Looming family trouble - how do I deal with this!...

Once he's in your parents house, if he is on any housing list.. he will drop off the bottom of it.

so once he is in he is in.

Only thing you can do is talk to your parents, you have to make them see they have tried and your brother needs to stand on his own feet

Are your parents in full command of their faculties or could they be classed as vulnerable adults?

I’m of the opinion that once he’s in, he’ll never leave. Despite him saying he’s on the council urgent list for housing due to his wifes illnesses. I also fear that the council will class his as him housed and not a priority anymore.

I would guess you are right.  Beyond telling your parents how you feel and pointing out to them they are stuck with him if they let him in I do not think there is much you can do really unfortunately unless they are "vulnerable"

Are your parents in full command of their faculties or could they be classed as vulnerable adults?

They still live pretty independently and manage all their own finances. I come in for tech issues and heavy lifting! My dad is fine mentally, my mum is slowly losing the battle with old age with early signs of dementia, but can very very sharp when she's on a good day.

Your parents will do what they like, you can advise them but unless they are deemed incapable of looking after their own affairs (have you a PoA in place?) there's not a fat lot you can do about it. Yes he will take advantage, but then again he clearly needs the support one way or another.

I don't talk to my brother either but he's nothing like as serious a problem. I just leave my mother to get on with him as she chooses.

Whether you refuse to visit is up to you, but it won't help your parents if you cut them off.

Try not to put your parents in the middle, it is their choice so try to be reasonable while discussing the options. You might have to dig deep to support their choice. 

I don't think there's anything to do. As a parent part of the deal is to help your kids out no matter what. Them forgiving your brother and helping him out in a hard time is really nothing to do with you

but then again he clearly needs the support one way or another.

...he's had a lifetime of bloody support.

Ask your parents what they want to do, and then support them the best you can to do it in a way that minimises the impact on your and your family and (hopefully) them.

You can't stop this if it's going to happen.

And bluntly if they arrive it means me and my sister (and families) will be staying away

If/when he moves in, it sounds like you should be there more rather than less

Get a Power of Attorney sorted asap if you dont have one already. This should be standard for everyone, but will protect your parents wishes in the future, especially if one already has signs of dementia.

Check what the restriction on tenants actually means - it may not apply to family, but if it does then there is a risk your parents may lose their house - know what the legal agreement actually says.

and good luck - getting parents to see sense with their children is tough (speaking as a parent)

Try not to put your parents in the middle, it is their choice so try to be reasonable while discussing the options. You might have to dig deep to support their choice.

Hmmmm - I am not convinced this is right.  Decisions have consequences and support need not be unconditional.  I don't think its unreasonable in this sort of situation to tell them that because of the total breakdown in relationship with your brother that if they house the brother you will not be able to visit any more but will still be able to see them away from the brother or chat via text

Families are a funny thing, people seem to forgive all sorts of ills just because of a biological relationship. I don't subscribe to that approach. Life is too short to be dragged down by bad people.

However, in this case, it is your parents choice. The best you can do is advise them. but don't cut them off, they may well feel in an impossible situation and your actions could, inadvertently, make things more difficult for them. 

You are worried about your parents, are you worried enough to take the matter out of their hands. Could you do this by offering your brother somewhere to stay or even paying for a month of accommodation? I know it is counter intuitive as you want nothing to do with him, but is protecting your folks a higher priority?

et a Power of Attorney sorted asap if you dont have one already.

This I've been trying to do for the last three years, but they won't do it. They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will 'get round to it one day'. I've printed the forms out and helped fill them in, but it's always ended there.

Families are a funny thing, people seem to forgive all sorts of ills just because of a biological relationship.

It's not bioligical either - all three of us children are adopted and my brother is the eldest has had always needed a lot more attention than me and my sister. It would be diagnosed as something today, but in the 1970s he was just a 'difficult' child.

There's also a massive can of worms going back to childhood that I would rather have been buried with my parents that this may open up. And I'm the level headed one in the family. Once my sister finds out it will explode...

I can't explain how much this would rip our ever decreasing family apart.

Could you do this by offering your brother somewhere to stay or even paying for a month of accommodation?

That is the only thing me and my wife can think off. My parents being traditional oldies have cash around the house and could fund accommodation for a while.

the brother you will not be able to visit any more but will still be able to see them away from the brother or chat via text

I'd not cut them off - I just wouldn't visit and play happy families.

Once my sister finds out it will explode…

Might as well light that fuse now, rather than in 3 weeks time

If you're parents are capable of making their own decisions you have to let them do that, even if they are bad decisions. Talk to them, advise them, warn them, sure, but they get to make the decision (and live with the consequences of it)

I think the only sensible plan is to tell your parents what you think, explain how it makes you uncomfortable, and leave it at that...But then you know what they say about the best laid plans.

It does sound to me (and I may very well be sticking my size 9s in where they're not wanted, apologies) that opening up a line of dialogue with your brother is long overdue, and that perhaps; this is the opportunity to explore that?

It does sound to me (and I may very well be sticking my size 9s in where they’re not wanted, apologies) that opening up a line of dialogue with your brother is long overdue, and that perhaps; this is the opportunity to explore that?

I appreciate your point, but it's not happening. We weren't mates in the business and never socialised together. And I could see the writing was on the wall for the business and kept saying we need to reign spending in, batten down the hatches etc. A few weeks later my brother goes out and orders a new Discovery and takes on another £50k on his mortgage for house improvements.

The water has flowed under the bridge and the river has dried up.

Families tend to collude to avoid acknowledging or confronting bad behaviour by family members. This is for all sorts of reasons including guilt, denial, and the wish to avoid the consequences of doing so.

I have family members who do this. It's very frustrating, but I have come to accept that there's little I can do about it. All I can do is concentrate on my relationship with them, which is what I do. I do however have boundaries, and so I will gently pick them up when they start rationalizing their behavior with platitudes.

I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it. Get your fiery sister involved; maybe one of you needs to temporarily move in to stop the rogue brother getting in there. Hopefully he will get offered council accommodation this year, but I bet he'd rather be in the parents' house.

I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it

Yes very likely.

If your parents want to give him a house, there's not a lot you can do about it.

You can't control what your parents do.. you can tell them what you think, but after that , their choice.

But you can be the bigger man here, and if him and his family do move in, then you should certainly not stop visiting.If it makes him uncomfortable, that's his problem. But you stay away, you lose any influence on anything

What a shit situation.
Definitely make your parents fully aware of your views.
Definitely involve your sister now; I doubt she will thank you for any delay.
Consider talking with the equity release company about a possible breach of contract.
Continue pushing parents to set up LPAs; try to prevent brother being nominated as attorney or replacement; look at options to add clause regarding preventing house being sold whilst either parent has mental capacity.
Have parents made a will? If brother etc move in, consider talking with solicitor and ask them to note moving in date as any change to will(s) in favour of brother after that date may result in a legal challenge by you and/or sister when parents die.

I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it

Probably depends a lot on what "equity-release" meant in the initial post

Probably depends a lot on what “equity-release” meant in the initial post

There will be little or no cash left in the end. It's not about money and my brother was effectively written out of the will years ago anyway (left nominal amount so he was considered).

Have you thought about a new patio?

This sounds very familiar..

My parasitic sister in-law has previously lived (with her 3 kids and illegal immigrant boyfriend) in the bungalow at the bottom of her folks garden. big fall out around 10 years ago and she wrecked the place before moving out.

about 18 months ago she got evicted from her rental house and managed to worm her way back into the recently renovated bungalow - rent free. The in-laws want to move/downsize and now cannot get rid of her, or the two feral kids still living with her.

Last i heard is they've agreed to give her £200k to buy a house (pretty much clearing them out of the retirement savings and recent inheritance) just so they can get rid of her.

My wife has let rip at them but they cannot see any wrong in it.

But you can be the bigger man here, and if him and his family do move in, then you should certainly not stop visiting.If it makes him uncomfortable, that’s his problem. But you stay away, you lose any influence on anything

I would say pretty much the opposite.  Make it clear to the parents that whilst brother is in the house you will not be visiting at all.  You can still see them outside of the house and keep in touch but by doing this you make it clear that this is a serious issue for you.  continuing to visit lets them think you are OK with it all. 

Surely there are tax implications and all sorts of paperwork involved here, if money is handed over.

please don't stop visiting your parents if this leech moves in, in fact I would pay more visits if he bluffs his way into their home. Consult your sister now. Get your parents to agree to LPA (it's taken my mum years, but she finally consented last year).
Good luck.

I've just come off the phone to CAB...

• It will affect the council waiting list as the council would consider them housed so no longer a priority.
• It will affect my mum and dads council tax as they currently get full council tax relief.
• It will affect their benefits. It's going to be found out as my brother would have to put mum and dad's address down so he could continue to claim his benefits.

...I bloody hate being the sensible ones in the family!

Sister is primed and ready - but I've told her not to get in touch till I see my parents after work. 🙂

They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will ‘get round to it one day’.

That's all well and good, but when they reach the point at which they don't feel capable it will be too late. Granting PoA is cheap and easy. Taking PoA is expensive and difficult. If they won't agree for their own sake, maybe they'll agree to it for yours?

I agonised over this for ages with my mum, how best to broach it. In the end I told her my partner had set it up for each other and "ooh, I've just had an idea!" She agreed, but sadly passed before we got it all finalised.

My parents being traditional oldies have cash around the house and could fund accommodation for a while.

From what you've said, I rather suspect that they won't have for very long if he moves in.

my brother was effectively written out of the will years ago anyway

And how long before he persuades them to change their wills? They might as well, it's effectively his when he's already living there, right?

They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will ‘get round to it one day’.

That’s all well and good, but when they reach the point at which they don’t feel capable it will be too late.

They need to think of it like a will. Deciding who to give your money to can only be done before you are dead. It doesn't mean that you have to give all your assets away before you die.

An LPA allows them to decide who they want to take key financial and medical decisions for them when they are unable to do so. It can only be done easily and cheaply before they lose capacity to make decisions. It doesn't mean handing over control right now.

Without an LPA there is massive cost and delay, and their wishes about key things like end of life care and being put in a care home or not, will be made by strangers and professionals, not family or whoever they trust.

Surely it’s time to reconnect with brother. If only to tell him to MTFU and sort his own problems out. Given the age of the parents I assume he’s in his late fifties in which case he’s all the man he’s ever going to be and is not ever going to change.

Tell him to do one for your parents sake.
Tell him if he doesn’t then you’ll be there every day at your parents to make sure he isn’t getting too comfortable and to check that he’s pulling his weight and seeking gainful employment to fund the responsibility for his elderly parents that he’s taking on.

He’s seeking the path of least resistance.

You and your sister have to provide more resistance than he’s comfortable with.

Have you not got a niece you can set on him as well?

Anyway, sounds like you've done the right thing and armed yourself with facts.

Have you not got a niece you can set on him as well?

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Families - bloody love them!

They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will ‘get round to it one day’.

People are stupid and stubborn, and usually get worse as they age.

That applies to the readers of this thread too. I bet no more than 10% have done their own PoA, probably less than half even have wills.

"I'll do it when it's too late."

I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it.

This was exactly what was running through my head reading the opening post, massive alarm bells there, especially considering that your parents are of advanced age and beginning to get frail.

I don't have much advice to offer but I have seen how people who think the world owes them a living can stoop pretty dam low if there's cash to be made, even when it comes to family.

At least you have your sister on side so you outnumber him. Hope you get this resolved.

Make it clear to the parents that whilst brother is in the house you will not be visiting at all

All that does is hurt the parents.

I've found that "telling people" who are grown adults rarely works as a method of persuasion. Especially if you don't have an ongoing relationship with them.

I've also found that there's little point in pursuing a relationship with someone who isn't interested, family member or otherwise.

There's no point in pushing against a closed door.

Mate, that's sounds like a shitter of a situation. I think Kramer nails it, appreciate it's bloody awful watching the slow moving car crash that is family drama.

But what's the likelihood of any adult in this situation doing a U-turn?

All that does is hurt the parents.

And sends a strong signal that the brother is the issue and that you will not allow this to be swept under the carpet.

Well that was a fun hour and a half but I think I've talked some sense into them. I can see they are very troubled by it though. I'm now compiling a text for them to send making it clear but in a polite way that they they're not in a position to help.

I hear you themuffinman and empathise with you. It’s a shitty situation to be in. I had similar with my brother in law for years. He was given money for a house deposit, had a half decent job. Lost his job, moved back in with parents and rented his house out. As he was on the dole the parents let him live with them cost free (never mind his income from his house). He spent the house money/rent and it ended up getting repossessed. Spent his life sponging of the parents and never working or helping around the house in anyway, (too many other stories I could share). The parents felt it was their duty to help him, blamed themselves for how he was. Unfortunately things turned nasty in later years and he hit his father, got thrown out for a time but moved back in. A few years later his dad passed and it was then the mother in law realised she could not cope but he refused to leave (by now in his 50s). It turned nasty and the mother (in her 80s) had to get a barring order to prevent him from entering the house as there was a fear he may manipulate the mother etc. thankfully we managed to get this all sorted before her dementia prevented her signing things. The brother in law……he ended up homeless for a bit! In sheltered accommodation for a bit. We lost touch but one of his brothers kept the lines of communication open with him (gave him bits of money/cigarettes etc). He passed away last year.

i feel I have not written this very well, just trying to say sometimes there is only so much help you can give someone if they won’t help themselves and not having them in you life is your only option but a parent may feel different towards them (rightly or wrongly), so I know where you are coming from, it’s a shit show. Good luck.

And sends a strong signal that the brother is the issue and that you will not allow this to be swept under the carpet.

And hurt the parents, who are in their 80s. Think about it.

That applies to the readers of this thread too. I bet no more than 10% have done their own PoA, probably less than half even have wills.

Well I'm 40 so it's not a huge concern right now.

Also live in Scotland, can just write what I like in crayon on the back of a Weetabix packet and it's a will.

And hurt the parents, who are in their 80s. Think about it.

My parents are supported by me and my sister - we’re all they’ve got for solid support. My brother would come in and screw it all up.

It’s been emotional tonight but I had to make it very clear how the land lies. It needed to be said.

My dad has sent the ‘we can’t help’ message so we’ll see what joys tomorrow brings.

And hurt the parents, who are in their 80s. Think about it.

NO - their actions have consequences and this needs to be made clear - yes it might hurt them but its their decision to allow  the scrounger in that is the cause

Not having LPAs in place is not a concern - until 'something' happens and then it's too late.

Well I’m 40 so it’s not a huge concern right now.

It should be.  If you are married its not such a concern as your wife / husband would be able to take decisions for you but its for the worst case scenario ie you get squished by a car and are no longer able to make decisions for yourself does anyone know your wishes?

I have POA for my family and I am getting one done for me

My parents are supported by me and my sister – we’re all they’ve got for solid support. My brother would come in and screw it all up.

It’s been emotional tonight but I had to make it very clear how the land lies. It needed to be said.

My dad has sent the ‘we can’t help’ message so we’ll see what joys tomorrow brings.

I'm glad.

NO – their actions have consequences and this needs to be made clear – yes it might hurt them but its their decision to allow the scrounger in that is the cause

I think that is an incredibly immature attitude.

Yes I'm married, we've had that discussion.

It's the parents I'm more concerned about 🙄

No ransos - its about sending a signal that you are not accepting the enabling of an abuser.  Doing what you suggest allows the parents to rationalise that its all OK and perpetuates the enabling.

Its also to protect the OPs mental health.

No ransos – its about sending a signal that you are not accepting the enabling of an abuser. Doing what you suggest allows the parents to rationalise that its all OK and perpetuates the enabling.

No, it's about you always having to be right.

Anyway, I'm not going to trash this thread anymore. You do what you like.

If you are married its not such a concern as your wife / husband would be able to take decisions for you

I’m pretty sure they can’t.

Id have to check that.  Next of kin is usually the person they go to for discussions?

Edit :

Does my next of kin have legal rights?
No. A medical next of kin is not defined in UK law.

This means your next of kin cannot give consent to providing or withholding care.

Choosing a next of kin is not the same as appointing a Lasting Power of Attorney. A Lasting Power of Attorney can make health and care decisions for you if you lose mental capacity. For more information, see our advice booklet

What does a next of kin do?
They act on your behalf if you are unable to communicate due to illness or being unconscious. They will be asked for advice and guidance on your wishes.

So you are right Kramer.  apologies

tj - the same also applies to property and financial affairs but there is one very important difference.
A donor can request/instruct their attorney(s) for property and financial affairs to act on their behalf even if the donor hasn't lost mental capacity.
This is why a solicitor will ask a donor to consider including specific additional instructions; it's also referred to in the guidance notes.

I think there are difference in Scots and English laws on this.  here we have IIRC Welfare POA and Financial POA separated tho they can be combined.

Again apologies for any confusion I caused

Everyone should have a Welfare POA for sure particularly if like me your wishes would not always align with the medical consensus.  Its also very important to have the discussions around what your wishes are and to have advance directives in place as well and to check your local laws

In Scotland the laws around this place great emphasis on the patients wishes and i was used to getting guidance from the NOK as to what those wishes are which is the source of my confusion

My post re property and financial affairs also applies in Scotland to continuing power of attorney arrangements.

yes - I wasn't disagreeing.

Perhaps you and your brother should have a little camping holiday away together,just to mull over some things.

Beachy head is nice in summer.

Something not dissimilar happened to my gran with my uncle. Grand parents had a nice wee house up a lane in rural Tipperary. Grandad had a severe stroke, state help build a ground floor extension. Drunken uncle Jimmy moved in to help, having been thrown out of his own house.
Queue abusive calls to my mum when she tried to speak to her mother and him trying to stop her from entering the house when she went across, same for my 4 other uncles.
In the end there was nothing in the estate and not a single item left the house to any of the family and the house was sold. It was some funeral and wake but Jimmy didn't turn up

LOL squirrelking.

Like I said, "I'll do it when it's too late".

If he does like to sail close to the wind there is the risk of credit fraud.
New house , new address potentially provides a route to credit he may exploit if he gets in the door. Apply for loans or credit cards in your father's name for example. If his credit rating is ok and your brother's is poor.
Once in he will be impossible to remove.
Is there any chance of your parents moving to a retirement place or smaller flat to remove the potential going forward?

Is there any chance of your parents moving to a retirement place or smaller flat to remove the potential going forward?

Zero - I've been on at them to do that for over ten years. They're too old to move now, the stress would kill them off.

They've been in the same house since 1982. It's far too big for them but them have a cleaner and a handy-man who does the heavy work.

I have got them to agree to getting POA sorted though. So that's a step in the right direction.

Well done on the PoA. I suggest you fill in the forms and post off asap before anyone has the chance to change their minds or drag their feet. There is no benefit in seeking legal advice so long as you are vaguely competent at form filling, it will just add cost and waste time.

It will still take many weeks before they are officially registered and ready for use.

As there's been a small amount of confusion, just to clarify there are two powers, one relating to health and welfare that only operates if and when the donor loses capacity to make decisions - that's relevant for care homes, health care, end of life stuff, especially in the case of dementia etc. The other relates to property and financial affairs and can come into effect immediately it is set up, enabling the attorney to do stuff on the donor's behalf (with permission!) to take some of the pressure off them. The financial one can also be arranged to only come into effect if and when the donor loses capacity, but this is choice not a requirement as it is for welfare.

In Scotland the two documents can be (and frequently are) combined, in England they are fully separate though in practice often set up at the same time with the same attorneys.

My wife and I have been using PoAs for our parents under both systems in recent years.

One very important warning: do not set up the attorneys to act "jointly", unless you are very certain that this is appropriate for you. "Jointly and severally" is what you want. The forms do warn against this mistake but people still make it. "Jointly" means all attorneys have to agree on every detail of every action, no-one can do anything by themselves, which cripples their ability to act effectively. "Jointly and severally" means any one attorney can do stuff by themselves.

It sounds to me like the best arrangement would probably be for each parent to list their spouse, and you and your sister, as joint attorneys, but that's obviously their/your business.

Just to add to the sage advice from thecaptain above; I did the financial LPA for my wife and I last night. I have been putting it off for ages as I thought it would be complex. It took me less than 5 minutes to do both!

I guess the Health/Welfare one may be more onerous as the questions are going to be 'heavier', but each application has to be completed separately, so I recommend doing the two Financial ones first.

Power of Attorney

Does not confer a veto to the attorney over decisions made by the 'ward' (best term I could think of). If they still want to do daft stuff like give the house to a stranger then so be it. LPA simply gives official status to the attorney to represent the ward in dealings with businesses or institutions as if they were the ward.

The equity release company won't like it, the terms of any equity release are that the loan is repayable in two circumstances. When the second (surviving) spouse enters long term care or when the surviving spouse dies. The equity release company can then enforce their charge over the property ensure it is sold and get their money back. 

If your brother were in the property, especially if he has been there for any period of time, they wouldn't get vacant possession of the property and would then have to take enforcement action to evict him and his family, which could be difficult if he has accrued and rights of residence and especially if he gets any sort of beneficial ownership of the property in your parents wills.

I am not an equity release lawyer or broker, but work in an adjacent sector - Wills and LPAs and my experience would indicate that the equity release company would have terms and conditions in place that prevent him and his family moving in, notwithstanding the fact that they are family, for the reasons outlined above.

They couldn't stop them moving in, but what they could do is require an immediate repayment of the loan in full because of the change of circumstances. Read the Ts & Cs carefully and make sure that your parents are aware of the consequences. 

Does not confer a veto to the attorney

Certainly but it does allow them to do things like check bank accounts for unexplained outgoings and provide a framework for as and when the donor (I think that is the correct term) cannot manage things themselves. It's not a complete solution for the OP but may be a useful part of the puzzle.

This means your next of kin cannot give consent to providing or withholding care.

That is interesting.  In the summer of 2022 when I had a brain haemorrhage and was unconscious and expected to die during surgery, my wife was asked to sign a consent form prior to my surgery.  As I was unconscious, I was unable to do so.

My impression is that this sort of stuff isn't always done by the book but is quite frequently handled on the basis of trust and common sense, which has advantages but also drawbacks. FiL (with dementia) is currently in hospital and my wife had quite a struggle getting anyone in authority to tell her what is going on let alone actually ask her opinion/consent for his treatment which he isn't really capable of understanding himself. They didn't even know what to do with the on-line PoA authority thingy (which has been in operation for a few years now).

jamj

~she should not have been signing a consent form.  What should have happened is that her views as to what your views are should have been ascertained and this used to inform the medical teams decision

In those circumstances consent is not needed under doctrine of necessity ( I think its called).

@thecaptain

Thanks for that PoA info about - point noted about 'Jointly and severally'.

I will have sole PoA as my sister lives too far away to be of any use in day to day matters. She is fine with this.

I said I could help with forms but they want to do it through a solicitor as they 'want it done right', so solicitor who did their wills is coming to visit them next Thursday.

For those who are curious this was the message I got my dad to send last night...

[i]XX and XX...

After your visit yesterday we have thought of nothing else today and we’re sorry to say we are not in a position to help.

The terms of our equity release do not allow it and we have taken advice from Citizens Advice and they have said it would seriously jeapordize our benefits and put us in difficult financial position. Which is not something we are prepared to do.

We also have to think of our health - neither of us is mentally or physically strong enough to deal with this at our time of life.

This has been a very hard decision to make and we’re sorry this is not the news you wanted to hear.

All the best
M&D[/i]

really good message that

~she should not have been signing a consent form.  What should have happened is that her views as to what your views are should have been ascertained and this used to inform the medical teams decision

In those circumstances consent is not needed under doctrine of necessity ( I think its called).

She didn’t sign it.  She was asked to.  She’s more informed about consent than the consultant and surgeon involved.  Something to do with her role as an RMN and multiple senior roles in the NHS.

I’m actually not surprised to be honest, I knew more about information governance and GDPR than the nurses on my ward following cardiac surgery.  I was initially told that I had could not see my care plan and that I had no right to see my medical information.  Probably best not to tell that to a patient who managed GDPR compliance for 80,000 people and understood capacity…

Certainly but it does allow them to do things like check bank accounts for unexplained outgoings and provide a framework for as and when the donor (I think that is the correct term) cannot manage things themselves. It’s not a complete solution for the OP but may be a useful part of the puzzle.

Still not quite right - as long as the donor is of sound mind, they can make any financial decisions they want like donating money to Nigerian princes and you won't get any sight of that.

It does allow you to deal with the bank in the aftermath but even then, there's a process to go through and if the donor is still considered compos mentis and doesn't want your help, you don't have the authority to wade in regardless.

My sister and I have PoA in place for our Mum (who is still considered to have all her faculties) so while she can ask us for help outside of the PoA, neither of us has any right to see any financial affairs at the moment.

Zero – I’ve been on at them to do that for over ten years. They’re too old to move now, the stress would kill them off.

They’ve been in the same house since 1982. It’s far too big for them but them have a cleaner and a handy-man who does the heavy work.

I have got them to agree to getting POA sorted though. So that’s a step in the right direction.

Good work on the message to the brother and the PoA.
As he lives in the same village, is there any risk he could simply turn up and let himself in or knock on the door, barge in and begin helping himself?

Be worth notifying the police or council if you feel there's a safety risk there - or if he has keys, change the locks.

My Mum is in the same situation re the house. Lived there 40 years, too old and frail to move now, place is cluttered to **** but she's still coping so... 🤷
Thankfully just me and my sister though, no-one else to screw things up or appear out of the woodwork and start demanding stuff so she's reasonably well looked after in that respect.

Best of luck.

My sister and I have PoA in place for our Mum (who is still considered to have all her faculties) so while she can ask us for help outside of the PoA, neither of us has any right to see any financial affairs at the moment.

Of course you don't have the *right* to demand sight of finances if the donor doesn't consent (you can't legally do anything at all if the donor has capacity and withholds consent), but with their consent (and assuming the PoA was set up to allow for this - see previous comments about financial PoAs) you do have the power to ask the bank for details of transactions for checking. I agree you can't block a transaction that the donor has performed.

Without the PoA in place and verified the bank may well flatly refuse to cooperate regardless of whether your parent asks for help "outside of the PoA". The PoA is the specific structure established to enable people to ask for help in these situations and authorise the attorney to act on their behalf. The bank will have a process for handling it. I'm not saying rules don't get bent a bit in practice.

Jamj - that does not surprise me - I have had similar issues with senior nurses 🙂  its fun to quote policy at them when they try to breach it

Well - I'll go to the foot of our stairs!! 😱 😱 😱

My dad has just texted to say he's had a very understanding message back from my brother and it seems all is good!

My parents seem very relieved.

As he lives in the same village, is there any risk he could simply turn up and let himself in or knock on the door, barge in and begin helping himself?

It's like bloody Fort Knox! Locks on every internal door, alarms, buzzers the lot. It's only missing a watch-tower and some razor wire! 🙂