintain myself" is also incapable of fixing an old car but just isn't admitting it.
Belts are easier to swap than chains (and old chains don’t last as long) as the pulleys don’t need to come off so as long as you lock everything properly it’s just belt off, belt on, no need to re-time everything.
<FMoC> someone hold my beer......</FMoC>
One of your best cars ever was a Vauxhall Cavalier – you need to get out more.
What do you suppose I was doing with it?
(OK, "best" was a poor choice of word. "Favourite" would be more appropriate.)
<FMoC> someone hold my beer……</FMoC>
To be fair, putting timing chains/belts in places that require complete engine disassembly isn't anew thing.
Who ever was rebuilding that didn't lube the bearing shells and crank journals before dropping the crank in - no mechanical sympathy! It looks like the engine was being run when the chain was completely knackered hence the ned to weld the bracket back on - no mechanical sympathy. 😉 Motorbike engine? Honda 750?
OK, “best” was a poor choice of word. “Favourite” would be more appropriate.
Fair enough and I agree. My best cars technically were not my favourites. My favourite car I have ever owned is either a Rover P6 or a Mk2 RS2000 which were both fairly old when I owned them and yes I could fix most things on them myself which I would not have attempted on the technically better cars.
I am going back to an old car (50-60 years old probably) when I can decide what to buy as with no Tax, no MOT and very cheap insurance (under £100 a year) it won't cost much as long as I keep it running myself.
Luckily I have the mechanical sympathy to drive one...
I’ll just leave these here…
I bloody loved the Cav
A very very long time ago, for a short period *, I was a driver for a hire car firm. Needless to say all of the cars we rented out were knackered, usually with barely functioning brakes*, with a couple of notable exceptions. Any Cavalier that came in was instantly looked after by the mechanic not us plebs who were glorified car-washers, and he'd spend hours on them. The other exception were the Volvo 850 turbos, also given the loving treatment. Turns out the mechanic used to work for Vauxhall at one of their production plants, and owned a mark i, ii & iii.
*a short period as I crashed one of the shagged Renault Clios into the valeting tent at Newcastle airport due to its non-functioning brakes 😳 as a casual driver it was a one accident and you're out policy 😢
Fair enough and I agree. My best cars technically were not my favourites. My favourite car I have ever owned is either a Rover P6 or a Mk2 RS2000 which were both fairly old when I owned them and yes I could fix most things on them myself which I would not have attempted on the technically better cars.
I think that's part of it. My first was an early 90s plate, it was pretty much a Goldilocks car. It was - relatively speaking - dripping with toys like "electric windows" which today would be weird not to have but at the time almost had a stigma for being poseur (see also: mobile phones). But it was also of an age where buying a Haynes manual wasn't an outrageous proposition either. Best of both worlds.
That aside, it was just nice. It was comfy, it swallowed up motorway miles, it was the lap of luxury compared with the mk3 Escort it replaced, it was spirited enough for a 20-something with more spunk than brains, and it was wholly predictable when physics exceeded driver ability.
I had four or five of them in the end, before the world of company cars supplanted student bangernomics and Bank Of Mum. But that first GL Cav was special to me.
They also have a few semi-compact tractors, on the road always being driven at full hand throttle instead of using the pedal, still full throttle when stopped moving and then moving off again.
Just would like perhaps explain this behaviour since I am a trainer for a local authority in Scotland and regularly train people in the use of compact tractors,
They are (mostly) hydrostatic, which means for the controls (drive, steering, brakes, PTO) to work, the hydraulic pumps need to be operating at maximum throttle. This is controlled by the hand throttle and the pedals are really only for forward and reverse up to max speed which is probably not much more than 15mph!
Not running at full throttle would be showing a lack of mechanical sympathy!
If any of you do want to drive an old car they let you have a spin round the block at the amber gate car museum.
Right next to some excellent riding and distillery if you want a spirits/ car/ bike combo day out.
Several of my dad's and uncles cars are on offer
https://drivedadscar.com/cars-available/
I doubt my dad's mark 3 escort or Capri would be much fun.
My uncles xjs might be fun . It had an electronic trip computer ( wild!) That go down to 3mpg when he had his foot down showing off in the 80's.
Just would like perhaps explain this behaviour since I am a trainer for a local authority in Scotland and regularly train people in the use of compact tractors,
@e... These are semi-compact with a clutch and geared transmission, type you'd get on a farm. Seems the drivers are carrying over the driving technique.
Glad to see the discussion has moved on from handbrakes.
My PC has been to the local repairer twice in the same time.
In the 30 years I've owned PCs, don't think I've ever had to 'repair' one.
So like when you get a car you suddenly notice the same make and model...
Out for a walk this evening and waiting at a junction. A car comes up the road then last minute indicates to turn into the road, car slows down but the driver doesn't change gear until the car nearly stalls (accompanied by the horrible sound from the engine).
I'm speechless. That's a Bentley, by the way.
https://twitter.com/mistergeezy/status/1739903678763385328
I find it amazing when looking at cars mot history, who the hell doesnt check tyres and bulbs on a car going for its mot? It seems a lot of us!
I was at Kwik-Fit recently when a lady came in to collect her car, ‘reg? Blank face… make/model? Blank face… colour? Blank face…!!’
in the end a mechanic remembered what she dropped off…
The actions of the person int he tan jacket though. Appears just to be an unconnected bystander, but just loses the plot and starts slapping the car like thats going to help the situation any.
The actions of the person int he tan jacket though. Appears just to be an unconnected bystander, but just loses the plot and starts slapping the car like thats going to help the situation any.
I'm pretty sure he's the owner of the car that she hit.
A common complaint from parents was how the staff treated the person’s home – from wasting electricity to damage as you describe. I genuinely think it was how they managed their own homes though, they didn’t learn despite repeated complaints.<br /><br />
They aren’t paid to care, and that often goes for the people, as well as anything technical or technological.
I can see video footage or stills from my formative years and go “that’s a Mk2 Fiesta” or whatever. Today, perhaps it’s the same phenomenon as modern music to old ears but they’re all so bland and interchangeable. Mundane silver lumps that haven’t changed much aesthetically since the Sierra took a a defibrillator to the design industry 40 years ago.
I will happily debate that point, having spent five or six years driving a very wide range of vehicles produced within the last ten years or so. Go back to the 70’s or so, and there were saloon cars from Ford, Vauxhall, Hillman and the other main manufacturers that were pretty much indistinguishable from each other, basically a three-box structure, whereas now I can often tell a make or model apart in the dark just from the design of their lights. I can easily identify a Vauxhall from a Peugeot, or a Hyundai or a Nissan or a Ford - there are significant differences in their design ‘language’. <br />But don’t get me started on the hopeless ergonomics, or lack of in many modern cars - the frankly insane obsession with touchscreens in many cars by some manufacturers should be subject to an industry-wide inquiry because of the clear and present danger to the public. Peugeot fitted a hexagonal steering wheel in their 208 series along with a ‘holographic’ display that means the actual car’s speed is blocked from the driver’s vision by the top of the steering wheel, and no amount of adjustment of the seat would allow me to see how fast I was going - and these cars were intended for learner drivers; I was applying the driving school livery decals, so actually driving the cars. And I can post photos to prove it. <br />But other manufacturers were paying attention - Ford for one; they fitted actual analogue dials and physical buttons and controls, unlike VW who’ve had to start re-designing their car interiors.
Mechanically, though, it’s virtually impossible to do anything more than check oil and water levels now, and in some cars replacing light bulbs is incredibly difficult - it took at least
45 minutes to replace a sidelight bulb in my W-reg Ford Puma, and that came under ‘roadside repair’! You needed a large size Torx wrench, when hardly anyone knew what Torx bolts were, to undo a row of bolts to take the radiator grill out, then undo some more bolts to release the headlight units, detach a couple of drain tubes, remove the headlight unit from the car, remove the rear of the unit to access the bulbs, take the bulb out and replace it, then reverse the process.
Some Renault cars required the car to be jacked up, the wheel to be removed, inner wing to be removed in order to access the rear of the headlight before you could even get at the bulb, let alone change it. That was around £150 at a dealer. Little wonder most people gave up on even thinking about fixing anything on their cars.
Long gone are the days you could fix pretty much anything with a small set of spanners, some screwdrivers, a hammer, a jack, some wheel-stands and a Haynes manual. With the help of a mate and a trolley jack, we replaced the rear axle, the front king-pins, front brakes, all four shocks, brake master-cylinder and a variety of other bits and bobs on my 1954 split-screen Morris Minor in a lockup garage down the road with no power supply at all, only a torch.
That’s a Bentley, by the way.
It’s a Chrysler 300C with fake badges. Very commonly done by the chav crowd.
That’s a Bentley, by the way.
Yeah, and its not mechanical unsympathy either. Some kind of mental health emergency by the look of it.
My thoughts are, most treat cars, pc’s etc just like a phone. If it doesnt ‘boot up’/work instantly boot it harder.
20k miles service intervals on diesel euro6 engines is just asking for trouble, but not normally for the first few owners