[Closed] Mancini Sacked

The term 'sacked' gets bandied around a lot in football, but I'm not sure it's the same as you or I getting dismissed for breaching our employment contracts. If his contract stated that 2nd in the league, CL qualification and FA Cup final was a sackable offence, compensation wouldn't be on the agenda at all.

He's getting replaced under a mutually negotiated agreement, so he will receive significant compensation. My view as a city supporter is that if the club wants the luxury of swapping around managers after what most clubs would deem a relatively successful season, then it should be prepared to pay heavily for that.

Agree but I don't think it was finishing runners up I think it was his decisions/management style this season?

If it was sooo close and just bad luck they wouldn't have heaved him.

Remember Chelsea - AVB? He made some pretty shocking decisions didn't he there?

Never mind all that. What I want to know is what the hell is a holistic approach to football?

[i]City said in a statement last night. “This, combined with an identified need to develop a holistic approach to all aspects of football at the club, has meant that the decision has been taken to find a new manager for the 2013-14 season and beyond.[/i]

Sounds like the management consultants have taken over the boardroom then. And we can look forward to the spouting of that kind of [s]twoddle[/s] well-thought-through analysis from now on. Which I personally think has been sadly lacking. I look forward to Alan Hanson and Lawro deconstructing that on MOTD 😆

[s]Binners[/s] Plastic Manc, start worrying if Chelsea don't get the special ****..... I don't think Utd would see the title for two years 😉 Saying that if Chelsea get the special **** you wont see the trophy for two years.. 😆

Well its got to be more interesting than this season, hasn't it? It says a lot that all the fuss is about Fergies retirement, and Mancini's sacking. As there's not much interesting been happening on the pitch

I think that the footballers agents will presently be rubbing their hands with glee, as the new/returning managers at City and Chelski flex their cheque-books

He's got four years left on his contract - why should he settle for less than that? If he'd buggered off to Real or Barca after an outstanding season I imagine City would be after substantial compo.

Guaranteed remuneration in finance = pure evil
The same in football = par for the course

I wonder what fans would really think if they knew the full details of players/managers contracts.

Surely you commend them all and the free market for delivering this wonderful system as the market is never wrong - why not try and defend that rather than suggest other are hypocrites? Will i get some analogy now about a two footed studs up challenge for replying 😉
I shall claim I was simply Nani and there was no intent

TBH they way they all act I really struggle to follow football these days - it is all about money no matter what club and very few players actually love the club they play for and when they do they get treated like Lampard.

Possibly an interesting season with so many changes at the top.
Would go for the Special one tbh and Chelsea next year

Benitez to city would be funny but unlikely - he has gone up in my esteem this year he has done well at Chelsea IMHO

Moyes - has potential but he is stepping up in terms of challenge and he is untested territory re Europe and the pressure of challenging for things

Surely you commend them all and the free market for delivering this wonderful system as the market is never wrong - [b]why not try and defend that rather than suggest other are hypocrites? [/b]Will i get some analogy now about a two footed studs up challenge for replying

What a seriously odd comment. As you are well aware, the football analogy refers to when people chose to ignore the argument (the ball) in preference for attacking a person. I welcome challenges to arguments and would in this case. But for that to happen, you would need to focus on what I have said rather than making up a point (in his case a suggestion that people are hypocrites) for the sole reason of arguing against it. That is simply pointless (if you will pardon the pun).

The idea that football is a free market is patently absurd. As is well illustrated in this case, football is a massively uncompetitive market (in the business sense) with artificial barriers to entry created in ways that are of varying degrees of morality. Blimey, even the dozy organisation that runs the game can see that.

Junkyard - lazarus
I know some contacts at Liverpool and the wages they play the reserves is staggering - they cannot get rid of them as they get paid so much never mind what the team get paid. I got told the wages were "much higher" than the media state.

It not just the amount but the structure of the contracts that I find staggering. The hidden list of bonuses (eg, for simply playing in matches irrespective of performance or result) is breathtaking. Of course, in free markets all of this would be transparent leaving true fans with the opportunity to make their own assessment of just how real the "kissing the badge" gesture really is!

But for that to happen, you would need to focus on what I have said rather than making up a point (in his case a suggestion that people are hypocrites)

You would like to argue that post is not claiming folk are hypocrits [ call bankers names ignore overpaid footballers], good luck with that it seems to be your only point tbh and repeated throughout
Ah the nothing is really a free market defence 🙄 as that is true of every market though so you can always use it. Preyty sure the excesses in terms of wages,contracts, ownership and pay offs are down to supply and demand rather than say state intervention/legislation.

Well one of us needs a refresher course in what markets are or mean - you decide. If you want to claim that football (and the chronic mess that it is in from a business perspective) is an example of free markets then so be it. But excuse me, if I advise students not to follow suit. NB, there is no such thing as the, "nothing is a free market" defence. It is not an argument, merely a truism.

Who am I calling a hypocrite, really? I pointed out that the idea of fixed remuneration in one sector is often quoted as being the cause of the crisis (and termed evil) and yet similar structures (equally opaque BTW) are accepted in others. Thats not hypocritical, merely illogical.

It is hard to imagine a system for transferring wealth from the masses to a relative few (in an obviously regressive manner) than football. But if people want to make that choice, then so be it.

Does every thread need to be the same economics debate? 😉

Ok, my take on the economics.
The bookies agree with you, Rafa's 16-1 unlikely, whilst Pellegrini's 1-4 likely.
But I think it's out of those two myself, with Mourinho between them in the odds but going to Chelsea.
Interesting rumours about Pelligrini to Barca, with Tito's health probs meaning they're recruiting too this summer. Whatever the money offered, I'd say that's a far more enticing option if it's true.
[i]What I want to know is what the hell is a holistic approach to football?[/i]
Simple, they want an effective youth team set up so they don't need to buy so many players.
I've had my bet 🙂

Edit: Rafa's just come in to 8-1 as i typed. 🙂

I'm not too sure why there are comparisons against bankers. I don't think football is a free market. At some stage all the bonus and underhand stuff that goes on with agents needs to be addressed. But I guess if Chelsea want to pay 50 mill for Torres and make him sit on a bench, then that is up to them, if they can afford it.

the major issue there being that clubs are not run like companies.

Re the bankers thang. We haven't had to bail out football clubs to the tune of billions. And if we had , we wouldn't expect the same greed as before to carry on. If the Abu Dhabi royal family want to spunk money up the wall that is one thing. greedy little f**** ers still playing one way gambling, after being bailed out once is beyond belief.

Well one of us needs a refresher course in what markets are or mean - you decide.If you want to claim that football (and the chronic mess that it is in from a business perspective) is an example of free markets then so be it.

I am not arguing over whether hypocritical or illogical is the best word but you seem to suggest that they do one thing to one sector and another to another which i would term saying they are hypocrites. We both agree what point you made but simply give it a different word.
I dont see anywhere for this to go tbh as i assume we wont agree

We wont, so lets leave it with a smile and a genuine plea!

["Wages etc is supply and demand or the free market in action whatever you wish to say" - hmmm......pls don't let any of your students write that in an exam. That's not meant to be rude, it is just another truism.]

mrmoofo - Member
Christ - I hope nobody is that desperate that they will consider Rafa. I would rather have Mark Hughes back ...

Presume your joking, but if your not, your a bit weird

Once sore a tweet along the lines of...

"Only in the Uk would Moyes & Redknapp be held in Higher regard that Wenger & Benitez"

Their CV's tell all you need to know

don't let any of your students write that in an exam

I think we can both be certain economics is not something i would ever teach

Genuine question- I fancy reading up on it for a change
Given my views and short attention span what would be a good starter book for an intelligent but ignorant reader - Stefanomics has got me interested
Cheers

[JY - Stefanomics is a very good starting place IMO. Very difficult to recommend one source. If I recall correctly, I think you once said that you got a B in A level economics a while back (!), so guess you are looking for an overview and a refresher. I haven't read the book in its entirety (in fact just the Amazon preview) but the Conway's 50 Economics ideas (£6.89 off Amazon, but remember they dont pay taxes, so better to buy elsewhere 😉 ) could be a good starting point. Easy to read in a couple of nights and likely to spark a desire to read more. I liked the Amazon review which described it as simple but not simplistic. Introductory textbooks (up to A Level) are too expensive and detailed (but Sloman and Garratt's "Essentials" would be the expensive recommendation, Gillespie's Oxford Revision Guide another if you want very basic theory in 2-3 pages). But then for a bit of fun, follow it up with Steve Keen's "Debunking Economics." You will then be really armed to attack economists!!!]

Sorry for the hijack everyone else!!

Paul Ormerod - Death of Economics. Nothing about footy ...

Cheers all Yes it was steady decline from an A at O level [alst years to do them fwiw]and a B at A level - fluky for them both tbh and flattering results as i show often on here

Will read some stuff

I dont do Amazon for the reasons you mention

Once sore a tweet along the lines of...

"Only in the Uk would Moyes & Redknapp be held in Higher regard that Wenger & Benitez"

Their CV's tell all you need to know

Bit harsh on Moyes, I've not heard any direct comparisons suggesting he is better than the two you've mentioned, but on a limited budget I believe he has done a first rate job.

Matt

"Only in the Uk would Moyes & Redknapp be held in Higher regard that Wenger & Benitez"

Bit harsh on Moyes, I've not heard any direct comparisons suggesting he is better than the two you've mentioned, but on a limited budget I believe he has done a first rate job.

Indeed

As opposed to Arry, who does the opposite. Spanks a fortune then leaves. Does anyone seriously reckon he's going to stick around at QPR? No chance. He'll just saddle them with an enormous wage bill then swan off to his next 'challenge'. I've never understood why anyone rated him at all. Moyes is completely different

Moyes took Preston North end up a league.

Benitez has won 9 major honours as a manager.
Manager Real Madrid U-19s
Spain U-19 League (1): 1992–93
Spain U-19 Cup (2): 1990–91, 1992–93
Extremadura
Segunda División promotion (1): 1997–98
Tenerife
Segunda División promotion (1): 2000–01
Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Internazionale
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Individual awards Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (6): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009, April 2013

Im not knocking Moyes, im defending Benitez

I know mate, but some were comparing Moyes in a higher light than his acomplishments should deserve. I agree he's done a great job... However, until he wins some trophies, he's acomplished very little.

You're right. And Moyes has also never delivered any classic, knockabout, FACTS-based, prime-time comedy 😆

YEes he is a proven winner LMA - league managers association award three times with Everton and Rafa has not wont it
Fergie is the only other one with three

yours
Optimist
[s]Manchester [/s]
Kent

Thing is (I hope), ManU might actually give Moyes a few seasons. I'd be very surprised if they sacked him after a trophyless season next year; unless he somehow completely lost the fans and dressing room. There's no way they'll finish out of the top four. They'd have to really try to finish outside the top two FFS. Signs are (here we go...) that Rogers, given time, will get Liverpool playing well again. Certainly he's got some of the under-achievers playing more well this season. Sadly, he'll need a big blank cheque over the summer for a midfielder and some WC defenders. I hope he's given a few seasons tbh, as do I hope Moyes is given time. I struggle to feel any pity for the likes of Mancini and Mourinho.

If he brings Andy Carrol back you'll be top 4, for sure, next season Bravisimo 😉

Oh FFS, why even bother trying to keep the discussion on topic binbins. Give it a rest FFS.

Signs are (here we go...) that Rogers, given time, will get Liverpool playing well again. Certainly he's got some of the under-achievers playing more well this season.

Rogers seems like a good egg tbh and he seems to have improved them if not the results or the table position. His signings all seem like good o ones and if I was a liverpool fan [ inserts joke to annoy DD here] I would be pleasantly optimistic with what he has done.

Moving in the right direction for sure.

I agree it is nearly impossible to get Man U out of the top 4 and I think a 6 year contract was a sign of stability. I think he will get some time but the expectations are also massive and he will be on learning curve re Europe and being at the sharp end of the league. he will make mistakes but hopefully not to many

more well

Eh? Oh FFS...teaches me to stop mid post to take a phone call. 😳

Assuming Liverpool beat QPR on Sunday at Anfield, they'll finish 9 points better off than last season and 25ish goals better off...

As a Liverpool fan, i'm happy (in a relative context of course) with this season compared to last.

Yes you have made progress and assuming Everton struggle without Moyes [l next season then you are pushing for top 6 and Europe - where you belong tbh.
If Tottenham loose Bale you could even get top 5

And one can't complain at finishing below Everton. They deserved to finish above even a few, below whom they finished (the last bit for JY 😀 ). I'd fear for Everton if they got Martinez though.

you should spend some time in Liverpool they can complain about that and the toffee's make sure they know who is the best team in the City 😉

Yes not sure about Martinez...it a strange one nice football or stay in the Premier league. I speak to many { blackburn] rovers fans who hated Big Sam and his long ball football but look at where they are now. Martinez teams may be pretty but they are also pretty crap
May do well at a better team with better players but I would have my doubts- will leave if they get relegated IMHO

Sorry Bravisimo. Will try to resist in future 🙁

Getting back on topic, according to the City fans in the office, it seems Mancini wasn't sacked for his failure to deliver. It was more political. They got shut because of the deterioration of his relationship with the owners, and some of the senior players. Apparently since he won the Premiership, he'd been getting a bit big for his boots around the club

Junkyard - lazarus
you should spend some time in Liverpool they can complain about that and the toffee's make sure they know who is the best team in the City

Yes not sure about Martinez...it a strange one nice football or stay in the Premier league. I speak to many { blackburn] rovers fans who hated Big Sam and his long ball football but look at where they are now. Martinez teams may be pretty but they are also pretty crap
May do well at a better team with better players but I would have my doubts- will leave if they get relegated IMHO

My doubts with Martinez is having the sort of players to suit his style of play. He's spent serveral years getting the players in to suit his style. Everton play to their strengths, whilst they have some decent passers and players, strength power and fittness are higher up the list than at Wigan.

I know we all probably had a giggle at "holistic" but I can see their point. I know there was a certain amount of deification going on this week, but even I found myself being very impressed with Fergie and his attitude towards the other staff in the club - stories of him having a cuppa with the kit cleaners, the turnstile operators etc etc. He knew that club inside out and had an excellent relationship with everybody in it (and wasn't afraid to give players the boot when he had to...some perhaps too soon, but hey, who's counting now?). I imagine he'll make sure Moyes has everybody's faith (his involvement in picking his successor has probably done enough tbh). Moyes will have to make sure he does the same thing. Mancini had almost no relationship with the club and always seemed distant. One could never see him building any kind of dynasty. I (hopefully not misplaced) hope Rogers is that kind of guy too. Who knows, maybe we'll see an attitude change towards management. Maybe, just maybe, the City owners want someone more in the mould of Moyes, Fergie etc.

Yours,

An Optimist
Brizzle.

I think rogers has the potential for sure but it is hard - look at wenger even talk of him getting the sack this season /going- to get the loyalty from the fans never mind the board.

I think he is going in the right direction
Those two signings were quality this year Sturridge and that Brazillian fella forgot his name - certainly more in the Liverpool mould

The rich clubs just want instant success then they change it for some more instant success - lets not forget the special one was sacked and then Roberto won the Champions league and got sacked,hardly surprising mancini went.
Having long term Man U players also helped as no doubt having proper Liverpool players [ gerrard, carragher reina etc] help rogers
City have few if any and neither do chelsea

Coutinho.

Terry and Lampard?

Ah yes. The benign, stabalising, and nurturing dressing room presence of John Terry

Who's words of selfless wisdom they can benefit from if they can avoid getting shot by Ashley Cole first 😆

Ah yes. The benign, stabalising, and nurturing dressing room presence of John Terry

Who's words of selfless wisdom they can benefit from if they can avoid getting shot by Ashley Cole first

Re Benitez - he's a love him / hate him guy. I cannot warm to him - he is over sumg, little humility, I don't know what it is. Mourinho is tyhe same but there is something more emotional to like about him than the fat spanish waiter ...

But I would take Benitez above Hughes back or David O'Leary ...

Terry and Lampard?

You don't get much more Chelsea than Terry & Lampard is as much a one club player as you'll expect to see nowadays.

Not to mention Ryan Bertrand, Nathan Ake & Josh McEachran. Although whether Ake or McEachran will make the breakthrough that Bertrand had remains to be seen.

Tribalism & short-sightedness in football, you've got to love it... 🙄

ps I freely admit that CFC displays the very worst vices of the modern game. If I'm honest I sometimes long for the days when we were crap..edit: It's actually very embarrassing to be a CFC currently fan... 😳

Glad hes gone though, sick of hearing 'the City manager mankini' as it always reminds me of

[img] [/img]

ok terry i wil give you but lamos is not a life long chelsea boy he is west ham but yes they will give the tradition of the club - i said few if any and I meant few teams had players who came through the ranks and had 10 +years at the club - Richards at man City and look how he was treated

I also agree that Hart was badly treated as the interview after the real madrid defeat he only said you dont give away a lead like that and it was a bland Tv interview tbh with a bit of a we messed up - it did not deserve to be smacked down for it as the team needed leaders on the pitch

I think the Tevez think must have meant he lost authority ..you will never play here again ...oh welcome back - would fergie have allowed
that?

would fergie have allowed that?

Wayne Rooney
Ronaldo ....

what he said they would never play for the club they went away for 6 months then he let them play..missed all of that
TBH i dont even know what story you are referring to
Scholes once refused to play and he fined him 2 weeks wages and that was it. I think when fergie said you would never play for the club again you never played for the club again and I dont think he ever said it to the press tbh

Richards at man City and look how he was treated

How was he treated? He has been out for most of the season injured and Zabaleta has arguably been the best right back in the premiership this year, one of city's few heroes throughout the season. It can be hard to displace a form player at any team.

Interesting people mentioning up & coming managers on this thread, Moyes hasn't won a major trophy, Roberto Martinez at Wigan winning a major trophy this season is an exception rather than a rule.

It's a shame that the days are long gone where someone like Fergie or Clough could take a provincial team to the top of the league & Europe without a massive cash injection.