Magazine reviews

This became an issue way back with Top Gear on the telly too. The number of times they reviewed a mass market car decreased year on year. In fact, during a review of the 2005 Honda Civic, James May actually referenced the fact with something like listen closely, this is a car you might actually buy. 

I think it was LJK Setright (a well known motoring journalist) who wrote a column a few decades ago which basically said that as the vast majority of cars that were produced were of a decent quality, finding something to say to differentiate one from another was getting more and more difficult and so reviewers ended up splitting hairs.

I’m not sure we’re quite at that stage with mountain bikes yet. Geometry and drivetrains are still evolving, but having said that, most are already pretty good, and usually the limiting factor is the rider not the bike.

I suspect that the Venn diagram of "people who drive a Qashqai" and "people who buy car magazines" would tend towards two discrete circles.

Similarly, those whose bike is a £100 BSO with a bloody great spring in the middle probably aren't Singletrack® subscribers.

as the vast majority of cars that were produced were of a decent quality, finding something to say to differentiate one from another was getting more and more difficult and so reviewers ended up splitting hairs.

This makes sense.  But its also the marking down of things that many (most?) people would consider a plus!

'Prioritises comfort over spirited driving' is what sparked my post - it's a direct quote from a review, a negative mark against a family hatchback. In the context of a review for a BMW M3 or a Golf GTi that would make sense.  But not a school-run mobile! Those buyers have completely different priorities!

This isn't sposed to be a major whinge btw, just made me chuckle...

What Car will review a car very differently to EVO magazine.

‘Prioritises comfort over spirited driving’ is what sparked my post – it’s a direct quote from a review, a negative mark against a family hatchback.

Probably directed at petrol-heads who get forced into buying sensible cars when kids arrive! 🙂

‘Prioritises comfort over spirited driving’ is what sparked my post – it’s a direct quote from a review, a negative mark against a family hatchback.

It might be worth digging deeper into the text of the review here. It may be that they’re trying to say that there are competitors that are both comfortable and rewarding to drive?

Getting back to your point about mountain bike reviews being irrelevant for the majority of riders, I do think that mountain biking has and continues to evolve so much as a sport that old school mountain biking (off road XC) is probably best considered these days as gravel biking?

Are all hobbyist mags like this?

In a word; yes. The trouble with reviewing stuff is that the more you do it, the more you look for something exciting or different, or weird, becasue that's the nth [insert specialty consumer item here] you written about this week. Whereas punters will maybe test one or two before buying [insert specialist consumer item here] if they're dedicated and wouldn't really be able to spot the teeny differences that are wildly obvious to the experienced (and perhaps a wee bit jaded) reviewer. Hence why weird and difficult cars/bikes/boats sometimes get amazing reviews; get bought by folks who really shouldn't be buying them and get a bad rep off the back of it.

The art, I suppose, is being a jaded reviewer but still writing it in such a way as to be relevant and consumable for the punter without looking like it's been a bore fest to review [insert specialist consumer item here] but I guess that also no one really wants to read that the car they're thinking of buying is pretty good around the Tesco Extra CP, but less good on the back roads...

I've been looking at car reviews recently too (can't decide whether to get a car or van) and I know exactly what you mean OP.

Feels like car journos write their reviews for each other rather than readers IYKWIM.

The other limitation of reviews is that the thing that matters a lot to most buyers is long term durability, and it's borderline impossible to test that on more than a few select items, and even then the long-term test will be for a year, rather than the ~5 year lifespan that the buyer will likely use it for.

‘Prioritises comfort over spirited driving’ is what sparked my post – it’s a direct quote from a review, a negative mark against a family hatchback. In the context of a review for a BMW M3 or a Golf GTi that would make sense. But not a school-run mobile! Those buyers have completely different priorities!

First up, I hate almost everything about car's, and that hatred only intensifies towards the "enthusiast" end of the spectrum. I live a stones throw from a park and ride that's been taken over by car clubs every night/weekends so frankly Golf R owners can get in their ghonorea soaked sea.

But even setting that aside. Most mainstream car's have got objectively worse. I've hired a few over the years and the combination of smaller turbocharged engines, lighter power steering, SUV bodies. They all barley pay lip service to being "driven". There's always been bad handling, but now it's bad handling filtered through controls that only vaguely feel attached to the car.

So yes, no one outside "car people" cares anymore (if they ever did).

And all the reviews are like:

Pros: Powerful engine, Aggressive styling
Cons: Prioritises comfort over spirited driving, Engine noisy above 7k revs

Which magazine was it and which car?

This became an issue way back with Top Gear on the telly too. The number of times they reviewed a mass market car decreased year on year. In fact, during a review of the 2005 Honda Civic, James May actually referenced the fact with something like listen closely, this is a car you might actually buy.

The problem is that people buy a car every ~6 years. So if you make a car show for consumers you end up with 5th Gear and don't get commissioned because your viewers are only going to be that narrow band of people who sort-of care about cars, but only in the middling trim, and looking to buy one in the near term. Top Gear realized this and became an entertainment show about cars that appealed to a broader audience.

If you want some OLD, OLD Top Gear silly review stuff, Tiffany Del was comparing the Honda Integra Type R (DC02) against the Volkswagen Golf GTI of the time. These are both at the enthusiastic end of the hatchback spectrum.

The Honda was noted for it's amazing gear changer, sharper handling and engine response but marked down for the lack of low range torque. Having owned one, I would say that was a valid summary.
The VW was noted for its reputation, build quality and smother ride but marked down for lack of sportiness. So not really a hot hatch then.
In the final summary, the Golf won for having better residuals and the clincher was...
...the Honda didn't have a remote boot release which is really annoying on a day to day basis.

Hot hatch review or review for people who want to be reassured by the image, residuals, comfort and convenience?

The problem is that people buy a car every ~6 years. So if you make a car show for consumers you end up with 5th Gear and don’t get commissioned because your viewers are only going to be that narrow band of people who sort-of care about cars, but only in the middling trim, and looking to buy one in the near term.

This is true - a couple of years ago I watched an old Top Gear clip, of Quentin Thingummy giving tips on what to look out for when buying a second hand Metro or somesuch. It was possibly the dullest 3 minutes of television you cold imagine!

Which magazine was it and which car?

The thing about comfort over spirited driving being a negative - not sure! Possibly a recentish Citroen C4 or DS4? Or maybe a Volvo V40 or V40 Cross Country.  The mag... it was one of the ones that doesn't have a black background.  Hope this helps 😆

There are two types of car mags really, I think. The ones aimed at people who are making a sensible, considered decision to buy a sensible, considered car and the stuff aimed at 'enthusiasts' who are mostly wetting themselves at the imagined prospect of driving a car that could potentially splatter them across the landscape as a reward for a mllisecond's lapse in concentration.

I suspect many of the people writing for the first type, secretly wish they were actually writing for the second, which is why they suddenly lapse into comments about 'sportiness' and the whole spirited driving guff while reviewing a seven-seat, family-orientated hybrid SUV.

I'm not sure there's much more you can say, except that when one type of mag journo gets hold of a car intended principally for the other, it all gets a bit weird.

'Spirited driving' always makes me laugh. It's a sort of ****'s shorthand for 'driving like a **** while imagining you are Tiff Needell or whoever.

All cars are pretty good these days, so its hard to differentiate them.

Over the last decade or so, video reviews became the norm (rather than the exception of top/5th gear) and are so much more useful than text and pictures.

Even they fall flat on describing the feel of the car.

I recently got myself a new (to me, 2020) car. What do I like most about it? the feel of sitting in it and driving it. and all that is very subjective. based on both my needs, and what I am comparing it to.

My car is supposedly stiffer, sportier lower driving position than most its siblings and cousins within the VAG group. However I consider it a relaxing and comfortable drive, and exactly what I wanted, especially compared to my 2013 hatchback.

I love the interior, the layout and just the feel of the materials. Reviewers at the time however decided it was not as nice as its german and japanese rivals.

The same could be said of bikes, there are very few bad bikes made these days but we all read the reviews and justify a replacement to ourselves when the outgoing one if still far better than we are.

I’m not sure we’re quite at that stage with mountain bikes yet.

Of course we are, we have been for years, and biking mags have always banged on about nonsense (like the comparative stiffness of components that they cannot possibly measure without lab equipment, or 'braking feel', 'vertical compliance' etc etc).

They have to try to find something to say because "it's a five grand bike, of course its decent" isn't going to sell copies.

I remember yeeeeears ago a bike mag did a review of a Boardman road bike, one of their range toppers, and made some comment about how it was good but the geometry was probably not right proper racing. Chris Boardman responded by saying "this is the same frame geometry as the frame we made for Nicole Cooke that she'd just won the Olympic road race on, we don't just pull the numbers out of a hat".

Is there a YouTube channel, or something similar, which specialises in comparing which cars are best for carrying a couple of XXL sized 29'er mountain bikes plus a couple of people plus camping gear and a dog?

Cos I'd watch that channel once every 10 years when I replace my car...

The online car reviews are equally odd.

We will bitch about fake exhausts and go into detail about the sat nav/infotainment thing graphics, but not tell you how the stereo sounds...

They often praise 18 wheels over 17 inch or even 16 inch as they look nicer and corner faster!  I may have been one of the only Scooby drivers who went from 18 to 17 wheels by choice!   B roads = pot holes .  An 18 rim was damaged on a pot hole!  A nicer ride on 17 as well.

Maybe some sporty cars will go gravel style soon and big tyres!! LOL

I may have even bought a Golf R estate if 17 rimes were a std option!

Edit:

Interesting about bike reviews, I remember the write ups for compliant forks on road bikes giving a nice ride , then when thu axles came they said it stiffens a fork up nicely!   A big contradiction!  Bike reviews can be so funny sometimes!  had many a chuckle over the years.

It was funny I recently bought Evo which I had on prescription for many years in the past and long time ago , my interests have changed a bit so the recent reviews I read from a different  perspective , great reading makes you feel like you are driving the car but same old stuff basically, must not be the job its ctacked up to be .... At least mtb reviewers experince the great out doors as well and all thst goes with it!

Lots of products are like this. People are always slightly disappointed when they ask me what camera to buy and I sort of shrug and say it doesn’t matter, they’re all pretty good nowadays. I’m just as guilty of endlessly dithering over other stuff mind. It’s how we’re trained as consumers.

the-muffin-man
Full Member

What Car will review a car very differently to EVO magazine.

Yep, What Car covers cars that its readers might buy, EVO covers memorabilia and watches that its readers might buy and cars that they absoltely can't afford and will probably never even see. Strange magazine.

Last week I spent a day maintaining my 2008 Viper FS X-C mountain bike. I overhauled the Revolution fork, spent an hour grinding out a frame pivot bearing and replacing it, replaced the Fox RP23 that has never worked very well with a Manitou I had lying around. Brake pads, chain... . A day of my life and about 50e to revive the old machine. I rode it with the club today rather than my 27.5 Carbon Zesty AM. It's different: much quicker steering, more of a handful downhill, goes up nicely; in 15 years there has been progress but not much. Then compare with my MTB of 15 years before that, a 1992 Giant carbon with Manitou II fork and canti brakes; night and day. So MTB development continues but is slowing.

As for cars my Zoé is the best road car I've owned - smooth, silent, comfortable, economical, easy to drive... . However, given a closed road to thrash down for the grin factor I wouldn't chose anything made after 1983.

compare with my MTB of 15 years before that, a 1992 Giant carbon

I was still riding my 1993 carbon Giant every day until long COVID put a stop to it! 😃

Great commuter. Not sure I'd want to launch it down a mountain now tho ...

It was funny I recently bought Evo which I had on prescription for many years in the past and long time ago , my interests have changed a bit so the recent reviews I read from a different perspective , great reading makes you feel like you are driving the car but same old stuff basically, must not be the job its ctacked up to be …. At least mtb reviewers experince the great out doors as well and all thst goes with it!

TBH I remember reading a good article in ‘Car’ back in the day when they took a Ferrari to morroco, was probably one of the first ‘different’ articles and the pictures were stunning in the day.

I’d say there’s probably more cars that are on unobtainable £x million now than back in the day,you’re weren’t buying a ferrari then but the 911’s were in reach after a fair few years.

But even setting that aside. Most mainstream car’s have got objectively worse. I’ve hired a few over the years and the combination of smaller turbocharged engines, lighter power steering, SUV bodies. They all barley pay lip service to being “driven”.

Isn't that subjective?  Objectively, cars are faster, more efficient, quieter, safer, roomier, have more driver aids than ever.

Subjectively, one man's "driver involvement" is another's "loud and uncomfortable".

TBH there’s cars for pootling to the schools and shops and other ones for driving around lake Garda flat out whilst being shot at 🙂

@ayjaydoubleyou come on then, tell us what it is? 🙂

At this point it's worth pointing out that something like the new volvo 30 electric thing in its highest spec, a car aimed at the school run and tesco's crowd - by coincidence and not by design will out accelerate a Ferrari from a few decades ago. Reviews have even pointed out that the brakes can't contain the burden of this speed on its mass. Anyone else feel increasingly unsafe out there given the average standard of driving on display? Which begs the question wether anyone in that industry ever steps back and questions whether just because they can, that they should.

Almost all of the cars I've bought over the years, my choices have been influenced by one magazine or another.  But I wouldn't be happy driving a 'run of the mill' type car.  Main criteria though with any car has been can I get a bike in or on it reasonably easily.  That said, I've had the mountain bike on my Lotus Elise a few times using a Seasucker carrier.  Works a treat.

@ayjaydoubleyou come on then, tell us what it is? 🙂<br /><br />

Audi A5

by coincidence and not by design will out accelerate a Ferrari from a few decades ago. <br /><br />

Hit the nail on the head there. It’s not a deliberate feature it’s a quirk of the electric drivetrain. <br />it’s the same but reversed issue with ice cars. If it was designed and geared so it could cruise economically and easily at 70, you would get triple digit top speeds. <br />manufactures can electronically restrict them of course but then it looses spec sheet top trumps. 

‘Spirited driving’ always makes me laugh. It’s a sort of *’s shorthand for ‘driving like a * while imagining you are Tiff Needell or whoever.

Amen brother

I’ve hired a few over the years and the combination of smaller turbocharged engines, lighter power steering, SUV bodies. They all barley pay lip service to being “driven”.

Unless you're 'driving' on a track and those things are making that experience less enjoyable for you, my heart bleeds purple piss.

The fact that as a society we've been conditioned to see motor vehicles as anything other than domestic appliances is the significant cause of many of the climatic, financial, health, fitness and urban planning f--k ups we're currently inflicting upon ourselves, each other and the planet.