Following an SP30 back in 2019, my much delayed day in the sun has finally arrived, ironically i now only have 6 points (soon to be 3) as the last lot dropped off last year.
What happens at these sort of things? Should i wear a tie? Should i write something down about how the world will stop if i lose my license?
Magistrates court for an sp30? I take it speed was excessive for a nip?
Have you talked to Mr LoopAsshole.:-)
Dad used to be a JP. Basically said whatever excuse you make, it always comes across to the bench as “I am self entitled and don’t think the rules should apply.”
Recommended admitting wrong and showing remorse in order to minimise fine.
Did they not offer a guilty plea via letter or would that have taken you over 12.
3 points and a big fine.
Recommended admitting wrong and showing remorse in order to minimise fine.
This definitely.
Many years ago I was caught doing a stupid speed on the motorway, dressed up in my best bib and tucker, showed lots of remorse, apologised and said how ashamed I was to be there.
Got fined and a months ban. The Clerk took me to the cash desk to pay and even he commented on how lightly I had got off. Normally much longer bans for the speed I was doing.
There was sun in your eyes and your foot slipped.. then a wasp flew in and landed on the accelerator so you had to keep stamping on it to make sure it was dead.
Im innocent your honour!
Magistrates Court for speeding, what ti expect?
Lighter treatment than you'll get here.
Tell the truth. They like honesty almost as much as they hate liars.
Recommended admitting wrong and showing remorse in order to minimise fine.
Do court / Mag know previous record before deciding penalty in these cases? Because with what used to be 9 points (assuming as 'last lot dropped off last year' and another lot about to drop off leaving 3) I'm not sure the actions will particularly back up any expressed feelings of remorse.
Which then leaves the excessive hardship to try to get it down.
Tell the truth.
I'm not sure "frankly I dgas and I do it all the time, just I got caught today" is likely to help.
When I got done a good few years ago for 99 on a motorway I did the plead guilty by post thing and my mate who is a magistrates court clerk said to me they get fed up of all the bullshit excuses so instead make them laugh. Miy plea was a limerick admitting I was an arse. result was less points and fine than I expected
so no bullshine excuses - they have heard them all and believe none. Admit wrongdoing and if you can get a laugh without being an arse then do so
Wear a suit and tie, admit your error, apologise, make no excuses like "I was the only one on the road, I wouldn't have killed anyone if my car left the road in a ball of flames" as in the judges eyes the legitimate excuses for speeding are very very limited.
Think about a statement to say of what might happen if you get banned for 6 months, re. work, job etc etc and consider getting someone professional to represent you if it is actually pretty odds on for a ban... they speak the lingo.
Don't take your car to the court unless someone else is driving you....
Admit wrongdoing and if you can get a laugh without being an arse then do so
Dangerous strategy 😀
Ages ago I ran a red light on my bike in parliament square, not a brilliant idea as the pm was leaving house of commons and all traffic was stopped. A bunch of 3 of us I think, anyway, police stopped us.i fessed up, said how sorry I was,never do it again...let me off. The other 2 started arguing with the copper and got a ticket.
Recommended admitting wrong and showing remorse in order to minimise fine.
This. Disclaimer: Mrs TiRed is a JP. They've heard every excuse. If you might lose your license, a solid dose of honesty is important too. They've heard every excuse...
The guilty contrition advice above is correct.
Many moons ago I got summonsed for well over 100 in a 70.
Possible ban.
They cannot ban you in your absence so even after a guilty reply to NIP, you will then get a summons.
I returned NIP with my licence and a letter of contrition. As I expect to be banned I do not want to waste courts time with a hearing etc, so I assume I am banned, and I promised not to drive until I hear back..
Very sorry I have carried out online rospa training, got a new copy of highway code and realise what a dick I am.
Now they cannot ban you in your absence so if they wanted to ban me they would have summonsed me anyway, but my attempt to be really good paid off.
Licence came back with 6 points and 175 fine.
I got caught for similar speed to TJ, luckily I went to court as on the day they also tried to do me for driving with no insurance. I had to get my insurance company to send over the details (again).
I knew there was no point arguing, I was in a sports car obviously being a pillick, so just accepted the fine and 4 week ban.
Didn’t expect an immediate ban, but that’s what happened.
I also got a bit of a rollicking from the JP. I just said how I was ashamed of my actions and I’d even sold the car and replaced it with a 4 seater family car.....I left out that it was an AMG merc I’d replaced the TVR with.
I didn’t wear a suit, probably chinos and a smart shirt, no tie.
As an aside, I didn’t get any points, I declared the sp30 on my insurance and it didn’t make any difference.
Just say you were overtaking a cyclist who doesn't pay road tax. You'll probably get a medal.
OP - what were your previous points for? I assume a court appearance didn't happen as if it did you would know the best procedure.
Doesn’t matter what’s dropped off since then or about to drop off, it’s all based on what you had on the day of the offence.
Did you need a shit?
Sir Alex Ferguson, the manager of Manchester United, was yesterday found not guilty of illegally driving on a motorway hard shoulder after magistrates heard he had been suffering from severe diarrhoea and was trying to get to a toilet.
In England the sentencing guidelines are all online: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/speeding-revised-2017/
English courts will try to do as much as possible via the Single Justice Procedure if you are pleading guilty - this is a desk/paper process. This can save you a trip to court unless you fall into a trap like writing something that might actually be a defence, or they want to consider disqualification. If not, there's no need for a suit, but dress respectfully (flip flops, football strips, manky boiler suits are likely to see you told to go get changed). If disqualification is likely then you can make a written undertaking not to drive till you hear the outcome of the case, this used to be strongly discouraged but is welcomed to reduce footfall in courts for covid. Keep what you write short, legible and logical - imagine facing a pile of 50 speeding cases for the morning. Avoid writing things that actually sounds worse like "not paying attention". Whilst people say not to make excuses I would say it does no harm to quickly emphasise things which are true and help confirm the absence of aggravating factors, e.g. "Whilst the traffic was light, the visibility was good and the road surface dry I completely accept this does not excuse exceeding the limit". Otherwise, you are relying on the JP finding that in the CPS info...
Different offence, the OP got done for speeding, whereas Ferguson was passing too quickly. And also undertaking.
You'll get a jolly good drubbing. My advice, if you can afford it, is to go out in a blaze of glory like Sting in Quadrophenia. What's the worst they can do? And you retain self-respect. Legend of the dock. One for the grandkids.
Tell them you’d do it again in a heartbeat and to go **** themselves. You’ll probably get a slapped wrist, laughable fine, bit of community service and a slight telling off judging by what happened to the guy who drove his car in to my house whilst drunk and banned before fleeing the scene and trying to pretend it wasn’t him.
Based on TJ's advice:
Roses are red, violets are blue,
I'm a gigantic arse,
Do what you do
Doesn’t matter what’s dropped off since then or about to drop off, it’s all based on what you had on the day of the offence.
That made me happy
Ferguson was passing too quickly
So to speak
Wear a tracksuit to blend in. If you wear a suit, you'll get hassled by other defendants who think you're the duty solicitor.
Never been but stopped one memorable time...
Do you know why I stopped you?
Yes I was driving like a ****....
Car not registered to me and a different colour.... got a producer and s bollocking
You say you now only have 6 points. It is the date of the offences that matters. If you had 9 in the three years prior to this new offence then you may find yourself in a spot of bother as you may reach the magic 12. The minimum points you can get is 3 for an endorseable offence.
As Poly says, the sentencing guidelines are all online so it is possible to work out what to expect.
The roads were dry, the weather was fine
It wasm't too bad just doing 99
Now this may seem random but I ride a tandem
So can I get off with a fine?
Limericks are just so last year:
Points tally rises.
Have not learned my lesson yet.
Just one more chance please?
Thanks all. I'll just be honest and humble and see what happens. Gonna chuck the bike in the van in case I need to ride home.
I'll report back later.
Magistrates hate cyclists even more than speeding drivers, get someone to give you a lift.
you may reach the magic 12.
Ooh! Is that when you get a complimentary alarm clock or really nice pen?
i was doing 84 in a 40 many moons ago (was a dual carriageway, so mildly less dickheadish than on a single carriageway).
But i went to court, admitted it was a moment of madness/stupidity, apologised, explained i needed my car for work, to see my daughter etc. I got a £275 fine and 56 day ban. A worthy punishment for my stupidity.
At the time i had 3 points for speeding (so clearly hadnt learnt my lesson at the time), which they took into consideration when dealing out my punishment.
Good luck and keep us in the loop!
Mine was:
The was a young man lived Edinburgh way
Who drove down to England one day
A speed camera he passed
Driving far far too fast
Now he's sorry and he's gonna have to pay
explained i needed my car for work, to see my daughter etc.
This really is one of my pet peeves. If they stopped going soft on people because they "need their car" then perhaps people who think twice in the first place. Not your case specifically V7fmp, but you hear stories of people who have played this card 10 times and gotten away with it.
We should adopt a modern version of the "sans permit" class of cars, as they have in france. get people out of their Chelsea tractors and into Citreon Ami's
explained i needed my car for work, to see my daughter etc.
Wouldn't make any difference in my judgement. You can use buses, trains, taxis, bicycles etc,.
Do people also get let off drink driving because they need to get to work in their car?
Had twp speeding tickets over 40 years, the last was for 80mph on the A1M on bone dry roads with very light traffic
Did my speed awareness course and had to correct the couple of muppets delivering it on a least two occasions as they were telling people things that were plainy incorrect- yes i am that ****
Even though i felt my speed was neither excessive or dangerous i now set the cruise control at 77mph....
@olly & @kerley - i will never know if it made the judge consider it during my case, i was just sharing what i said during my time in court. did it change my ban from more than 56 days to less, who knows? Thankfully i would like to think that a judge can tell the difference between someone trying to apologise for their own foolish actions and someone just talking garbage in an attempt to lighten the punishment.
As the old saying goes, if you cant do the time, dont do the crime. I did the crime, paid the fine and spent two months riding my bike, getting lifts etc etc.
But i went to court, admitted it was a moment of madness/stupidity, apologised, explained i needed my car for work, to see my daughter etc. I got a £275 fine and 56 day ban. A worthy punishment for my stupidity.
To quote the whole paragraph. You still got banned, you learnt your lesson.
Which is what it should be. If it doesn't inconvenience you enough it's not a punishment and you won't learn. I don't care if you need 3 hours and 4 buses to get to work, or Tarquin can't have music lessons, or granny has to get a taxi to her hospital appointment. Its meant to be a ****ing punishment.
Ended up with 6 month ban & £800 fine.
I'm lucky that it won't affect my job but it's unfortunate that my girlfriend will have to do all the driving on our trip to Cornwall in the summer.
Back on the road for Christmas.
Can't even commiserate with a pint as I'm on antibiotics.
ooooosh!
Well, we live and learn.
Enjoy the walk home?!? 😀
@MoreCashThanDash - why quote the whole thing, when you can cherry pick a part of a paragraph to really cement yourself on your moral high horse! That is the STW way! 😛
But yeah, like you say, it would be a farce if the punishment didnt fit the crime. Which i believe in my case it did and i embraced it.
Has it stopped you speeding now?
why quote the whole thing, when you can cherry pick a part of a paragraph to really cement yourself on your moral high horse! That is the STW way! 😛
Because I'm the leader of a new rebel alliance and have a strange thing about being fair to people. I can't see it catching on though.
OP - ouch. I'm taking that as a reminder to be more careful when I next drive.
So how fast were you going mos! 😬
Not your case specifically V7fmp, but you hear stories of people who have played this card 10 times and gotten away with it.
You hear stories! But can you bring actual people who have pulled that line off 10 times in a court? I very much doubt it. You can try that argument the first time to stop a very high speeding being an immediate ban. If you then get another 6 points in 3 years you'll become a "totter" at which point you can try the same argument again as part of an exceptional hardship plea (there's a bit more to it than just standing there saying "I really need my car"), about 1:4 of the people making such a plea succeed (many more just accept their fate too). If you succeed - you still get the points but you cannot use the same basis for another exceptional hardship plea within 3 years. And the courts do keep records and do check up with each other on the basis of exceptional hardship used before. SO, if people are managing to make this argument more than twice its either over a protracted period, or they were never actually going to get banned anyway.
Magistrates hate cyclists even more than speeding drivers, get someone to give you a lift.
I'm going to call that out as nonsense. I think if you turn up in full lycra with your helmet on and clip-clop roady shoes though you might raise a few eyebrows (although I'll bank on it they've seen worse!). I am sure that there are some magistrates who find cyclists irritating, but its certainly not so commonplace to make such a generalisation. It may shock you to know that some magistrates even ride bikes. Sometimes even to get to court.
it’s unfortunate that my girlfriend will have to do all the driving on our trip to Cornwall in the summer.
You'll be popular there, then. I don't think I've ever been forgiven for the Mrs doing all the driving in France as I'd left my driving license behind.
Rather old article now so thingsay gave tightened up
Rather old article now so thingsay gave tightened up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40862975/blockquote >
You'd hope, frankly. I thought there had been some sentencing guidelines that 'exceptional hardship' wasn't to be taken into account any more.
Ended up with 6 month ban & £800 fine.
EEK! That seems harsh. How fast were you going?
I got an SP30 (41 in a 30 on a duel carriageway) a few years back and paid the fine but couldn't find my driving license. I ordered a new one and it never arrived. I got in touch and kept them informed about what was going on. Turns out the postie had put my license through next doors letterbox who'd been on holiday for 2 weeks. So I surrendered my license 24 hours too late and so had to go to court.
I explained what had happened and included the communications I'd had keeping them informed as to what was going on
£420 fine + £120 court costs and 4 points
****s!!!
@MoreCashThanDash - viva le revolution! I like it.
@kerley - nope, flat out with the choke out everywhere. I try get maximum velocity past schools at kicking out time. Lap the M25 in under an hour, all that sort of good stuff.
Has it stopped you speeding now?
For 6 months it has
What the hell speed were you doing for it to take two years to process an SP30 and net you an £800 fine? Were you driving an F-15 up the M6?
Can’t even commiserate with a pint as I’m on antibiotics.
Depends entirely on the antibiotic, you might be able to.
If you got 6 months down there for an SP30 then thank god you weren't in Scotland. That sounds like a custodial up here !lol
Speeding is the new "Heroin dealing to small children" up this way.
We should adopt a modern version of the “sans permit” class of cars, as they have in france. get people out of their Chelsea tractors and into Citreon Ami’s
Now that sounds like a great idea.
Kangaroo court is my experience.
They tried to get started without the clark in the room, the mags didn't have a clue.
Long story short, I received a ticket in the post, I sent payment and licence off, got a summons in the post for mags court a few weeks later.
Took advice from a mate (Barister), told the court that that I had already had a fine in the post and that I had already sent the payment and my licence off for the three points and the fixed penalty. They couldn't really do much more in court other than what they had already offered in the first letter. None of them properly understood except the duty solicitor who I spoke to before I went in, neither the Clarke or the duty solicitor were in the room when they started...The Clarke kept having to correct the Mags as they kept dropping the fine and the points until they got down to where they were on the initial letter. My barrister mate told me I should have asked for expenses as I should have never had to go to court in the first place..I wasn't that cheeky.
Get advice, is my advice. Minimum speak to the duty solicitor.
I have broken the speed laws a couple of times....on the bicycle, and even managed once to set off the flashy thing 😀
They had one in Newton Mearns in Glasgow, at the bottom of a hill and I managed to set it off on the third attempt.
Half the time I reckon these speed cameras are just a way of making money for the council and are set too low. People who consistently seed are mostly doing a lot more than the limit, at least 50% or 60% more, and going over by 5 or 6mph is a bit of a joke, in that the speedometer in cars has to have a bit of leeway.
Roses are red,
I was caught speeding,
I'm sorry your Honour,
It's guilty I'm pleading.
Half the time I reckon these speed cameras are just a way of making money for the council and are set too low
Except "the council" don't get the money and smart arse lawyers can get rich clients off by arguing the cameras aren't calibrated correctly.
But yeah, it's just a money making war on motorists.
But yeah, it’s just a money making war on motorists.
There are five deaths a day and (I think) 64 serious injuries on British roads every day. The higher the speeds involved, the higher the energy and the worse the injuries.
I am not going to pretend I’ve never sped, but ‘war on motorists’ is, I am afraid, bollocks. There’s a choice here, speed, accept you’re breaking the law and take the (frankly pretty low, given the state of traffic policing) risk of getting done, don’t speed and don’t risk it.
Speeding is not dangerous.
Bad driving is dangerous and driving too fast for the situation is bad driving.
I wish people would accept that instead of this speeding kills mantra, which is bollocks.
(not that I'm stating you are saying that )
I think he was being ironic.
@brads - speeding *is* driving too fast for the situation, it doesn't matter what *you* think the situation is, the speed limit is there as a maximum, not a target, speed.
And I think that MoreCash was being ironic/sarcastic.
I'm sure Mos won't mind me saying. It was a totting up ban. He also didn't have to walk home. I had to pick him up from Skipton 😂
@brads I’m not directly saying that speed is dangerous, what I am saying is that if you are involved in a collision, the outcome is likely to be worse the higher the speed and resulting energy is. There’s some stat (which I wish I could remember the source for, and the exact numbers) but it’s something like cycling on A-roads accounts for about 30% of miles, but 70% of fatalities due to the higher speeds involved.
Clearly, e.g. driving at 70 in fog (which I used to see loads on the M62) is technically legal but us also bloody stupid; also I don’t really see why doing 80 on the motorway (which is about the same as the 130 km/h limit in France) is particularly unsafe but it’s against the law and as above if you’re going to do it, you take the risk of being done.
@MoreCashThanDash I hope I’ve not misinterpreted your post…
Speeding is driving too fast for the limit, not the situation. And the old "target" adage is moot in what I'm discussing.
Almost as bad as "speed kills" (It doesn't)
Driving too fast for the situation is simply bad driving whatever the speed.
I got that, and agree about outcome potentially being worse at higher speed, but that applies at slow speeds as well as high speeds.
And I think that MoreCash was being ironic/sarcastic.
Yeah, I forgot the emoji, was responding to dyna-ti, but if you have to explain the joke....🤦♂️
12
Magistrates Court for speeding, what ti expect?
(Sic) a good moral kicking on here for starters
I N R A T S
Get up to 12 points then move here to Spain where they take points off you for speeding. Worth a shot...
Final offence was 40 in a 30. Maybe fine was commensurate with my salary & mortgage position.
It's been delayed multiple times because of covid. I've been a good boy since it happened.
What the hell speed were you doing for it to take two years to process an SP30 and net you an £800 fine? Were you driving an F-15 up the M6?
Pedantic point, but surely in that case it would have been an SP50? 😉
