You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Just removed one of the existing battery smoke alarms and found a plastic recessed backbox. It looks like there used to be mains supplied smoke alarms.
Does anyone know which these might have been so I can reuse the backbox?
can you post a pic of the box you have left in the ceiling?
That would help, but it's been about a decade since I successfully posted a picture on this forum.
The wife is now liking the idea of a smart smoke alarm. Then we'd know if there was a fire while we're out at work and the dog was in danger. Can't work out if the Nest Protect actually needs a Nest hub or not.
Wish I'd not started this now.
it might be that there is a dry lining UV box in the ceiling like the below?
no idea about nest stuff, I just switch things on and off the old fashioned way, im scared of technology!
Yeah, that but square.
Which suggests it's nothing specific to the detector.
Cheers
Nest doesn't need a hub btw. They connect over WiFi.
The wife is now liking the idea of a smart smoke alarm. Then we’d know if there was a fire while we’re out at work and the dog was in danger.
Nest have done their job praying on your fears. What do you think will start a fire when you are out?
Don't let the dog play with matches.........Take the standard precautions don't leave cooking on avoid using washing machine/dishwasher when out etc etc.
Well, she is in the kitchen during the day with the fridge and the freezer. (The dog, not the wife).
I never attended a fridge or freezer fire during my 29yrs. I'm sure there have been some but I really can't think of other watches attending any.
It's up to you your monet etc.. be aware nest have a lifespan of 7 yrs compared to 10 yrs for "normal" detectors. Factor that into the cost of replacing them sooner
How odd bruneep I've been to a fair few over the last lot of years, perhaps the quality of household appliances are better in your neck of the wood than in Harehills in Leeds 🙂
Check the new regulations coming in. In Scotland, required to have interlinked alarms from next year. Including a heat detector in the kitchen.
Seems Nest Protect doesn't have a separate heat detector?
better class of white goods 😉
We had one Nest downstairs. Then the upstairs detector reached end-of-life so we now have a Nest upstairs too. I like them. The "night-light" feature is really handy too. Nest does have a heat sensor.
In Scotland (England may differ) mains powered smoke alarms are a bit pointless as they need a 10 year backup battery, so you bin them after that anyway. Most (all?) the battery powered ones last 10 years on a lithium battery now.
Saying that, I still got mains powered ones as I am a landlord and didn’t want live cables from the previous alarms terminating at nothing. The choice of mains powered interlinked alarms is a bit limited though - have a look at FireAngel.
Nest does have a heat sensor.
It has a heat sensor and a smoke sensor. So if you put it in your kitchen, will set it off whenever you burn the toast. Nest say it is not recommended for use in kitchens.
Thanks all. Who knew it was such a minefield.
There was an old one on the landing and in the hall. Sort of wish I'd left them alone now.
[/i]What do you think will start a fire when you are out?[i]
Bit of a strange response? Thats a bit like asking whats going to cause a fire when you've bedded down for the night!
Electrical fault. Hob left on. Water spilled on something by the kids a few hours before. Arson/garage fire.
I like the sound of Nest especially as it acts as another sensor so it knows when you are in for heating purposes, but its too pricey for me.
How odd bruneep I’ve been to a fair few over the last lot of years,
also been to many fires started when occupants been out, and not just by carelessness (which to be fair we can all be guilty of), fair few leccy faults in the white goods.....
Bit of a strange response?
Is it? It's all about managing the potential causes of fires. If you want to get all paranoia about it be as well throwing main switch off every time you go to bed or out the front door and employ someone as a fire watch when not in just to be sure.
Bit of a strange response? Thats a bit like asking whats going to cause a fire when you’ve bedded down for the night!
Your supplementary question seems like a very sensible thing for us all to ask ourselves. In fact its an even more important question as we will be asleep and likely to be over come by smoke (assuming detectors don't work/wake us first). I was more intrigued what you would do 30 minutes away at work when your phone says the smoke detector has gone off. Is that a 999 call? I'm not sure I'd trust it enough for that...
Check the new regulations coming in. In Scotland, required to have interlinked alarms from next year. Including a heat detector in the kitchen.
Who is required? New Builds? HOMOs? presumably not every house...
Is that a 999 call?
I would. You could easily back it up with a cheap camera.
Three Nest alarms at my house, only had one “false” alarm and it was caused by a joiner using a mains powered sander on the door directly below the Nest.
There’s a spare key accessible from outside my house anyway. If I had to call 999 from a long distance I’d just give the operator the location and code to the box.
I think the biggest problem of a 999 call while you’re away from home is that it would likely connect to the wrong area. Hence I also keep my neighbours’ phone numbers saved as well.
Biggest threat is cars in garages, IMHO - my neighbour’s garage is below my house and I fitted a heat-detecting smoke alarm in there at my expense, linked to a remote sounder in both houses.
Call a key holding neighbour to get the dog out, or confirm and make the 999 call.
I read something about a small fire in London caused by a fridge-freezer...
My house is filled with the Aico range (3000 i think) - i've got one in each room (14), with 1 room having 3 in due to it's size and the garage.
they are all interlinked mains fed and have a central test centre. individually they are not expensive, but come very highly rated.
Ah the neighbour has to stay in whilst you are out then?
@jca I don't recall the F/freezer being clad in flammable material
I also have the AICO fitted my house
Jesus that photo is scary!
That being said both the brother and sister in law work for the Fire Brigade/Service. One as a firefighter and one as a back office bod. They're way more paranoid than us about turning things off at the mains when they go out.
I guess there are two reasons for it.
1) They get to see deal with and and talk about the after effects an electrical fire can have.
2) They have an increased exposure to it, so potentially perceive the risk to be higher than us. So of all the 10,000 people that go to bed each night on their patch they will go out to one fire a week. In reality it's a 1/70,000 chance that your house could have an electrical fire. But they always go to that one incident a week so they perceive the risk to be higher (I'm making the numbers up here to illustrate the point).
Reminds me must go and check our smoke alarms.
Ah the neighbour has to stay in whilst you are out then?
No, but if they are in they might want to get out. One of the other neighbours just might in, too. I think most of ours are in the WhatsApp group. But yeah, maybe all 30 of them might be out so I won't bother.
We've just had an extension and refurb in our house. We didn't really ask about alarms, the architect jsut specced them to fit with regulations
We have ended up with
Carbon monoxide and smoke in utility
Smoke and Carbon monoxide in back room (we have a wood stove)
Heat in kitchen
Smoke in hallway
Smoke and carbon monoxide in front room (another wood stove)
Smoke on landing
Smoke and carbon dioxide in main bedroom
Smoke in loft
Smoke in garage.
I think we are relatively well covered
The wife is now liking the idea of a smart smoke alarm. Then we’d know if there was a fire while we’re out at work and the dog was in danger. Can’t work out if the Nest Protect actually needs a Nest hub or not.
We've got 6 Nest smoke alarms now inc one in the workshop which managed to sync to the others over the LAN as it's out of Wifi / Zigbe range (which is pretty neat and I didn't expect it to work). No need for a hub, they just talk to your 802.11b Wifi network.
and if wifi is down due to a tripped RCD
and if wifi is down due to a tripped RCD
Split load consumer unit with multiple RCDs. Next?
Split load consumer unit with multiple RCDs. Next?
do you understand what that means ? and how it provides very little protection from the scenario above ? - unless of course you have one whole side dedicated to your nest circuit - or perhaps a whole seperate RCD box fed off the mains just for it.
Safety critical systems are one ill be keeping off the internet of things. cant be hacked if its not connected.
The Nest alarms talk to each other over a private network. If your WiFi goes off you lose the alerts on your phone, but the alarms still communicate fine.
Who is required? New Builds? HOMOs? presumably not every house
part of my current active(scotland) building warrent to have this system installed through the house
To the point where i've put a dining room on the back of the kitchen which for all intents and purposes is one room but i have to have a smoke alarm in the dining room part (as its split level building control class it as two rooms) and i have a heat detector in the kitchen.
how ever for the existing part of the house all that is required is that there is a system linked smoke alarm on each floor. We have them in each room already after bruneeps advice..... while he isnt paranoid he does actively promote fire safety.....
I like the sound of Nest especially as it acts as another sensor so it knows when you are in for heating purposes, but its too pricey for me.
They're separate products, all marketed by Google under the Nest brand name:
https://store.google.com/es/category/connected_home
The smoke detector:
https://store.google.com/product/nest_protect_2nd_gen
The Nest alarms talk to each other over a private network. If your WiFi goes off you lose the alerts on your phone, but the alarms still communicate fine.
They use Zigbee as well as Wifi, tear down here: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/nest-protect-teardown/all
I have wondered what would happen if your Wifi went off, one Nest triggerd and your neighbour also had Nests, would they be triggered by the Zigbe comms.....
New regs call for a smoke detector in hallways on each floor (check), heat detector in the kitchen (check) and a smoke detector in the most usually occupied room in the house (fail). I'll get another one wired into the loop which is easy enough.
It would be nice if the info had been distributed properly considering every household has to be compliant. I was due an inspection in March where I'd presumably have been made aware of the changes but obviously that got knocked on the head.
Glad someone mentioned grenfell after that ridiculous comment about fridge freezer fires being rare. Electrical faults are the leading root cause of loss of life due to fire. RCDs do not effectively prevent the electrical faults that lead to fire. AFFDs do address this but the technology is in its infancy
Aico detectors are excellent in terms of detection, and more cost effective when installing many traditionally interlinked units
Nest detectors are excellent in terms of detection but expensive, do offer other benefits in terms of smart home.
So go with what you fancy.
What I love about the Nest ones is that they tell you which room the smoke is in. No messing around. Pricey but when it comes time to replace I'm putting another set in as they just work
Glad someone mentioned grenfell after that ridiculous comment about fridge freezer fires being rare
After 29yrs in fire service I think I'm allowed to make that comment.
Had Grenfell not been clad in flammable material and had serious fire check faults not been there due to the "modernisation" of the block it would have been contained within that compartment. But what do I know
In my 30 years service all served in a city, I had loads of fires started by washing machines, tumble driers and other household electricals (including a dildo!) but never a fridge or freezer.
I've got mains powered smoke detectors. They spend much of their life turned off at the fuse box due to the fact that they are so sensitive, the preparation of a Greek salad will set them off. I understand the safety aspect but I don't want alarms screaming when the cat farts.*
*No I won't come running if we all burn in a fiery hell.
** No flippancy meant.
I’ve got mains powered smoke detectors. They spend much of their life turned off at the fuse box due to the fact that they are so sensitive
And the backup battery does what ?