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I've got a bit of an issue with my manager and was wondering how people here might go about dealing with this.
Without going into too much detail our company had a bit of a restructure this year which ended up with a new manager for our team, who is also responsible for my line management, after quite a few people decided to take this as an opportunity to leave. In general I get on with my new manager as well as you might expect, though recently I have started to notice signs that he isn't coping too well with everything he needs to deal with in his new position (this is entirely speculation on my part, I've not brought this up with him directly).
During one of our recent catch up meetings my manager said something fairly inappropriate when discussing something sensitive (I believe one of the many legally protected characteristics as far as employment law is concerned) which has caused me to have significant questions on how he views me and anything I communicate to him at work. I tried to flag this up, via email, in a suitably neutral way last week but have had no indication from him at all that he has received this or is going to do anything about it.
I've been line managing people at work for quite a few years now, so I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the responsibilities that this comes with, and would never dream of behaving like this for anyone who reports to me.
I expect my next step is to send another email requesting a response to the original but wanted to check here to see if people feel a week is a reasonable amount of time to wait before chasing something like this. Even getting him to acknowledge that he has received the email, and will address it at some point, would feel like a positive step forward.
The second point I'm unsure on is at what point to get the HR team involved with this. Given the nature of the complaint I'm inclined to copy them in on the chasing email but worry that this is going to cause an irreconcilable rift between me an my line manager and may well herald the start of a painful process of me needing to leave the company (as I can't see any situation where we wouldn't still need to work together even if the company can find some way to move me to another line manger).
So, has anyone been in a similar situation before? If so how did it work out?
Otherwise how long would people here wait before chasing and when would you bring the HR team into the mix?
That's not an easy thing to answer.
For me, a week for something that has a [serious] HR or legal impact would probably be too long for me for me to wait for a response and silence could be either their way of hoping it will go away, or that they are buried with other work and (maybe) lack the experience to register this.
Maybe worth a face to face talk? That would be off the record and private and you can always escalate to HR after that if they refuse, ignore or avoid.
It's difficult to understand what exactly you are expecting. An apology? Clarification of what was said?
My instinct is to get on the front foot with this sort of thing using the appropriate official processes. Do you have a counter signing officer (bosses boss) or a peer of theirs that you would feel comfortable discussing it with without going to hr?
However you proceed, keep notes and work with the official processes.
Edit - calling it out face to face is also a good idea. Nuance and tone can invariable be lost in an email (or the ironing)!
Impossible to say without knowing what it is.
I wouldn't have written anything to them in the first instance, you are immediately on record and they will respond accordingly. Plus that may have already caused an issue. I'd have waited until the next time you were together on a 121 basis and, in a nice way, enquire about what they said and why they said it.
The response would then lead you to choosing your next course of action.
Could it be anything from ignorance to maliciousness? If so, dependent on what you know about them and their history, I would ask them for their thoughts on the matter next time you are face to face with them rather than escalating via email.
Edit: What they all said ^
During one of our recent catch up meetings my manager said something fairly inappropriate when discussing something sensitive
Sorry, clarify: To you directly about you? Or about some-one in your team? Indirectly? a passing remark/attempt at humour or clearly and definitively malicious?
Talk to them
Tell them you are uncomfortable with what they said. If they do it again you will be compelled to report it.
As above, talk. As soon as anything is written down it becomes formal and that can blow something way out of proportion, kick in processes and have long lasting effects which you can't then stop, both for you and for them. If talking doesn't work, then look to talking to HR.
To clarify; this was something said to me about me. I disclosed some sensitive information about myself and my manager's immediate response was to dismiss this ("no you're not") and then try and further diminish it. This makes me strongly question whether he will ever trust anything I say, or take any information I present to him at face value, which has a fairly large impact on my ability to my job effectively and my image within the wider team.
Based on the above I'm tending towards chasing now via email (just in case I need to be able to prove anything further down the line) but leaving HR out of this as long as possible.
So in a face to face convo, your manager said something you found uncomfortable and/or unprofessional and you thought that rather than raise it there and then, you'd raise it via email later?
This sort of action is behind far to much of the workplace conflict I have to unpick with people. At the earliest opportunity follow this up with a face to face chat, be clear and objective in your choice of language, avoid emotive statements and threats, implied or otherwise.
You want to give them an opportunity to apologise, if one isn't forthcoming or there is a repeat of said behaviour then by all means have a chat with your HR Manager or BP.
I can fire you a feedback model example that can help with this framing this sort of thing, your choice. But nip it in the bud and quickly.
EDIT: I've just seen your edit, you need to follow this up face to face. Email is not the way to go, the intent vs impact is unimaginably skewed and doubtful it will land in the way you'd hope.
As a manager and leader, conflict and challenging conversations are something you need to have when they raise their head, not dodge it with an email.
Get in there and face it down, if they double down or are unsatisfactorily unrepentant then you know what's next.
If it was me...
Face to face with manager - can you confirm you received my email and let me know when you anticipate responding; a week should have been sufficient time so I'm looking for a full response by xxx date and the opportunity to discuss further with you.
I would prefer a response by email as this ensures there is a documentary record.
To date, I have not involved HR so this is between the two of us at present.
Do your comments represent company policy?
However you choose to act, never lose sight of the fact that HR are there to protect the employer's interests - not the employee.
Curious. Still none the wiser after your clarification. If it's about you and they expressed an opinion which you disagree with, then tell him that you disagree and why you think he's wrong. Your manager might disagree that whatever it is you're talking about affects your ability to do your job, in that case you need to demonstrate the opposite. Then it's your manager's job to make a decision which ultimately you'll probably have to accept. If you can't accept it then probably time to ask yourself if you want to carry on working there.
Agree with @r_m the best way to deal with these sorts of things between you and those around you is directly at the time; professionally and with curtesy.
Now;
Arrange a meeting, tell him what it's about and explain to him the hurt and distrust that he's caused you, allow him to either apologise and re-assure you, or if he doesn't or can't, off to HR.
So in a face to face convo, your manager said something you found uncomfortable and/or unprofessional and you thought that rather than raise it there and then, you’d raise it via email later?
This sort of action is behind far to much of the workplace conflict I have to unpick with people. At the earliest opportunity follow this up with a face to face chat, be clear and objective in your choice of language, avoid emotive statements and threats, implied or otherwise.
This assumes the people involved are neurotypical and process and communicate in the "normal" manner. That very much isn't the case here.
This assumes the people involved are neurotypical and process and communicate in the “normal” manner. That very much isn’t the case here.
It's not normal or abnormal, when communicating around challenging or emotive subjects, especially ones that are likely to have a high-risk of negative outcome, do them face to face in the first instance, with the delay and email you've laid the groundwork for a degree of emotional loading to be present.
You've asked for responses, you've got them. Hate to say it, but you need to sack it up and have the convo, you keep body-swerving it, well don't be surprised when it doesn't end well.
I work with plenty of neuro-divergent leaders who bite the bullet and lean into their discomfort. If you can't do it, then maybe leadership isn't for you.
Unless it was something seriously seriously unprofessional I would just let it go, I can't think of many things that could be said to me that would cause me to make a formal complaint. I've been in situations where I've senior people shouting and ranting, saying vastly inappropriate stuff. In fact the more senior they were, the more it appeared they could say what they want. The worst I had was a manager who shut me down at any and every opportunity when with clients, that was way worse than someone having a bit of a shout 121.
What do you want from the guy? Will a sorry make it all better?
In my view work is not really for discussing personal issues unless you absolutely have to and you need to agree reasonable adjustments. None of them are your mates, they don't care, they have their own problems, worries and concerns.
You’ve asked for responses, you’ve got them. Hate to say it, but you need to sack it up and have the convo, you keep body-swerving it, well don’t be surprised when it doesn’t end well.
I work with plenty of neuro-divergent leaders who bite the bullet and lean into their discomfort. If you can’t do it, then maybe leadership isn’t for you.
Are you bigginge's manager?
Seriously, some self awareness wouldn't go amiss.
Good advice re face to face conversation
I would add that HR are there to protect the company not the employee - whether they see you or your manager as the "easier problem" to fix will depend on lots of variables...
Seriously, some self awareness wouldn’t go amiss.
About what? normal or neuro-divergent, if you want the responsibility of being a manager (and OP has indicated that he's been in that role) then these are the sorts of conversations and situations that are part and parcel of that role, and like it as not theses sort of work place conflicts are best resolved politely and firmly in person.
About what? normal or neuro-divergent, if you want the responsibility of being a manager
This issue is about how the OP's manager manages him. Not how he manages others. Different dynamic, different rules. Sure we all have a responsibility to deal with things professionaly, but let's not start victim blaming the op.
This issue is about how the OP’s manager manages him. Not how he manages others. Different dynamic, different rules. Sure we all have a responsibility to deal with things professionaly, but let’s not start victim blaming the op.
You cannot possible control what that manager chooses to do, but what you can do is influence the outcome and/or their behaviour by asserting boundaries in the most appropriate way.
A manager is always managing, up, down and sideways. Two sub-optimal managers don't make a good one. There is only one person the OP has any control over and right now they're choosing the easy way.
If they don't want to have the convo, then they should make a formal complaint and let others do it for them and just cut to the chase.
As for the victim-blaming comment, I guess that's one way to absolve an individual of agency and enable their avoidance of responsibility and the positive role-modelling of behaviours as a leader.
There is only one person the OP has any control over and right now they’re choosing the easy way.
Or the only way they feel they can or are comfortable with.
If they don’t want to have the convo, then they should make a formal complaint and let others do it for them and just cut to the chase.
That's actually quite constructive.
As for the victim-blaming comment, I guess that’s one way to absolve an individual of agency and enable their avoidance of responsibility and the positive role-modelling of behaviours as a leader.
You were kicking him while he was down.
If they don’t want to have the convo, then they should make a formal complaint and let others do it for them and just cut to the chase.
It may not have been clear from my original, or follow up posts, but the main thing I was requesting in the original email I sent was a chance to get back together and discuss the issue. It was sent via email so that there was a paper-trail there for future use on the off chance things started rapidly going downhill.
It was the subsequent fact that I've been ignored for a week that made me start wondering what the next reasonable steps are.
Counter to the above points,
1) I'd just have let it slide / simmer in resentment, so good for you for actually doing anything at all.
2) You've put it in writing, if they don't respond then if anything happens down to the line where you feel you're treated unfairly in a review, redundancy, disciplinary actions, etc. You now have an ace* up your sleeve. They had an opportunity to explain what they meant and/or apologize (or even deny it ever happened).
*Ass Covering E-mail
I’ve been line managing people at work for quite a few years now, so I’m not entirely unfamiliar with the responsibilities that this comes with, and would never dream of behaving like this for anyone who reports to me.
Back to the OP and this jumped out. Obviously we don't know exactly what the questionable behaviour was but I'd say people have different styles of management and different things going on which impact what they do and how they behave. Is it reasonable to expect your manager to behave in the same way as you would?
I've not read all of the responses, so apologies if any of this is a repeat.
I'd suggest adopting one of the accepted models for constructive negative feedback - one I was taught was "SBIR" - Situation, Behaviour Impact, Response" - it's actually being recapped in a management training course at work. We are actively encouraged to deal with the type of situation you describe in your OP - if it's just left then things don't ever improve and often issues get worse.
Some info here (plus plenty more if you google it)
https://www.mindtools.com/ay86376/the-situation-behavior-impact-feedback-tool
Basically - the idea is to actively plan the conversation so you're prepared and don't go off track / bottle out of the negative piece / get emotional and over-do it etc. Also it helps to fully consider the others potential point of view beforehand, to encourage empathetic listening.