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With a bit of time on my hands I've taken the plunge and made some pizza dough (Paul Hollywood's recipe).
It's looking as though I've added too much water. Will the dough be hard to shape and stretch once proved? It was tricky to knead.
Also will it cook properly?
As someone who likes baking but is not a particularly good cook, it's knocked my confidence.
how much water did you use, and how much flour? how long have you proved it for?
Semolina makes a big difference.
It’s looking as though I’ve added too much water
Add more flour.
It should improve vastly once proved (assuming you haven't used way too much water). You should use plenty of flour (coarse semolina if you can) when stretching / rolling it out.
Next tip:
Do not add too much topping - it's so tempting to do it but it won't improve the flavour and it will just make it harder to cook it properly.
Put the dough in the fridge for at least half an hour before shaping, makes a big difference.
I made this the other week using the same day pizza dough recipe from flour water salt yeast and a regular oven turned right up - not as good as a proper pizza oven but still tasted great.
What hydration are you working with and what flour did you use? from memory the Hollywood one is about 64% but then adds olive oil.
Working above 60% hydration can feel like you are constantly being glued to the dough, but the higher hydration will give a better lighter crust. just takes a bit of getting used to.
I work at 65-70% hydration but using a high protein level flour on a long room temp prove, then ball up 2-6hrs before the cook (dependent on room temp) - it will feel quite delicate early on and extremely sticky - the higher hydration dough can feel like its sticking to everything. If you use a silicone tool to get it onto the work bench and then use 'quick hands' during the balling up - keep your hands moving and use your fingers rather than your palms - I need until the dough goes smooth and check to see how its doing with a window pane test.
As others have said - it will look better after the bulk prove - you will have to watch this depending on where you are as proving time is really impacted by room temp and my pizzas in the summer can be a lot quicker than in the winter. You will see when its ready with the bounce test (just google a vid on that). Then ball up
You can work some more flour in during the bulk rise or at balling up - just dont do too much or you will start to impact the hydration levels. It will look much wetter than a normal dough.
Hope that helps.
I find all of Paul Hollywood's recipes a bit too generous with the water, probably depends on the flour you use though.
I found proving pizza dough all day in the fridge helps a lot with shaping.
You might get away with the sticky dough if you use enough flour/semolina when you're working it.
Give this a go, it's shamelessly stolen from @trail_rat and it works a treat every time. Get used to it, how it feels, then experiment if you wish...
i do a kilo of sifted 00 flour (find it helps make the dough lighter)
20 grams salt
good glug of olive oil
in a seperate jug i do 400ml tap water 200ml of boiling water
add 5 grams of dried yeast to that or 14grams of fresh in easier times….. give in a couple of minutes
mix the whole lot together
tip onto lightly flowered surface and knead for 10 minutes
Chuck in the bowl , leave covered for an hour – chuck in in the fridge over night
take it out in the morning , at lunch time knock it back and divvy it up into 8 dough balls – i think technically it should be 10 but i like a good chunky light inside but crunchy crust on a thin base –
i leave the doughballs to be used to prove covered on a baking tray till cooking time – those that are not being used get clingfilmed and frozen till required.
for shaping i just hold it vertically thumbs in the centre and push out wards till i have the crust formed and then a combo of thumbs and gravity do the rest.
chuck it on the peel and top it before throwing it in the preheated oven on the hottest setting.
turn it a few times in the oven and then after about 60-90 seconds we are done.
Pizza Pilgrims - Frying pan pizza
This is the best recipe/method for pizza I've found.
Leave to prove for a minimum of 8hrs or just make it the day before and popit in the fridge.
Cooking-wise, get the grill up as hot as it will go and put a frying pan over a high heat on the hob.
Stretch out the dough as per their guide (don't use a rolling pin), stick it in the pan without any toppings, then add the sauce plus whatever else you want on it - agree with the other comments, less is more.
Let it cook on the bob for a few mins, you can lift it up slightly to check how the base is doing.
Then when that's good, put it under the grill as close as possible to the top.
Leave there for a few mins again until cooked to your preference.
Glad it's working for you. That's the basic ooni recipe
Iv been experimenting with higher hydration levels.
Still needs a long proove but as above gives an even lighter dough.
The long proove gives it a deep flavour.
This works really well for me if you have some sourdough starterkicking about.
https://foodgeek.dk/en/sourdough-pizza-recipe/
The final fridge proving overnight really makes a difference, as does high protein pizza flour. I use Caputo Cuoco from adimaria
Oooh thanks.
I used oil and strong white flour. The Mary Berry recipe didn't have oil, but gave a precise water measurement, but I went with Paul Hollywood as he's a bread person, Mary more a cake person imo.
It needs proving for a longer period from what you're all saying. However we'll be eating it tonight.
there was a thread on here the other day (think it was a sourdough thread about sticky dough), im sure that was a paul hollywood recipe too, waaaay too much water for my liking (375g to 500g flour i think). 300g water to 500g flour is about right to me, change the amounts to suit but keep same ratio.
Can’t help except for saying I followed the Jamie Oliver method to the letter and it worked out very well indeed.
And, add the basil leaves AFTER cooking* 🧐
(*chiffonade leaves if you want to spread the flavour around)
@grum I've watched quite a few of the FoodGeek sourdough videos on YouTube. Once you get past his slightly strange manner, and realise he's just very dry, they're really useful. However, coincidentally, I watched the sourdough pizza one today, and he puts pineapple on one, hence I've lost all respect for him.
The result was quite good, much better than even a quality shop bought.
Maybe less water next time, much longer proving time (only 5 hours) and a little longer in the oven.
On the yeast packet it says to mix with water first would this improve the dough (which I didn't do as water was being added to the mix)?
Some instant yeast needs activating before use, usually by adding it to water with a teaspoon of sugar. It should start frothing and forming bubbles.
Yes to activating yeast.
https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/bread-recipes/pizza-dough/
In a jug, mix the yeast, sugar and oil into 650ml of lukewarm water and leave for a few minutes, then pour into the well.
No (IMO) to longer proving time. Try (super-easy) recipe above, see what you think? Or this one with 45 min proving:
https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/bread-recipes/basic-pizza/
Try Italian style flour? Quality/premium tinned toms also make a big difference in taste.
(C-19 shopping advice - some wholefood suppliers do free delivery over £xx spent, so worth doing a big ‘bulk essentials’ shop in one)
ie
Maybe less water next time, much longer proving time (only 5 hours) and a little longer in the oven.
water needs to be added frugally, try to use as little as you can get away with. I prove overnight in the fridge, and whack the oven as hot as it will go, and preheat for at least a half hour. If you're going to do more pizzas, consider a pizza stone they really do make a difference.
On the yeast packet it says to mix with water first would this improve the dough (which I didn’t do as water was being added to the mix)?
Yes, always premix with some sugar, and a couple of table-spoons of warm water. You shouldn't need to, but you can see straight away whether it's going to work or not, and then you're not wasting your time on a mix that'll never rise.
this is a really good recipe
No (IMO) to longer proving time
Long, fridge prove makes a huge difference to the taste, I'd liken in to the difference between seasoning your food and not.
^ I’ll definitely defer to more knowledge. As an amateur I tended to go for quick and easy (ie 4-5 rise/hours on a hot day) but have never tried overnight etc
Tasted great mind! Would definitely like to experiment more.
Download Pizzapp onto your phone, excellent tool to give you the right balance of flour, water, yeast and salt. No need for anything else. I just use this and haven't looked at a recipe in a long time.
I usually mix for 10 minutes in a Kenwood Chef, leave for an hour on the countertop then in the fridge for 72 hours - you can either ball at this stage and place in separate containers in the fridge or leave bulk and ball when it comes out.
Bring it out of the fridge 4 hours or so before cooking. I usually make a massive batch and freeze the dough balls at this stage then take them out the night before cooking to defrost in the fridge then on the countertop for 4 hours before cooking.
I use a pizza oven but have had good results on a pizza stone in the normal oven - heat it at full temp for an hour before. I have heard good things about the frying pan hob/grill method too.
I use 00 pizza flour usually on whatever bulk offers are available in Booker and share with a friend. IMHO decent flour and the long cold proof time are the key to airy and great tasting crusts - the Pizza oven helps too but normal ovens can still be great. Oh, and hand stretch, always, don't roll it out, if you do you'll lose all of that lovely air that has formed, watch some online videos, it's not that hard and can be fun. Don't worry if the end results are not pefectly round it will always taste better than shop bought!
After reading all of this going to get some dough out of the freezer later for pizza tomorrow!
Try Italian style flour? Quality/premium tinned toms also make a big difference in taste.
Both of these. I now use Pivetti flour and Ciro plum tomatoes for our weekly family pizza night and the difference is amazing.
My new favourite pizza:
Homemade pizza base (stretched on semolina flour)
Homemade tomato sauce
Small covering of mozzarella
Flaked tuna
Spring onions
Parmesan shavings
Halfway through, pull topping away from the centre of the pizza slightly and crack a room temperature egg over it.
Fish and eggs? I bet the wife canny resist you after that! 🙂
San Marzano tomatoes FTW, believe the hype! Can just scrunch them with your hands and put straight on the pizza if you CBA cooking a tomato sauce.
If not them then get whole plum tomatoes not ready chopped.
Great advice everyone - thank you.
I did hand stretch it and proved for the last hour in the fridge.
Understand now about the yeast. It's given me confidence to have another go.
We've got some lovely plum tomatoes in the greenhouse, just needing the sun to ripen them and all will be well.
Also I popped some garlic on the top last night. Yum.
Is it just me that thinks garlic has no place on a pizza (unless its just a simple garlic bread)?
Probably.
Aye, it's just you.
1Kg of dough made just now it’s going to sit overnight in a cool room, then separated into ball for tomorrow’s pizza party. Ooni recipe as really do find it very good.
Enjoy it Drac, mine all went to pot last weekend and we couldn't stretch them without tearing, hopefully the next batch will be better.
Cheers. I’ve been making them a few years now so well rehearsed but I’ve still had the flour fail, it was poor flour the last time.
Tomato topping for the pizza for those that want something with some more oomph. I bulk make this and freeze in single pizza portions.
Ingredients:
one onion
3 tablespoons olive oil
1/2 clove of garlic
1 400g tin of chopped tomatoes
1 teaspoon oregano
a couple of leaves of fresh basil
1/4 teaspoon of salt
a pinch of freshly ground pepper
Method:
Chop the onion and the garlic, fry in the olive oil, add the tomatoes and the spices. Let simmer for half an hour to reduce the moisture, take a blender to it and then let it cool down.
I did a Gorgonzola and fig topping recently that used a caramelised onion base covering the recipe is on BBC Good Food here https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/rye-pizza-figs-fennel-gorgonzola-hazelnuts
Needs more garlic for me.
I need to make some base sauce for tomorrow.
Best tin of plum toms you can find, handful of basil, crushed garlic, salt and pepper, blitz and spoon onto pizza.
No need to cook, it cooks on the pizza.
Another 6 hours to go already looking good.
Too much moisture in the sauce if you don't have access to a wood-fired oven nobeer. The sauce is the same consistency as puree when it's done no soggy top on the pizza base.
@Drac that's set up for garlic averse Mrs Sandwich. If it were for me I'd start with 2 big cloves and see how it turned out.
cant find it now but hasnt someone put a recipe for making pizza dough in less than an hour, or did i imagine it? just thinking of a late notice jobbie for tea tonight.
possible, or wouldnt it be stretchy enough and just tear?
thanks
Sandwich - thanks for the topping recipe. It's more or less what we like.
Too much moisture in the sauce if you don’t have access to a wood-fired oven nobeer. The sauce is the same consistency as puree when it’s done no soggy top on the pizza base.
Nope, not soggy on pizza in either wood fired Weber or our oven, and sure it'll be fine when the Koda16 comes.
I make mine in the morning and just stick it in the conservatory for 8-36h covered in clingfilm in the Kenwood mixer bowl. knock it back a few times and add flour if needed. Works well for me, but you need as high a protein flour as possible 14% or so.
Best results: Outdoor clay oven and homemade pizza dough, minimum ingredients (I prefer oven roasted tomatoes and fresh basil on top of mozarella). Garlic is a definite plus.
Cooking at home with a regular oven: Homemade pizza dough (sourdough culture) shape it and whack it in the oven at full blast for 10 mins. Then tomato and cheese and ingredients. Another 10 mins at full blast 200C more or less.
cant find it now but hasnt someone put a recipe for making pizza dough in less than an hour, or did i imagine it? just thinking of a late notice jobbie for tea tonight.
possible, or wouldnt it be stretchy enough and just tear?
well i gambled and can confirm they were probably amongst the best ive made. mixed the dough, left it for an hour or so, split into two balls, left another hour, cooked em. bluddy lovely. shaped easily, didnt droop when held up, firm, crunchy, chewy base with just the odd burnt bit on the rim, cant see how they could have been any better.
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Another question:
The yeast I was using needs to be popped into warm water and a little bit of sugar. My friend needs to know that if she uses this yeast for bread making, does she still add the same amount of water to the dough mix, or less, because the yeast is not dry (I bought her the yeast, as we can no longer get the dry) but wet?
Hope that made sense.
Anyone got any good gluten free recipes.....