You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
People grumble about low spec cars because they like the optional extras on cars, not because they care what others think about their cars.
No, i grumble because the seats are uncomfortable, they are noisy and very often badly put together.
Bear in mind, my threshold for all of these parameters are wildly different to yours. Because any minute now someone is going to pop up and say that their 14 year old Peugeot is the comfiest thing they've ever sat in, and silent as the grave. And nothing squeaks, creaks or rattles.
Interesting discussion..
The bit that I don’t fully understand is that the scheme was introduced in April 2021 at £40,000.. we’re now at the end of 2024 and yet it remains at £40,000. Adjusted for inflation it should be £48,413.95.
I guess it's not inflation based then, so how are the other measures of economic performance going for the UK? National Debt? GDP? Public spending (as a proportion of GDP? Number of family's below the poverty line? Can the current government afford to just give up such sources of funding?
Plus with a luxury tax on cars, you have to wonder if the demographic it typically affects (predominantly high earners) are a group that a Labour government aren't particularly concerned about wooing/alienating, because they probably consider them more likely to vote Tory regardless of how various wealth based taxes affect them. while the Tories that imposed the current luxury car tax arrangements probably thought they could rely on those same votes...
There's a question, would this specific issue be one that affects the way you vote at all?
The cars are also bigger heavier faster with more gadgets.
A lot of the gadgets can be trinkets, or for driving pleasure - or for safety...
Emergency braking for collision avoidance
Warning systems to let you know if someone is approaching too quick at the rear
Voice controlled systems so you aren't messing about with your stereo
Warning systems to tell passengers not to open a door if a cyclist is approaching
Junction surveillance to give an extra pair of eyes when, lets say - a cyclist might be approaching that's difficult to see on a restricted view junction
Just a few examples of modern car technology that you don't get on 'utility' spec or older motors
Just a few examples of modern car technology that you don’t get on ‘utility’ spec or older motors
Actually, the hire Dacia I had recently seemed to have most of them. And they worked better than the Ford Tourneo I just hired.
Most of the safety stuff is now mandated if the car is a recent model (as in has been launched recently) - certainly need it if you want a none terrible ncap score.
Warning systems to let you know if someone is approaching too quick at the rear
I can think of multiple situations in which this knowledge is useless! Possibly dangerous if driver panics! How does one utilize this particular piece of information when getting out of the way is either unsafe or not an option? Assume crash position?
I can think of multiple situations in which this knowledge is useless! Possibly dangerous if driver panics! How does one utilize this particular piece of information when getting out of the way is either unsafe or not an option? Assume crash position?
I don't know about other cars, but in mine it will put the hazards on to try and alert the oncoming vehicle.
As I tend to not pull right up to the bumper of the car in front and the auto hold is on, if I get a warning, I have the option to maybe move another 10ft or so forward with a quick dab of the accelerator and potentially get out of the way of the crash zone.
I'm generally looking for this kind of stuff in my rear view mirror anyway, but if I can get another warning, it's all good with me
It has to be set to a 'defined' (DVLA defined) value to stop each dealer taking the p1ss where the car costs £5 but you have to buy the key at £39,995.
It is a joke in that 10+ years ago when introduced, £40k hit big Mercs, big BMWs and Land Rovers. Quite rightly. But now it's hitting middle of the road Ford, Vauxhall, Skoda, Hyundai and even Kia.
They should stick it on the 1st reg cost - make the new car purchaser pay. But the rental and leasing car companies didn't want that (as they'll ship the car on after 2 or 3 years so only get hit by half of it and spread out) so the Gov of the day (Tory gov ?) favoured them.
I can think of multiple situations in which this knowledge is useless! Possibly dangerous if driver panics! How does one utilize this particular piece of information when getting out of the way is either unsafe or not an option? Assume crash position?
The car also does things, precharge the brakes, get ready to discharge airbags and pretensioners, prepare to apply the handbrake/EPB if the car starts rolling (after the crash), begin connecting to any oncall services etc Depending on the manufacturer and what options you've paid for.
The question is though, why?
Because it's my job. I've spent 20+ years, on and off, being paid to pick fault with cars. And then write about it.
There are plenty of taxes that seem unjustified/unfair but at least with this one you can easy choose to avoid it if you want, without any risk of anyone even calling you tax avoiding/evading scum.
has been mandatory on all cars since 2022 – so even utility spec new cars have it
Probably doesn't happen in the car world, but I have a bike manufactured in the EU in 2016* that doesn't even comply to emissions regs introduced in 2006, nor does it have abs, although that was covered by an "end of series" declaration.
* 1st Registered in 2018
Warning systems to let you know if someone is approaching too quick at the rear
Mine's got that! I think they call it a "rear view mirror"
Only on STW could you list a load of car SAFETY features (some of which are designed with actual cyclists in mind) and people find a reason to sneer about them.
This place is incredible sometimes
The car also does things, precharge the brakes, get ready to discharge airbags and pretensioners, prepare to apply the handbrake/EPB
I've never heard of any of these things (aside from pretensioners). In normal conditions the car isn't ready to do these things?
As far as I'm aware, airbags are attached to an electronically-ignited firework. What is there to prepare? I don't really want to bounce off the steering wheel because the car goes "hold on, I wasn't ready."
Mercedes Pre Safe is an example of this
Only on STW could you list a load of car SAFETY features (some of which are designed with actual cyclists in mind) and people find a reason to sneer about them.
Yeah.
STW: Drivers are terrible!
Also STW: We hate automatic safety features!
I’ve never heard of any of these things (aside from pretensioners).
Maybe you need a Luxury car? 😉
In normal conditions the car isn’t ready to do these things?
It's ready, yes. But 50 ms of prewarning allows it to do them better. And if the crash doesn't happen, it goes back to ready.
As far as I’m aware, airbags are attached to an electronically-ignited firework. What is there to prepare? I don’t really want to bounce off the steering wheel because the car goes “hold on, I wasn’t ready.”
It'll be looking at the timing of the bags, which one first, second, third, and what the time delays should be, and how fast to deploy them. Based on stuff like what the steering wheel angle is, whats the yaw rate of the car, whats the pitch, is the car accelerating or decelerating, how much pedal is the driver using (and which pedal). With the advanced warning you can get a much better model, because you can monitor everything *now* and continually, rather than every 100-200ms. Which would lead to a preprogrammed sequence with minimal "extra" data, which will start once it recognises that an impact has happened.
(Precharging brakes changes the pedal response in some scenarios, to support slamming the brakes on and *really* meaning it. Rather than what a lot of people do which is lift off a little bit, for reasons i'm not aware of. Which makes the crash more likely and more than likely worse when it does happen.)
Right. That makes more sense.
Rather than what a lot of people do which is lift off a little bit, for reasons i’m not aware of.
This will be people who learned to drive pre-ABS. You put your foot to the boards and start sliding, every fibre in your body is screaming "you aren't slowing down, press harder!" but the correct thing to do is let off slightly to allow the wheels to start turning and regain traction.
This will be people who learned to drive pre-ABS.
That's one group, there's also *loads* of crashes with people too young to have learnt to drive without ABS. It's just a weird thing that happens. I suspect it's partially because they are surprised by the amount of braking you can actually get when you *really* want to stop from speed. And how much stuff shifts around in the car. Loudly.
"Assumed knowledge" handed down from parents, don't brake too hard or you'll skid?
/shrug
Why do drivers of luxury cars need so much safety tech?? Drivers of BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, Range Rovers etc are well known for being such careful drivers full of empathy for other slower drivers.
“Assumed knowledge” handed down from parents, don’t brake too hard or you’ll skid?
Or watching their thousand quid mobile phone disappear into the footwell, followed by a litre of mocha focka wocka starbucks?
Why do drivers of luxury cars need so much safety tech?? Drivers of BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, Range Rovers etc are well known for being such careful drivers full of empathy for other slower drivers.
Much of it's legally mandated, so it'll be on poverty spec Dacias eventually. Luxury and premium brands do it first (usually before it's legally required to sell cars) because it's easier to amortise the cost of parts/software/testing in an expensive car than a cheap car. Also they tend to do more regular, and more thorough facelifts/updates, which may also trigger the legal mandate to have it fitted. (Some updates are only considered to be "decorative" so not sufficiently new car ish to require it to meet *all* the new regs, just yet.)
A lot of the gadgets can be trinkets, or for driving pleasure – or for safety…
Emergency braking for collision avoidance
Warning systems to let you know if someone is approaching too quick at the rear
Voice controlled systems so you aren’t messing about with your stereo
Warning systems to tell passengers not to open a door if a cyclist is approaching
Junction surveillance to give an extra pair of eyes when, lets say – a cyclist might be approaching that’s difficult to see on a restricted view junction
Or just don't use a phone whilst whilst driving?
elsewhere on STW it seems ok to spend £4k on a bike
There’s a £12k bike in this thread.
Buy whatever car you like, love, enjoy and can afford. If your nearly new car falls into a bracket where you pay a few more pennies tax… shrug it off and get on with enjoying your purchase. If you can’t afford it, buy something cheaper.
Or just don’t use a phone whilst whilst driving?
Not sure why you went to the effort of quoting me, when nowhere in my post did I mention the use of a phone?
It seems like the shitbox drivers are losing their minds in this thread and just coming out with random words now.... 😉
elsewhere on STW it seems ok to spend £4k on a bike when you can also buy a bike for £400 both have two wheels saddle etc etc. No frothing there <shrug>
The sticky PSA thread has people going "absolute bargain" over a pair of bicycle wheels costing seven hundred quid. At that price point I'd expect them to come fitted to an entire bike. And pedals.
Which, y'know, is fine and all, but puts the snobbery arguments into perspective. A bike is just a tool, amirite?
A bike is just a tool, amirite?
Heretic - even on a rarely cycling cycle forum...
Buy whatever car you like, love, enjoy and can afford.
Did you hear about the guy who *********** Austin Princess?
I’m with Kelvin. Drive what you want to drive and what you can afford (same for bikes). No need to look down or be just downright rude “shitbox drivers”.
i like driving our 16yr old Honda which might be considered as crap car by some.
No need to look down or be just downright rude “shitbox drivers"
Jesus, it was a tongue in cheek comment, because the older/base spec car drivers seem to have some problem with modern safety systems
It's only the older/base spec car drivers that seem to have a problem with what anyone else drives tbh - if they deem it to be a 'luxury motor'
I've had more than my fair share of shitboxes and loved them all (well not all) but I couldn't give a toss what anyone drives, be it a £500 banger or a million quid supercar
Not sure why you went to the effort of quoting me, when nowhere in my post did I mention the use of a phone?
It seems like the shitbox drivers are losing their minds in this thread and just coming out with random words now….
Yeah I didn't get the point quite correct. I meant cars have so many safety systems but its almost cancelled out with the amount of people using phones when driving.
Anyway.
[url= https://i.ibb.co/bry2yK0/IMG-0167.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/bry2yK0/IMG-0167.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
It is funny. Outraged at 'poverty spec' 'shitboxes', outraged at Little Lord Fauntleroy luxo barges, outraged at spending more than whatever random minimum amount to get whatever is considered a 'car', outraged at spending YOUR money on things YOU want that differ from things other other people might want, outraged that you're not living in social housing, wearing a hair shirt and earning minimum wage, outraged that your Dad was/wasn't a toolmaker...
Just lots of outrage.
People. Tsssk. 🙂
.... and yet, disregarding all the psychological hangups to do with appearances - if we want the majority of drivers to adopt the next generation of cleaner cars as quickly as possible then somehow they're going to have to be made more affordable.
somehow they’re going to have to be made more affordable.
I'm not sure it matters if everything beyond 2030 has to be electric. Assuming there's only one choice people will have to take it or leave it. Obviously there'll be a long tail of ICE ownership but that'll sort itself once fuel/spares/expertise becomes scarce(r).
The current squabble about meeting %target electric sales leading up to compulsion feeds into the affordability discussion as well. IIRC, for each vehicle sold outside of the target, the manufacturer is 'fined' £15k. Who do we think will pay the £15k indirectly? That's another inflationary jump in new prices right there.
Plenty of people will be happy about it though as they don’t like others having nice things. Either because they can’t afford them, or because they don’t want others having what they can afford.
Sadly this is so very true.