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Apparently our enlightened government has decided to not go ahead with a ban on conversion therapy
Now firstly, I had assumed that such practices had long been relegated to history, something society had seen fit to get rid of sometime in the 50s..apparently not
And secondly..wtaf? How is this kind of thing even considered acceptable in this day and age?
I know it’s the tories, but even still..
I know. It feels mad on the surface that this has to be a thing, let alone that that thing is now not apparently going to happen. Sounds like Mike Freer (equalities minister) is likely to resign over the lack of ban.
My only reservation, which I only have after listening to a radio 4 programme on it a month or three back, is that there was concern amongst counsellors working with those considering transgender changes that their work might have got swept up with the ban under the proposed wording. And that they feared the consequences of this due to the significantly vulnerable condition of many of those that they see if that happened.
And the reason they’re doing it is because it’s popular with voters to be anti-gay. Aren’t you proud to be British?
Not really up to speed on this, but in the UK are they actually that widespread or coercive, or a bit like homeopathy.
Always found this conversion thing weird, i can see the US and their widespread faith based nonsense seeing these 'conversions' as a way back into the community for those who are put through it, as well as their families, but it's just weird, does the UK have that level of this nonsense?
They need more culture war distractions, it is just another misdirection to add to the chaos.
WTF, can someone explain what's going on..... ?
can someone explain what’s going on
When a man loves another man, then god gets angry and floods Devon.....
Or the Conservatives > I'm missing something from the News ?
I’m not familiar with this at all. The 2017 National LGBT survey has this;
Conversion therapy
5% of respondents had been offered so called ‘conversion’ or ‘reparative’ therapy (but did not take it up) and a further 2% had undergone it. We did not provide a definition of conversion therapy in the survey, but it can range from pseudo-psychological treatments to,
in extreme cases, surgical interventions and ‘corrective’ rape. These figures were higher for trans respondents (e.g. 9% of trans men been offered it and 4% had undergone it). Faith organisations were by far
the most likely group to have conducted conversion therapy (51% of those who received it had it conducted by faith groups), followed by healthcare professionals (19% of those who received it had it conducted by healthcare professionals).
Sample size 108,000.
What's going on:
Lying bastard tories being lying bastard tories.
Although it'll probably help prop up their vote before May elections- I hope it backfires but I'm not holding out much hope.
Honestly, I've never felt more secure being a bisexual man than at any other time in this country. The freak shows that are 'conversion therapy' are so far out of my 'give a s**t abouts' as to be almost a joke.
The very idea of it is so ludicrous that it just doesn't need banning. Besides to do so would be problematic from a civil liberties and freedoms of speech perspective. Banning it is purely ideological, like banning fox hunting.
I’m not familiar with this at all. The 2017 National LGBT survey has this;
/blockquote>
That is mental numbers, honestly never heard of this stuff outside the US documentaries, it's just something that i've never understood, the whole conversion thing, it's basically selling a lie and having everyone buy it and live with it for all time, just absolute misery for all.
I know it’s the tories, but even still..
The party that gave us Clause 28 - say it ain't so
something society had seen fit to get rid of sometime in the 50s
it’s basically selling a lie and having everyone buy it
My mum used to work with a young guy in the 60s who confided in her that his parents were paying to have his homosexuality therapy-ed out of him once a week. "How's it going?" she asked "Marvellously. He's more bent than I am" was the answer 🙂
The very idea of it is so ludicrous that it just doesn’t need banning. Besides to do so would be problematic from a civil liberties and freedoms of speech perspective.
Faith groups ordering someone to be f***ed heterosexual is a freedom of speech issue? Who's your church leader, Abu Hamza?
Besides to do so would be problematic from a civil liberties and freedoms of speech perspective. Banning it is purely ideological, like banning fox hunting.
No it would not. The original proposals were fairly sensible and did not seem to impinge on free speech;
Targeting talking conversion therapy committed against under 18s under any circumstance, or committed against those aged 18 or over who have not consented or due to their vulnerability are unable to do so, with a new criminal offence. Consent requirements for adults seeking out talking therapy will be robust and stringent.
Targeting physical acts conducted in the name of conversion therapy by legislating to ensure this sinister motivation for violence is considered by the judge as a potential aggravating factor upon sentencing.
As far as I’m aware fox hunting is banned because people don’t want animals ripped to pieces by dogs, which is why the vast majority of people are in favour of it.
The party that gave us Clause 28 – say it ain’t so
You literally took the words out of my mouth, fella.
Just another staging post in the culture war on the way to the inevitable referendum to bring back the death penalty
In reality, being gay and 'indiscretions' are a merciless way of tying people down by the party whips.
And the reason they’re doing it is because it’s popular with Toryvoters to be anti-gay. Aren’t you proud to be British?
So a minority of the electorate, for perspective.
Apparently our enlightened government
That says all it needs to.
The way to look at this is that this appalling government won’t do anything that might elicit a disapproving Daily Mail editorial
Alan turing is ironically featured on a £50 note.
ITN now reporting that they have U-turned on the U-turn ( well mostly ,trans conversion therapy probably excluded)
Shambles
judetheobscure
Free MemberHonestly, I’ve never felt more secure being a bisexual man than at any other time in this country. The freak shows that are ‘conversion therapy’ are so far out of my ‘give a s**t abouts’ as to be almost a joke.
There's a lot of things that don't directly affect me, that I still think we shouldn't do.
The party that gave us Clause 28 – say it ain’t so
And these guys ain't cuddly Ken Clark Tories either, they've been supping from the leaded 98RON UKIP cup and thus are even worse.
****ers.
ITN now reporting that they have U-turned on the U-turn ( well mostly ,trans conversion therapy probably excluded)
Shambles
You know its al J.K. Rowling's fault, She loves "TERFing" it up.
And seeing as she's
a) worth a Billion quid and,
b) wrote some books about Magic Eton;
Tory's will definitely listen to her spoutings over and above anybody else.
Turns out the whole thing was an inspired April Fools gag
Edited to remove the obvious. This ‘conversion’ therapy to ‘normalise’ people isn’t needed. Outlawing it would help.
I am not sure how real the problem that the law might constrain the giving of (proper) advice to people considering gender change was. As it stands, young people with gender dysphoria are not supported at all well by the system. But the question of how to deal with that has definitely got caught up in the trans rights war, which hasn't helped that either.
I guess this issue is an example of what James O'Brien calls "footballification". Which is a bit tragic considering that it involves really important things to do with peoples' lives and mental health.
Tricky one - many on here will know my son is TG. And as a young person dealing with gender dysphoria, the thing he needs is support and advice; both mental (where CAMHS have been worse than useless) but also physical / technical. In the end we've had to pay for counselling and joined a gender specific service to get this.
But I was also very keen to ensure that he / we heard both sides. Not in a confrontational way but one of my fears, certainly early on, was that a service specifically to deal with and support gender issues in (mainly) younger people would be overwhelmingly pro. I wanted him to get support and advice, not become a 'project' for a pro-TG 'campaigner'. Not only that - if you're paying for their service, if at some point you decide actually you aren't trans then a revenue stream disappears. I may be overly cynical and I'm pleased that it hasn't in our experience turned out like that.
Laws that would prevent services from presenting a balanced argument would be a very bad thing. Laws to prevent one side only being able to state a case would be good. And proper investment in funded services to so it is not overwhelmingly the preserve of the 'private' sector (whether charities, churches, businesses or whoever) would be extremely helpful, but I realise this is a minority issue and when women can't have babies safely there may be bigger fish to fry.
I'll admit, I'm reasonably well off, IDK how others can do this without ability to pay for private advice and shortly now he's 16, interventions (drugs and eventually surgery). Even being reasonably well off, with costs of fuel, inflation, my eldest starting Uni shortly, I can't balance the books and I'm going to have to draw down on my mortgage investments to fund it.
That’s a good post.
Great post theotherjonv. As much as i am full of admiration for young people tackling gender dysphoria alongside other teenage 'stuff', I am equally in awe of those supportive parents helping them get to a happy place. But yes, as with everything else in life, the inequity of doing just that with a financial buffer or not is depressingly massive.
I have worked with one of the very well known trans support groups I suspect you are referring to. Kind, knowledgeable folk that they are it was like being hit with a barrage of pro. At no point did 'balanced' appear to be in their MO and people more informed than me are/were concerned about their readiness to advocate medication very early. It almost felt like the total vacuum of other services meant that those 'with skin in the game' were the mainstay of the support groups. Hopefully (laws notwithstanding) as gender dysphoria becomes better understood by the mainstream, the counselling services will also mature too. I'm glad what your son received has been better than you feared.
Very good points from theotherjonv and convert.
I’m glad what your son received has been better than you feared.
Having reread my own post - I don't know actually if that is the case - rather that we walked away from at least one support group because I didn't feel the viewpoint was balanced.
We're now a couple of years further on and the situation has developed and we are now as certain as we can be that a full medical transition is what he wants and needs - drugs first and eventually surgery. So the need for balanced argument about whether this is the right choice is not as strong (although to be fair to the service that we are using they are being I believe open and honest about the risks/downsides of treatments, such as longer term the drugs may not be reversible and therefore may not be able to have his own children should one day he change his mind and want to)
Looks like the government have made a U Turn
BBC News - 'Conversion therapy': Ban to go-ahead but not cover trans people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60947028
Interestingly, "The Miseducation of Cameron Post" is about to start on BBC3 shortly
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6257174/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
Looks like the government have made a U Turn
What is all this U Turn business with this government? They make a (shit) announcement and in no time at all change their minds. A cynical way of demonstrating they are listening?
bit of a thread resurrection but as a couple were interested, I read this earlier and thought I'd expand on my 'CAMHS worse than useless' comment.
In my son's case the GP's are not interested in even really discussing future medical care (blockers and testosterone) plus the blood tests that would be recommended while appropriate dosage and subsequent tracking of levels is developed. First he has to be receiving counselling and deemed sufficiently well and stable (my word) to be able to not be making an emotional judgement. But without receiving appropriate support, which could take years to get through waiting lists and triage for, he isn't going to be unemotional.
So all the triage and initial appointments have been more or less around 'are you sure you know what you're asking for and not just running away from where you are? Come back when you're more comfortable in yourself and then we'll discuss it' Total catch 22, not quite conversion therapy but edging to it.
Like I said before - I want a balanced review process, and what CAHMS have been doing so far just can't do that. I'm trying not to blame them but just so understaffed they don't have the potential to deal with complex cases - or as the article suggests, even pretty serious ones.