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Evening all,
I shall try to keep this as brief as possible.
I am going into hospital for surgery a week on Monday and I think I’ll be off for at least 2 weeks, probably more like 4 as I have a physical job.
I’m getting nerve, tendon and soft tissue repair on my left elbow and carpal tunnel surgery.. I know..lucky me.
I have been offered another position with less hours and no manual labour. I was due to take some holidays to cover the recovery time which is fine by me, so I have taken 2 weeks off, I managed to negotiate a further 2 weeks off on full pay as going onto SSP would cause me real financial hardship. They revoked my contractual sick pay as I had an absence in June for joint pain and burnout. I appreciate I am not entitled to a further 2 weeks full sick pay but as I feel the injury was caused by work I faught tooth and nail to get the extra time off.. and it is appreciated.
Our holidays run from July to end of June so I obviously haven’t acrued enough days to take them as holidays.
My question is.. if I hand in my notice on Monday will they still pay me the SSP? I’m guessing they have to? If I delay handing my notice in they will obviously want paying back for the holidays and extra time off.. which is right and proper. I suspect I am correct in my thinking but just want to clarify.
I feel pretty crappy about potentially doing what I’m about to possibly do as I know they have stuck their necks out for me to offer me the extra time off. But honesty is the best policy isn’t it?
Please clarify my thinking or add anything you think is relevant.
I appreciate any expertise.
Get some proper advice from people who know what they're talking about - CAB would be a good start point.
It sounds like your injury is reportable under RIDDOR if caused, or aggravated by your work.
Have a Google and consider if this would increase your rights for sick pay etc or could result in a less manual role at your current employer? (I assume the new role is with a new employer?)
Typically, if you are handing your notice in then holidays would be pro rated depending on how many months left until they reset (ie if you get 24 days holiday then 2 a month, so if you packed in 6 months into the leave year you'd only be allowed 12). Anything over in our place is clawed back from last payslip.
Sounds like the SSP was negotiated so that will be different and possibly 'managers discretion' type thing.
If you were injured due to work and have to 'medically retire' (and I'm using that term loosely) then as said you'll have RIDDOR to think about and that will certainly affect the outcome.
But yes, good advice is required - any union where you work?
It sounds like your injury is reportable under RIDDOR if caused, or aggravated by your
Nothing in the OP's post suggests it's RIDDOR reportable.
Have you had your cake and eaten it yet?
It sounds like your employer has tried to accommodate your needs so why not repay that? Just a thought.
No union unfortunately, it’s every man for himself in reality. I didn’t have any issues with my elbow prior to working there but I don’t want to go down the route or RIDDOR as I am on good terms with them and would like to keep it like that.
Johndoh.. can you expand on your comment or did you not read the bit about me being appreciative of what they have offered. It’s not a case of paying it back, I don’t want to go down the route of taking what isn’t mine in the first place.. hence asking for clarification on my thoughts.
Take the 4 weeks sick pay whilst you mend etc.
Hand in your notice start at new job…
Each man for themselves!
*though I would seek advice in reality specially as you don’t to involve Riddor.
May the force be with you !
Nothing in the OP’s post suggests it’s RIDDOR reportable
Occupational diseases
Employers and self-employed people must report diagnoses of certain occupational diseases, where these are likely to have been caused or made worse by their work: These diseases include (regulations 8 and 9):
carpal tunnel syndrome;
severe cramp of the hand or forearm;
occupational dermatitis;
hand-arm vibration syndrome;
occupational asthma;
tendonitis or tenosynovitis of the hand or forearm;
any occupational cancer;
any disease attributed to an occupational exposure to a biological agent.
If it results from a single incident i.e a workplace injury then it would also come under the 7 day incapacitation.
(Noted that the OP doesn't want to pursue this route)
What has RIDDOR got to do with anything? The employee doesn't report it, the employer does. The employee wouldn't know anything about it. Even if reported, nothing happens it just goes on the HSE's stats unless it's a very serious injury (amputation or loss of eye) or a death.
Also as long as you are employed SSP is payable. Notice period doesn't affect that.
https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/eligibility
That’s what I thought, as always STW answers my question.
It’s already a sore subject with them as I did say it was the job that has caused the issues, I had no previous pain in the area until I started working for them. It’s domestic fuel deliveries, so lots of pulling the delivery hose. It’s a difficult situation as I really like my job and the people I work with, we are a small depot miles away from head office so nobody breathing down your neck every day. But I have to think long term as I can’t see myself doing this job in 5 years.
One other thing OP, I wouldn't hand your notice in until you have to.
If anything goes wrong with the operation and you take more time to recover than expected, your contract with your existing employer will still end at the end of your notice period and you will get no SSP. Your new employer won't start paying you until you start work with them, and as you voluntarily gave up your job benefits will be very hard to get.
Thanks for the heads up mate. I need to give 1 months notice so if I’m going I need to do it next week really as I finish next Friday for the operation/holiday.
New job is office based though so even if recovery takes longer I should manage to at least start my new role in some capacity.
Excellent! Good luck with the OP and the new job. 🙂
👍
Your holiday pay will be what it is, if you have accrued more holiday than already taken it will be paid, if your recovery holiday exceeds what you've accrued you will pay it back.
Something doesn't smell right over contractural sick pay being removed after one absence in June, either they are an awful employer or you arent telling us something.
Regarding the injury being work related, there does sound to be more of a casual link between the work and the injury but you'd need proper professional assessment of the injury and working practices to pursue a claim. However looking at the causes of carpal tunnel, work related activities are only one of many. I'd also question how frequently you pull out the hoses, 10 times a day? Big difference from someone working on a machine where they repeat the same movement 200 times a shift or a power tool operator constantly gripping a vibrating tool.
As others have said I'd talk to my new employer about start dates being dependant on recovery and hand your notice in as late as possible. Unless you hand your notice in post recovery expect to be on SSP if you don't have holidays to cover it.
If they're dicking you about over sick pay for an injury which if not directly caused by work has almost certainly been exacerbated by it, and not only do you not want them to report it to RIDDOR (which I thought was a legal requirement?) but you aren't talking with an "injured at work" solicitor right now, then with all due respect I think your sense of loyalty to them is somewhat misguided.
@spooky_b329 I'm aware of the requirements of RIDDOR. I've been responsible for submitting RIDDOR reports for longer than I care to remember. Other than the OP suggesting that his ailment was caused by work there is no proof of that, at this time. Until there was an assessment of the OP's ailment by an OH professional which made the direct link to it being caused by working practices, then it's not reportable.
not only do you not want them to report it to RIDDOR (which I thought was a legal requirement?)
It is. If a direct link can be made to the injury being proven to the work.
In what way is my sense of loyalty misguided? That’s a genuine question by the way.
There is 70 metres of hose on the tanker, it gets pulled out and reeled in a minimum of 20 times a day I would say. You pulling the hose up to heating oil tanks, over walls, round corners, up hills, over fences and everywhere in between.
The absence in June was a culmination of feeling totally burnout after no time off since last October, joint pain and depression. I returned to work for 2 days then tested positive for Covid so that was more time off.
They requested access to my medical records which I refused as I feel they should be private and confidential. I did however get a letter from my doctor stating I had been in numerous times complaining about my elbow and wrist and that I had cortisone injections to try and get some relief.
What medical records, ones held by the GP? Not something wed normally do , we'd normal get an independent occ health assessment, GP's opinions dont always translate well into work place assessment.
Although if you were telling them you were suffering from depression and burn out but then refused a request for evidence to support it I can see them being a little suspicious. Was the Covid confirmed with a test?
The action of pulling out hoses should have a properly documented risk assessment, you be in your rights to see that.
I can see where you are coming from with a lot of this but I've also been on the other side as an employer when we've had people who've generally be a pain to manage suddenly start to take lots of sick leave and not co-operate, not saying that's you but there are 2 sides to these thjngs. I'm still surprised by the removal of ckntractural sick pay, normally takes a lot to lose that, being off sick is not one of them, how long do you normally get on full pay if it's not revoked?
In your case I'd get a start date set with your new employer which should give you a good chance of a full recovery and work back from that for handing your notice in. Accept you may be on SAP for some of the time. Don't piss your new employer around, you've built up zero loyalty and need to get through probation. Carpal tunnel can have a serious impact on a desk based job as well.
I think perhaps you've just answered your own question.
They aren't looking after you.
Ok Cougar, I get where your coming from now 👍.
Yes it was my GP records they were after, it wasn’t the first time I mentioned to my line manager I struggle with my mental health sometimes. So they knew it was something I have to work hard to keep on top of.
I can see it from their point of view aswell, but I did think it went a bit south after I refused access to my medical records. But I was adamant that they stay between me and my GP, I didn’t make a big thing of refusing I just said I wasn’t comfortable sharing my private medical history. But I did give them a signed letter from my docs with the elbow diagnosis.
They offered me a later start to get me back to work which was great and really helped me, but that was taken away, they very kindly offered my counselling which I attended and again it really helped.. but they pulled the funding for that aswell with no warning or explanation. I found out from the counsellor. This all happened after I said I wasn’t giving access to my GP records.
Anyway.. I’m not sure how relevant all that is.
But as I mentioned before, I don’t really want to rock the boat, I’m happy to have a job offer after 7 months of applying for stuff.