[Closed] Manchester's Police doing what the Met are scared of doing!

Ah the PC brigade and liberal/softy leftie rubbish. Are they supposed to be insults?

When has a 'short sharp shock' ever, [i]ever[/i] worked?

thats an invalid point and you know it really deep down - they had no respect for the law/people before other than there own sort, you know it, i know and just about every other law abiding ciitzen knows it...if they had respect why do it in the first place? they dont, its clear, they probably have even less now they know the police cant really do anything...vicious circle!

they have no intention of ever abiding by the law, thats a fact! i genuinely cannot see them heading to church in the next few years to be forgiven for their terrible ways!

its just a fact, some people are born into scum, become scum, and create more scum....theres nothing as a country we can do about it, because the law doesnt allow it, and what with how ever many goody two shoes around its never going to change.

Lifer - Member
Ah the PC brigade and liberal/softy leftie rubbish. Are they supposed to be insults?

When has a 'short sharp shock' ever, ever worked?

and the pc/ liberal/softie approach has done the country a great deal of good has'nt it 😆

The United States has very tough policies regarding law and order, but crime still exists. It is not a simple problem to resolve.

On the other hand, I would suggest that mass theft and arson needs a strong, decisive response in order to prevent it happening next there is a warm, dry evening in the school holidays.

If a few scumbags get beaten hard with batons, then so be it. If you don't want such treatment then don't attend a looting session -It gives rioting a bad name.

they had no respect for the law/people before other than there own sort, you know it

I do know it, yes.

its just a fact, some people are born into scum, become scum, and create more scum....theres nothing as a country we can do about it,

There is, actually. People are scum because they don't give a sh*t. Give them something to give a sh*t about and they respond. This is a complex area of human psychology, trust me.

The behaviour of some people is a massive problem, and it's one we need to fix not give up on.

On the other hand, I would suggest that mass theft and arson needs a strong, decisive response

Agreed. However the police rampaging through the streets beating up anyone in a hoodie is NOT GOING TO HELP!

Lifer whether we like it or not we have people on the front lines with very pointy sticks blowing people apart with ordanance designed/manufactured here to save out society.

Closer to home..
Go out on the beat sometime in an inner city and you'll be amazed at just how scary some people can be.

I've just done a 18 hour shift followed by 5 hours sleep then a 15 hour shift in full riot gear on the streets of Manchester trying to stop these shits form looting and assaulting people
I wish some of you lot would come with me and see if you still take the high moral ground
These people really have no morals and do not deserve any respect at all,show them any sympathy and they take it as a sign of weakness and take advantage.
Now that might not be a nice thought for you all sat at home with your idealistic views, but it's the truth, if the police went on strike for a day, just imagine what these people would do, they would be in your houses taking what ever they wanted.
I think you should give a big vote of thanks to all police officers in this country

easygirl - some of us already have but once again, thank you

and the pc/ liberal/softie approach has done the country a great deal of good has'nt it

You mean the most punitive judicail system in Europe? where we lock up more of our population for longer periods for lessor crimes?

I'd like to try a more liberal and sane judicail system. One based evidence of what works. What we have now doesn't work and every times its made more punative it works less.

Easygirl, I am not saying we should try and sit down with a cup of tea for a nice cosy chat with them.

Don't get me wrong, I have a great deal of respect for the police when they act as they should ie not just thugs in a different uniform, which sadly does happen from time to time. The police seem (from this side of an internet browser) to be taking a great deal of care to act intelligently here which is absolutely the right thing to do.

I am of course deeply indebted to everyone putting their life on the line for our safety and that's why I keep sticking up for them on here, especially a few months ago when they were being branded as mindless thugs 🙂

easygirl - Member
I've just done a 18 hour shift followed by 5 hours sleep then a 15 hour shift in full riot gear on the streets of Manchester trying to stop these shits form looting and assaulting people
I wish some of you lot would come with me and see if you still take the high moral ground
These people really have no morals and do not deserve any respect at all,show them any sympathy and they take it as a sign of weakness and take advantage.
Now that might not be a nice thought for you all sat at home with your cost views, but it's the truth, if the police went on strike for a day, just imagine what these people would do, they would be in your houses taking what ever they wanted.
I think you should give a big vote of thanks to all police officers in this country

amen! best post of the thread. thread closed.

i find this thread most amusing - most people who live where this has happened, are getting behind the police and thanking them!

yet in STW towers, here we are having to justify why the police are using brute and force to try and end it 😆

you seriously could'nt write it, seriously! why not just let the streets free and let them damage/steal everything in sight!

as long as they dont come near your home/business why should you care?!?!

you should seriously take a look at your 'perfect' world views and seriously distort them somehow, as im not sure what planet half you middle aged men live on

I think you should give a big vote of thanks to all police officers in this country

Happy to do so for all those who try to stay near enough within the law. I understand that without them my life is poorer.

thank you. Have a virtual cup of tea on me. ( or glass of something stronger)

hora - Member

Lifer whether we like it or not we have people on the front lines with very pointy sticks blowing people apart with ordanance designed/manufactured here to save out society.

Closer to home..
Go out on the beat sometime in an inner city and you'll be amazed at just how scary some people can be.

You what?

Oscillate Wildly - Member

and the pc/ liberal/softie approach has done the country a great deal of good has'nt it

What pc/liberal/softie policies - specifically - are you referring to?

And both of you instead of whatabouttery how about you answer

When has a 'short sharp shock' ever worked?[/TJ]

TandemJeremy - Member

I'd like to try a more liberal and sane judicail system. One based evidence of what works. What we have now doesn't work and every times its made more punative it works less.

I agree to a large extent, but in the face of mass looting, arson and assault, I think that very strong, decisive action should be used to discourage future attempts by making the perpetrators think before they decide to destroy their local area.

After that, by all means, try to help the disaffected and disengaged people of Britain, but you'll be trying for a long time whilst ambition goes no further than owning a big TV, shiny trainers and bathing in Cristal (or whatever can be found in Bargain Booze) with your ho'(s)

Lifer - Member

hora - Member

Lifer whether we like it or not we have people on the front lines with very pointy sticks blowing people apart with ordanance designed/manufactured here to save out society.

Closer to home..
Go out on the beat sometime in an inner city and you'll be amazed at just how scary some people can be.

You what?

Oscillate Wildly - Member

and the pc/ liberal/softie approach has done the country a great deal of good has'nt it

What pc/liberal/softie policies - specifically - are you referring to?

And both of you instead of whatabouttery how about you answer

When has a 'short sharp shock' ever worked?[/TJ

perhaps if given the chance, we would get to see....the state this country is in is from your pc/liberal/softie policies, as you state when have we had a short sharp shock??? you are answering your own question there sir.

easygirl - Member

I've just done a 18 hour shift followed by 5 hours sleep then a 15 hour shift in full riot gear on the streets of Manchester trying to stop these shits form looting and assaulting people
I wish some of you lot would come with me and see if you still take the high moral ground
These people really have no morals and do not deserve any respect at all,show them any sympathy and they take it as a sign of weakness and take advantage.
Now that might not be a nice thought for you all sat at home with your idealistic views, but it's the truth, if the police went on strike for a day, just imagine what these people would do, they would be in your houses taking what ever they wanted.
I think you should give a big vote of thanks to all police officers in this country

Well done and well said. Unreserved thanks!

Oscillate.

Let me explain something. Please read carefully and think a bit before replying.

I am not saying we should let them do whatever we want.

I am saying that if we just charge in and beat them all up it will not actually help.

I think you should give a big vote of thanks to all police officers in this country

Erm, in fairness, and it may apply more to your leaders than you 'grunts'; there are an awful lot of people wanting to know why you jolly well have not done more to help protect them and their properties. Which is a very fair question. Because what people are seeing on telly, are scenes of mayhem with he police seemingly doing nothing to stop it. And then scenes where coppers are breaking the Law and beating people posing no immediate or apparent threat.

You want us to see it from your point of view, that's fine. But you also need to understand our points of view too.

Many people simply aren't seeing you do the job they expect you to. Hence the anger and resentment.

And, like the fact that these idiots are just a tiny proportion of the general public, it's just a tiny proportion of your own number who have done serious damage to the image and credibility of the police, speshly the Met. Many of us are left feeling we can no longer trust the police in the way that we would expect and like to.

But yeah, there are many coppers out there on the front line, in a place where I really don't want to be, doing their jobs so I can (hopefully) sleep safe in my bed tonight. So, good on you all for doing so. And good on all the fire personnel, the ambulance services, the doctors and nurses and hospital staff and all those out trying to protect their communities and each other.

yet in STW towers, here we are having to justify why the police are using brute and force to try and end it

No - we are questioning why on that clip a copper beat someone when there clearly was no need. Not the same thing at all. I have previously defended the cops right to use force so long as it is proportionate and reasonable and in circumstances like this I feel a large degree of latitude is reasonable.

Oscillate Wildly - Member
perhaps if given the chance, we would get to see....the state this country is in is from your pc/liberal/softie policies, as you state when have we had a short sharp shock??? you are answering your own question there sir.

So not one example of a) a 'pc/liberal/softie' policy and b) when a short sharp shock has worked then?

And if you're going to try and misrepresent what I've said probably best to not quote me next time.

molgrips - Member
Oscillate.

Let me explain something. Please read carefully and think a bit before replying.

I am not saying we should let them do whatever we want.

I am saying that if we just charge in and beat them all up it will not actually help.

oh i hear you, and i hear you loud and clear - nice idea, but whats the alternative?? again sitting behind a screen makes it easy to produce these fantastic ideas, out on the street, in the middle of a riot not so easy!

but what makes you the judge to say it 'wont actually help'?? how on earth has anything else they tried actually helped?? as far as we have seen prior to this the police have not done a great deal of beating up - merely just standing the ground whilst they are attacked, at what point does that seem right? hope they go away?? hmmmmm

Elfin
You do not have a clue
The grunts as you put it, are on the ground making the split second decisions, the gold and silver commanders have overall control, but in reality the inspectors and Sgts in the serials are running the show, only Held back by the gold commanders, who seem to give the rioters much too much respect, if it were down to the officers on the ground, I can guarantee you they would not be fronting us out and throwing stones at us for long

yet in STW towers, here we are having to justify why the police are using brute and force

Er, no, we're asking why some police officers seem to think it's ok to break the Law, and why some folk think that's ok.... 🙄

Lifer - Member

Oscillate Wildly - Member
perhaps if given the chance, we would get to see....the state this country is in is from your pc/liberal/softie policies, as you state when have we had a short sharp shock??? you are answering your own question there sir.

So not one example of a) a 'pc/liberal/softie' policy and b) when a short sharp shock has worked then?

And if you're going to try and misrepresent what I've said probably best to not quote me next time.

i have not claimed its worked have i at any point?!?!?! im stating that it could well be the way forward since everything else (nicely nicely approach) clearly has failed these thugs....

still nice to know these youths have people like you to rely on 😆

oh i hear you, and i hear you loud and clear - nice idea, but whats the alternative??

I dunno!

I'm not claiming to be an expert in police tactics. However I have a pretty good guess as to what would happen if we tried just beating up everyone in sight.

but what makes you the judge to say it 'wont actually help'??

Nothing - it is simply my opinion.

Held back by the gold commanders, who seem to give the rioters much too much respect

Is it not to try and avoid a PR sh*tstorm? (honest question)

Good effort easygirl. I agree with the sentiments of those that think folk should get off their ivory towers, until they are facing these people on the street face to face, they have no idea of the type of mentality.

In broader terms:

Personally, the irrespective of how many people are locked up, the actual time they spend in the jail is too lenient ... its a cushy time for most people ... with all the home conforts in a cell. how about back to basic cells and if they want to know whats happening, give me a paper to read. not TV.

likewise... benefits... beyond a certain timeframe of claiming benefits, people should have to do community service to earn their benefits. there are far to many people sitting on their arses expecting a living handed to them. ( dont try and convince me otherwise, i see it in my job day to day ) Wouldn't need to be much, but if people were made to look after their own area in order to live in their area, I think a lot of issues would reduce.

easygirl - Member
I've just done a 18 hour shift followed by 5 hours sleep then a 15 hour shift in full riot gear on the streets of Manchester trying to stop these shits form looting and assaulting people
I wish some of you lot would come with me and see if you still take the high moral ground
These people really have no morals and do not deserve any respect at all,show them any sympathy and they take it as a sign of weakness and take advantage.
Now that might not be a nice thought for you all sat at home with your idealistic views, but it's the truth, if the police went on strike for a day, just imagine what these people would do, they would be in your houses taking what ever they wanted.
I think you should give a big vote of thanks to all police officers in this country

Thankyou doesn't even come close..

If we ever meet, I'll buy you a pint. Or 6...( Unless your in rig, then it'll be a wet..)

Elfinsafety - Member

yet in STW towers, here we are having to justify why the police are using brute and force

Er, no, we're asking why some police officers seem to think it's ok to break the Law, and why some folk think that's ok....

i think the country would be in a greater place if there was some form of legislation that allowed them to overstep the law on occasions such as this....

i give up.....

please police, dont bother trying to stop them, let the STW world tell you all how to do your jobs from in front of a screen, in their own little idylic world

Elfin
You do not have a clue

Did you read this bit?

Erm, in fairness, and it may apply more to your [b]leaders[/b] than you 'grunts'

I'm sorry if the term 'grunt' is offensive. Weren't meant to be. I was merely referring to the way front line police will be seen by politicians and public alike.

And I think we can safely say; the senior leadership of the Met especially have a [i]lot[/i] of questions to answer....

molgrips - Member

oh i hear you, and i hear you loud and clear - nice idea, but whats the alternative??

I dunno!

I'm not claiming to be an expert in police tactics. However I have a pretty good guess as to what would happen if we tried just beating up everyone in sight.

but what makes you the judge to say it 'wont actually help'??

Nothing - it is simply my opinion.

and therefore its simply my opinion that it would help - happy days 😆

the irrespective of how many people are locked up, the actual time they spend in the jail is too lenient ... its a cushy time for most people

I have feeling that if you made jail worse it would only p*ss people off more, and p*ssed off people might be more likely to commit crime again...?

let the STW world tell you all how to do your jobs from in front of a screen

I'm not doing anything of the sort!

in their own little idylic world

If you think that being hit with a baton will set a youth on the path of righteousness and make all the hatred go away then I think your world is idyllic!

i think the country would be in a greater place if there was some form of legislation that allowed them to overstep the law on occasions such as this....

Sigh. In order for the Law to be effective, it has to apply to all people, equally and indiscriminately. Do you seriously think the country would really be in a 'greater place' if the Law was unequal and discriminated against certain groups or individuals?

i give up.....

I would, if I were you.

Elfinsafety - Member

i think the country would be in a greater place if there was some form of legislation that allowed them to overstep the law on occasions such as this....

Sigh. In order for the Law to be effective, it has to apply to all people, equally and indiscriminately. Do you seriously think the country would really be in a 'greater place' if the Law was unequal and discriminated against certain groups or individuals?

i give up.....

I would, if I were you.

hahah certain groups or individuals 😆 ohhh dear please do not discriminate against the group of looters/thugs/arsonists etc etc etc 😆 JESUS H CHRIST..

id also give up if i were you, given that, ive seen a picture of you 😆

Sigh. In order for the Law to be effective, it has to apply to all people, equally and indiscriminately. Do you seriously think the country would really be in a 'greater place' if the Law was unequal and discriminated against certain groups or individuals?

Some people here are living in a bit of an idealized world.

In the STW world, calm, secure police officers are able to make rational, carefully thought out decisions in full possession of all of the available facts. Meanwhile thugs are hooligans take care not to threaten these officers in order to give them the space and time needed to act fully and absolutely within the law.

That's not how the real world works anymore. Sorry.

ohhh dear please do not discriminate against the group of looters/thugs/arsonists etc etc etc

Oh dear. It appears you jolly well have not actually understood what I was actually talking about, and I fear it might take a tad longer than I am willing to take, to explain it to you....

id also give up if i were you, given that, ive seen a picture of you

When you look this good mate, you don't even have to try... 8) 😆

Now you've gone and upset some of the folks on here

Tell me something new... 🙂

i understood it fully and i understand your point in an ideal world, the fact is the world isnt an ideal place and sometimes it may call upon things to be done differently and bend the law within good reason, as a police force i think they should have that power, just an opinion, it obviously is wrong im sure you'll agree......

there is little point trying to get any point across on this forum where religion/politics and the likes come into place, some of the folk are far to stuck up there own harrrrases to see anything other than black or white.

i think i have more in common with these hooligans than i do the folk of STW forum 🙁 sad times saddd saddddddd times 🙁

Elfinsafety - Member

Sigh. In order for the Law to be effective, it has to apply to all people, equally and indiscriminately.

The trouble right now is that it's not applying at all to some groups of the population.

Oscillate Wildly - Member

i have not claimed its worked have i at any point?!?!?! im stating that it could well be the way forward since everything else (nicely nicely approach) clearly has failed these thugs....

still nice to know these youths have people like you to rely on

No, but I asked for an example on which you base the idea that it 'could well be the way forward' because that's the way that policy should be formed, not on kneejerk reaction.

Still more empty rhetoric, any specifics of 'nicely nicely approach'?

there are an awful lot of people wanting to know why you jolly well have not done more to help protect them and their properties. Which is a very fair question.

Not a fair question at all, from my perspective here in Croydon. I reckon the police did everything which could be expected from them, and yet Croydon was [i]still[/i] one of the worse hit areas in London/the UK.

They secured the city centre long before any trouble started, and the looters simply went to other areas - have you any idea how many shops there are in Croydon ffs ? If the Old Bill had left the centre of Croydon the damage and looting would have been far far worse.

I appreciate everything which easygirl says in his post, and I have no problem with police tactics at all, from what I know. I really can't comment on the OP's vid because I don't know the background to it, or whether they were looters, but on the face of it, it doesn't look good imo.

In the STW world, calm, secure police officers are able to make rational, carefully thought out decisions in full possession of all of the available facts.

What made you write that out?

The trouble right now is that it's not applying at all to some groups of the population.

Wrong. The Law applies to everyone, equally. Some are choosing to break it. The Law still [i]applies[/i] to them though.

i understood it fully

Ok then, explain how.

Easygirl, thank you for the work you're putting and please ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he's a small man seeking a large audience hence the constant provocative comments to get a reaction.

well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin' fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not....sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

To the Londoners, do you you feel the way the media has presented recent events reflects what you have seen and experienced first hand?

Oscillate Wildly - Member

still nice to know these youths have people like you to rely on

Didn't see that little nugget - where have I defended the actions of any criminals? All I've said is what ernie has at the bottom of the previous page, from the video there is no way to tell what is going on, except the police [i]appear[/i] to overreact as it is not apparent that they are in any particular danger*. Just looks like summary justice which is something no-one should support.

*at that point.

Oscillate Wildly - Member

well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin' fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not....sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

What the bejiggers are you on about?

The problem is, OW, that if you let the policeman on the ground decide who's guilty and what their sentence should be, then mistakes are unavoidable, and you end up with the local community up in arms and the press whipping up loads of hatred against good coppers who are just trying to do what's right - as has happened many times in recent years, and in fact what started this whole thing off.

I think that this is what the police in charge were trying to avoid...

For instance, just watching Newsnight, there was a clip in a montage of a policeman in riot gear running up to a couple walking across the road who are clearly on a social night out and hitting them with a baton. Doesn't look good 🙁

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind?

I believe that, in law, a person is distinct from and not defined by the crimes he commits. So all humans are equal, and if they commit a crime they will all face the same punishment regardless of who they are.

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Manchester's Police doing what the Met are scared of doing!
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molgrips - Member

In the STW world, calm, secure police officers are able to make rational, carefully thought out decisions in full possession of all of the available facts.

What made you write that out?

Posted 9 minutes ago # Report-PostElfinsafety - Member

The trouble right now is that it's not applying at all to some groups of the population.

Wrong. The Law applies to everyone, equally. Some are choosing to break it. The Law still applies to them though.

i understood it fully

Ok then, explain how.

Posted 9 minutes ago # Report-Postcraigxxl - Member
Easygirl, thank you for the work you're putting and please ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he's a small man seeking a large audience hence the constant provocative comments to get a reaction.

Posted 4 minutes ago # Report-PostOscillate Wildly - Member
well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin' fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not....sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

Posted 4 minutes ago # Edit Rusty Spanner - Member
To the Londoners, do you you feel the way the media has presented recent events reflects what you have seen and experienced first hand?

Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-PostLifer - Member

Oscillate Wildly - Member

still nice to know these youths have people like you to rely on

Didn't see that little nugget - where have I defended the actions of any criminals? All I've said is what ernie has at the bottom of the previous page, from the video there is no way to tell what is going on, except the police appear to overreact as it is not apparent that they are in any particular danger. Just looks like summary justice which is something no-one should support.

it t'wass a gem was'nt it! and its hard to criticise given we dont know the full story of it....but its all opinion, lets hope its sorted regardless, i for one dont want a pathetic argument on here about it, id prefer to see it not happen from day one.

peace out brutha

as i say, id love to sit here and talk more drivel about your almighty and correct views on life, but im off out lootin now

toodle pip!

Lifer - Member

Oscillate Wildly - Member

well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin' fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not....sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

What the bejiggers are you on about

*pulls down elfins pants for you to enter*

Easygirl, thank you for the work you're putting and please do not ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he's as entitled to his onion as anyone else in this Democracy you are working to protect.

F
T
F
Y....

I am merely expressing the need for Law and Order to operate correctly, fairly and without prejudice. Care to explain why you have such a big problem with that?

Oscillate Wildly makes a fair point here Elfie :

[i]"when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not....sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used"[/i]

I don't think you appreciate how bad/dangerous the situation was. I don't think the Old Bill could afford the luxury of sitting back and doing everything as you would expect it to be done in an ideal situation. I'm actually surprised, and very grateful, that the loss of life wasn't worse.

Rusty - for me it was quite a bit worse than the way the media presented it. Not their fault - I think you need to see and experience things personally to get a better picture.

Nope still not a clue.

ernie_lynch - Member

Oscillate Wildly makes a fair point here Elfie :

"when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not....sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used"

I don't think you appreciate how bad/dangerous the situation was. I don't think the Old Bill could afford the luxury of sitting back and doing everything as you would expect it to be done in an ideal situation. I'm actually surprised, and very grateful, that the loss of life wasn't worse.

This relates to the video?

If the Police need to use force to stop a crime being committed then I don't think anyone will argue with that.

Ernie - have you looked at the video clip? I remember you being very vociferous in the past about cops using unreasonable force in the case of Tomlinison and a female protester the same day. Do you think it was reasonable? It was far more force than Tomlinson got.

I am quite happy for cops to break a few heads were there is a need.

What the bejiggers are you on about?

In fairness, it is quite late...

*pulls down elfins pants for you to enter*

What an incredibly intelligent and erudite comment. I won't bother continuing in this 'discussion', as I'm clearly out of my intellectual depth here, against such a heavyweight....

This relates to the video?

I have no idea. I have already said that I don't know the background to that video or whether they were looters, but that on the face of it, it doesn't look good.

If however, they were looters/arsonists (but why were they on bikes? 😕 ) then 'immobilising' them by beating the shit out of them is probably, under the circumstances, acceptable. I still don't like it though, but I can live with it.

EDIT : I've just looked at the start of that video again, and to be fair, although it looks as if the 'attack' might have been a bit painful, it doesn't look that particularly savage.

ahhhh the old intellect comment - nice to know people with iq's of over 300 are only allowed to have an opinion, what an incredibly intelligent, fair comment to make....

shame as by the sounds of it you could have stopped this single handedly!

elfin for prezzz

Ta ernie

So OW, any examples of specific PC/liberal/softly softly/leftie policies yet?

And after your comment I think feigning insult is a bit rich.

Oscillate Wildly makes a fair point here Elfie :

Not really. I think we can all appreciate the severity of the situation.

We're discussing the disproportionate amount of force used by a few coppers against people who appeared to pose no apparent immediate threat to them or anyone else. Quite why OW went blethering on about totally unrelated matters, I have no idea.

Of course force must be used in certain situations. Of course Human Life should be protected at all costs. Of course sometimes on the spot decisions must be made which afterwards may not be 'by the book'. Act now, face the consequences later as long as the main goal is to protect life. We're not arguing against that.

In this particular situation, it does appear that unreasonable and disproportionate excessive force was used. Which is illegal. And the issue at stake here is that if the police are seen to be breaking the Law., then that undermines the whole fabric of Law and Order, and public confidence in the police to do their duty according to the Law.

I don't think some people get this though.

ahhhh the old intellect comment - nice to know people with iq's of over 300 are only allowed to have an opinion

Well, that's me shafted then! 😆

i read the daily mail, i want to end my life. bye bye.

What softly softly approach? We lock up more of our citizens for longer for lessor crimes than most comparable nations, we have very harsh immigration laws, we have very mean benefits.

to name a few of the main culprits at present, immigration, benefits, general petty criminals, and your general thieving scum which im sure all of the above are mostly to blame for this looting at present

What a load of bollox. If you don't mind me being frank.

EDIT : That was a quick edit Oscillate Wildly. Still, fair play to you for realising that it was complete bollox and deleting it so quickly.

ernie_lynch - Member

"to name a few of the main culprits at present, immigration, benefits, general petty criminals, and your general thieving scum which im sure all of the above are mostly to blame for this looting at present"

What a load of bollox. If you don't mind being frank.

Sneaky edit fail?

Best typo of the night; Apparently Elfin is entitled to his onion...

Seriously though Elfin, you come across as a very articulate and compassionate person. I think it a great shame that you seem to make the mistake of regarding your opinion of what is right as a fact rather than just opinion, in this instance. I feel that your arguments are somewhat weakened by their preachy, somewhat patronising nature. Maybe try to work on that?

That said, I respect you opinion, even if I disagree with it on this occasion. Regards.

its not true is it! the looters were clearly all middle class hooray henry heroes doing a bit of 'rebelling' against the system!

one finger up to the system old boy!

lets just all put this to bed and agree now that the police are to blame!

the looters will soon become national heroes, and the police officers will all be suspended for being terribly harsh!

clear the streets, lets not have any more trouble, let the looters roam free and damage the country to their hearts contents, get their frustrations out on how they have had such a bad life out once and for all!

we neeed more looters!!!!!!!!! the country neeeds youuuuu!!!

Stop making a prat of yourself Oscillate Wildly

Christ. Shut up.

Seriously though Elfin, you come across as a very articulate and compassionate person.

Why thank you.

I think it a great shame that you seem to make the mistake of regarding your opinion of what is right as a fact rather than just opinion, in this instance. I feel that your arguments are somewhat weakened by their preachy, somewhat patronising nature. Maybe try to work on that?

All I have done on this thread is present the Law as it is. I have no doubt that those charged with upholding the Law; police officers, lawyers, judges etc, would agree with me. Of course people can express how they'd like things to be, but if we're discussing the Law, then it must be understood what the Law actually is!

In this case, I'm presenting facts, not simply onions.

As for 'patronising'; well, quite frankly, if people want to respond in the manner some of them have, ie in a very rude and insulting manner, then I'll respond as I see fit. And if that comes across as patronising, then so be it. Take one comment by OW for example, with a suggestion that Lifer and I indulge in a particular form of intimate activity. Is that not just rude and insulting? I think such comments are deserving of contempt, quite frankly. Which is how I'll treat them.

EDIT: OW appears to have imploded, so probbly best to leave quietly....

just seen on the news the looters pooped their pants when they hit Dalston! sounds about right. Place hasn't changed much then I gather! Don't mess with the Turks!

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/08/201181042453833564.html

"Our local shopkeeper refused to close. He said 'we are Turkish' as explanation,"

quality.

Easygirl, thank you for the work you're putting and please ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he's a small man seeking a large audience hence the constant provocative comments to get a reaction.

I really wish youd take your views to another forum elfin. You are always stirring, trolling or having a chip on your shoulder. Stw would be a far better place without it.

( yeah I know he's one of the "regulars" and no doubt the others will leap to his defence but just look at the main posters on threads that go tits up.)

Take one comment by OW for example, with a suggestion that Lifer and I indulge in a particular form of intimate activity. Is that not just rude and insulting?

RESULT!!! 😆

and on that note, nitey nite

ernie_lynch - Member
Stop making a prat of yourself Oscillate Wildly

im just joining in what is the norm on these parts, its top notch i must add!

Fourundred! 😀

We were worried about Dalston, but I thought that the strong Turkish community there would put off any wannabe looters...

Seems to be calming down round here. For the first night in days, there's no sirens every two seconds....

I really wish youd take your views to another forum elfin. You are always stirring, trolling or having a chip on your shoulder.

Ok, right, and your comment was to do what, exactly? 'Stirring', you say? 😕

Think I'll stay here if it's all the same to you. Sorry to dissapoint, but quite frankly, who are you to tell me what to do? 🙄

Here's something a bit less contentious for you:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/its-elfins-tuesday-architectural-appreciation-thread-towers-and-skyscrapers

Enjoy. 🙂