Whilst Andrew is still fighting on technicalities...
source?
bbc
Just hitting the news now
On 5 of the 6 counts of trafficking.
Lets hope this now leads to her spilling the beans on the rich and powerful. Ex presidents Trump and Clinton, randy andy, and many of "masters of the universe" from wall street.
Dark deeds by some nasty people
Lets hope this now leads to her spilling the beans on the rich and powerful
I'd say her silence thus far says that's unlikely.
She must have a huge amount of dirt on some very important people.... the fact that she hasn't used it thus far is interesting - maybe she'll use it to get her sentence reduced? Dunno how it works.
Apparently she's looking at a minimum of 40 and a maximum of 65 years.
She must have a huge amount of dirt on some very important people…. the fact that she hasn’t used it thus far is interesting – maybe she’ll use it to get her sentence reduced? Dunno how it works.
That's exactly how it works... Albeit the threat of her actually spilling any beans means she'll likely "commit suicide" sooner than later of course!
If she wants to live, she'll have to keep her gob shut and live her life out behind bars!
That’s exactly how it works… Albeit the threat of her actually spilling any beans means she’ll likely “commit suicide” sooner than later of course!
Not sure that would ever be a reality. Once the cat is out of the bag so to speak, her safety would be paramount for the prosecution.
She's a dead facilitator walking. Jeff 'suicide by hanging', sorry about the CCTV malfunction, thought he was da man. Mere bit players to the truly privileged, with much to lose. Andrew Windsor, William Clinton and Donald Trump won't go down for Bob's sideshow daughter. She's as good as dead.
Pretty sure this won't be the end of the saga.
She'll appeal and appeal and claim a mistrial due to conditions during her incarceration meaning she couldn't mount an effective defence.
This has also left me wondering what will happy to Prince Andrew. Omg was Jive Honey Jive right all along?!?!
This is a very interesting read.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/03/jeffrey-epstein-200303
“Epstein is known about town as a man who loves women—lots of them, mostly young. Model types have been heard saying they are full of gratitude to Epstein for flying them around, and he is a familiar face to many of the Victoria’s Secret girls. One young woman recalls being summoned by Ghislaine Maxwell to a concert at Epstein’s town house, where the women seemed to outnumber the men by far. “These were not women you’d see at Upper East Side dinners,” the woman recalls. “Many seemed foreign and dressed a little bizarrely.” This same guest also attended a cocktail party thrown by Maxwell that Prince Andrew attended, which was filled, she says, with young Russian models. “Some of the guests were horrified,” the woman says.”
“Also on the list of admirers are former senator George Mitchell and a gaggle of distinguished scientists, most of whom Epstein has helped fund in recent years. They include Nobel Prize winners Gerald Edelman and Murray Gell-Mann, and mathematical biologist Martin Nowak. When these men describe Epstein, they talk about “energy” and “curiosity,” as well as a love for theoretical physics that they don’t ordinarily find in laymen. Gell-Mann rather sweetly mentions that “there are always pretty ladies around” when he goes to dinner chez Epstein, and he’s under the impression that Epstein’s clients include the Queen of England. Both Nowak and Dershowitz were thrilled to find themselves shaking the hand of a man named “Andrew” in Epstein’s house. “Andrew” turned out to be Prince Andrew, who subsequently arranged to sit in the back of Dershowitz’s law class.”
“Some of the businessmen who dine with him at his home—they include newspaper publisher Mort Zuckerman, banker Louis Ranieri, Revlon chairman Ronald Perelman, real-estate tycoon Leon Black, former Microsoft executive Nathan Myhrvold, Tom Pritzker (of Hyatt Hotels), and real-estate personality Donald Trump…”
Lets hope this now leads to her spilling the beans on the rich and powerful. Ex presidents Trump and Clinton, randy andy, and many of “masters of the universe” from wall street.
This is the thing, we've all got very fixated about the civil case against Andrew, but there's a potentially huge amount of powerful people across the world who could be pulled into this.
The fact that the girls have not been speaking out more makes me wonder if they were waiting to see how the trial went, if their silence has been bought already, or possibly, the big names who were at these parties knew what was going on but weren't directly involved, other than Prince Andrew that we know of so far.
She’s definitely not built for jail, don’t think she’s got any real information or stories that the press and public are hoping for in all honesty, so this will just end quietly I think.
She’s definitely not built for jail, don’t think she’s got any real information or stories that the press and public are hoping for in all honesty, so this will just end quietly I think
She went to boarding school. She'll handle prison better than you might think.
As for not got any real information. Really? I'm far from a conspiracy theorist but she spent the best part of three decades as the facilitator for a man who consorted with a wide array of wealthy and privileged men, whilst running a casual sex operation in which she was proved complicit. The idea that she doesn't have dirt on people is laughable
And who did the beeb wheel out to discuss the case last night? One of the accused. Oh dear.
Maybe they'll go for a Michael Cohen-style 'house arrest' because of Covid (did all the inmates get this privilege?). You bet Y-front Dershovitz is giving plenty of free legal advice.
How long until she is found dead in her cell, killed by something she absolutely did not have before and with a suspicious absence of cctv footage and guards
She's been pushed under the bus I reckon.
Good to see. My work involves investigating the sexual abuse of children. The damage to the victims is harrowing.
My understanding of American justice system is that if she was going to spill the beans she would have done so well before she got to court via a plea deal so I'm afraid this is unlikely to be the downfall of the 'Illuminati'.
The 97 pages of her little black book would make interesting reading; why have they not been used so far?
As yet, there is still no credible explanation for epstein's wealth.
Follow the money is 100% applicable here as it will undoubtedly implicate others.
She’s been pushed under the bus I reckon.
I feel I should qualify this. I meant that while she's patently guilty of the crimes and should be punished, I think that the speed of the trial might suggest that strings may have been pulled or favours called in to prevent any more incriminating details coming to light <cough> Andrew </cough>. It's ****ing rotten to the core.
I think her silence is tied to staying alive. She saw what happened to Epstein. Clearly the British secret services have been protecting Andy throughout all of this and I suspect the us secret services will want to protect the office of President
How have the British Secret Service been protecting Andrew?
Not saying I don’t think they have, just curious to know if there’s anything pointing to make this look like a fact?
Clearly the British secret services have been protecting Andy throughout all of this...
"Clearly"?
Pretty tragic that the spectator put so much effort into defending her, presumably just because she's one of the elite
https://twitter.com/marcusjdl/status/1476319236830248960?t=xCfPDEiLJIk3BYFMD_6y8A&s=19
The fact that the black book stuff has been sealed, that she said she wouldn't sing and the speed of the trial may well point to her being treated as leniently as possible. Was reading this morning how she was a victim blah blah of abuse by her father. She'll do a few years then be let out on the grounds of eg dementia like the Guinness trial fella over here (who then went on a very lucrative speech tour).
Clearly the British secret services have been protecting Andy throughout all of this and I suspect the us secret services will want to protect the office of President
There's a whole load of people in power protecting each others backs, over women, girls, drugs, money, but I'm not convinced either of the secret services are deeply involved, so be interested in what sources you are basing that on.
*Guinness trial fella: 'FORMER Guinness chief Ernest Saunders hates to be known as the only person in medical history who fully recovered from Alzheimer's' (Ind.) She might be the second.
And who did the beeb wheel out to discuss the case last night? One of the accused. Oh dear.
She’ll do a few years then be let out on the grounds of eg dementia like the Guinness trial fella over here (who then went on a very lucrative speech tour).
Ah yes! The only man in history to recover from demantia?
Clearly the British secret services have been protecting Andy throughout all of this…
I'd want my money back if I were him!
She’ll appeal and appeal and claim a mistrial due to conditions during her incarceration meaning she couldn’t mount an effective defence.
Almost certainly and does sound like a valid denfense.
BillMC
Full Member
*Guinness trial fella: ‘FORMER Guinness chief Ernest Saunders hates to be known as the only person in medical history who fully recovered from Alzheimer’s’ (Ind.) She might be the second.
The poor guy is still struggling on 30 years later
I'm still cringing about the BBC fronting Dershowitz, sans context, to pour scorn on one of the victims. Did no-one on the useless production team even google him?
My understanding of American justice system is that if she was going to spill the beans she would have done so well before she got to court
Informed person on Twitter agrees.
(Credentials: I flipped dozens of people at the SDNY, was co-chief of the organized crime unit, eventually taught new prosecutors the course on how cooperation works)
https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status/1476397267053682688?s=20
She isn't a "traditional" criminal though, she is an over privileged predator, no doubt so far convinced of her own righteousness. The verdict may start to chip away at her self belief and/or lead her to lash out and take down others.
But as point 3 above, have they got the appetite to lower Maxwell's sentence to go after some high profile people who may win cases against them due to lacking evidence
I was thinking less of a deal with the authorities and more her just putting out what she knows into public, as keeping it secret is no longer of any value to her if she is already spending the rest of her life in prison.
I was thinking less of a deal with the authorities and more her just putting out what she knows into public, as keeping it secret is no longer of any value to her if she is already spending the rest of her life in prison.
I guess there is the risk that putting it out there will shorten her prison stay...
I'm struggling a little. According to Rachel Johnson and numerous Spectator articles, Ghislaine Maxwell is deserving of sympathy and leniency, because the poor little love lost her dad in a tragic boating accident and then selflessly trafficked underage girls - children - so that wealthy folk could do what they wanted with them.
On the flipside, the Spectator never fails to bring up the subject of grooming gangs in Rochdale as they demand that migrants (like Robert Maxwell for example) can be "sent back".
She must have convinced some powerful and influential people that she's not going to cooperate with the authorities.
It does feel a little suspicious really. Defence seems to have been a couple of people who didn't see something happen in a different place altogether and a couple of employees who thought she was a nice person plus a whole bunch of 'Jeffrey was the bad person' even though the charges against her were about her part in the whole thing. I guess if you know you are unlikely to win then you keep quite and hope the right people pull the right strings for you later
But, I might also be overthinking it and I'm not overly inclined to believe in a hierarchy of super smart overlords controlling everything because they do seem crap at everything else.
In Priti Patel's world, she could be deported to Czech Republic as her dad was from Czechoslovakia. So the Spectator could still run the "send her back" headlines.
She must have convinced some powerful and influential people that she’s not going to cooperate with the authorities.
Or, they've convinced her not to talk, with the threat of "not hanging herself" looming.
I dare say, her life inside will be far different than you or I, had we been convicted of the same offences
Funny. She seemed a lot different when I knew her.
There again she was about 15 at the time.
with the threat of “not hanging herself” looming.
Very conspiratorial 😕 I think to many here are pushing this fantasy, but in truth its nothing like that and nobody secretly murdered Epstein, because he wasnt the only one who knew all the details and Maxwell herself went to trial. If murder was the cause and not suicide, she'd be dead too, and not brought to trial, not allowed to speak, and all the documented evidence would have been destroyed.
Eddie- am I right in thinking you're from a press/print background?
She expected a sizeable inheritance but dearest daddy was a crook so it didn't happen. Grew up with domineering, exploitative, egocentrentic father.
Epstein could provide the money she wanted and felt she had been deprived of.
A 'socialite' with contacts but no money who willingly sold herself and then groomed innocent young girls to maintain access to epstein's money.
His attitudes and behaviours - other than sexual predation - resembled her father so she felt comfortable.
Once she was on the hook and had been bought she was nothing more than epstein's facilitator.
Am I sympathetic? Absolutely not; she should be sentenced to the fullest extent of US law.
I still say - follow the money; where did epstein get his money? By all accounts it wasn't earned.
Yes. I worked for Maxwell senior in the 70s but when i left I ended up in a design company and worked on her bedroom.
Wierd world.
My question is why on earth do parents of those girls (not adult age) let them go to another country (with strange adults) I don't know.
Also why do those girls kept returning (I assume) when they were not forced (not sure if they were forced)?
What are their parents thinking at that time?
I think to many here are pushing this fantasy, but in truth its nothing like that and nobody secretly murdered Epstein, because he wasnt the only one who knew all the details and Maxwell herself went to trial. If murder was the cause and not suicide, she’d be dead too, and not brought to trial, not allowed to speak, and all the documented evidence would have been destroyed.
Aye, tempting as conspiracy theories always are, if "they" needed Epstein dead there's no way Maxwell would have have been allowed to live this long.
My question is why on earth do parents of those girls (not adult age) let them go to another country (with strange adults) I don’t know.
Also why do those girls kept returning (I assume) when they were not forced (not sure if they were forced)?
What are their parents thinking at that time?
Bless.
Kids like that don't have parents around them to stop them.
She went to boarding school. She’ll handle prison better than you might think.
Oh aye, is that an informed opinion or one you read?
My question is why on earth do parents of those girls (not adult age) let them go to another country (with strange adults) I don’t know
That sort of stuff has been going on since Tess of the d’Urbervilles
Allegedly, a lot of ‘activity’ was going on in Florida, at some place called Mar a Lago; some sort of posh club I gather…
How have the British Secret Service been protecting Andrew?
Not saying I don’t think they have, just curious to know if there’s anything pointing to make this look like a fact?
He is a senior member of the royal family. He has close protection officers, people he spends time with will be vetted to ensure they are no threat to him or his parents through him. I find it so unlikely that the security services didn’t know what he was upto where and when that it’s not credible to suggest anything else
My question is why on earth do parents of those girls (not adult age) let them go to another country (with strange adults) I don’t know.
Because sometimes children want or need to get away from their parents for the sake of their own welfare. Sometimes the parents don't care.
Some of those children went on and accomplished something - they got justice. One of those who had their childhood stolen wound up as a Psychologist and a survivor
Also why do those girls kept returning (I assume) when they were not forced (not sure if they were forced)?
This is why we have an age of informed consent. As you can see, that wasn't enough to prevent them from being jetted off to be preyed upon.
What are their parents thinking at that time?
The parents' either weren't thinking and didn't care, or they did care and had the possibility of weighty defamation suits hanging in the air over them.
If your response to all that is "My god, how to we prevent young women from being trafficked and exploited?", then it's the correct response.
Nasty fatal case of Covid coming her way as soon as the dust settles, I reckon, she got too much dirt on the big names .
I would hope she's got the dirt in brown envelopes held by various lawyers to be sent to all and sundry in the case of her death.
Chrismac, I’m my opinion, the security services would only hand the information over to a court when asked directly. I would imagine they have the information on his whereabouts.
I would also suggest the security services may have not be 100% aware of the full detail of what JE was up to.
Again I’m only guessing here, but I’d think they Security Services probably thought the girls were just paid escorts as opposed to being underage children who were being trafficked.
I could well be wrong, just don’t see it as some big conspiracy.
I wonder how many more might come forward? I hope that they get their say too.
So apparently the BBC thought that Alan Dershowitz would be a good choice for an impartial analyst slot.
This Alan Dershlwitz.
WTAF
Just think if trump gets elected again he can pardon her.
Just think if trump gets elected again he can pardon her.
I thought the Presedential pardon only applied to Federal crimes (i.e. tried in a Federal court) but I thought Maxwell had been prosecuted at (New York) state-level.
(I could be wrong on both counts!)
Trump does what trump wants 🤑
She must have a plan and it's not rotting in jail at least the rumors of her old man still being around should stop as no way would he let her go to jail.
It's like a plup fiction book
Dad ex spy/criminal jumps off boat
Daughter convicted and guilty of worse maybe.
Perverts.
Lizard people.
It's like a sick Scooby Doo episode.
Maybe it was old man **** in a mask after all.
And all along she only needed someone to love.
I read Trump being referred to as a "real estate 'personality'" in an article the other day, that's gotta sting his ego a bit, hahah!
Has she agreed to share her 'little black book' of who, when and where yet?
Has she agreed to share her ‘little black book’ of who, when and where yet?
I imagine it's a tough choice, stay shtum and she'll be in jail for the rest of her life, possibly a nicer jail than the average crip/blood from south central would be in, but still not a nice prospect for a woman of her age who is used to a decadent lifestyle.
Or, spill the beans and get off, or a much shorter term, and hope she doesn't get assasinated.
A hobsons choice, really.
she's going to be a target anyway "if she can dish the dirt" her best option is to if it can buy her some modicum of protection, can't imagine she'd get much in a state penitentiary .
I wonder who on the list will be able to do much? I imagine that if there was serious power there she would have rung their phone off the wall already.
All that remains are ones who will be 'shamed' like Andrew (if he understood the concept). I guess they could offer her a silk lined cell to be quiet or a silk lined casket if she speaks.
I guess it also depends on who state prosecutors are interested in.
