More importantly, theres no way Diane Abbott could have finished like that against PSG the other night
I see DA as more of a Roy Keane style midfield enforcer.
kimbers
Full MemberHowever on those numbers Tories would have a slim majority
Eh, I'd like to see your working tbh.
These polls don't give enough information about seats etc to really go for or against that, but 42/36/8 is not much different than he last general election which was 43/32/4. That's a very crude comparison but thanks to FPTP and a century of gerrymandering that poll result could leave us pretty much exactly where we are now, except maybe with a few more lib dems. It's not a significant change and it's worse than the 2017, 2015, and 2010 elections for Labour and barely any better than 2019.
Neither a criticism of starmer or praise for Corbyn, it's jsut that they're both playing the same broken game on the same sloping pitch.
It looks like there are 5 tories who don’t have the morality of a snake
Amazingly they were happy to subsidise the “Eat out to help out” policy but not starving kids., I can’t actually believe I had to borrow something from one of politics repugnant sideshow exhibits but he dropped the mic when he rolled that one out.
Presumably there just aren't enough Tory donors/Brexit cheerleaders involved in the school meals catering trade.
Sometimes there's not even any profit involved at all! Imagine that - waste of time.
I keep thinking I can't get any angrier, then a new day dawns.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/qNtL832K/121696072-670533683878227-4275823590477652645-n.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/qNtL832K/121696072-670533683878227-4275823590477652645-n.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
For those interested on how their MP voted.
Thanks for posting the link Kiksy. Rather than argue on STW about the state of politics (not sure who is expecting what to change with that approach) I plan to spend the time to write to my No voting MP asking for an explanation.
Can you please share your letter so that we can copy and paste?
The Star and The Mirror aren't giving up on this story ..yet
There's a Change.org petition going around calling for the end of subsidised meals at the HofP.
How out of touch are those idiots?
It's worth checking out Marcus Rashfords Twitter feed. Businesses and local councils all over the country pledging to supply free meals over the holidays.
My no-mark Tory MP, who voted against free school meals, is getting dogs abuse about this all over social meedya. And rightfully so. He's a ****!
It just goes to show how detached from reality they are. Its a relatively small amount of money but they must surely realise how bad it looks to all but the hardest-hearted of bastards. Its not even like its permanent. It's just to see the most disadvantaged people through a pandemic.
Anyway... here's a tweet sent by multimillionaire and Tory MP, Jeremy Hunt, about getting his nice lunch at his local gastropub subsidised by us plebs
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1290295723515404291?s=20
I do see the point that the system is so ****ed up that kids need schools to provide meals because households are too poor to do it themselves, and even have some sympathy with those calling for that to be fixed, but letting kids go hungry now while it gets sorted (if it ever will b) is kind of like turning up to a road accident and refusing to treat the victim because we need to deal with dangerous driving to stop it happening in the first place.
It's not an either or situation. We must do both.
I’d quite like to make MPs who voted against feeding poor kids have to explain to those kids, to their face, why they had the opportunity to feed them, but chose not to. Perhaps showing them what they spent the money on instead.
Check out Marcus's Twitter feed, what a hero
https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1319572941575782400
My MP didn't vote the other day, but he has this as the lead on his website.
https://www.christianwakeford.org.uk/news/free-school-breakfasts-can-transform-lives
Why didn't he vote?
Check out Marcus’s Twitter feed, what a hero
Im 100% with Marcus on this kids need food and as a poor kid growing up myself it makes me so mad that this is happening. Not content with taking milk away they now want to take all the food! What annoys me even more is like some old bloke walking in his garden to fund the NHS we now have local people stepping in on mass to make up for the short coming of our gov.' its shocking!
Like Tom says the MPs who voted again this should be made to explain their decision, why do they hate kids and want them to go without food.
the star sticks the boot in! ? :/
Its a shocking measure of our society that we are punishing parents wrongdoings by letting their children starve.
However, MPs, media personalities, and whoever else that opposed school meals enjoying and promoting the eat out to help out scheme is irrelevant. EOTHO was always about supporting the businesses and their employees in the hospitality sector, not about reducing the cost of food to the public.
I'm quite enjoying seeing a United player who isn't universally despised 😀
we now have local people stepping in on mass to make up for the short coming of our gov.’ its shocking!
It should be a shock to no-one that a Tory Govt is pushing responsibility for what decent people think should be a statutory duty onto voluntary organisations. Let those who care pay.
EOTHO was always about supporting the businesses and their employees in the hospitality sector, not about reducing the cost of food to the public.
Why not simply give the money to those businesses and employees then... it could also have gone to the small establishments that were unable to open over the summer then, rather than just those with the inside room, and outside space, to get customers in? It definitely had a "feel good about the government cutting prices for you" edge to it... if you'd been past a Wetherspoons while the offer was one, they did a good job of making that explicit.
However, MPs, media personalities, and whoever else that opposed school meals enjoying and promoting the eat out to help out scheme is irrelevant. EOTHO was always about supporting the businesses and their employees in the hospitality sector, not about reducing the cost of food to the public.
It's not tho, not really - when they can spend £500 million on that, but not find £20 million to feed some starving kids it all becomes relevant. Especially the way they are spaffing the cash about to all their mates.
It's all a bit click baity morale outrage de jour this.
Tory MPs hating children and wanting them to starve, no its far more mundane, vacuous Tory MPs doing what they are told to keep their snouts in the trough, bit like Brexit, the plight of the kids won't even have registered.
Kids going to starve this year without free school meals, same issue as last year but no one noticed, probably made worse by Covid but in that case concentrate on the furlough scheme.
Do we have a problem with some children not getting enough nutritional food, course we do, will this fix it, probably not, should we do it anyway, yes, is it the biggest issue facing the country at the moment, no not really.
Want to sort out child poverty properly we need to properly engage with poor parenting, lack of aspiration, lack of opportunities, lack of money going into fund all this, the money that is not being spent sensibly (by government and parents).
Sorry, struggling to get quite as wound up about this as some of you, maybe all my hate for the current government has already been used up due to Brexit and Covid. It also sits a bit oddly with me that someone paid as much as Marcus Rashford is the one making the fuss, don't know him personally, don't follow football, accept from comments on here that he's a decent bloke but still.
20 million quid seems a relatively trifling sum of money (particularly in these Covid times) when to not spend it does such a monumental amount of damage to your image, that was hardly great to begin with. Unless you really are only now even bothering to talk to the 'they're all ****less layabouts' mob
I was watching the Thick of It the other night. The episode where Tory spin doctor Stuart Pearson is sacked. His parting speech could have been written just to describe this present lot
Its a bit sweary, but very accurate...
Want to sort out child poverty properly we need to properly engage with poor parenting, lack of aspiration, lack of opportunities, lack of money going into fund all this, the money that is not being spent sensibly (by government and parents).
And you'll have this in place ready for half term next week, yes?
It’s all a bit click baity morale outrage de jour this.
That's what they want you to think.
And Marcus Rashford is doing it because people will listen to him and he benefitted from free school meals as a kid.
Want to sort out child poverty properly we need to properly engage with poor parenting, lack of aspiration, lack of opportunities, lack of money going into fund all this
Nu Labour (boooooo...bloody centrists!!!) did exactly this through schemes like Surestart. Dave and Gideon scrapped it all approximately 5 seconds after they were elected.
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1319604014711975941?s=21
It’s not tho, not really – when they can spend £500 million on that, but not find £20 million to feed some starving kids it all becomes relevant. Especially the way they are spaffing the cash about to all their mates.
how much does the government spend every day? You could just as easily complain about any spending on anything that doesn't immediately feed, care for, and house the general population.
From a compassionate point of view, prioritising middle class leisure time over starving kids is worng, clearly.
But from an economics point of view, giving the money to business owners and employees is a much better use of your millions.
what numpty designed that poster though... both pairs of quotation marks above the quote... just why 🤣 (hoping that's not one of yours actually 😂)I’m quite enjoying seeing a United player who isn’t universally despised
If this was about the last £20 million the government had there might be a discussion.
It is not; there isn't an either/or decision about what to spend the money on.
The principle of providing support to children in food poverty should not be in any doubt.
This would be discretionary spending.
£20 million is a completely imperceptible sum in the context of central government spending.
Think of it another way, the governing party will usually have an eye on policies which cement their position and/or gain them new supporters.
This a guaranteed vote loser.
Marcus Rashford has a much higher approval rating than johnson or any of his clown circus; in addition, the 'popular press' is very much on his side.
That 'man of the people' johnson has clearly failed to understand how damaging this is to him - either that or blind ideology is stopping him from doing what is patently right or cummings has said 'no'.
what numpty designed that poster though…
Not guilty. You can tell it's not one of mine. Theres no glaring spelling errors in it 😀
The line breaks also offend me greatly. Hadn't noticed the quotation marks as I was twitching at the idea of single words on individual lines
This is bringing me to tears...
clickly...it's a bit dusty here...
I HATE the idea of kids going hungry... It's literally a basic, humble requirement.
I had a really poor upbringing - Dad really ill at one point, mum not working, and we had to rely on food tins and such for a period.
We'd have been, frankly, ****ed, if it weren't for that.
This government has SOOOO the wrong idea of what's important.
DrP
Sorry, struggling to get quite as wound up about this as some of you
It’s ok. There are plenty of other people who couldn’t give a **** either. You’re not alone.
But from an economics point of view, giving the money to business owners and employees is a much better use of your millions.
There is plenty of evidence that kids eating a healthy, balanced diet contributes significantly to improved educational outcomes. In turn, that's giving you a lifelong improvement on economic activity for that person. I'd suggest the economic ROI on free school meals is enormous.
Let's be honest... disadvantaged school kids have had a really, really easy year. We should stop mollycoddling them
surely it's obvious that people have been "making a fuss" for ages? But it takes someone with the profile of Rashford to actually get heard.It also sits a bit oddly with me that someone paid as much as Marcus Rashford is the one making the fuss
What I find odd is.. anyone who finds it odd that someone would care about other people?! We need more like him, not less!
This government has SOOOO the wrong idea of what’s important.
I think it was Brexit that was important wasn't it, or that is how they got voted in.
There is plenty of evidence that kids eating a healthy, balanced diet contributes significantly to improved educational outcomes. In turn, that’s giving you a lifelong improvement on economic activity for that person. I’d suggest the economic ROI on free school meals is enormous.
Now life isn't quite a zero sum game, but there are only so many doctors and so on that we need. Everyone that pulls themselves up out of poverty is taking away the birthright jobs of the kids of upper middle class Tory voters. Hence their opposition to it.
PLus the benefit doesn't kick in for decades, no politician cares about that far into the future. See also climate change.
I absolutely ****ing despise them
Completely. In fact Dear old Mum doesnt like it when I start on TORIES %$^&£$ hisssss 😆
I lived their policies.
The get on your bike one. Jesus Fk,
Worked like this.
Unemployed?
You were allowed 11weeks at your home address, ie parents house. After that you had to move somewhere else, find a job, and more importantly somewhere to sleep. The Tory inspired dhss of the time had lists of which B&B took DHSS, but get this, these lists werent available for the claimant, who had by trial and error to find one of these hell holes.
You got a fortnight to find a job and if not, you were forced to move to a different area to try there. How you get there is your own affair, hitch hiking across Britain aint fun.
Allowing wee kids to go to bed hungry is the type of evil we need to stop, by cutting it off at the fing knees. ONE PARTY is the route cause most of the problems we in the UK face.
We award our PM a healthy wage, and we cover all the expenses, as hte job is difficult, stressful and rewards are a given.
But the PM uses his position to make himself a huge pile of extra, bringing thew average to well over half a million, nearly 3/4.
So is he working for himself, or working for us 😕
If he(or any other) is working for themselves, then they have no place occupying that position of trust.
Someone who is unemployed, are given a pittance
Were they to go off and make themselves a wad of cash outwith this, they'd end up in court, and maybe prison, or be forced to return the ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE CLAIM, maybe going back decades.
You'll remember of course when we found out they were blatantly screwing the expenses for ANYTHING they could get.
The law there decided only to look at 2 years of claims, then ut in place legislation to prevent people from uncovering such corruption again.
THE LAW IS THE LAW IS THE LAW
Where the law is modified, then it either isnt the law, or the person implementing doesnt represent it.
ayjaydoubleyou
Free Member
Its a shocking measure of our society that we are punishing parents wrongdoings by letting their children starve
What's the "wrongdoing" that you are talking about in needing food?
Now life isn’t quite a zero sum game, but there are only so many doctors and so on that we need. Everyone that pulls themselves up out of poverty is taking away the birthright jobs of the kids of upper middle class Tory voters. Hence their opposition to it.
PLus the benefit doesn’t kick in for decades, no politician cares about that far into the future. See also climate change.
Not quite zero sum, but it's reasonable to suggest that increasing productivity by having a better educated workforce grows the economy. Would also say that the benefit kicks in pretty early due to reduced spending on benefits and correcting anti social behaviour issues.
The counter argument is that spending more money on benefits increases the attraction of being on benefits. Difficult to deny that one, but IMO better educational outcomes balance against that anyway for the next generation.
The counter argument is that spending more money on benefits increases the attraction of being on benefits. Difficult to deny that one
It makes a convincing soundbite, but is there any evidence to support it? Any examples of a country which increased benefits, and employment fell as a result? I am willing to listen to any hard evidence that increasing benefits tempts people out of full time employment, but I bet it doesn't exist.
What probably could be found is people so downtrodden and miserable through years of systemic abuse they are no longer looking for opportunities that experience tells them don't exist. But that is a problem that can only be solved by creating opportunity not further abuse.
Difficult to deny that one
I'll bite. And I'll deny it. People on benefits are mostly working. Work doesn't always pay to keep your family fed. No one is choosing to be paid so little that they need to claim benefits to feed their children. That's not a choice.
@kelvin, yeah that i find most frustrating, tax payers subsidise company's to pay low wages. In crease the minimum wage, to a living wage. and tax amazon more while your at it.
Much easier to just rename the "minimum wage" as the "living wage", so that people believe that it is a wage you can live on. One straight from the ministry of disinformation that one!
Anyway... this is all nice talk about long term fixes... in the short term... JUST ****ING FEED THE KIDS.
People on benefits are mostly working. Work doesn’t always pay to keep your family fed. No one is choosing to be paid so little that they need to claim benefits to feed their children. That’s not a choice.
Last stats I saw at work, two-thirds of housing benefit claimants were in employment.
We either need to raise wages, and we'll all pay more for goods and services as a result, fair enough, or we address the lack of affordable social housing, which can't happen overnight. Or better still, we do both. Starting just as soon as we've fed these kids next week, and made a plan for Christmas.
Local village pub has asked anyone who needs help next week to feed their kids to contact them. There's a lot of good people putting their own fragile businesses on the line to do the right thing by covering the government's useless arse.
I’ll bite. And I’ll deny it. People on benefits are mostly working. Work doesn’t always pay to keep your family fed. No one is choosing to be paid so little that they need to claim benefits to feed their children. That’s not a choice.
I'll be clear - it's not an argument that I'm making. It was made to me last night, by a friend of mine with plenty of experience of people absolutely getting stuck in the benefits system. It's interesting to hear the discussion from that point of view, at the time it seemed a logical point. Improving benefits does make it more attractive.
You can deny it, but I wouldn't agree. And, somewhat more importantly, the people that vote tory probably don't agree either. Perhaps the best way is to point out that it makes benefits more attractive - but this is only relevant to a small percentage of claimants so the net benefit is massively positive?
I accept the points from you and MSP. I agree that in work benefits prove a failure at a societal level. As does the generational and geographical benefits trap.
Lots of councils doing this…
https://twitter.com/kirkleescouncil/status/1319670388977291266?s=21
Kirklees just the closest to me.
the people that vote tory probably don’t agree either
They disagree because they think people choose to go on benefits, rather than end up in situations that force it on them. I can’t help their prejudices about people on benefits.
Back on topic… we can help feed these kids over the holidays without people becoming “attracted” towards being broke enough for their kids to need that help.
With the fantastic response by small (and sometime large) businesses to plug the gap. I worry the biggest problem now may be due to the toxicity off the tory narrative over the years, those who most need the help feeling ashamed for asking for it.
A classy MP writes to a 16 year old girl…
Jesus Christ is that real?
Edit: oh just looked him up, so I guess it is. This is the guy who fillibustered to try and derail legislation to protect women from violence, who also has some interesting views on climate change
Have you met him? Try having his voice in your head while reading it. Doesn’t seem in any way abnormal then.
worse than vermin.
Small businesses having to step in to feed children as an act of charity, this country is a shadow of its former shelf. It's pathetic.
@kelvin No, it’s fake news I think. Have you fact checked this? What is your source on this? Don’t go around spreading things you aren’t 100% sure are true IMO, makes you no better than them 😕
I’m afraid it’s from Facebook… so bucket of salt time…
https://m.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10157249199946876&set=a.10151589275196876
I don’t have access to his mailbox to verify, obvs.
He’s done and said far worse before.
FFS 😂I’m afraid it’s from Facebook
Please don’t get news from FB, if you must then spend a few mins fact checking before passing it on. Just makes you look daft & helps no-one.
Full story, still doesn’t make him look great but not nearly as bad (or ridiculous sounding) as the doctored version:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/jfkcqb/i_emailed_my_local_mp_philip_davies_of_shipley/
He has replied to multiple people saying much the same thing.
His views are well known. Have some local press from this week if you want:
i liked this comment on the hull times after the .... feed yer kids not yer habit and all poor are obese comments
I’m not taking it personally at all. I just can’t stand to hear judgemental claptrap and venom being sprayed at people who find themselves in a unfortunate position. You are lucky to have a job at the moment, when furlough ends next month there are going to be thousands who aren’t so lucky. I just hope that your trade isn’t affected when all the companies start going belly up, which will have a knock on effect to all manor of industries. I honestly hope you don’t find yourself in the situation that you’re relying on benefits and free school meals. There are jobs about at the moment, but there won’t be soon. One thing you can rely on is you’re not special, you’ll never be indispensable and there’s no such thing as a job for life.
As above, a significant number of people who are in employment are on benefits thanks to minimum wage zero hours contracts. Lots of businesses like retail, pubs and services don't give employees more that 19 hours of hours of work so they can Universal Credit - effectively benefits are being used to subsidise minimum wage employment. Of course the directors of supermarkets and pub chains can pay them handsome bonuses because they've got access to a subsidised workforce- even better when they make them all "apprentices" because they can pay them below minimum wage. Another reason why Brexiteers didn't want the EU poking their noses into the realities of UK employment legislation.
They disagree because they think people choose to go on benefits, rather than end up in situations that force it on them. I can’t help their prejudices about people on benefits.
I'll be sure to let him know he shouldn't be prejudiced about members of his own family 😉
You don’t think that happens? People being prejudiced against groups despite having family members and friends in that group? That idea that people are “attracted” to benefits is based on the prejudice that people choose to be poor because they are lazy. It’s as old as the hills.
Anyway, Rashford’s Twitter is amazing right now. All the groups offering help all over Britain.
davies proving himself to be a **** - again.
All the groups offering help all over Britain
Which is really great - but, it takes the focus away from johnson and his fellow shits for doing nothing; in fact, what they did was worse than nothing - it was a clear rejection of children in need of help.
One piece of good which may come from this is a widespread rejection of and revulsion at johnson and the other amoebas by all right-thinking adults now and, in years to come, by those children when they have a voice and are able to vote.
I hope this will turn into a '...reap what you sow' event.
I see the mild expletive filter is working; 4 letters, watt re-arranged.
As for davies, I would very happily push him down a flight of stairs then help him back to the top - and push him down again and repeat ad infinitum.
public lynching would be quicker
klunk - yes, agreed but it would be much less enjoyment.
Kelvin, I have personally met, and he has obviously known, because he's bloody related to them, people that choose to be on benefits. To deny that this is possible is quite odd. He stated that free school meals would make being on benefits more attractive. To someone who does choose to live off benefits, it does. My counter argument to him was that making life better for the children involved was independent from the circumstances of their parents. And as you say, for most, it isn't a choice.
At this point, I'm either failing to communicate well, or I'm more of a **** than I think I am 🙁 I'd like to think I'm not prejudiced against people on benefits. But I'm also interested in how it's possible for people to actually vote against what Rashford is proposing. Because I think understanding what drives that mentality is how we collectively move towards a fairer society.
That was never a contentious view
you ****ing shit yes it was, when the war office complained that the recruits were too undernourished to be any use to the army in 1914. what a ****!
public lynching would be quicker
But not as much fun.
you * shit yes it was, when the war office complained that the recruits were too undernourished to be any use to the army in 1914. what a *!
And his statement makes no sense. Primarily these parents are taking responsibility. It's more secondarily - you know, in the middle of a global pandemic that's decimated the economy - that a bit of state aid might be appropriate.
After my dad died my mum brought up 4 kids for a good number of years (until we were all old enough for her to go back to work) on her windows pension and our child benefits.
She wasn’t an idler. A qualified teacher who had retrained as a nurse. Jist no family support to look after us kids while she worked so she had to stay at home, a 3 bed council terrace house.
Free school meals, clothing vouchers, charity shops, getting bones from the butcher ‘for the dog’ that were used to make stock for stews as we didn’t often have actual meat.
It was shit. I was often hungry, always getting picked on for wearing old crappy clothes (or the stupid duffle coats and cheap nasty shoes we got from the Council). The whole experience of my younger years affected me deeply in ways I’ve never really got over (& did so for my sisters and brother too). I find it quite upsetting that in this day and age, 40 years later we can still have kids in the situation my siblings and I were in.
Walk a mile in their shoes. Which will probably loom like poncy expensive ones but will most likely be crappy knock-offs from the local market which don’t really fit that well and will prob a fall apart in 6 months. But they were bloody cheap...
But I’m also interested in how it’s possible for people to actually vote against what Rashford is proposing. Because I think understanding what drives that mentality is how we collectively move towards a fairer society.
The problem IMO is largely that many of these often incredibly privileged people like to think of themselves as being self-made independent success stories but actually they are ignoring all the help they had along the way.
So the attitude is 'well if I can be successful why can't they, they must be lazy' because in their minds everyone has the same opportunities and support they did. This is just plain arrogance/delusion though, I'm not sure how you would combat it.
There will be significant numbers of people out there who were supporting their families just fine for years, but are now out of work and on benefits, and you don't get support for more than 2 kids from the government, so they literally don't have enough to live on.
To understand the difference between tories and real people:
"Conservative MP Jo Gideon is being asked to quit as a trustee of an anti-hunger charity after voting down plans to extend free school meals into the holidays backed by Marcus Rashford.
Feeding Britain - whose President is Archbishop Justin Welby - has done extensive reserach into holiday hunger among children.
Today Emma Lewell Buck, MP for South Shields, who co-founded the organisation in 2015 with former MP Frank Field, said Gideon's actions did not fit with their mission statement and she "needs to go"."
The problem IMO is largely that many of these often incredibly privileged people like to think of themselves as being self-made independent success stories but actually they are ignoring all the help they had along the way.
Honestly though, there aren't that many incredibly privileged people. Definitely not enough to deliver the massive tory majority we have. And my mate would wet himself if you described his upbringing as such 😉 I can kind of understand the middle class delineation of otherness, part self defence and part self congratulatory.
But it properly threw me when someone from a background of grinding poverty was against the fsm proposal. And I think we're in for a ****ing long stint of austerity unless we can understand that mindset and engage with it.
To understand the difference between tories and real people:
And yet, 14M unreal people managed to vote tory last year. Surely unreal people would be barred from voting? After all, if you couldn't hold a pen, how would you put your mark? It's a mystery.
Honestly though, there aren’t that many incredibly privileged people. Definitely not enough to deliver the massive tory majority we have.
I'm not saying that describes everyone who votes Tory I'm more talking about the MPs tbh. Also, many people are a lot more privileged than they'd like to admit.
Less well-off people voting Tory is an absolute mystery to me. I think we're just quite an individualistic country.
