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Anyone else see Matt Dawson on BBC Breakfast earlier?
He was promoting Lymes disease awareness after he became infected when he got bitten in a London Park.As a result he ended up having a couple of heart operations. 😯
I didn't realise Lyme's had spread to London Parks.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40973709
Ah that explains the phone call I've just had then...
Apparently someone on telly this morning advising the general public to ask for blood tests after tick bites....
My wife caught limes disease from a bite in a London Park 3 years ago
I was talking to our Vet about this the day, while getting the hound topped up.
Is there a human preventive vaccine? My work puts me at risk as well.
Off to google.
Edit, er no.
Known that Richmond Park has issues with Lyme disease bearing ticks. The deer are carriers of the disease apparently and the ticks transfer it from deer to humans when they bite. There are signs about the risk of Lymes Disease posted in the Park.
My colleague ended up having a replacement heart valve and pacemaker following getting Lymes,
anyone know how long it takes to show up? got bitten a few weeks back now, got it out quick, and haven't really thought about it till today. Already have a dodgy heart so its a touch worrying...
unlikely theres an issue though..
was talking to our Vet about this the day, while getting the hound topped up.
Is there a human preventive vaccine? My work puts me at risk as well.
There was but there were all sorts sorts of BS stories about it pedalled by that champion of [s]common[/s] commoner sense.... the general public.... so the company pulled the product due to a lack of financial viability.
And now Lymies everwhere like to blame the pharmo-industrial complex for all their problems.
There are quite a few threads here over the years.
I am glad it's getting some profile. I was first made aware of the disease when living in the East Coast of the US in 1990. The public and medical profession have been taking it seriously there for decades
I spend a lot of time hanging out in 'ticky' areas where other people get bitten a lot (as do the dogs) but I have never, ever had a tick. They just don't like me. I don't take this for granted though and am very careful to check.
From a dog point of view my dog has never had a tick since giving her Bravecto. It is very good. If it works that well for mutts it must be possible to release a human variant*
I am not a pharma scientist.
Frank, that is because the neurotics who think every doctor is wrong except for the one quack they read about on a forum and thus believe they have chronic lyme would complain that the vaccine gave them chronic lyme as well.
Developing one for humans is seen as a financial own goal by many pharmaceutical companies business /sales teams and a potential public relations own goal by their Marketing /PR teams.
Basically it's not worth the bother - the big lucrative market for novel drugs is the east. Eg Malarial vaccines.
Prevention being better than cure ..can I point you in the direction of a product that I used to sell on behalf of a German company ( Balistol).
The video was made in German ..but you will get the idea..
It's available to buy online ..a little more expensive than other insect repellent products ..but it also acts as a mild sunscreen ( factor 6 ) and a sports massage oil ..its also Deet free..
Thank me later
Smidge is very effective against ticks - as is anything with a decent concentration of Saltidin/Picardin
Top tip: ignore Tom
+1
surprised it took him 7 posts to start trolling
Just soak all your outdoor gear in Permethrin and hope your cock doesnt fall off.
Bigjim, it's not trolling if you're right. 😆
Scotroutes +1
Picardin is on the garage shelf next to bike shoes
Having seen the damage caused to several people by Lymes, taking a reasonable amount of care seems a simple step + not getting bitten by horse flies is a big bonus....
Ta, ordered some Smidge. Never been bitten by a tick but it's always at the back of my mind now whenever I'm anywhere with sheep/deer/etc!
[b]Tom[/b] a serious q for you - what would you do with people who suspect they've been bitten by a tick, or have the EM rash, or people who're experiencing deteriorating health where the NHS is unable to diagnose or unwilling to investigate?
I could give you some insight into my life but fear you'd be unwilling to listen.
My husband had a bite from a tick which developed the 'bulls-eye' rash. We'd been up in Scotland camping (no, don't do the 'camping' gag, I've heard it so many times...!) and there were deer about.
He went to the doctor's who diagnosed Lymes.
The doctor prescribed antibiotics.
My husband took said antibiotics.
My husband is OK.
No quackery needed, no "mavericks" that appear on their own websites peddling miracle cures or owt.
I'm quite new to this, but having found a tick on me once and having very carefully prised it off I was watchful and wary of the area around the bite for a bit. Nothing bad occurred, I am glad to say.
What puzzles me about this and any Lyme Disease thread is why is Tom_W1987 always on them either trolling or naysaying? What's in it for him? Does he have employees/colleagues who he suspects of sandbagging and blaming it on Lyme Disease or something?
It's a pretty mysterious and worrying condition, so I guess it has a 'folklore' element to its general perception, but I cannot fathom why anyone would want to shut down discussion.
What gives?
@dannyh I think it is to do with this: [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34579423 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34579423[/url]
Tom is strident in his dismissal of it (chronic lyme's) yet equally on the other side C_G believes in it without clinical evidence.
Me, I think the jury is out and it is for the people who make the positive claim to provide the evidence. Hopefully with the people who claim to have this condition research can be done to find if it is an after-effect of Lymes or something else that has occurred (e.g. an opportunistic infection at the same time, a knocked immune system, too much Scooby Doo* or even Z-rays from space). Unfortunately people tend to be somewhat fixated on one thing (an extreme example: autism and vaccination) so if/when this condition is understood there will be even more arguments.
Hence for Tom and C_G, I tend to ignore both of them.
* - not possible
(no, don't do the 'camping' gag, I've heard it so many times...!)
You think that little of us Adam? 😥
Long term or chronic Lyme is a real affliction, but the nature of the disease lends itself to co-option by those suffering from fatigue illnesses in general. These include genuine people who are desperately looking for answers to what's wrong with them, as well as ignorant cranks who think modern life is killing them. This latter group includes the usual alternative medicine charlatans who have made Lyme their illness de jour, and are well entrenched with 'cures' that the government doesn't want you to know about.What puzzles me about this and any Lyme Disease thread is why is Tom_W1987 always on them either trolling or naysaying? What's in it for him? Does he have employees/colleagues who he suspects of sandbagging and blaming it on Lyme Disease or something?It's a pretty mysterious and worrying condition, so I guess it has a 'folklore' element to its general perception, but I cannot fathom why anyone would want to shut down discussion.
What gives?
Tom_W1987 can speak for himself, but I would guess feels the need to challenge the sort of anti-NHS garbage habitually posted by cinnamon_girl, and doesn't care about offending those genuinely suffering from Lyme problems or fatigue conditions in general.
I'm curious. That BBC linky posted by Adam, dated Oct '15 has the RIPL chap from Porton Down commenting on the need for research into co-infections. I do wonder where they've got to with that.
[img][url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/35911847873_979f7ec072_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/35911847873_979f7ec072_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][/img]
We've just been at our caravan on a site with loads of sheep and my wife now has this. Told her to go to docs in the morning.
oosh yeah that's worth a trip to the gp. I remember working on a land management plan years ago which used sheep as "tick mops" , not sure if anyone consulted the sheep on their part in it!
@AdamW - good that your hubbie has been given treatment and must be a relief that he's OK. Having the EM rash makes it so much easier to treat and there's various estimates as to how many have the rash. Some say 50%, some say two thirds and this is where it becomes tricky when there is no rash.
May I just pick up on your claim that I believe in chronic Lyme without clinical evidence. I've never said that, of course there needs to be clinical evidence. Feel free to ignore me obviously. 😉
I've had Lyme (at least) twice. Antibiotics seem to have done the trick on both occasions.
And there's no need for a sheep as a "tick mop" when I'm around, I habitually pick them off me (three last week when out for a run).
Tom_W1987 can speak for himself, but I would guess feels the need to challenge the sort of anti-NHS garbage habitually posted by [redacted]
Indeed. I am torn because as a doctor I want to butt out of these conversations, since I feel my involvement could only reinforce the rigid views held by some that the medical profession isn't giving them enough credence. On the other hand there's a lot of questionable opinion offered and if you read the forums on here (and many other places) you'd get a very skewed view offered by a very vocal minority.
At any rate, I am not an infectious diseases specialist. My advice to anyone reading this - be wary, be skeptical (of everything, on both sides).
My son and I have both been treated for lymes this year with antibiotics. We are in a tick hotspot so the drs didn't hesitate to give us antibiotics. At the time I went in, the drs said they were seeing bullseye rashes daily. Some folk still had the tick embedded, so it makes you wonder about the general level of public knowledge.
One point of note was that my son felt back to 100% shortly after the antibiotics, so 4 weeks in total since the offending tick. I felt good at 4 weeks, but then went downhill again with the flu symptoms. Got tested at 6 weeks, but was clear. Then by c 7 weeks was ok again, luckily in time for pivot 24:12, albeit my lap times were down a bit due to the inactivity over the poorly period. Must be just my old git body taking longer after the antibiotics. Still, it's a bit of a slog from the tick bite so prevention is better than cure. Get slathering that smidge/similar repellent on folks.
I've probably posted this before. We live in East Devon and are out and about on the commons, footpaths etc.. We regularly pull ticks off ourselves and the dog(s). Nine years ago, I woke in the night with a burning sensation in my leg, assumed it was nettles/bramble rash from earlier but decided to look. I had a number of tiny ticks buried in my leg, we pulled them out. I really recommend having a tick puller in your first aid kit. Went to the docs first thing, blood tests found positive for Lymes and I was put on a significant dose of penicillin, told the same dose as for syphalis!!?! That produced it own problems, (including getting sunburnt if you look out of a window) but cleared the Lymes after being pretty unwell for weeks. Took quite a bit longer to fully recover.
Even more wary now and encourage others to be careful.
+1 for having tick pullers and check yourself/ family every day and get the ****ers out promptly. The ones that caused us problems had been in for a good few days.
I'm guessing despite lots of livestock, and a couple of deer herds roaming about, I am either lucky or not in a high-tick area. As always outside but never picked up a tick yet*
Is there like a tick map or something? To show concentrations round the country?
*touch wood
The Big Tick Project has map based purely on survey/reporting data.
The places I ride and overgrowth I ride through over the years, often I'm surprised I've never picked one up. Or have I? No bull's-eye stuff but odd occasions of weird illness that clears up and on and off fatigue. I would guess if it's Lymes I'd properly know about it.
Question is how do you get the tick onto you if you are cycling, running or walking?
Did you sit on the grass, on the ground without grass or lean on the tree etc?
I was watching Youbtue where one of the "researcher" in the US/Canada(they were talking about Lymes) was walking through a small woodland and brushing passed the plants while walking. Later on he got about 8 ticks on him. In his case it is understandable that he would pick some up because he was brushing passed the plants.
But how do you guys get them?
I had a tick some years ago and read up on Lymes disease as I was worried I may have been infected. One article advised the main process of contracting the disease is the method of extraction of the tick. Basically, you can discharge the guts into your skin if you squeeze it. Apparently if you cover it completely with candle wax, it un-buries itself due to lack of oxygen so reduces the chance of infection.
I've heard that that does the opposite and it then does empty itself in it's dying moments.
Tick tweezers appear to be the best way to remove them with and anti-clockwise twist.
Indeed. I am torn because as a doctor I want to butt out of these conversations, since I feel my involvement could only reinforce the rigid views held by some that the medical profession isn't giving them enough credence. On the other hand there's a lot of questionable opinion offered and if you read the forums on here (and many other places) you'd get a very skewed view offered by a very vocal minority.
Superficial - guessing this refers to me? Let me explain, I've had years of worsening health with a broad range of symptoms. Not one NHS doctor has said "I don't understand what's going on here but we'll try and get to the bottom of this". I've been repeatedly fobbed off, been subjected to casual misogyny, been patted on the head etc etc. I was even told by an NHS consultant that he wasn't interested in my symptoms.
I'd figured out that I had Lyme before I was tested and worked out that I've had this for at least 5 years.
Yep, I get what you're saying re forums and people do need to be very careful. But there's a lot of desperation out there, in fact this morning on another (non-Lyme) forum I use there's 3 individuals asking about Lyme disease testing following tick bites.
I'm now being denied any referrals by my GP surgery as the Partners have instructed GPs not to do anything to help me. They clearly believe it's a somatoform disorder.
So we have a situation whereby improving my health depends on my ability to pay. This is a dangerous road to go down and have in fact spoken with my MP.
Please join in these discussions, it would be both helpful and insightful. 🙂
kevj - Member
I had a tick some years ago and read up on Lymes disease as I was worried I may have been infected. One article advised the main process of contracting the disease is the method of extraction of the tick. Basically, you can discharge the guts into your skin if you squeeze it. Apparently if you cover it completely with candle wax, it un-buries itself due to lack of oxygen so reduces the chance of infection.
[b]NO. NO. NO.[/b]
Use tick tweezers/card/hooks.
Aye, steer clear of using Vaseline or candlrwax, use a tick hook, though I've improvised with thread around the bite area, looped around then ease the wee bugger out.
I bought some of these years ago. Not had to use them yet.
[url= https://i.imgur.com/DvhmXVI.pn g" target="_blank">
Jamie - Member
I bought some of these years ago. Not had to use them yet.
Same here. I guess despite all the deer round here, P-town and its environs isn't yet a hotbed of tick activity.
[url= http://www.tickencounter.org/faq/tick_habitat ]Some info here regarding tick habitat[/url] Tick tube is interesting.
If you can stand listening to Jeremy Vine on R2 he's got Matt Dawson on the show talking about his Lyme's experience.
I've also got those 'tick twisters'in my pack,fortunately I've not had to use them.I also keep covered up,long sleeves & long trousers when I'm off road.
Hmmm. Unfortunately for me, one of the few people I find more annoying than Jeremy Vine is Matt Dawson. Listening to them together would be life-threatening.
chewkw - Member
Question is how do you get the tick onto you if you are cycling, running or walking?
By riding through vegetation, especially ferns, in my case. Probably the same for everyone else, too.
Chewy, even by your standards, that's a daft question.
It's on Radio 2 about it now
I was watching Youbtue where one of the "researcher" in the US/Canada(they were talking about Lymes) was walking through a small woodland and brushing passed the plants while walking. Later on he got about 8 ticks on him. In his case it is understandable that he would pick some up because he was [b]brushing passed the plants.[/b][b]But how do you guys get them?[/b]
You answered your own question before you asked it 🙄
Nobberinthefridge - Member
Chewy, even by your standards, that's a daft question.
Looks like Mark forgot to reboot the Spambot after the recent site issues.
But if you're riding places where you don't brush against plants... 😉
Anyway, as I said, I ride loads of places through undergrowth. More so at the moment with fern take over. Yet never a tick in all the years I've done it, as far as I know.
Yak - MemberThe Big Tick Project has map based purely on survey/reporting data.
Couldn't get to the local information, just a very low res image/
I am a bit paranoid about tick so check myself after every ride. Not found one yet - touch wood. Which I find surprising as a normally ride through common land where sheep graze.
Guardian article written by a Lyme disease sufferer:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/lyme-disease-matt-dawson-diagnose-doctors
If I remember correctly, the smaller ticks tend to live in leaf litter, they'd probably feed on small rodents and ground-feeding birds like blackbirds and pheasants. I've had them on me while working in woodland, I guess they got onto boots or trousers and climbed up.
I believe LD was fairly well known in forestry before the increase in cases.
One other point seems worth making. I've often been scratched and stabbed by the thorns of blackthorn and hawthorn. The scratches often look red and angry. Well a small tick feeding looks exactly the same, a tiny black dot on a small red swelling. It was only when I has one under the middle of my watch that I realised what it was.
Whizzing round overgrown trail at speed other day and got sharp rip on the arm from a prickly. Practically pint of blood drawn* but tiny scratch really. If there were any ticks tucking in too, maybe they drowned.
* exaggeration, but a fair bit 😀
Anyway, got friends who are a bit larger shall we say, and tend to get shredded by prickly stuff way more than those with less bulk. I wonder if there's a similar thing with ticks going on in the undergrowth. Less of a target for them to hit 😀
John Caudwell speaks out in relation to the above: