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Sweet baby cheeses, the track looks fast! I’m going with:
1 - Bruni
2 - Goldstone
3 - Iles.
Vergier
Goldstone
Williams
Track looks absolutely ridiculous, but could have some Andorra style weather on the cards...Some good stuff on Vital already too.
That looks bonkers fast. I guess the top half is all about being brave enough not to touch the brakes
There will be chainring sizing up, shirt tucking into pants and speed tucking all round I think!
Wonder whether Super Brunis super suspension setting magic button comes into play on that flat out straight bits too - not much of it looks smooth though....
This is a new track isn’t it? Top does look flat out fast but gets seriously steep halfway onwards. The finals were up as tbc on the Saturday due to the weather, could it just be the semis that end up being raced? My random prediction is
Kolb
Vergier
Minnaar
Good to see Cathro back on the start list, really enjoying his vlogs this year, hope he qualifies.
Really really fast track. Love it. Going to crazy at the bottom once it gets steep and everyone's knackered from holding on so tight.
Theres a fairly sizable drop to not-quite-flat right at the end of the track, just before the final corner. Reminiscent of the one that finished of Rachel Athertons Ankle in Les Gets.
Right when you are absolutely blowing, fatigued, easily off-line.... could be interesting/
Troy Brosnan shown it best so far.... its hell of a huck!
The track looks amazing but it's not really 'built'. It'll be interesting to see how it shapes under with all this traffic. I know everyone complains about bikepark style tracks but at least they hold their shape under thousands of tyres. This one will be mutating all week.
If it got wet I'd just fly home.
Some surprising qualis.
Minnaar down in 55th
Jordan Williams in 102nd
and Jackson Goldstone; 109th.
This one will be mutating all week.
Perfect. Being able to adapt to changing tracks is a great skill to have
I rode it a few weeks ago, it wasn't fast for me! What is the forecast? It was crazy in the wet.
Sounds like Minnaar and Goldstone both crashed, but are protected. Nina lost time with a bad landing on the final step-down / corner which would probably have put her on par with Valli's time.
Good to see Cathro back on the start list, really enjoying his vlogs this year, hope he qualifies.
Unfortunately Ben DNS'd.
Looks like a great track, a bit different to the norm.. but it definitely looks like it'll 'evolve' over the weekend. One corner in particular looks like it's pretty much gone (see Jackson's course preview and I think it's on the VRaw above too).
There were some points in that vid, where even if I was physically capable of riding that track at those speeds, my brain couldn't keep up with where I was meant to go.
Having now watched a few of the vids that are up, the track looks absolutely full on, makes a good change to the more built tracks. Those sections after the bridge that are steep, technical and nastily off camber look insane on the track walks, it just looks vicious. Will be a real test of skill and nerves, of course they all are but this one looks a bit crazy.
Weather on my phone says some rain tmro pm, stormy, but then dry after that.
Juniors due on from 11am tomorrow. A few Brits made the cut so that's good
I swear he turns left while in the air, what tyres for thin air?
Eurosport 11am for junior finals today.
Love a new track 😊🤘
That video had me laughing. That first bit with the lump that caught a lot of riders out. Then you'd get one that just went round it smooth like butter... noticed the rider had Atherton* on their back. Sometimes though they'd launch of stuff that just looked insane.
*may have made that bit up.
Eurosport 11am for junior finals today
It isn’t showing up on YT ☹️
EDIT: Juniors cancelled due to bad weather
Be interesting to see what the weather does to the track
Just been out with the MTB club, we got back like drowned rats, I'll be surprised if much happens today.
Well judging by this clip of the juniors I found, it looks like the track is pretty much unridable in the wet, it’s really loamy in the steep oc sections rather than rocky and those bits are now greasy mush. With more rain forecast later and then the racing kicking off early, wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more timetable changes or cancelled altogether. Fingers crossed.
Sadly have to agree with Bernard..(in a ride companion podcast). faster tracks for bigger and more spectacular crashes and injuries = better TV with no compensation for the riders and their other means of finance progressively removed.
When the bloke rides Hardline after that crash say's that you have to stop and think! (Don't you?)
Well judging by this clip of the juniors I found, it looks like the track is pretty much unridable in the wet
On the other hand..
(although, presumably, he does crash a few times based on the cuts)
Seems like the UCI are pissing everyone off
Interview with Wyn is worth a watch for a bit more background / insider info and opinions:
Yeah I watched that last night, I wish the riders could get organised and tell the uci to **** off with their bullshit
Interesting that Flo seems to confirm Fort Bill for May next year after all of the rumours (again!) of this year's World Champs being it's swan-song on the circuit.
It looked a great potential track, but any degree of moisture will mean the elites will now probably be won by a lighter rider who can actually slow down at all on the steeps. Goldstone or Greenland would be good bets IMO.
Tracks like this are always going to be high risk for decent racing. The Vital Raw videos really showed how blown out many of the shallow catches were and how much earth each rider was shifting on each corner.
It would be great if the riders could get together and tell the UCI, Discovery etc to jog on, but I just can't see it happening. They are clearly not happy - now loads of criticism of the new format is coming out after what seemed to be a three line whip not to speak out. The format has been ruined, the coverage put behind a paywall and the commentary is terrible. Only the move to more footage from more of the course is an improvement. And what has happened to slow tech sections - they don't exist anymore apparently. 🙄
Hard to argue.
Dom Platt posting on PB not happy it was cancelled, Wyn Masters the same.
I posted about Rheola and arguable the UK Nationals at Rhyd Y Felin this year, the mud, slip, crashes were honestly ridiculous. I think I washed my lads bike 13 times at Rheola just to allow things to move, it was bonkers. His team mate crashed 5 times on race run and still got a podium in youth girls. I don't think my lad had a single run out of 15 runs where he didn't lie down. But this is what we are both rider and parents sign up for. It's how it is, the weather, we accept and just go with it. I've seen rain for 38 hours over a weekend, but you just get on with it.
I'd be amazed if many riders agree this should've been cancelled.
It would be great if the riders could get together and tell the UCI, Discovery etc to jog on, but I just can’t see it happening. They are clearly not happy – now loads of criticism of the new format is coming out after what seemed to be a three line whip not to speak out.
Yeah if you see the podcast with Bernard he seems genuinely upset that the riders union lost traction. (more resigned perhaps??)
Is it a daft question to ask if someone else just did a DH WC and got 80% or so of the riders with decent prize money, let them keep GoPro footage etc for their sponsors and provide medical insurance etc. would anyone care about the UCI event they call WC?
Considering a win only gets you €2000 and 10th gets you €200 which doesn’t even cover tyres it wouldn’t take much
would anyone care about the UCI event they call WC?
The problem is that the uci and British cycling are tied together. So you get a licence and points from BC which allows you or not to enter the WC races through qualification points etc. If you don't have one, you don't have the other.
This is a downside in some ways but also a plus, without the BC/UCI how do you decide who can or should be allowed to race? Or attempt to qualify? Unless you have these restrictions, then it's a potential free for all?
This of course doesn't affect the top 30 or 50 in the world, but could easily affect the other up and coming riders.
The more this season goes on, the more we all get the fact it's gone properly wrong in many ways, but it doesn't mean there's a quick and simple answer
Junior practice from this morning. It's a massacre
Ben Cathro speaks a lot of sense in his vid
Sadly have to agree with Bernard..(in a ride companion podcast). faster tracks for bigger and more spectacular crashes and injuries = better TV with no compensation for the riders and their other means of finance progressively removed.
Yet he turns up to ride hardline to help a company sell more drinks. He is always moaning about money yet is clearly doing very well from the sport. His company made £111k according to his latest accounts 2022 filings at companies house and £67k in 2021. Not bad for riding a bike
does seem a bit mental using courses where the chances of it being cancelled due to rain are so high
He is always moaning about money yet is clearly doing very well from the sport.
He's done well out of being canny with the exposure (advertising, sponsorship) the sport has brought him.. but that doesn't deflect from the fact the actual prize money for winning elite-level races is pretty pitiful.
does seem a bit mental using courses where the chances of it being cancelled due to rain are so high
It's an outdoor sport.. I'd rather run the risk and have an interesting race than suffer constant bike-park tracks which hold up in all weathers.
I'm suspicious that there's excessive "efficiency" in all aspects of organisation and that extends to weather contingency and safety planning. Its absolutely fine to cancel a race over safety issues, but not being prepared enough to anticipate them is another matter entirely.
Having an off-camber grass slope that will turn into a deep slop horror with any wet traffic, needing to carry speed into a big wood feature jump onto a mud runout seems a tad optimistic, especially in the mountains in late August/September.
It's one thing having a bit of slithery fun, but not with those kinds of consequences.
His company made £111k according to his latest accounts 2022 filings at companies house and £67k in 2021. Not bad for riding a bike
That’s not profit though is it? It doesn’t sound like much at all.
I though Wyn’s comments about the lack of ‘world’ in the UCI formats were bang on. Asia and South America would love some of this. As for the weather, maybe course designers could come up with routes that had slower b lines for wet weather conditions and a lines could be closed if there’s excessive risk on the day. After all it’s fastest down the hill however they get there.
I suspect it was cancelled as riders tripoding down the track doesn't make for great watching. Wyn made a comment on PB that the juniors out early were on non mud tyres. A set of wet screams and some flats plus ruts developing would surely have been ok. I think 90% of the races I've done here have been absolutely slop fests. Of the three times I've raced the EWS, 2 of them were muddy carnage and everyone survived. SDA races have been absolutely nuts over the years in the mud and rain. At DH world cup level, the standout runs or races have been in the mud. Danny at Champery! I've been down that track a few times in absolute bone dry dust and it was terrifying. Reece at Leogang, etc.
<p>All the clips from yesterday look great fun and funny, but it’s not racing. <br /><br /></p><p>I haven’t watched F1 for years but noticed they stopped when it rained a bit, even the commentators appeared to say it was common practice now.</p><p><br />What are todays timings ? Had a quick look at a forecast and it could possibly be raining out there this morning?</p>
When talking about the UCI and its hold over DH and now Enduro, you have to step back and consider that they are still niche disciplines as far as they are concerned. Significant, but still minority.
I think there are a few ways that rider power might influence things, but what would really shake things up is if one of the big pan-discipline brands like Trek or Specialized threatened to pull out and have some impact on the road side too. A key rider for me is Loic Bruni. If he was still world champ he could have refused to defend his title and dragged Specialized into an embarrassing argument with the UCI. If Charlie Hatton did this with Atherton bikes, it wouldn’t register outside of the gravity bubble. Loic seemed to be a big part of the union at the start, with Fin Iles also speaking up. Maybe Spesh told them to toe the line.
I can see DH fragmenting badly, to be honest. There are a few riders who have less reliance on actual results vs their online presence - they may choose to throw their weight behind Crankworx and Redbull, but it will just niche them more.
The UCI have sold the soul of DH to make money in the short term. The format changes exist solely to make TV coverage easier, but stuck behind a paywall.
Live coverage of the women's semis starts in 15 minutes (09:30).. not sure if that was brought forward again but thought I'd mention it so nobody misses out.
Jackson's quali crash was pretty scary:
Track looking ok today after yesterdays shambles, should be reasonably fast in a few hours 👍
I think the bit that is being overlooked is that for juniors you should replace that word with legally children and duty of care that comes with children racing.
I though Wyn’s comments about the lack of ‘world’ in the UCI formats were bang on. Asia and South America would love some of this.
Completly agree. There is nothing stopping event organisers putting on an event and applying to the uci to make it a worrier cup race. Perhaps wyn could organise one in NZ when he stops racing. It’s the danger in North America. Resorts have to want to out a race on for it to happen
Jackson was unlucky that his slip out left him pointing directly at that rock and drop. 😳
Mens' semi final looking good - the dirt is perfect for controlled drifts it would seem.
That’s not profit though is it? It doesn’t sound like much at all.
really. After all expenses, travel, training costs, and anything else that you can put through the books. I’m not saying it’s too much I’m just pointing out it’s hardly the breadline as he likes to portray. It’s in the top 1% of earners in the U.K.
Stuff I’m missing
knowing who’s coming next or next 10 riders.
When they cross the finish line it’s difficult to know easily if they are quicker/slower and by how much
Worst of all the commentators just appear to be counting them down, no actual interest in where they are gaining/ loosing time. Rob was brilliant on just knowing where and how they lost time.
plus all the current cameras are clearly missing sections where people are loosing time
Looking forward to the finals later
chrismac
Yet he turns up to ride hardline to help a company sell more drinks. He is always moaning about money yet is clearly doing very well from the sport. His company made £111k according to his latest accounts 2022 filings at companies house and £67k in 2021. Not bad for riding a bike
It's bloody terrible for someone at his level... Compare that to a football player.
The average salary for a Premier League player moved to over £3 million per year according to the Global Sports Salary Survey in late 2019. The average weekly pay for a first-team Premier League squad player is up over £60,000 per week, an increase of over £10,000 in just a couple of seasons.
Remember that is salary vs his total earnings if he was only declaring prize money/salary he'd not even reach a tax threshold and after expenses he'd be negative because he's not just "riding a bike".
What the UCI are doing is taking away his other earnings... I'm pretty sure he's not sponsored by Red Bull or Monster either
It’s bloody terrible for someone at his level… Compare that to a football player.
if you normalise it for the number of people who watch and know who he is, it’s probably quite good..
Cedric has calmed down in his commentary, and is much better for it IMO, getting across much more useful information rather than just yelling cliches.
It’s bloody terrible for someone at his level… Compare that to a football player.
one is a global sport watched by millions every day. One is a minority sport watched by virtually no one. Until this season DH was only available on a specialist website. Now it’s on Eurosport
one is a global sport watched by millions every day
To be fair if you've watched the Wrexham Amazon show, even football players at the very bottom professional leagues that aren't even necessarily televised make 40k+
Cracking race.. glad the weather stayed away. Good results for Phoebe Gale and Laurie Greenland. Drone shots were cool and gave a real sense of the speed. Thought the contributions from Aaron and Miriam were good too.
Must be time to squeeze in the junior race now..? 🤔
Must be time to squeeze in the junior race now..?
Don't joke. The way the UCI are doing the admin it is not beyond them to do this and then DQ 99% of the field for not taking the start line.
🤡🤡🤡
If you want to organise an event
https://www.uci.org/cities-documentation-for-organisers/1LTkspfgNiDT6Of3sYbgDm
ASSETS.CTFASSETS.NET give it a go.
Thats cool, the UCI even give you an instruction book.
That, combined with years of direct experience, financial backing from a global media organisation should mean its really easy...
So why are so many stakeholders pissed off?
Its even on P13:
Provide backup solutions, because a course which is impassable if the weather is bad is synonymous with
failure. Do not underestimate the need to prepare alternative routes which must be passable in any weather.
I think the semi final should have been the one removed from the schedule, not junior final.
People will defend ESO, but the main criticism (other than the paywall) was the lack of communication as to the changes they were making. It looks like they still haven't learned from that and made the decision to cancel the race without any engagement with riders or effectively communicated what is happening and why.
does seem a bit mental using courses where the chances of it being cancelled due to rain are so high
Snowshoe in October...
I think the bit that is being overlooked is that for juniors you should replace that word with legally children and duty of care that comes with children racing.
It's u18s, not kids. And they're the best in the world. Should have been a decision made with input from teams and reps.
Provide backup solutions,
I think eventually, when things like "The weather is too bad for the emergency helicopter to fly" you need to take a view on it. Plus from the UCI perspective, the weather in Andorra caused the injury of one of the elite female riders, and they had to make substantial changes to the course. With that only a week ago, you could see why they weren't going to take risks, I think they'd rather have headlines about junior racing being cancelled becasue of safety concerns than headlines of "everyone crashed, some riders were really badly injured, the racing was massively delayed, and it was a shit-show" No offence to Wyn, I think he wants DH to be genuinely good, but he's not having to take responsibility for the Junior racing. Having said all that; I think there's clearly a space for the riders/teams to take part in these decisions, and that needs to be in place sooner rather than later.
It’s u18s, not kids.
In most countries, that's literally the legal definition of children.
Thing is though, safety aside- the UCI, in its own guide for race organisers states that a course which is unrideable in wet weather is a recipe for failure, and thats precisely what happened this weekend.
UCI/ESO didn't have a course which was rideable in the wet weather, nor a wet weather back up. Whether that was down to budget (I fear the likeliest reason) or something else, its simply not acceptable at that level of event management. This isn't a local race being run by volunteers but a professional and experienced company backed by a multinational media company.
Is this though more about access to the hill in an emergency more than 'need a wet weather course'? We *need* steep hills to make it an exciting sport - but that means access could well be challenging.
I agree that this is an outdoor sport - and we take the wet with the dry as it were.
I also agree that it is not really a global sport at present and it would be good to see Asia, Africa and South America visited...
Short of running an event down the road or turning the course into a road there are many great MTB venues where an all weather course is not really possible. Living in Pau I just stay away from the mountains when it's wet: too steep and slippy. The organisers play a statistical game, there aren't many days at the end of August when it's too wet too ride, they happened to get one on race day this year. Having been up and down the local hills for 36 years there's a trend to more unpredictable weather in August with more extremes so more chances of a cancellation.
in its own guide for race organisers states that a course which is unrideable in wet weather is a recipe for failure, and thats precisely what happened this weekend.
Sure, up until it pissed with rain, everybody was completely stoked about riding a new course. Every single 'gram, and TikTok and team video on Friday was full of how it was great to go to new venues and ride a new hill and big smiles all round, and risk with doing that was that no one really knows what it's going to be like in the wet, and I'll bet money that if it stays in the calendar the very first thing they'll do is change the course so all those off camber sections and steep chutes will go, and the course will neutered just like all the other courses that we have now. Sometimes, when you roll the dice like this, you just get a 1.
its simply not acceptable at that level of event management.
I think that's a wee bit melodramatic, it's an outdoor mountain sport and weather happens, this is the very first time that a race cancellation has ever happened. In 30 or so years of events, that's a pretty good run. At the end of the day just the juniors didn't get to race, and we didn't get to watch what would've been a crash reel.
Last week Camille Balanche was badly injured becasue of the weather and luckily she's on the mend. I'd rather the UCI did this, than have "x numbers of children were injured because they felt they had to race in conditions that were probably with hindsight, not really suitable".
Is this though more about access to the hill in an emergency more than ‘need a wet weather course’?
That would be a fundamental part of a wet weather contingency surely?
I'm not trying to argue for sanitised courses, more that the organisers could/should have planned for wet weather and for whatever reason, failed to do so. Weather does happen, and should be taken into account in the planning stage.
Weather does happen, and should be taken into account in the planning stage.
How do you know that there wasn't 2-3 options and they worked through them until they arrived at option 4 - cancellation?
I mean, they tried to have practice for the juniors in the morning and the course was literally un ridable, at one point at the course riders were finding it hard to just stand, other than; "Here's this other course that we built just in case it rains, that no one's ridden and practiced on" what options would you suggest?
what options would you suggest?
"Provide backup solutions, because a course which is impassable if the weather is bad is synonymous with
failure. Do not underestimate the need to prepare alternative routes which must be passable in any weather."
From the UCI handbook linked above. Their own words, not mine.
Their own words, not mine.
Sure, you know that's a guide though right? I mean, again, it's worth bearing in mind it's an outdoor mountain sport, and it's never been cancelled before and the Elite riders still got to race. There comes a point that if you want to attract more venues to host these races (becasue everyone and their dog complains about Bike-Park motorway-a-like courses) then the downside is going to be this. If you then say to them, oh and by the way, you have to pay to make it completely weather proof, what then?
what are you arguing for? That racing should go ahead regardless? That racing should only happen on totally weather proof courses? The the Juniors should've sucked it up and crashed their way down? We shouldn't' hold it at new untested venues? That the UCI should have a crystal ball?
And again, the UCI let racing go ahead last week and the weather caused Camille to get pretty severe injuries including a concussion, you OK with that? Because that's going to be the outcome to "The race must proceed regardless"
I’m just saying that the UCI/ESO need to be doing a much better job than they are.
If they are telling organisers to plan for wet weather and prepare contingency then they must follow that advice themselves.
Likewise they are responsible for making the right decisions- Andorra was an organisational error in keeping the road gap open in that wind. Loudenvielle was a flawed track which couldn't cope with entirely foreseeable weather, and that should have been anticipated.
Yes, its the first year of ESO, but the people behind ESO have been around for a long time in EWS and UCI event management and these things simply should not happen at that level of professional event management.
Ah right, just unspecified general criticism because; Reasons.
Cool, cool.
Edited...
It also struck me that the teams didn't have suitable bikes. Riders were giving up because the wheels weren't turning. In the conditions a pair of 27.5 wheels with Michelin mud tyres would have given more clearance, and removing the front mudguard would have helped too.
Bit of thought on the Jnr cancellation on the latest Downtime podcast.
Bit of thought on the Jnr cancellation on the latest Downtime podcast.
Well balanced discussion.
I'm pretty certain it's a mix of track preservation for the big show with a smaller helping of junior rider safety.