Maybe related to the "being a bit rubbish" thread - failure. .

Option A, no-one except you will really care how well you do so why should you either 

I'd just do it anyway... think of it like you are doing it to finish, your not looking to come top of the table.

I’m not sure if I can enter it knowing I’ve probably only a 50% chance of getting to the end.

And

I’ve the possibility of doing what, for me, would be a completely out-there running event next month. I know I can do half the distance and likely a good bit more.

So at least a 75% chance of finishing by my reckoning, pacing/fueling yourself properly should easily push you up closer to 100% chance of finishing.

BUt I guess it depends on the distances we are talking about... 5k vs 10k, or 50k vs 100k? different kettle of fish.

Your just racing yourself really, so forget everyone else and go for it.

Hmm, interesting,  because I've probably never really done stuff where I've really been massively outside my comfort zone like that. I'd probably be more focused and excited about the prospect of success and enjoying the event. It's a mind thing though, appreciate everyone is different.

Depends on the balance of anticipation of the event vs. the possibility of not finishing,  (you'll note I'm NOT using the word failure!) Go on Scotroutes, get entered,  you'll smash it!

I think there's a continuum between being woefully over-optimistic and under-prepared at one end of the spectrum and only taking on things you're 100% certain you'll succeed at at the other. Ultimately it's down to the individual when it comes to deciding where on the spectrum you choose to be.
My take, fwiw, is that it's ultimately about consequence. Trying to tackle, say, a climbing route in high mountains that's way beyond your comfort zone is quite different to doing a long bike ride, which you might not finish. One could easily kill you, the other is more likely to end up with an ignominious bail out.
If the potential consequences aren't actively highly dangerous to your existence or health or financially ruinous, it comes down to how you feel about being out of your comfort zone. Arguably it's when you bounce the boundaries a little that you learn stuff and have interesting experiences and that how I try to look at stuff. If it doesn't work out, it's a learning experience for next time.
Obviously it's not always that clear cut, but 'what's the likely worst that can happen?' isn't a bad start point. Often it's just feeling a bit down for a few days, which in the great schemer of things, isn't that bad.

Unlike the rest of my life where failure is most definitely always an option, I don't think I'd take on an event where I thought there was even a 10% chance I'd DNF. Though I've a tendency to overoptimism so it's impossible to be objective, and mates will always say "ah you'll be fine..." 

If you know you're going to complete something, where's the challenge?

Get entered!

The man who never made a mistake never made anything

Yeah, when I was building up distance on the bike, once I was confident doing 50k, as in to the point I was working on increasing my average speed rather than just physically getting there, I doubled my distance to 100k but purposely took it really easy, and picked a flat-ish route just to 'make the distance'.

Then build from there.

Running is a obvs bit different, but same basic pricipals surely apply?

No one other than you is going to give a stuff whether you come 8th or 58th.

I always preferred the training and planning more than the actual event, so if I didn't finish I didn't mind too much.

Have a go.
In my experience of attempting challenges that I’m unsure I can fulfil, I’ve been surprised by how much resilience I didn’t know I had. It could identify weaknesses that you can then work on moving forward.
I would always be thinking what if, if I turned it down.

Whatever the Race/event, there always has to be a bit of a challenge in it for me, it's just what I enjoy.
Where I finish in the results is less important than knowing I gave it my best shot.
When I used to race, I always felt I got good results because I was more focused, and possibly better prepared .
Would often beat a lot of riders that were (on paper)a lot fitter and faster than me.
It maybe helps that I am not a bad loser, so even when things are tough, I still have fun.
Like a few said on the other thread,I just love being out on a bike.

Set realistic expectations and see if you can better them. I don't like hurting myself, but genuinely surprised myself that I like riding long distances fast and turned out to be rather good at it.  Of course I wanted to be a sprinter mopping up wins on short course races, but that's just not my physiology. I still race them when I can, but not getting dropped, then finishing in the bunch, maybe top third, maybe in a break... You get the idea.

Accepting the challenge is victory.  

If you start you've passed the point of failure.  

From then on it's about degrees of success. 

That's what I try and tell myself. 

How do other folk handle both aspects of this?

I did the Great North Run this year. I sent more time worrying about whether to wear a baselayer under the charity vest, cos, well I'm overweight and it shows, but in my (admittedly odd mind) wearing a baselayer meant I'd look less overweight, than focusing om training. (I know. 🤦🏻‍♂️) I eventually, after telling myself 1000 times I couldn't do it, ran a 10 mile run the weekend before. Furthest I'd run to that pint was 6 miles.

Anyhoo, I finished the GNR. Yes I walked bits - it was horrendously hot, but I finished. When I finished I didn't know how to feel. When I got my official time I was properly down in the dumps, not because I should have run faster, but because it was further proof I'm just sh1t. In my head anyway. That was then.

Now? I'm better at being a bit prouder of myself for just doing it. Just. I'm just not very good at being kind to me.

No idea if this answers any of your questions, but it felt good typing it out. 😂

challenges” of various types – mostly cycling Any hint that I won’t succeed and I’ll simply not even consider entering/starting.

Wow. Amazing how different people are. I'm the absolute opposite.

First thing I'd say is what scruffy says... if that's the case then it's clearly not really a challenge for you.

I only started succeeding ( or even attempting) stuff when I realised that having a go is by far the most important thing and it didn't matter a jot whether I managed it

When I did the WHW I reckoned I had about 40% chance of getting far enough to collapse for 6 hours kip before continuing to finish the rest before the 24 hours were up. In the end I did it fine in a oner.

Likewise when I did the Cuilin ridge the only thing that got me driving all that way on my own was the thought that I might as well give it a go and see what happened. I knew I wouldn't manage it right up until I was at the Gillian col.

Likewise ( although not fully) when I attempted an Everest I tried it on a proper ofroad sector because doing it on road seemed pointless. I knew I could do it. There's no point in a challenge you can do. ( I failed BTW )

Out of interest, when you complete these challenges, is it touch and go or are you always well in? If the former then it sounds like your pre event mindset is flawed. If the latter then don't you ever fancy trying something proper challenging?

However, I’m not sure if I can enter it knowing I’ve probably only a 50% chance of getting to the end. My head just doesn’t work like that. 

They're the best kind of challenges, maybe the only real kind. Now and then we need to take on things that we're really not sure we can handle. Nothing to lose, everything to gain? (easy said, I know)

Exactly, otherwise it's just " going for a bike ride"

* run, walk, swim whatever

When I got my official time I was properly down in the dumps, not because I should have run faster, but because it was further proof I’m just sh1t.

Everyone was shit once though... that much is fact. No one was born able to do marathons (or anything) really well without a lot of trying and some failiures and learning.

It's almost like when people are too embarrased to join a gym because everyone will be really fit etc. That might be partially true, but they are not going to judge you, because guess what? at one time, they were over weight/un-fit at one time as well.

They will all be far more concerned with thier own performance against thier own previous performance than to really care that they can lift more or run further than you.

If anything they are probably more supportive than you might think.

'the race is long, and in the end, it's only against yourself'.

How do other folk handle both aspects of this?

Enter regardless and try not to care/get hung up on it?

Pretty much my attitude - set a achievable target so for this one it would be something like "finish in the top half"

I find it hard.. Even though mine are mostly slightly different to your issue that mine are not endurance based (i wish they were) but skills based. Mine are ummmed and ahhhed for days, weeks even months before i decide whether to enter an event or not...sometimes i do, sometimes i don't, rarely do i regret it. I'd say most races are 50-50 as to whether i'll get to the bottom or not.

I used to do some XC racing back in the day. My goals were:
1. Always finish the race, even if you have to carry the bike to the end. (But not if you are injured and need medical attention, obviously.) If you finish the race, you'll at least beat the people who didn't finish the race.
2. Try really hard to not come last, but even if you do, you've done better than someone who didn't bother trying.

You sound a bit like me... With one minor difference.

I don't do any planning.

As such I entered strathpuffer one year. I finished building my mountain bike the day before and bedded in the spikers on the icy firetrack while my team mate did the first lap.

I was doing fine until I put the front wheel in the ditch coming out the forest onto the dib station firetrack and landed on my chin (old course) I lasted another two laps before my neck was grumbling.

The art of failing is a tricky one to master but essentially if you enter an event on your limit and fail that's an impressive thing to do and only leaves yourself a bench mark for another day. I would definitely rather do that than another half marathon that I know is easily in my "I can get round even if I don't train" capacity.

I still tell people I did strathpuffer and I include the fact I landed on my chin and carried on. People are still amazed I enter such stupid things.

Any hint that I won’t succeed and I’ll simply not even consider entering/starting.

If you're comfortable not getting out of your comfort zone, and by the sounds of it, you know yourself quite well in that respect, then I'd imagine this is a reasonably satisfying situation to be in. You know that you're probably going to do quite well, the training will have paid off, and you've worked hard at eliminating the unforeseen, you say you're not competitive, but to me it sounds like you are exceedingly so. It sounds to me like the sort of prep that race winners do, so crack on. 

I don’t know about the psychology that has led to this “Perfectionist’s Paradox”, but if you are interested in psychology in general then taking on an unknown and monitoring your reactions to it unfold could be interesting for you.
You will learn a bit more about yourself, which allows you to plan better next time (it’s all data after all). For example I have learnt that I can rely on my inner stubborn ****, so I factor that into my calculations.
For me knowing that I would succeed reduces the appeal of doing a thing, we are all different 🙂

I did Paris Brest Paris this year, which at 1200km is twice as far as I've ever managed before. I was well prepared and figured that the worst that could happen was cycling to a train station to get back to the start. In the event, I was easily within the time limit and enjoyed a good chunk of it. Do it!

Running is a obvs bit different, but same basic pricipals surely apply?

Not the same as cycling, IMO, because after a while when running your body will eventually break, you will destroy something. However, when cycling you can just keep plodding along more or less indefinitely as long as your setup is right and your arse is in good shape.

No one was born able to do marathons

No, but some people were born much, much better at it than others. The thing is, you can only play the cards you are dealt. I got depressed when I spent some time trying to do 24hr races and realising that whilst I wasn't bad at it, I wasn't going to win anything. After chatting to a chap who were winning, or doing well, I realised that it's about much more than physiology. He lived with his parents and did nothing other than go to work and ride. I didn't want to do that - I have a family, and other interests. Like in a RPG video game, I have a set of stats, mental and physical, and whilst some things would make me suitable for that kind of challenge, not all of them are.

I could choose my ideal sport based on my stats, which probably would have been rugby or possibly track cycling. However, I tried rugby and didn't get on with the team that was available to me - partly because I was in the wrong position and partly because I am not that gregarious so I don't care for clubs. And Rugby had at the time a culture that put me off. In cycling terms I'd have been good at track cycling but you need a) a club, which I didn't care to join even if I'd known about such things as a youngster and b) a velodrome of which there are very few as we know. So it didn't happen.

Conversely, I've got a reasonable aptitude for swimming, but I hate it - there's no way I'd enjoy it enough (or am bloody-minded enough) to take that to a decent level. I did flirt with sprinting in athletics too in school, which I was quite good at, but I realised I just didn't like it. Hanging around all day waiting for three (if you're lucky) hugely stressful 20 second sessions which are basically predetermined that morning was not really very entertaining, unlike cycling which is actually quite fun in itself.

Perfection is the enemy of progress and all that. Crack on. Most of the time you’ll surprise yourself as to how it goes. Occasionally you’ll be disappointed. As long as the former outshines the latter in the long term, you’ll be reet. 

I’ve the possibility of doing what, for me, would be a completely out-there running event next month. I know I can do half the distance and likely a good bit more. However, I’m not sure if I can enter it knowing I’ve probably only a 50% chance of getting to the end.

I've just done similar, doing a 10km run in two weeks having NEVER run 10km and rarely run at all other than chasing a bus. Presumably you could just walk the end if the legs come off, that's what I plan to do!

Also worst comes to the worst it could be a good experience in learning to fail and realising it's no big deal, I've bailed out of events in the past* and realised, oh, the world keeps turning, nobody notices, your wife is just relieved you haven't broken anything, back to work on Monday etc. etc. Means I'm less afraid to enter other stupid stuff.

*actually bailing out of the 100km distance at one Selkirk MTB marathon meant I actually 'won' the 65km distance. I cling to that fact as it's the only 'race' I've ever 'won' (those apostrophes are doing a lot of heavy lifting though! 😂).

If you're looking at an ultra run, don't worry about dropping out part way round - I know several of ultra runners and they're often saying - I didn't finish this race cos of my head wasn't in it / poor kit choice / legs gave out after x km, etc.

Give it a go, if nothing else you will learn something to get better at next time.

good luck

If you know you’re going to complete something, where’s the challenge?

This is pretty much my philosophy to "big" events - last year, I did the GBE (North & South Downs, 72 hours limit) and absolutely rinsed myself and scratched on the second day. 

This year, I was better prepared, with a more conservative approach, but still apprehensive - managed to complete well under the time limit. 

I've got something "bigger" planned for 2025 (2024 is a wash due to work plans) maybe an LEL or GB Divide. Both of which would be a significant step up on anything I've done before... 

You've got to work with your brain so no point trying to flip it to accepting that you might fail.

But what about setting a different expectation of success, if you measured your success as completing half the event or three quarters and anything more was a bonus how would that sit in your head?

Me and a friend were both targetting 280 miles in the national 12h. Set my Garmin pacer and chased him all day. My friend fell behind and quit at nine hours knowing he was not going to make it. He hasn’t raced a 12h since. But it’s the trying and failing that matters. Otherwise there’s no challenge. I have a new challenge now and am training hard. But I don’t know whether I’ll succeed or not. My mantra has always been finish. And I’ve been dropped in quite a few road races and made it to the end. Sometimes dragging other riders along. entering means you beat those who didn’t turn up. Finishing means you beat those who quit.

I still have my 2hr single speed trophy from only my second mtb race. I had to walk the last lap for third place as the crank fell off. The results sheet does not record the results of the 9999 single speeders who chose not to enter that day, just the three that did 😂

I could waffle on for ages, but basically if I know I can do about 75% of the thing then I'll usually give it a go.

This tends to work fine, but I did find a four-day Tour of Mont Blanc very tough last month. Mainly because the combination of heavier pack and higher temps wasn't something I'd factored in. And we did a rather ambitious optional detour on the "easy" day.

But it’s the trying and failing that matters. Otherwise there’s no challenge

For you. 

I'd imagine that for some folks the challenge is all in the prep, and the race is just the culmination of months of work. Success in the race - whether that's a podium or  top 10 or just finishing reinforces the fact that your prep worked the way you wanted it to.

My mantra has always been finish

I can appreciate that - for me, in things like a triathlon where the whole thing is a challenge, then I do that. Or a long ITT.

However I've done plenty of 100km MTB races and I know I can easily finish them, but there comes a point (for me) when you're having a shit day, you know you'll complete but it'll take 8hrs, you won't care about a crap result and people are waiting for you to finish so they can go home - at that point I've already failed, for me, so then I just quit because there's no point in not quitting.

However I’ve done plenty of 100km MTB races and I know I can easily finish them, but there comes a point (for me) when you’re having a shit day, you know you’ll complete but it’ll take 8hrs, you won’t care about a crap result and people are waiting for you to finish so they can go home – at that point I’ve already failed, for me, so then I just quit because there’s no point in not quitting

I bailed once on a SDW ride at somewhere above Brighton... Why, because in simple terms, i wasn't enjoying it. I ended up hitting 2 roads into Brighton, jumping a train to Eastbourne where our hotel was and having a couple of beers/food while waiting for a mate. My legs were not in it, my heart wasn't in it... i just decided not to bother as it wasn't fun. The world didn't end and my mate has a bit of bragging rights on me for that one 🙂

This isn't particularly something I've thought about, but I guess I tend to just have a go at things. I'm lucky enough to be fairly fit so I figure I've usually got a fair chance of doing what I set out to do. It's a bit more of an adventure that way, not knowing if you'll manage or have to find a way out. Either way, it's good fun! Things like the Cuillin Ridge or SDW in a day - we  just went and had a go, figuring we'd just drop off the ridge or ride to a train station if we weren't going to finish. Chamonix to Zermatt we took bivy gear and made sure we had a few 'spare' days in case it all got a bit much, plus making a vague plan for getting home if we had to bail. We rode Paris-Roubaix by taking a change of clothes just in case we had to find a hotel (we did, so I guess we 'failed' but it was a cool little hotel and we had an awesome ride regardless).

The only times it's been a struggle has been when we've had accommodation to reach by a fixed time on multi-day routes, but that's when you learn how fast you can go in the last couple of hours before dark!

I guess if I'm racing I put a bit of effort in to get fit or get 'better' if it's an enduro type thing as I've got expectations about where I'd like to finish - and that's definitely more pressured and less fun than the more adventurous type stuff.

Edit - That wasn't meant to sound all 'look at me'. We've been far from fast on any of those things and spend significant amounts of time in cafes along the way. People have doubled the SDW in the amount of time it took us to go one way!

I'm firmly in the "if you're going to fail, don't attempt" camp. I mean, why would you ever set yourself up to be a failure??

Partly it comes from a career working in a pretty high pressure bit of the events industry. The (exceedingly rich) clients WILL be coming in at the agreed time, and we WILL be ready for them. If we're a minute late, there will be hell to pay. Consequently everything is gamed to be achievable in the conditions (venue, time, budget) we've got to work with. It may be brutal hard work, but it needs to be 99%, not 101.

Same goes for bike events. By the time you get to the start line, you MUST know you'll finish. If you don't, you've not prepped for it right. The event itself is just validation of the process. Racing is a strict no-no - the point of a race is to win, if you're not going to at least get on the podium, why set yourself up to be just another loser? (I'll make an exception for races where the only way to ride that particular route is to race it. I still hate myself for being shit afterwards though).

I got it right doing the Frontier300 last year. Never ridden anything like that distance. I was aiming for sub 20 hours, came it at just over 14.5. Compared to the training rides I'd done, it was pretty easy. A couple of dig-deep bits, but not for too long. It was just a big day out. The downside is I can never do it again, because next time I'd have to do it "better", ie faster.

I've really wanted to do Torino Nice for a good few years - the riding and route looks ace, but I can't figure out a way to make the logistics of it work. I'd rather do refuge to refuge and not carry camping kit, but the spacing doesn't quite add up and by not having the kit you have to have to commit to shorter days to guarantee making the next refuge, so it actually might take longer. But if I camp, then I can do longer days, which means I might get to Nice too soon and be stuck paying for an expensive hotel for a few nights until the flight home. Or carrying all the gear/bad weather etc might break me and I miss the flight. None of those are acceptable options to me, so until I've got them sorted so I can guarantee to do it 99.5% RIGHT, I'm simply not committing to doing it.

If you know you’re going to complete something, where’s the challenge

Fine, but I'd advise against using this in your application to race the Yorkshire three peaks cyclo-cross. Likewise if I thought I might be a liability (for mates on a challenge or for events folks) I'd rather give it a miss. That's what I meant about wanting to be at least 90% sure I'd not DNF.

I’d imagine that for some folks the challenge is all in the prep, and the race is just the culmination of months of work. Success in the race – whether that’s a podium or  top 10 or just finishing reinforces the fact that your prep worked the way you wanted it to.

This is a good point. Sometimes the fact you're unsure of whether you can do it focusses you or motivates you with the prep (fear factor) so that in the end, you can. Not being sure of it until the end makes it something hugely rewarding and you can end up with a reset sense of what you're capable off, during both planning and execution.
For me it seems to all come down to motivation at the start - I have to want to do it and get something out of visualising the end, even if I'm not sure I can get there. Sometimes I wish I could find that kind of motivation more often or for a wider range of things... settle with being happy to have found it from time to time because the lessons are worth a lot.

Do you really want to do whatever it is - I mean really deep down - if you do you will probably succeed. 

I am about to embark on a year long fundraising challenge with a target that is on the face of this really hard to achieve. But I absolutely believe it is possible so I am going to try my damnedest to get there. If I don't there will be egg on my face, but no life threatening consequences or liabilities for others, so whilst the personal stakes feel quite high in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't matter.

But I have a plan, I believe it is possible and most importantly I really want to do it, so I most likely will.

Go for it. 

Some great contributions in this thread - thanks very much. Looks like we've a full spectrum of thoughts too. I don't do spontaneous at all, ruling out some of the more adventurous approaches. I think @nickc caught me really well with this comment...

I’d imagine that for some folks the challenge is all in the prep, and the race is just the culmination of months of work. Success in the race – whether that’s a podium or  top 10 or just finishing reinforces the fact that your prep worked the way you wanted it to.

It shouldn't be assumed that I never want to challenge myself and I've frequently done so. I think it's just that my approach is one of incremental "improvement", built on success and of undertaking proper training, employing thought-out logistics and preparing for "all" eventualities so that by the time I'm facing the final act, I'm very confident that I'll come through it.

That's not to say that I can't see the value in the more Space X approach 🙂 <br /><br /><br />

I did my first half marathon off the back of a 8.1 mile run the weekend before. All other runs to that point had been 3 to 5 mile social affairs.
So with that in mind if you can do half the distance the thrill of the event might pull you through…

Of course a suburban half in spring in the Home Counties was quite well attended, there was always someone in sight to chase/stay ahead of; I imagine you are aiming for something a tad more wild and challenging in Aviemore in winter?

I heard recently, and thought it was quite good, 

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right. 

Never surrender, stand up and fight some more!

If it's something that's going to outside my ability I use it as a scouting run and then pace like a bastard.

Not the same as cycling, IMO, because after a while when running your body will eventually break, you will destroy something. However, when cycling you can just keep plodding along more or less indefinitely as long as your setup is right and your arse is in good shape.

That’s me, that is! I would never, ever take part in anything involving running - I know for a fact that I’m just not up to it, so even attempting to run any sort of distance would be pointless. Especially these days.
However, once on a bike I could happily plod along, knowing I’d never be at the front, but I wouldn’t be at the back either. I did the Salisbury Plain Challenge once, the 25k part, and it was bloody cold and a struggle, but I finished it, and was happy to have done so. Didn’t do it again, though.
I’ve taken up archery, and during the winter we use facilities at the Royal Signals base in Colerne, under competition rules - I only started in August, and not had my own kit long, since the beginning of the month, so I’m not expecting to do that well, but having a process to follow, and a scoring system that shows progress, it’s giving me focus on something that I can actually do, physically, which I’ve never done before.
I won’t be representing my country in the Commonwealth Games or the Olympics anytime soon, though… 🤣

i am in the give it a go camp.   what is the worst that can happen, you dont succeed.    does it matter ?

you may suprise yourself and complete the task.

When you're 85 or 95 or 105 and in a care home and not able to go to the bathroom unaided, let alone start such a event, would you prefer to know that you never tried when you had the opportunity?

Coulda Shoulda Woulda.

Get entered, try your best, and if you do come up short then (a) know you did your best, and (b) learn from it so you can go again next time, stronger.

(1st time I did an Iron distance triathlon I didn't know whether I'd finish or if my legs would just collapse at 20 miles in on the marathon, or if Id be puking, or my digestive system give up, etc.  There is no way of simulating doing a marathon off the back of a 2.4 mile swim and 112 mile bike ride, except by doing a 2.4 mile swim then a 112 mile bike ride then going to run 26+ miles !!!  I'd got to a max of 18 miles running before that (and never the same day as a big bike ride).  But I decided its better to try and fail on something not 1% of the population can be arsed to attempt,  than get to my death bed in 20/30/40 years and wish I'd tried when I had the chance.  And it all came good. It was hard, my legs hurt for days after, but risking the chance of failure meant I had a day to always remember.  And several more of them subsequently too - humans can do SO much more than they think they can.

In all of it just remember to smile, chat with others en route, and keep your sense of humour- being miserable will not help on the day.

Not the same as cycling, IMO, because after a while when running your body will eventually break, you will destroy something. However, when cycling you can just keep plodding along more or less indefinitely as long as your setup is right and your arse is in good shape.

Dunno, I did a 200mile ultra a month ago, and apart from blisters I didn't break. After a while you just start plodding along, same as on a bike. FWIW I entered that event knowing there was a fairly high chance of failure - less than 50%, but definitely non-zero. But I like that aspect about ultra events, there are so many things that can go wrong, and knowing how to overcome them is all part of the fun...

Anyway assuming it's an ultra, I'd say go for it. Learn a bit about yourself, and how you adapt to adversity.

A real challenge is one that you don't know you can finish. that when you get the biggest feeling of achievement.

My first 100k MTB marathon was on a horrible day in horrible conditions, took me forever and I was barely 100 places above last finisher so I was really glum. A wise friend pointed out that 300 DNF'd, 200 DNS'd so I was actually about half way up the list of people who'd committed to the event. He also added, looking round the office, "how many others do you know who even entered? You beat them as well!". It's how you look at it and how you choose to measure success.

My first 100k MTB marathon was on a horrible day in horrible conditions, took me forever and I was barely 100 places above last finisher so I was really glum.

Yeah, the last race I tried, I came in 18th out of 20 finishers from a starting grid of about 120. The weather was shit, it was snowing on one side of the course, but sunny on the other. I crashed three times on the first lap, tyres just turned into 3" slicks with claggy mud, the descents were just a ski race. I gave up counting the crashes after my 10th crash, stopped even trying to go fast, just focused on finishing. About every third or fourth lap the leaders would tear past me, but that's the only other riders I saw. It was quite puzzling, I just spend hours riding around alone wondering where everyone else was. Then, after I finished, I realized that nearly everyone else just packed up and went home because of the weather.

I normally felt good after finishing a race, but that one was just miserable, I couldn't feel my feet, could barely even stand. Got busy with career after that, could never be bothered to race again, those hours of plodding around in frozen muck were so miserable that I lost any interest. However, if you just stick at it and finish the race, you will do better than most people can manage. Just remembering that I finished that race gives me a sense of accomplishment, despite how utterly miserable it was.

Some years ago, I, and a group of my friends, entered a charity bike challenge (not a race!) up a big local hill. I'd climbed that hill several times before and had a good idea of effort levels required (though no hope in hell of "winning" even amongst my group of friends).

Anyway, on the day of the event, it was absolutely pissing it down and very cold. I didn't bother getting out of bed, though all my friends did, and all except me rode the event (some in a near hypothermic state). Of course, they all took the piss out of me for wimping out but, you know what, it didn't bother me in the slightest! 

I don't know what that says about my psychology - possibly I'm a born-loser but comfortable enough with myself that I'm not doubting my manliness 😄

OK, so I read all the comments. Thanks. Interesting to see a range of attitudes on display, some I obviously align with some more than others. I took a bit of a gamble and entered the Dava Way 50km Ultra, happy that if I didn't make it to the end, I'd maybe find out something about myself along the way. The event was today (11th) and not only did I make it to the end, I actually felt quite strong and was passing many a tired runner in the last 13km or so. I finished first in my age category so even have a wee trophy of my success. I'll see if this engenders a bit of a sea change in my attitude  -  I've still to look that failure in the face.

It's just a training run or you're reccying the course for next time.