[Closed] Marriage

Finding it difficult not to be a bit cynical about other folk who are at the other end of a marriage from me!

Don't spoil the adventure for everyone else, they have to learn the hard way too.

Good legal definition of the relationship?

This. It's a contract. Although things can messy when you disagree with someone you have a written contract with, it's even worse if you didn't write the agreement down.

new bike time,

My other half wants to have the same surname as our child.

This. It’s a contract. Although things can messy when you disagree with someone you have a written contract with, it’s even worse if you didn’t write the agreement down.

Obviously the contract doesn’t work very well for most people, judging by the ones I know who have divorced. There must be better ways of doing it if it’s only to cover the legal bits.

And we all know that marriage is just a social norm, tied in with the church and tradition to an astonishing degree, considering that we like to think of ourselves as s forward thinking technological society.

I am constantly amazed that society thinks it ok that the state can dictate who they marry, how many people they marry and how.

what’s the actual point?

Because it’s the British thing to do. I never seen the point either but I am married but still don’t see the point at all.

Its an archaic hangover from times past.

It did two things - kept women under control ( promise to obey) and also the flip side of ensuring women were provided for.

Never seen the point myself.  Me and Mrs TJ do not require a bit of paper or someone elses approval to live together.

Agree completely. It’s astonishing though, the constant drip drip pressure of peers, society and family to ‘do the right thing’ when you’re in a happy, stable relationship. It’s like you have to actively find reasons* NOT to get married. And that can feel a little heartless if you’re not careful.

*having been married, this isn’t that hard. But still...

Been with the wife 21 years, the relationship and she is as fantastic as she ever was. It'd probably be the same if we hadn't married but she wanted to and that was good enough for me. I accept I'm luckier than some in this regard and if it wasn't good it'd be easier to be cynical. Plus it seems right that we (plus 2 daughters) all have the same surname.

Marriage made no difference to the relationship I have with my wife.

The "point" for me was that moving abroad, to an Islamic country, meant that we had to be married for visa reasons.  We did it, with a bash for 150 people, at 4 weeks notice and had a lot of fun.  We also celebrate anniversaries, etc, but it doesn't change anything in the relationship we have.

My other half wants to have the same surname as our child.

Anyone can change their name at any point.  Marriage doesn't have anything to do with it.

Because it’s the British thing to do

Perfectly reasonable point.

The relationship being good has nothing to do with it, it’s still a load of bollocks. Not even sure of the fuss with kids’ surnames has any bearing on it either.

Not even sure of the fuss with kids’ surnames has any bearing on it either.

For you maybe, was very important to us.

It works for some people and they would all give you lots of  very different reasons why.

In the end,I think it's all down to a bit of luck,good timing and being able to team up when life throws the big tests at you.

Been with my bird for nigh on 17 years.

Lots of friends have married in that time (generally to someone they've not known as long as I have my GF) and some of those have already gone through a divorce.

The idea of marriage has only really come up recently due to Brexit and new wanting more than just residency rights in Germany; I want the right to stay anywhere within the EU. Romantic, I know.

27 years married here.

It's been very rough at times - money, family, jobs, life in general stirring things up.

We've never been the romantic types though so had no rose-tinted visions of what marriage should be.

Relationships are hard work - in or out of marriage.

But from what I've seen the bigger and more 'romantic' the wedding - the shorter the marriage.

Sorry you and your family are going through a tough time. It is crap for everyone involved, especially the kids. It is their entire world falling apart, everything they know.

I went through a divorce many year ago. I thought my life was over, couldn't see a way past it or a way to trust anyone again.

You will hear this a lot but it does get better, time does heal, girls are still really attractive and there are some cracking good ones that you will be able to trust, when you are ready.

Not far in but...

Getting married:

On a purely personal level it was an opportunity for us (i assume the feeling is mutual) to celebrate each other in a way that, as awesome as they are, spontaneous weekends away and the like don't really do.

Less personally it was a chance to celebrate how awesome i think my wife is with other people i like and respect.

It was a good excuse for a great party, with folk we'd rarely get in the same room and a chance to say thank you to them all for where/who we are, we didn't need to get married for that but frankly i can't think of a better pretext.

Also there was something significant about standing up in front of family and friends and saying we want* this to be permanent, and declaring our feelings for each other (we're not pubic display of affection people so that was a big thing, everyone knew it already of course but there's a point at which saying something is important.)

As for being married, it's a side effect of the above really.

We're married and very happy. It works for some and not for others.

Just 'cos some of you are not happy, a bit shit at being married or just miserable buggers, don't piss on the others who are happy and for whom it works. This thread smells of bitter regrets and kittens tears.

We did get married in a pub which may have set the tone.....

For us:

1) Getting a visa

2) Public declaration of commitment to friends and family.

3) It's a ritual.  As modern as we are, some rituals still have meaning.

Happily Married for 5 years now.

My 2p:

I didn't believe in Marriage before and I don't now. I got Married because my Wife does and if she wanted a life-time commitment from me I was more than happy to do so for her..

There are some practical benefits for your partner, or you depending on who dies first in regards to tax *I think* someone always says so when I've moaned it pointless in the past.

As for other practical benefits, I can't think of any - same last name? Well a Deed poll type statement is an awful lot easier and cheaper and has the same effect - if there is some central database of people and their names it's not automatically updated by the Priest / Registrar when you get married, you still have go through the same change of name malarkey. At home we're all Joneses, which looks all respectable and upstanding I suppose but only 1 of the 4 of us has the same name we were born with - shady as **** ha ha.

I'm going to tread very closely to sexist stereotypes now, but in my limited experience, a lot more Women than Men want to get Married and, I'll stick my neck out and say the idea of a Wedding is a lot more of a draw than the idea of being Married.

Anyway, despite all the above, they can have an almost intangible effect on your relationship and life, despite really only being a contract that says you won't marry anyone else, well until you end this one. Everything can feel a bit more 'forever'.

And everyone loves a commitment yeah? Everyday people say "Oh, my life is so free and easy, I wish I had a few more commitments".

Interesting topic. We got married almost 25 years ago after being together for about 6. We'd often talked about it but I think that Mrs. C getting a job at a catholic school accelerated things a little. As others have said, we've had our ups and downs. At times it's been fantastic, others not so but we are still together and very much in love. Has the marriage certificate had any bearing on this? I personally don't think so. Mrs. C kept her maiden name when we got married. Our children have double-barrel surnames, hers then mine.

Would I encourage my children to get married? No. The expectation is massively over the top now. Stag / hen do in foreign climes. Wedding running into 10's of thousands. Complete bollocks. If they do decide to then I would hope that they go for a ceremony that means something to them and not to put on an occasion to suit everyone else.

I like the concept making a public commitment to each other but I don't like the whole circus surrounding a formal wedding.

I got divorced

I don't think I'd marry again.

It keeps you together after you should have split up.

I've been with my (also divorced) girlfriend for a couple of years now. We see each other twice a week and live in different towns. Currently no plans to change that situation and we're very much in love.

We also do sex every time we see each other - wowsers, that's new.

I divorced and then remarried the same women (still married).

Personally I see it as a complete waste of money, I didn't want to get married first time around, but its what the wife wanted and ultimately I agreed to it. About 8 years later we went through a bitter and expensive divorce. All the while though we continued to see each other, then after 2 years of being divorced we decided to try again - and now 5 years later still married........

My wife has what I consider outdated values when it comes to marriage. She just see's it as the correct way to bring up a family. For her its not about religion, its about the stability of marriage and the family unit....Which in our case is obviously a contradiction, but I do understand her logic even if in my opinion its flawed logic.

The second time around I didn't want to get married, but again it was what she wanted in terms of making amends for our past mistakes. I see it as being easier in terms of joint banking, bills, wills, life insurance etc.

Majority of blokes I know got married because they thought it was the correct thing to do because its seen as normal. I don't know of any male friend who has ever said they believe in the institution of marriage, they, like me, just went along with it.

I don't see myself as happily married, I see myself as just happy with my family, that includes my wife. I wouldn't change being with them, but I also wouldn't be bothered if we had separate names and no formal contract of marriage. As long as everything else was legally the same then I'd be just as happy.

I love being married.

It's genuinely one of the best things i've ever achieved in my life.

20 years this year after 9 years together beforehand.

And everyone loves a commitment yeah? Everyday people say “Oh, my life is so free and easy, I wish I had a few more commitments”.

Not all commitments are onerous. Sometimes it's extremely comforting to know that someone has made a huge commitment to you that they just can't skip out on because it gets a bit tricky.

I get married in a couple of weeks, don't see the point myself but she wants to, and its easier to keep her happy than call out how she cant be that good a driver if she cant see speed cameras and slow down for them, so perhaps she should just stick to the speed limit everywhere.... sorry wrong thread.

So what’s the actual point?

If you want the Government to interfere with your affairs and poke their tiny minds into your assets and family life, I'm sure it's a perfectly fine way of subsidising Lawyers and being holden to an archaic system.

HTHs

Have to add, I'm married but feeling very jaded about the whole thing.

Perchy+1

A very trying time not so long ago reaffirmed this view for me.

The church had nothing to do with our decision to marry, or the wedding. Societal pressure is pretty strong, but for me it really clear is down to the legal side.

yes the public commitment, yes the special day, yes a big (for us, not by others' measures!) knees up. All were important, and great fun.

but really the society and legal system we choose to live in provides much more protection for each of us and our children because we are married. Property rights, pensions, legal status as guardians, etc all much more straightforward when (if!) things start to go wrong.

i am more than aware that for some and especially at the time it may not seem that way when things are going wrong, and that there are clear and unjust exceptions to my positive assessment, but overall for me, it's A Good Thing.

I think the evidence that kids of married folk do better is a correlation not a causal link, and have no issue if others choose not to.

A contract to put our lives together. We were at the point of making career choices (/sacrifices) and it seemed fair that we should do this as a team looking to the future rather than two individuals who happened to be together at that point in time. Not so different from the business that we are co-directors of currently.

38 years together for me and mrsTJ - we don't need anyone elses permission.  clearly we are both committed to each other and as a staunch feminist mrs TJ finds the whole concept of marriage pretty abhorrent.  Myself I just see it as an outdated and archaic thing.  She sees it as a way of controlling women which by and large it what it is

She sees it as a way of controlling women which by and large it what it is

Yeah,maybe 38 years ago.

She sees it as a way of controlling women which by and large it what it is

Certainly hasn't been my experience.

I'd say in general that the opposite holds true. It's much more a way of women controlling men.

Some of the crap being spouted on this thread is a measure of the individuals concerned and their bad experiences and not the concept of marriage. Marriage works for some but not others. Simple.
If it doesn't work for you then fine but don't judge others you sancitmonious gits.

@tjagain - come down to Yorkshire and tell my wife that I've enslaved her and she'll laugh you out of the house (after I've made you a brew)

@perchypanther :  +1 and watch yourself 'cos @fitnessischeating is trying to take your comedy crown!

I can kinda see where TJ and his partner are coming from in that in the marriage tradition the father "gives away" his daughter to another male, almost like a transfer of property. However, I'd like to think that it's more of a statement of partnership now. At least that's how I see it.

Thats the main reason for marriage.  It may not be how you see it now but thats what it was created for.

@fitnessischeating is trying to take your comedy crown!

He's welcome to it.

My wife says it doesn't suit me anyway and I shouldn't wear it because it's inappropriate for a man my age and I look  a bit silly in it. 😉

I love being married.

Me too, 19 years.  Not sure why the marriage bit is key to the point made by OP, just sounds like relationships rather than marriage.

I was thinking the other night that I've reached a point in my life where I'm happily married (8 years+6 before), own a nice house (with mortgage), have two great kids and have a permanent job (first ever!) that I enjoy.

This could be it for me.  I'll never leave my wife and kids, house or job (until I retire).  And rather than making me restless I'm very content.  Because finding a partner, birthing kids, buying a house and getting a decent job are all quite stressful.

Whether being married or not has any bearing but it does add to the permanence.

personally think a few people above have summed it up nicely for me....I didn't see the point at all, I'm not sure I do in still in some ways, but would I go back to not being married to my wife now? no

it meant the world to her, it still does, and it still does to me that she feels that way, I didn't go into it half hearted, we were together 11 years before marriage (was young mind), I loved seeing how it made her feel on the wedding day, and surprised myself emotionally

if it makes her completely happy, content and satisfied about commitment to each other, sealed with a ring and it means that much to her, id do it again tomorrow

that said, if it was to go tits up, for whatever reason, then I doubt I would EVER get married again, infact I doubt id pretty much ever put myself through it all again, just hire a hooker once in a while and have a bookmark to pornhub on my phone 🙂

@perchypanther - if you wore some matching socks and maybe some natty y-fronts then she might come round to your way of thinking about Almost-Naked Tuesdays

dp

tj, i can understand you feeling uncomfortable with the historical patriarchal baggage of marriage in the UK but these days that's really not what it is about - at least, not for many of us. No-one "gave away" my wife, there was no promise of obedience (IIRC) nor is it how we run our relationship.

To be fair, TJ is also uncomfortable with the historical oppression of having carpets in your house so is perhaps something of an outlier on the bell curve of societal norms.

I love being married.

It’s genuinely one of the best things i’ve ever achieved in my life.

+1

Best decision I ever made.

it may not be how you see it now but thats what it was created for.

A couple of hundred years ago maybe, but marriage hasn't been that for anyone alive now, so citing it as a reason not to get married, is redundant. Marriage is entirely a personal choice, and even if you're both idealistically egalitarian, it needn't be the barrier to having a ceremony/ritual of life-long sharing, if that's what you want.

it may not be how you see it now but thats what it was created for.

1800s are over TJ.

1800s are over TJ.

He's still fighting on, like Hiroo Onoda....

Its not "almost" like a transfer of property - thats what it was.  some folk may have forgotten this.

“Was”

Now it's more like a reclamation of bathrooms.

" She's your problem now, son. I'm awa' for my first shite in peace for 26 years"

This is like saying "I don't have a car, as I can't afford to employ a man to run in front of it with a red flag..."

So what purpose does it serve now?  an outdated tradition that has lost its meaning - although an unmarried woman in a relationships still has more freedom in some ways.

One thing that really gets me tho is the amount of money people spend on weddings.  If its all about committment why spend £50 000 on it?

Teej, chill man, there's no need to be polarised on absolutely every bloody opinion. It's okay for some of us to hold a different view from you, it doesn't make us right or you wrong, and vice versa.

So what purpose does it serve now?

Well the significant dowry came in handy. I'd never had an ox before.

what do you care what people spend their money on? I mean, imagine! people spending their own money, without bothering to seek your permission!! the cheek of it.

As for purpose, there's any number of reasons why people want to declare a vow to each other! Surely you can see that?

Quite agree no beer.  sorry if that came across as too dogmatic.  I thought the pic of Mille Tant would show my tongue was firmly in my cheek.

Its not something that harms anyone ( other than the married pair 😉 )so its nothing to get excited about

[secretly covets Perchy's ox]

[secretly disappointed that you're not coveting my ass]

Ox?  If I knew there was an ox involved..................................................

@tjagain - Oxen if you marry well 😉

Oops - MrTJ is from south yorks working class stock.  I'd have been lucky to get a ferret

I've considered it for the future, but only good reason I can think of is it being a nice way to demonstrate long term commitment. But we demonstrate that to each other daily, through trust and loyalty. Marriage brings nothing, it's in our actions that commitments are made to each other, without external validation.

People marry because that is what is expected of them and what they have been conditioned to do, simple as that.

One thing that really gets me tho is the amount of money people spend on weddings.

That says more about you than them!

People marry because that is what is expected of them and what they have been conditioned to do, simple as that.

Nope. Don't be judging the rest of the world.

People marry because that is what is expected of them and what they have been conditioned to do, simple as that.

Apart from the fact I didn't get married for either of those reasons, so maybe not as simple as you would like it to be....

but only good reason I can think of is it being a nice way to demonstrate long term commitment.

Except it doesn’t do that at all as divorce is an option.

Currently still married, but not for much longer (tied by a property & paperwork to sort) but we split amicably and are still friends, we have both moved on into other relationships.

Funnily enough not that long ago, we joked about what was the point. Its just made what as, despite the amicable nature, something infinitely harder and more expensive to unwind.

Both of us can sit back now and say, it literally made no difference. I won't be bothering again.

Kerley - why did you get married then?  Genuine interest.

Also divorced, didn't think I'd bother again but here in Basque Country you get a better deal when you do your tax returns, among other financial incentives, which might explain why we have the highest divorce rate in Spain (two thirds iirc)

Edit, upwards of 70pc it seems

Can't see the point myself. I've been with my partner about 20 years. We've actually been engaged for about 18 of them! In that time many of my mates and similar aged family have married and split up, (not all granted) Our daughter has both of our surnames and if we did split up now, I'm sure the whatever financial arrangement we had to come to would be largely the same as if we were getting divorced - we have a jointly owned house, (massively outstrips the value of all other stuff we own) and Alice would still need to be provided for while she's at university.

Bit of paper wouldn't change any of that or the way I feel about my relationship.

As a Christian I have no idea why people who aren't religious get married - just seems an excuse to have a big party to show how much money you are able to spend to most folk. Why not just have a civil partnership instead? That's all you need to get the legal/financial (if there is any financial ones left) benefits.

Making wedding vows in a church to a God you don't believe in seems a bit pointless to me.

Making my wedding vows to my wife and God was the most serious commitment I've ever made in my life as it mattered to me deeply that I do not ever break those vows.

Making wedding vows in a church to a God you don’t believe in seems a bit pointless to me.

A wedding doesn't have to be in a church.  Ours was in a hotel, with no reference to religion in the ceremony.  And it was a very small and cheap party.

Making wedding vows in a church to a God you don’t believe in seems a bit pointless to me.

I didn’t as making vows to someone in front of someone who doesn’t exist seems a bit pointless to me.

Add to that like many Christian beliefs marriage predates Christianity.

As a Christian I have no idea why people who aren’t religious get married

Probably because it is no longer a religious ceremony..

Making wedding vows in a church to a God you don’t believe in seems a bit pointless to me.

You can get married without using a Church....

Making my wedding vows to my wife and God was the most serious commitment I’ve ever made in my life as it mattered to me deeply that I do not ever break those vows.

Which you'll find is no different to non religious people getting married except there's no mention of a make believe deity involved.

Couldn't resist a dig eh Drac?

EDIT or footflaps

FFS people.

I couldn’t resist replying to someone having ago at none Christians for getting married and then completely getting their facts wrong.

As a Christian I have no idea why people who aren’t religious get married – just seems an excuse to have a big party to show how much money you are able to spend to most folk.

We really love big family parties and wanted to get our respective families together for a massive do. It wasn't expensive and didn't involve God, and also clearly wasn't extravagant because we asked everyone to bring a dish for the buffet. It was great 🙂

Couldn’t resist a dig eh Drac?

EDIT or footflaps

FFS people.

WTF!

He asked, I answered. Now, hopefully, he will have some idea why non Christians choose to get married.

I couldn’t resist replying to someone having ago at none Christians for getting married and then completely getting their facts wrong.

I didn't express facts, I gave my opinion.  I wasn't having "a go".

I know you can get married in other places and it can be non-religious, but the image of a wedding in a church is still the dream for a lot (not all) of people and they go and have a religious wedding where they say things they don't believe just to have nicer wedding photos in a pretty church.

Which you’ll find is no different to non religious people getting married except there’s no mention of a make believe deity involved.

I didn't say it was.