[Closed] Mark "Chopper" Read has died

Good.

Fascinating character by all accounts, read quite a bit about him before the film came along, which was excellent. Eric Bana nailed it.

A flawed character yet also a cultural icon. A proper old fashioned gangster like Britain used to make when we were great, and a loss to his family, I recall he has a young son who he was very close to.

I think that its hard not to respect the man, particularly given both his own take on his fame and his refusal to accept a transplant because it might deprive someone more deserving of the opportunity.

''I don't want anyone looking at me and hero-worshipping me... I'm not someone to hero-worship for Christ's f---ing sake, I wouldn't wish my life on my worst enemy.''

Who?

Good.

By all accounts he was reformed after being released from prison and went on to become an author and artist. He died aged 58 from cancer.

And it's a good thing he died?

ninfan - Member
A proper old fashioned gangster like Britain used to make when we were great,

He certainly knew how to treat a female impersonator.

ninfan - Member
A flawed character

sounds more like a nasty scumbag to me...

He later graduated to kidnapping and torturing members of the criminal underworld, often using a blowtorch or bolt cutters to remove the toes of his victims as an incentive for them to produce enough money so that Read would leave them alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopper_Read

Only 58 - clearly he needed to harden the f*** up!

By all accounts he was reformed after being released from prison and went on to become an author and artist.

He tortured and murdered (depending on which account you believe) anything from four to nineteen people. His writing career meant that he profited from his crime. Maybe it is wrong to say 'good' about [i]anybody[/i] dying, but this 'Nuts'/'FHM' glorification of psychos like this makes me quite tetchy. You admire him if you like - I'd rather admire someone who had a shit childhood like him, yet somehow managed to make something of themself without using a blowtorch or bolt croppers on other people.

[i]By all accounts he was reformed after being released from prison and went on to become an author and ... [/i]

..cashing in on his scumbag background...

[img] [/img]

The film is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it. Eric Bana's performance is outstanding. Based on that film he's a great actor its a shame he doesn't seem to have been in a role he's been able to get his teeth into in the same way since.

"Strewth Neville, it's a bit early to be 6 feet under"

... think that its hard not to respect the man....

A proper old fashioned gangster like Britain used to make when we were great

seriously? why deification of people who are thugs, criminals, murderers and thieves?
lots of column inches when Ronnie Biggs died but what about Jack Mills the train driver who got hit on the head with an iron bar? nobody cares about him because he's not a 'loveable rogue'
anyone who thinks these cretins were great needs to experience the violence they dished out on the innocent to enlighten themselves.
maybe they need tapping on the head with an iron bar too, might nock some sense into their thick skulls.

You admire him if you like - I'd rather admire someone who had a shit childhood like him, yet somehow managed to make something of themself without using a blowtorch or bolt croppers on other people.

How boring is that...

Plus, the kids in this city certainly don't look up to people who have 'made something of themselves' in a legal way.

The likes of Chopper Reid are role models to huge numbers of young kids etc, both through their life of crime and latterly showing that people can also do something else too. Maybe it's different in 'Middle England', but rightly or wrongly, when we were growing up we looked up to people like Curtis Warren, and the big local crime families, people who'd made huge fortunes and reputations through crime and violence, that's who we wanted to be like, not the fool who worked all day long for years and years, regardless of how wealthy they were. When you get older you realise that maybe it's a bit silly, but for lots of urban dwelling youths, figures such as Chopper Reid a role models nonetheless.

when we were growing

i think you need to define "we"

rogg - Member
Good.

+1

No great loss to the world.

How boring is that...

oh i don't know i think i would happily suffer the tedium of not being tied to a chair, beaten, shot and buried under a motorway.

maybe it's a bit silly

maybe? 😯 🙄

T'was ever thus - Ned Kelly, Billy the Kid, Dick Turpin...

Erics performance in Chopper was class, a must watch movie. You couldn't help but like the character, despite what you would normally think of the criminal world.

Having his ear chopped of in prison was comedy gold..

You admire him if you like

I don't admire him in the slightest.

I just find it bizarre that someone can feel "good" about someone dying from cancer

[b]loddrik - Member[/b]

You admire him if you like - I'd rather admire someone who had a shit childhood like him, yet somehow managed to make something of themself without using a blowtorch or bolt croppers on other people.

[b]How boring is that...

Plus, the kids in this city certainly don't look up to people who have 'made something of themselves' in a legal way.[/b]

I blame the parents.

[b]The likes of Chopper Reid are role models to huge numbers of young kids etc, both through their life of crime and latterly showing that people can also do something else too. Maybe it's different in 'Middle England', but rightly or wrongly, when we were growing up we looked up to people like Curtis Warren, and the big local crime families, people who'd made huge fortunes and reputations through crime and violence, that's who we wanted to be like, not the fool who worked all day long for years and years, regardless of how wealthy they were.[/b]

Well, I'm 44 and from one of the roughest parts of Manchester.
I knew quite a few people who thought that way.
Many of them grew up to be drug dealing, thieving scum like the people they admired.
Stealing from their own, polluting the environment, contributing nothing.

The rest of us were taught right from wrong and tried to behave accordingly.
Didn't always succeed, because it was tougher than the alternative, but at least we tried, eh?

I just find it bizarre that someone can feel "good" about someone dying from cancer

i find it bizarre that someone can feel "good" about someone killing innocent people and stealing their money.

but it's a funny old world 😕

Yet Nelson Mandela is fetted as a hero. But he is a convicted killer
Er double standards anyone

Excellent comparison there Sancho. Well done!

Two people both convicted of of crimes both reformed yet people treat them different I think it's a very good comparison

Obviously! 😆

To be fair, Nelson wasn't a convicted killer - just a convicted terrorist, apparently they only blew up electricity sub stations and power networks.

But then Chopper wasn't convicted of killing anyone either 8)

yeah that chopper bloke really strove for the emancipation of the oppressed.

Doesn't matter what he stood for they both turned their backs on their violent pasts
Yet people are not prepared to forgive one v the other

Mandela just sat there and cashed in on his violent past, whereas Chopper went all out of his way to change things in his country for the better. Hmm.... yeah, I can see the double standards now.

In fact I was at the free Chopper Read concert at Wembley.
Or it might have been the other bloke.

Good answer lol you just can't think hard enough to understand can you

i find it bizarre that someone can feel "good" about someone killing innocent people and stealing their money.

not sure you could class Drug dealers an 'innocent'

just saying. Liked the film, liked his book. he's not a role model to me, but i don't agree with the sentiment that it's good he's dead.

i find it bizarre that someone can feel "good" about someone killing innocent people and stealing their money.

Except I never said I felt "good" about his criminal behaviour. 🙄

Glorification of gangster boils my p1ss…..

Aside from Norman Stanley Flecther they are all ****ers, the lot of them.

Just get your nut down, work hard and get on with life

Any of you muppets who buy/watch/read or in anyway subscribe to this sh1te don’t ever come on here moaning your bike’s been nicked.

I'll be reading this next

[img] [/img]

whereas Chopper went all out of his way to change things in his country for the better.

Well, for a start there was the TV campaign against domestic violence:

And then there was the children's literacy campaign:

[img] [/img]

Brilliant lol still not thinking

Any of you muppets who buy/watch/read or in anyway subscribe to this sh1te don’t ever come on here moaning your bike’s been nicked.

I'm confused now. so if I watch a film about a gangster, say goodfellas, i can't complain if my bike gets nicked?

If I watch a film about a murderer, can I complain if i get murdered?

maybe the police could adopt this approach. "sorry son, you can't report your bike stolen, there's clearly a copy of the krays on your bookshelf"

Well, I'm 44 and from one of the roughest parts of Manchester.
I knew quite a few people who thought that way.
Many of them grew up to be drug dealing, thieving scum like the people they admired.
Stealing from their own, polluting the environment, contributing nothing.
The rest of us were taught right from wrong and tried to behave accordingly.
Didn't always succeed, because it was tougher than the alternative, but at least we tried, eh?

And what. Doesn't change the face that criminals and gangsters are the role models of choice for most poor urban kids, that'll never change. Regardless of their backgrounds. Be they from the 'toughest' (s****s...) parts of a city or not.

I was taught right from wrong, came from a good family but I chose a criminal career for a long time, I looked up to people for whatever reason. Didn't make me a bad person and I still, believe it or not, had pretty strong morals. Kids changed me and my outlook and I went back and got a good education, or I may very well still be following that path. I'm sure much much poorer nowadays though.

The person who wrote this:

not sure you could class Drug dealers an 'innocent'

Clearly didn't think it through. It's not an illegal drug micro encomy opperating in isolation, the users seteal stuff to swap for money then drugs, which get traded up/down the chain so some "proper old fashioned gangster like Britain used to make when we were great". They're rich becasue your house got burgled, several middle men lost their mental capacities to drugs and contracted HIV from the parifinelia, the dealers shot each other up over turf and society as a whole suffered.

Or to put it bluntly.........

Any of you muppets who buy/watch/read or in anyway subscribe to this sh1te don’t ever come on here moaning your bike’s been nicked.

If I watch a film about a murderer, can I complain if i get murdered?

Umm, no. You'll be murdered.

I was taught right from wrong, came from a good family but I chose a criminal career for a long time, I looked up to people for whatever reason. Didn't make me a bad person and I still, believe it or not, had pretty strong morals.

However you ended up being now, it did make you a bad person then. Clearly your morals were a bit wonky too if you think being a criminal is somehow compatible with strong morals. I assume SOME morals were strong but others were absent/reduced?

[i]Umm, no. You'll be murdered.[/i]

Such pedantry

I'm confused now. so if I watch a film about a gangster, say goodfellas, i can't complain if my bike gets nicked?

If I watch a film about a murderer, can I complain if i get murdered?

maybe you are thinking too much.

Such pedantry

I was feeling left out.

I'm sure much much poorer nowadays though.

The film is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it. Eric Bana's performance is outstanding. Based on that film he's a great actor its a shame he doesn't seem to have been in a role he's been able to get his teeth into in the same way since.

whinge, whinge, fackin whinge!

loddrik - Member
And what. Doesn't change the face that criminals and gangsters are the role models of choice for most poor urban kids, that'll never change. Regardless of their backgrounds. Be they from the 'toughest' (s****s...) parts of a city or not.

Really?
Why do you think that is?
Surely family influence has more to do with the choice of role models than external media pressure?

And I didn't say 'toughest'. I said 'roughest'.
Perhaps 'poorest' wouldn't have offended your pride quite as much?

I was taught right from wrong, came from a good family but I chose a criminal career for a long time, I looked up to people for whatever reason. Didn't make me a bad person and I still, believe it or not, had pretty strong morals.

I was taught right from wrong, came from a good family but I chose a criminal career for a long time, I looked up to people for whatever reason. Didn't make me a bad person

erm, yes it did. If you chose a criminal "career" then I would suggest that you were a bad person.

Depends on your definition of what a bad person I guess. I will accept that my morals were 'selectively' good though rather than good. It's been 7 years since I changed my life so I can safely consign that part of my life to the history books.

As for Chopper Reid, I'd love to know what was fact from fiction, just as with Richard Kuklinski, there's no doubt that huge amounts of nefarious deeds were commited, but probably no where near as much as claimed. And just as with Kuklinski, we'll probably never know.

Hi is this the right place for the pissing contest?

Which pissing contest is that then?

Is it OK if you use drugs but pay for them with money earned through standard 9-5 working?

Hi is this the right place for the pissing contest?

I managed to wee on my shoes

Is it OK if you use drugs but pay for them with money earned through standard 9-5 working?

best ask your mum

lots of column inches when Ronnie Biggs died but what about Jack Mills the train driver

I was a bit surprised when I read that so I checked, and as far as I can figure out Ronnie Biggs is still alive.

I reckon reports of his death have been greatly exaggerated, how ever many column inches have been devoted to it.

Maybe it was wishful thinking 🙄
The other non-crim involved David Whitby was fairly traumatised after the event and died 9 years after the robbery aged just 34.

Ronnie Biggs
[img] [/img]

Awesome trolling

you just can't think hard enough to understand can you

I am not sure it requires much hard thinking to see a difference between nelson Mandela and chopper.

No one is this stupid they cannot see the difference.

Neville flamin' Bartoss

I didn't know who Mark Read was, had to google it. 😳

However, I am intrigued as to what criminal activities are available for a good person, as they are likely to be lucrative and I'm all for a bit of extra cash if it's morally defensible and hurts no-one.

However, I am intrigued as to what criminal activities are available for a good person, as they are likely to be lucrative and I'm all for a bit of extra cash if it's morally defensible and hurts no-one.

You never watched Hustle? We were meant to think they were 'good people'. As a bonus you get to knock around with Jaime Murray which is never a bad thing.

Mr Smith.
I'm not defending the train robbers, but it does sound a bit like you are blaming them for two deaths, that happened years after the event, one died of leukaemia six years later, and the other of a heart attack nine years later.

They are hardly connected are they ?

I'm not, it's more about the column inches/public perception.

I they the broader point [ poorly expressed] is the driver never fully recovered and these lovable roques were amoral crims who should not be held up as some sort of folk heroes.

He was good in that film

when we were growing up

Didn't say I'd finished doing so..

Good luck with that.

Haha there are some cracking wannabe gangsters on here aren't there!

A question loddrick.....what evidence have you got that these gangster types are role models for youths that grow up in deprived areas?

I only ask as I have been teaching in schools that are in very deprived inner city areas for almost 10 years and also grew up in a pretty poor area myself. I'm not denying that some kids grow up wanting to emulate the local drug dealers etc, but I can state pretty categorically that they are an extremely small minority. Just because you grew up with selective good morals doesn't mean that others do.

[img] [/img]

Not where I'm from it isn't. Maybe it's because this is the poorest city in the UK with the highest unemployment and, coincidentally, the greatest propotion of 'high level' criminals etc and criminality so it is just accepted. Can't comment on where you teach, but I can say its like that for kids in large swathes of this city, and it was probably worse in the late '80s and early '90s when poverty and unemployment was far worse than it is now. Though people started to get rich quick on the back of the rave scene and the huge increase in recreational drugs.

But dont criticise Liverpool or he will have a go at you

Ps nottingham is the poorest and Glasgow has the most unemployed

the greatest propotion of 'high level' criminals

Nottingham is nowhere near, liverpool has been most deprived for decades now.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/indices-multiple-deprivation-poverty-england

Thats too vague to test against reality.

There has been enough written and studies done on the national and international impact of liverpool criminal networks, and frankly this isn't a justification of Uk criminal league tables, but it explains why people look up to criminals rather than the working man.

And yes, Liverpool has it's social problems but I'll defend it to the hilt.

Your defence seems to consist of arguing its the poorest most unemployed criminal area of the UK...what would you say if you did not like it 😉

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22623964

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-most-unemployed-households-uk-2251237
you are second to be fair.

Forgive me for using 2013 figures.
You may well be correct if it was 2010

Enough anyway it is certainly amongst the poorest and most deprived areas of the UK.

Darn it, I was certain he was from Norwich.

I'd have put money on it.

It's easy to find anything to support a race to the bottom on the internet....

http://money.aol.co.uk/2013/01/07/revealed-the-most-deprived-area-in-england/