[Closed] Manchester's Police doing what the Met are scared of doing!

bloody cyclists... 🙂

No lights or reflectors, tut-tut! Ka-Boom!

Not just a tinsy bit OTT? [b]No arrests made[/b] just beat a guy on the ground with your stick.

TAG had a dreadful rep when I used to live in Manchester

Hmmm... gotta say, some of that looked a bit too heavy handed for my liking, I reckon those coppers could be in for some trouble as a result, particularly the chap who puts in a couple of kicks whilst the guy is on the ground...

Yeah, they're being all big and brave when faced with just a couple of people who aren't actually doing owt else other than riding bikes along a road, but I din't see them do owt when loads of people were smashing up shops in Manchester, on telly last night....

Doesn't really look like 'reasonable force' that; the cyclists weren't behaving in a violent manner from what we can see, and I woon't be surprised if the plod face a bit of stick from that. Incidents like that serve only to inflame a situation even further.

Violent thugs....

shades of Rodney King there..

+1 there TJ.

Looks like they knocked them to the ground, put a few boots in and then wander off.

Mob violence anyone!!!

No reliable account, don't know the full story. But if arrests genuinely weren't made, then that wasn't policing, it was assault.

Hmmm that needs a bit of explaining. On it's own it just looks like police bullying.

+1; Just looks like Police kicking the shit out of some lads riding bikes for no other reason that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Police like that are worse than the rioters, IMHO. As they are supposed to set the example.

Might be a bit heavy, however maybe it might just work. There was loads of stuff on the TV and radio yesterday with oinks saying they are not scared of the law and a £50 fine or community service etc.

Surely this is effective. When chav boy sees pictures of other chavs getting a good kicking he will probably think twice about going out tonight. Currently as it stands they think they are untouchable.

Rich - It was pitch black so therefore late evening at least. The lads were riding round in a group with hoodies on, in an area that obviously was having trouble. They should have been at home tucked up in bed, or at least engaged their brain cells and stayed away from an area where trouble was kicking off.

And what's that copper throwing over the fence at 0:56? evidence perhaps?

No arrests made? then those guys should be facing disciplinary action for sure, just 'official legitamised' thugs at work... it's exactly this kind of sh1t that gives the police a bad name and fuels the fire between them and those they're [b]MEANT TO PROTECT[/b]...

FunkyDunc, +1

Surely this is effective. When chav boy sees pictures of other chavs getting a good kicking he will probably think twice about going out tonight.

No, 'Chav Boy' may think 'if the fuzz are gonna be violent thugs, then I'll arm myself up with a knife, bat or even a petrol bomb to even the score'...

That's just a bunch of violent thugs attacking people. The fact that they are wearing uniforms changes nothing. Cowardly scum.

I did think it was OTT to begin with then I thought about all those people's businesses ruined by these thugs and I prefer to see the police being more proactive with the use of their batons!

FFS you moan when they do nothing, you moan when they dish out a bit of discipline. Kids need to know the police aren't content to sit there and do nothing.

The lads were riding round in a group with hoodies on, in an area that obviously was having trouble.

Is that actually illegal, cos like I do that sometimes, and I was not aware it was against the Law...

engaged their brain cells

The sound you can hear in the background is the helicopter overhead, which had been hovering around the area for about 10 minutes, tracking them with its spotlight.

To make an arrest would involve taking police off the streets back to the station to do all the processing and paperwork. Where would you rather they were deployed?

That's not discipline though, that's a hard beating (the sort that, if you delivered it to your kid, would have you arrested for child abuse)...

of course, we don't know if those kids were involved in the looting or not, did they have any swag on them? Had a helicopter traced their movements from a hot spot to that point? If they had been involved, then I'd be tempted to say fair play (though the kicking and baton strikes looked to be way OTT), but if they weren't arrested and were allowed to go on their way, well, what does that say??

I would prefer to see some "discipline" being handed out to people who were looting, rather than small boys riding their bikes down an otherwise deserted street.

Just saying, like...

They could have been identified previously by cctv and followed by cctv. police have radios, and could have been directed to them.

Notice how one wasn't apprehended and let on his way.

They may have been arrested, but you cant see them behind the wall. usually that wold be the ideal place to put someone detained, as it reduces the chance of escape.

Fair play I say. Should not be out anyway, they know the risk & what is happening!

You all seem to know exactly what's going on in this little snippet. The bit where they firebomb the orphanage is missing...

If this vid puts off 50 other scrotes from joining in tonight is it worth it? (Obviously the rain will have a bigger effect).

Elfin so how woould you Police it then? The nicely nicely approach did not work at all in London.

I agree it looks shocking and is very unfortunate it has had to get to that level, but its the only level the kids will respond to.

"but if they weren't arrested and were allowed to go on their way, well, what does that say??"

It says **** off home or you will get a good hiding.

The Police are using a logical approach IMO, the yobs in London have already said they dont fear the consequences of rioting ie getting a slapped wrist and a night in the cells, so they keep rioting.

No, 'Chav Boy' may think 'if the fuzz are gonna be violent thugs, then I'll arm myself up with a knife, bat or even a petrol bomb to even the score'...

That's just a bunch of violent thugs attacking people. The fact that they are wearing uniforms changes nothing. Cowardly scum.

Yawn. Looters are just taking the pi$$ knowing they have a 99pct chance of getting away without ever being caught. They are not gun / knife / axe weilding maniacs. They need a deterrent.

I would happily see this policing strategy adopted dahn Croydon.

If this vid puts off 50 other scrotes from joining in tonight is it worth it?

Not if it means that the police are allowed to get away with breaking the Law, no.

The Law must be absolute, if it is to work. Otherwise I might as well say 'oh whell the police are breaking the Law then so can I, and come and nick your bike'.

See?

I'll say it again, just in case it was missed ('cause I think it's an important point!)

That's not discipline though, that's a hard beating (the sort that, if you delivered it to your kid, would have you arrested for child abuse)...

The Police didn't have a view of the riders and started to run to the junction to engage, so obviously in contact with other officers. This supports the description saying helicopters that can be heard overhead had been tracking them.

If they are just a mob then why do they speak to the other cyclist pushing his bike and then let him go on his way??

Obviously more to what is shown in that clip. Short clips can easily be taken out of context.

Do you reckon if we all turn up to Rivi barn on sat dressed as hoodies, we might get the police chasing us?

What we don't need is limp wristed do-gooders trying to point fingers at the cops and as a result, the police even more reluctant to dish out a bit of justice 😛

druidh - do you really think that is appropriate? To beat a bloke to the ground, give him a few kicks on the ground then walk off? Yes of course use force if required but there is no justification whatsoever for that. The bloke that gets beaten is not running away or resisting. He has stopped when the cop runs up and hits him

HJe is clearly not detained either as the cops just walk away from him

So, just hypothetically obviously, all you guys calling for more "Fed action" would be more than happy to have your tax returns forensically investigated then?

Rich - It was pitch black so therefore late evening at least. The lads were riding round in a group with hoodies on, in an area that obviously was having trouble. They should have been at home tucked up in bed, or at least engaged their brain cells and stayed away from an area where trouble was kicking off.

So are we now saying, that the Police can distribute corporal punishment on children out past a Government defined bedtime?

If they were committing a crime arrest them, beating the shit out of children just *because* isn't acceptable in any society.

How would you feel if your kid got batoned cycling home; just because the Police didn't like the look of him.

The riots are bad, but FFS everyone else throwing away their morals and common sense aren't going to make it any better. Teaching people might is right, is just going to escalate thing even further, and god help the copper that gets caught by a group of teenagers who have taken a beaten from the Police and decide to even the score.

I agree with above - way too heavy-handed and that is exactly why people dislike the police.

I don't think the lads on the bike were doing nothing, at 10secs you can see the last rider checking over his shoulder. The police started running to intercept them from behind a wall so couldn't see them. At 1min 20sec you can see a line of police that have come down the road the original persuers who informed the interceptors to cut them off?

The police might have been heavy handed but then again the scum that have been rioting aren't throwing roses at them either.

If the parents had common sense or responsibility they would keep their kids indoors until the tensions have passed that way stopping them from rioting or getting attacked.

Police clearly took reasonable and appropriate action to prevent a breach of the peace - and by the look of it it worked, more strength to them 😀

The police aren't arbiters of justice.
There was no reason for that beating at all. It wasn't needed to apprehend the cyclists.
Do you think the cops would have done that if they knew they were being filmed? What do you think is uppermost in their mind now- are they glad this clip is public, thinking that this will act as a deterrent to future rioting? Or are they shitting themselves, worried they'll be identified?

Rich - I would make sure my lad was at home last night if I lived in London or Manchester, or if he wasnt I would hope he would have the intelligence to stay away from the area.

If he came home saying he had been beaten knocked off his bike by the Police I would check he was ok and then ask what the f he was doing in that area!

There's no way on earth that that's heavy handed. Look again, my mum would have kicked me harder than to get me out of bed.

Anyone know the story though? the cops were running to the spot before they came into sight, and they tried to leg it which suggests something had kicked off already.

I see nothing wrong with that clip.

So kicking a prone and defenceless person in the head is reasonable and appropriate by the Police?

but then again the scum that have been rioting aren't throwing roses at them either.

We'll no doubt see more inspiration from Banksy out of all this.

neilsonwheels

You think its OK to beat a youth who is not running away or resisting in any way?

The police might have been heavy handed but then again the scum that have been rioting aren't throwing roses at them either.

Those lads were just riding their bikes (maybe to go home...). They weren't at any stage making any sort of threatening moves towards the police officers. Don't matter what they may or may not have done earlier; the police are obliged to adhere to the Law and use only 'reasonable force'. What happened there was well beyond 'reasonable force', it was, as Psychle quite rightly states, a 'beating'. Bang out of order. They clearly had sufficient manpower to be able to apprehend the 'suspects', and I doubt very much those lads wooduv put up a fight against a gang of heavily-tooled-up coppers.

Out of order. It's stuff like this what sparks off trouble.

Rich - I would make sure my lad was at home last night if I lived in London or Manchester, or if he wasnt I would hope he would have the intelligence to stay away from the area.

If he came home saying he had been beaten knocked off his bike by the Police I would check he was ok and then ask what the f he was doing in that area!

+1 for sensible parenting.

They were riding singlespeeds they deserved it!

Bit OTT but rather police intervened rather than stand by and watch while thet ride around taking the piss!

Some of the attitudes on this thread are mental, especially considering the evidence of child abuse.

I guess if this happened to them or their family their attitudes might be slightly different.

If he came home saying he had been beaten knocked off his bike by the Police I would check he was ok and then ask what the f he was doing in that area!

and regardless of his or her answer you would accept that it was there fault, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Even after been shown the clip above?

Not just a tinsy bit OTT

How do we know what's gone on? None of us do so lets not jump to conclusions and call it OTT unless we know the facts.

People are far too ready to critisize without knowing the full story.

To be honest the Police seem damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they take strong action against rioters then they get slammed by the press who call them heavy handed and bullies. If they take a calmer approach they get critisised for being too soft and unable to control the situation. If they stand back and observe they get flak for not responding. Honestly they can't win!

Honestly lets just let the police get on with it. Are you aware of the sort of scum they have to deal with on a daily basis? Sure they will make the odd mistake but things could be a lot worse. Just look at Syria for instance.

Zulu-Eleven - Member
Police clearly took reasonable and appropriate action to prevent a breach of the peace

You're just a wannabe, aren't you? Were you turned down by the army, police etc or something? Is that why you're so bitter and angry? Just as well if so.

What a brave little keyboard warrior you are. Gonna threaten anyone today, are you?

Out of order. It's stuff like this what sparks off trouble.

Also, its stuff like this that will warrant restriction of more of civil liberties and feed the cause for more crippling cuts.

Northernstar - you can clearly see the kid is not resisting in any way therefore there is no need for the beating.

oldgit - Member
....
Anyone know the story though? the cops were running to the spot before they came into sight, and they tried to leg it which suggests something had kicked off already.

no-one knows the full story from the video clip alone so let's stop going on about how innocent the 'children' are.

richc - Member
Some of the attitudes on this thread are mental, especially considering the evidence of child abuse.

Sorry - I couldn't quite make out their badges stating "I am 7". How do you know their age?

..anyway, i suspect they were on 29'ers which makes them look smaller 🙄

To be honest the Police seem damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they take strong action against rioters then they get slammed by the press who call them heavy handed and bullies.

I think people will support the Police 100% when they are protecting the public against rioters.

However that clip shows them beating up kids because they crossed their path, and letting them go. Rioters get arrested, victims of crime are released. Draw your own conclusions.

It looks bad at first, but it does look like they were detained behind the wall out of camera shot.

Maybe they had been seen with weapons - knives & suchlike??

Maybe the Police wanted to neutralise any threat before they got stabbed? I would if I was in their shoes.

Those lads were just riding their bikes (maybe to go home...). They weren't at any stage making any sort of threatening moves towards the police officers. Don't matter what they may or may not have done earlier; the police are obliged to adhere to the Law and use only 'reasonable force'. What happened there was well beyond 'reasonable force', it was, as Psychle quite rightly states, a 'beating'. Bang out of order. They clearly had sufficient manpower to be able to apprehend the 'suspects', and I doubt very much those lads wooduv put up a fight against a gang of heavily-tooled-up coppers.

Out of order. It's stuff like this what sparks off trouble.

Easy to say from the sidelines as usual. How much reasonable force should they have used? Do you have X-ray vision that could see through the wall? What video clip have you got that just shows them riding their bikes for 10 minutes before this video? Why do the police run to intercept them when they can't see them if they weren't told to do so over their radios? What if they had just mugged some others for those bikes just before this video?

If you get caught up in the violence please remember to tell the police officer to speak to the mob nicely rather than end it quickly whilst they use your head for football practice.

Sorry - I couldn't quite make out their badges stating "I am 7". How do you know their age?

From the NSPCC

What law defines the age of a child in the UK?

There is no single law that defines the age of a child across the UK. The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, ratified by the UK government in 1991, states that a child “means every human being below the age of eighteen years unless, under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.” (Article 1, Convention on the Rights of the Child, 1989)

I am not 100% sure they were under 18, though as we couldn't see their ID. However perhaps if they had been arrested after their beatings then their ages could be verified.

It's all a question of communication. Violence is a form of communication and the GMP spoke to rioters in language that they clearly understood.

Primitive people respect primitive punishment and brute force. A simple truism that politicians and senior police officers would do well to learn.

no-one knows the full story from the video clip alone so let's stop going on about how innocent the 'children' are.

In that clip, at the time those cyclists are assaulted by police, they don't actually appear to be doing anything which could be construed as violent or aggressive; they're just riding their bikes along a road. And again, it does not in any way matter what they may or may not have done earlier; the police are only allowed, [b]by Law[/b], to use 'reasonable and appropriate force'. Do you really think kicking and beating someone who is lying on the ground is 'reasonable and appropriate'? Ok then, so if you get pulled over for speeding, you think it would be ok for the police to drag you out of your car and give you a similar beating then?

You can clearly see the kid is not resisting before or after he gets beaten. Nothing else is needed to be known. That is not a reasonable use of force

Northernstar - you can clearly see the kid is not resisting in any way therefore there is no need for the beating.

I can't clearly see or hear anything from that video. Are you able to assertain what has gone on before this clip? Were these people smashing in a shop front minutes before and are now fleeing the scene? Are you able to see whether the kid has a knife in his pocket and is threatening to use it?

No you are not, therefore you or I are not really in a position to comment.

Ok then, so if you get pulled over for speeding, you think it would be ok for the police to drag you out of your car and give you a similar beating then?

Be a ****ing sight more effective than three points and a sixty quid fine!

However that clip shows them beating up kids because they crossed their path, and letting them go. Rioters get arrested, victims of crime are released. Draw your own conclusions.

"[S]However[/s] MY INTERPRETATION IS that clip shows them beating up kids because they crossed their path, and letting them go. Rioters get arrested, victims of crime are released. BUT I COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG. Draw your own conclusions. IF I WAS ACTUALLY THERE OR HAD SEEN THE SEQUENCE FROM START TO END I WOULD COME UP WITH A MORE ACCURATE CONCLUSION"

I'm quite happy to watch some chavs get beaten by the police:)

Does the vid show what went on before that promoted the people to be chased by the Police? No.
Is the zoom of the video good enough that you can see clearly whether or not the people are resisting arrest? No.
Is the quality good enough to see whether the people being stopped had an weapons (knives etc.) that they may use against the police? No.
Do we know what went on after the video stopped? No.

So, can anyone make a judgement as to whether it is right or wrong on the evidence? No.

If those being stopped had been seen rioting/looting and if they were threatening the police, perhaps with weapons then I see no issue with the way the police conducted themselves.

On the other hand, if they were just riding home and had done nothing before then then perhaps the Police were a little strong.

Northernstar - what happened earlier is irrelevant. Even if the kid claimed to have a knife to keep beating him on the ground is uneeded and anyway they just leave him alone after the beating. watch it again you clown

TBH I can't tell if they are defenceless from that, and there's no way I'd call that being kicked in the head.

Couple of things, don't go out in a gang during riots, don't leg it from the police and what are battons for.
In any other circumstances that might be heavy handed, but that's the force bit. In this case I think it'll serve as a warning, like a note to pass on.
I mean this has been going on since Saturday, pretty safe to say that gangs out at night are out for trouble.
No harm done, just got a tickle and sent on their way.

TandemJeremy - Member
You can clearly see the kid is not resisting before or after he gets beaten. Nothing else is needed to be known. That is not a reasonable use of force

It is, if they had reason to suspect that the kids on bikes had weapons on them.

Northern Star if he was doing that, why didn't they arrest him?

Also it doesn't matter, what he was doing earlier. Once someone has been subdued you aren't allowed to beat the shit of them for any reason.

Or are you seriously saying that you would be OK with the Police beating subdued/handcuffed people?

Elfinsafety - Member

Zulu-Eleven - Member

What a brave little keyboard warrior you are

Oh, the irony... 🙄

Beating?

the only reason the police, or anyone for that matter, can use to justify their use of force is if they are under threat, and then that force has to be reasonable and propotionate.
you'd have to be on crack to suggest that what? 8 coppers, in body armour, helmeted and carrying sheilds and batons, were in some way at risk in confronting 2 youths?
if they've commited crime, then arrest, and seek conviction. if you don't have the evidence to do that, forget about it, and go and do something more productive.
there's no justification for it. at all. the police's job is an exceedingly difficult one and i do not envy them it, but only in a police state is the police's job easy.

You can clearly see the kid is not resisting before or after he gets beaten. Nothing else is needed to be known. That is not a reasonable use of force

Sigh.

Unless you were there you do not know the rest of the situation, the police are dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

I really feel for them, I don't however feel much sympathy for those lads, what were they doing cycling round there at night anyway? To my mind if you are going to put yourself in the fray then expect to suffer the concequences.

It wasnt like the police called at their house, dragged them out and beat them!

Maybe you can go round with a clipboard telling each copper in a given circumstanc ehow much force they can use TJ... 🙄

Are you able to assertain what has gone on before this clip?

Oh sweet jumping Jehosephat.... 🙄

Again, because we have some really Hard of Thinking in here today:

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE DONE PREVIOUSLY. THE POLICE ARE ONLY ALLOWED [b]BY LAW[/b] TO USE 'REASONABLE AND APPROPRIATE 'FORCE WHEN APPREHENDING A SUSPECT OF A CRIME.

Right. Got it yet?

all this argueing over whether it's reasonable or not is irrelevant when you take into account the poor quality of the video and the inability for me to make out their numbers or faces to identify them should any of the 'innocent' people choose to press charges against them!

It was but a little clip 'round the ear

No they're not Elfin - they're allowed to use [b]whatever force is necessary[/b] to maintain the Queens peace

You're of course wrong as usual Labby, but don't let that stop you...

Oh, the irony...

No, we did that earlier on mate. 😆

Chill out Elfin mate! Sheesh!

Watched it a couple of times now. It doesn't look excessive to me. Firm and fast. They quickly and effectivly restrained the culprits.

Why are you assuming them to be children? just because they're on bikes doesn't mean your a child does it?