[Closed] London vs the rest of the UK, current situation...

London sucks. The rest of the country is much nicer.

HTH

Here we go again. Cue all manner of chippy Northern monkeys banging on about how terrible London is, ad nauseam.

Londons booming!

I'm getting the feeling there's more work in London than around here

Unless you work in a few select industries that is always the case.

What's London?

I read somewhere (probably daily mail) that a large portion of London council tax is distributed up North.

The Government of the day will always implement economic policies which favour the SE and London. Therefore, I'd expect the impact of any "recession" to be felt less there and for that area to recover quickest.

I live in Hampshire, which seems to be doing pretty well recently. I'm sure I heard unemployment was actually dropping slightly round here recently. Can't remember the facts. House prices are stable or possibly climbing a tad too I think

The rest of the country is much nicer.

You obviously haven't gotten around much if you think the est of country is much nicer. Many areas on curtain metrics are "nicer" than London but the entire country? You must be mad.

Have a look at which councils the Gov hit with the biggest cut backs and those that it hit with the least.

I knew this would turn into a North/South STW-special!

been sunny down here for the last 6 weeks too!

Have a look at which councils the Gov hit with the biggest cut backs and those that it hit with the least.

Biggest cuts = Liverpool, Birmingham, and Hackney
Least cuts = Dorset, Westminster and Chelsea

Make of that what you will

curtain metrics

do the windows in the poor areas not have curtains - or do they sell them down south when times get rough?

Make of that what you will

Dorset, Westminster and Chelsea don't waste as much money and are more efficiently run and therefore need less cuts, perhaps....

London seems to be doing ok. All of my family and friends who work up there are doing ok and safe in their jobs. It's hard to generalise though with a mega city that has more people living in it than Scotland.

Deary me flashy, I think you'll find that regional bureaucracy and wasteage runs through local government per say. I'd save your political points scoring for a real issue. Like the environment, or the NHS, or the privatisation of the forests.... 😉

Dorset, Westminster and Chelsea don't waste as much money and are more efficiently run and therefore need less cuts, perhaps....

I suspect that's exactly it Flashy. Nothing to do with which way their populace vote at all. In the latest weeze from Dave and chums, They'll soon be allowed to keep all their business taxes soon too, greatly increasing the already massive funding gap. Again, not at all a case of the Tories looking after their own, to the total exclusion of everyone else, at all 🙄

Biggest cuts = Liverpool, Birmingham, and Hackney
Least cuts = Dorset, Westminster and Chelsea

Make of that what you will

Thought Manchester was one of the biggest cut areas too.

I'd imagine the situation is worse up here, as local govt traditionally employs a bigger proportion of people, and that's being hit hard. I'd still rather live up here though thanks, money isn't everything.

[img] [/img]

Very hard to generalise I'd imagine - I suspect people's perceptions are going to be more skewed by what people and their friends/ family are seeing and doing, rather than real local or regional trends which are quite subtle in the great scheme of things.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Here we go again. Cue all manner of chippy Northern monkeys banging on about how terrible London is, ad nauseam.

Attitude like this is a large part of why we dislike London. Chippy? You're not important enough to designate anyone as chippy. If you were, and did so, you'd still be a poor excuse for a gentleman.

From a Northern monkey in That London.

Leaving aside the aspects of life that you didn't ask about.

London appears to relatively unaffected by the economic downturn. I visited friends in Sheffield and Cornwall recently and both areas appeared to have been hit far, far worse. Put it this way it's easy to forget that there is a problem at all in London.

If you were, and did so, you'd still be a poor excuse for a gentleman.

And that is a direct hit

🙂

northern monkey living and working in Central London
there is a distinct feeling that we're protected here in London, but that might be the lack of media reporting on things outside of the M25 which I just assume is doom and gloom, but the reality may be different.
the company I work for is doing ok, there were job cuts a couple of years ago, about 5%, which mainly went through attrition/ stop on new hires, so nothing major.
property prices have gone up where I live - at seemingly similar rates to 2007/8 - but that may have been down to a wise choice 8)
job availability seems to mainly be in banking, but then I do work in the city

+1 duntmatter

Another Northern monkey living in the South - CFH keep your Northernist comments to yourself!

Interesting how a significant part of the debt was used to shore up the financial institutions based in the Square Mile.

Anyway back to the OP - I would imagine that there are many more job possibilities in London and the South East - about a third of England's population live there and like it or not its where most investment has taken place and probably will take place in the near future. Again it largely depends on the sector you work in and what you do.

I'd still rather live up here though thanks, money isn't everything.

brooess - I know that you've really enjoyed your time up here. Is It worth staying and go job hunting a little further a field?

Much of the London economy is driven by the city - which has bounced back very quickly from recession - and money/tourism from abroad - which given the exchange rate - is doing well too.

It's certainly a bubble from the rest of the UK.

It's all the antipedeons(sp?) working in bars that keeps London afloat.

That and the M25 is a huge financial tractor beam.

Bunnyhop - Member
I'd still rather live up here though thanks, money isn't everything.
Here, here I couldn't agree more.
brooess - I know that you've really enjoyed your time up here. Is It worth staying and go job hunting a little further a field?

If I could I'd live in Manchester and London (and Pembrokeshire) all at the same time, they're all ace in their own way. Northern quality of life IMO is calmer and more friendly. There's the small matter that most of my friends are in London, and there's less drizzle. Drizzle = inside, sunshine = out riding.
And a much better chance of a the kind of work I do and therefore an income in That London...

My view is that much of the private sector is turning a corner, while the public sector is in a pretty parlous state and will be for another 3 years.

It may be hubris, but there is a certain reassuring permanence about the heart of London although it can feel detached from the rest of the country. During the worst of the meltdown you’d be hard pushed to spot any tangible differences, at least superficially.

However, whilst some in the City may have said 'crisis, what crisis?' this is certainly not true for all. I heard some pretty rough tales of people being laid off from grad schemes one day into the job along with a significant amount of redundancies across industries.

Things do seem to have changed recently though and my soliciting and banking friends certainly have no current cause for concern. The major consultancies are also doing well with a desperate public sector to prey on.

Construction also looks to be okay. Even in a recession it’s good to see a decent number of cranes about and buildings like the Shard coming on a pace. Perhaps press coverage is excessively sanguine – I read recently that the City will be looking to fill 11,000 jobs over the next two years – but I’m a glass half full kind of person. 🙂

Much of the London economy is driven by the city - which has bounced back very quickly from recession

Yeah funny that, I wonder why?

Things do seem to have changed recently though and my soliciting and banking friends certainly have no current cause for concern. The major consultancies are also doing well with a desperate public sector to prey on.

Great! 😐

Tbf it does rain a LOT in Manchester.

Dorset, Westminster and Chelsea don't waste as much money and are more efficiently run and therefore need less cuts, perhaps....

Stop talking like a c*nt flasheart. It's obvious that the councils that are getting bigger cuts are the ones with a much higher percentage of poor and thus a bigger requirement for council services.

Westminster tried to ship its oiks out a few years back. Westminster, Chelsea, Holland park and the surrounding areas are doing very well, since these areas are awash with middle eastern money brought here by individuals who "felt the need" to be somewhere else with someone else's money while their countries regimes are being toppled by their own country's oiks.

Some properties are going for many tens of millions in these area at the moment. As you can imagine these sort of people won't be using the full range of council services available.

Attitude like this is a large part of why we dislike London. Chippy? You're not important enough to designate anyone as chippy. If you were, and did so, you'd still be a poor excuse for a gentleman.

And that is a direct hit

I'd say so. Can Flashy recover from such a body blow, I wonder?

Not if he posts nonsense like this he won't:

Dorset, Westminster and Chelsea don't waste as much money and are more efficiently run and therefore need less cuts, perhaps....

Because of course you are such an expert on the social and economic problems suffered by many people in places such as Liverpool, Birmingham and Hackney, aren't you Flashy?

That's as naive and ignorant a thing as I've ever read you've said on here...

Well, as a Northerner of sorts(from Cheshire) and having lived in London Village for the past two years, there is a difference.

There are certainly differences between the two areas, house prices are about the only real difference I can see on that front - the rest of the cost of living is pretty much the same.

There are a fair few pubs closing down once you get out of the village center, but the middle doesn't seem to have really been affected that much.

There are more jobs in my industry, but thats hardly surprising considering it's construction of the rail variety. Certainly more permanent jobs as opposed to relatively short term contracts - which is pretty much all thats been on the Radar in the North West for the past 12 months or so.

You're not important enough to designate anyone as chippy.

When did I say I was? Merely my opinion that such threads tend to descend in to the normal chippiness of many Northerners who resent London. Many, not all, thankfully. Having lived in all manner of places, thankfully the vast majority in any place are welcoming decent folk. There do, in my opinion, seem to be a fair number who get very vociferous with their anti-London bile, which is what tends to manifest on these threads. Sorry if you don't agree.

Westminster tried to ship its oiks out a few years back.

I live in Westminster. It has many of what you term "oiks". I call them Londoners. I call them neighbours. I like it here. Oh, and if you have to resort to calling me a c**t, I'd say you'd lost already.

living in London alot of us thought London would suffer most cos it was a financial recession and not manufacturing like in 1980s but its turned out the opposite. Financial services seem to have bounced back silly quick and tourists have kept the west end hotels, shops and restaurants going really well the whole time due to the weak pound. Despite being wildly overpriced by most common sense yardsticks the house mkt here has not fallen and with low interest rates we all seem to be OK. Pubs are rammed! Rightly or wrongly London benefits from its internationalism. Even the crap stuff in Greece and middle east has helped in an odd way by diverting money over here where it is supposedly safe.

its pretty crap for graduates though. some lawyers are struggling. some builders are struggling. Overall we have been lucky for sure.

It's no use flashpants, that armour piercing shell from duntmatter has set fire to your engine room

You are listing heavily, make for port.

I live in Bournemouth (in "efficient" Dorset) but spend a few days a month in that London. On recent visits I'd say that there seems to be more energy about the place then back home. In my industry there is a better choice of jobs in London and the world appears much less recession weary. Thriving not the right word, but bouncing back is perhaps right.

However, in the worst of the credit crisis, London felt much much more depressing and the cuts were certainly deeper there. [Again, in our industry, and just from my perspective, before someone pipes up with an axe to grind.] Whole offices with half or more of the desks cleared out.

I note that only a few of the posts above are actually from those able to answer the original question. From my perspective London is now thriving vs rest of country, but rest of country tends to be insulated to some extent, less expansive growth when good, but less savage cuts when bad.

I'm happier by the sea, for the record.

You are listing heavily, make for port.

None in at the moment, will just have a beer instead. From London's Famous Greenwich. 🙂

She's holed below the waterline. Sinking fast.

MAN THE LIFEBOATS!

Cooduv bin a bit more thoughtful before posting something provocative like 'Chippy Northern Monkeys', Flashy. And Duntmatter, believe it or not, is a fayn of London, as well as being a totally nice feller. And it's true you do display a woeful naivety when it comes to socio-economic issues that affect many people in the Capital, and in fact the whole country.

I am not a racist. Some of my best friends are Northern. 😯

can someone explain this to me.

Westminster Band D council tax £687.62

Cheltenham Band D council Tax £1477.31

just curious... sounds really fair to me....

I live in Westminster. It has many of what you term "oiks". I call them Londoners. I call them neighbours. I like it here. Oh, and if you have to resort to calling me a c**t, I'd say you'd lost already.

If you are referring to me losing the argument, that is nigh on impossible when it involves you. In fact I had to pop down to the bookies to see what odds they were offering on you ever winning an argument when it involves anything social-political.

All bets were off. 😥

can someone explain this to me.

Westminster Band D council tax £687.62

Cheltenham Band D council Tax £1477.31

just curious... sounds really fair to me....

😯

WTF!!! I live in a small Lancashire town in an 'A' property and even with my 25% s.p.o. I'm charged over a grand???????????? How does that work????????

Right I've had enough.... I'm going abroad who's coming? Grab that bag for me.... no not that one... mind my straighters and my duty free's in that one....

mrmo - Member

can someone explain this to me.

Westminster Band D council tax £687.62

Cheltenham Band D council Tax £1477.31

just curious... sounds really fair to me....

Liverpool Band D council tax £1519.14

The average council tax for a band D household in 2011/12 is: £1,439 in England; £1,162 in Wales; and £1,149 in Scotland.

The average Band D council tax for 2011-12 will be £1,308 in London, £1,399 in metropolitan areas and £1,484 in shire areas

The average Band D council tax in each region for 2011-12 varies from £1,308 in London to £1,512 in the North East.

[url= http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/pdf/1870215.pdf ]http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/pdf/1870215.pdf[/url]

The public transport in London is enough to make me stay away...

You lot do realise that the valuations for council tax banding are identical across the whole country, and that house prices vary across the country? I'd be surprised if you got much more than a bedsit in band D in Westminster.

aracer - Member

You lot do realise that the valuations for council tax banding are identical across the whole country, and that house prices vary across the country? I'd be surprised if you got much more than a bedsit in band D in Westminster.

So given mrmo's example we are paying much the same for our services??

And given that many rural areas get sod all in the way of services they are worse off?

generally in London I'd say not much to notice the problems...job market seems ok, general economy seems okay. SW1A will soon be populated by cameron and cleg and no one else though....

House prices are 1991? for council tax purposes anyway, so have minimal relevance to current house prices. The whole system stinks. Conservative tries to fiddle the system for their benefit then labour do the same. It bears no relation to current house prices, earnings or anything meaningful.

But we wouldn't want a sensible tax system now would we.

Ugh, London.

I see why people like living there, but it's not for me. I went there today. It cost me £180 to get there (1hr 45min journey!), spent an hour battling my way across town on foot/tube, was faced with hundreds of grumpy looking people, and it turned my snot black.

And the guy in Evans didn't even check what length valve I needed on my inner tube! (I didn't go all the way to London for that, btw).

*rolls eyes shuts door waits for taxi to airport to leave for Azerbaijan*

Ugh, {insert northern city here}.

I see why people like living there, but it's not for me. I went there today. It cost me £180 to get there (1hr 45min journey!), spent an hour battling my way across town on foot/bus, was faced with hundreds of grumpy looking people, and it rained.

actually i quite liked manchester and birmingham, most of the others were full of short fat people wearing blue and white sportswear who quite possibly didn't partake in any 'sport'

Because everyone from up North is short.

tonyg2003 - Member

Much of the London economy is driven by the city - which has bounced back very quickly from recession - and money/tourism from abroad - which given the exchange rate - is doing well too.

Anyone have radio 4 on yesterday lunchtime? There was a debate about Scottish independence and predictable bunfight about whether or not the yookay heavily subsidises Scotland and NI. I was suprised to hear that [b]London[/b] is also allegedly doing very well (funding-wise) courtesy of the rest of the UK. There was no detail about how/why, but it seemed to be by the same measure that people bang on about when they moan about free prescriptions and university fees.

Genuinely suprised at that. 😕

I went there today. It cost me £180 to get there (1hr 45min journey!), spent an hour battling my way across town on foot/tube, was faced with hundreds of grumpy looking people, and it turned my snot black

It's not really fair to judge London on a hectic day trip.

I was suprised to hear that London is also allegedly doing very well (funding-wise) courtesy of the rest of the UK

At a guess it's co-incidental. The government are probably funding the National Opera, museums, galleries, universities, and probably a few startup business and so on. Many of which happen to be in London.

At a guess it's co-incidental. The government are probably funding the National Opera, museums, galleries, universities, and probably a few startup business and so on. Many of which happen to be in London.

Oh that's OK then.

Its no wonder that everything in this country with National in in its title is situated in London when there's litle but blind acceptance that it should be that way.

Merely my opinion that such threads tend to descend in to the normal chippiness of many Northerners who resent London.

I think you'll find it isn't just these mythical Northerners who resent the place. It's the rest of the nation.

This isn't North v South. It's London v Not London. London, like some knickerless siren, draws in as many and as much as it can from anywhere (UK or overseas), uses them and then feeds off more.

The prominence of London as an "international" city has become such that, while it ever prospers on the back of that image, the remainder of the the UK has to fight harder and harder still to avoid being obliterated by it. And remember, Not London, isn't a matter of geography - plenty of geographic London is, in fact, Not London.

I speak as someone born in London to less than wealthy English and Welsh parents, brought up in the home counties, and having spent the last decade and a bit living in The North.

Not London is not the poor relation, the mentally deficient brother to be hidden away from the world in an asylum. Not London is a rich and glorious pageant, but it is patronised and looked down on by London and the people who aspire to be London.

The sneering attitude of London to Not London - a BBC Northern England correspondent, I ask you - is enjoyed vicariously by those who like to sneer at those they have already abused.

Its no wonder that everything in this country with National in in its title is situated in London when there's litle but blind acceptance that it should be that way

a) it's not and
b) this is widely recognised when it does happen

But there's more associated business in London, and generally more customers. It's not cos it's London, it's because it's simply the largest conurbation.

Things do seem to have changed recently though and my soliciting and banking friends certainly have no current cause for concern.

That's good. They've helped out with this recession business massively, so I don't begrudge them doing well now. I'm just glad the Tories are giving them tax breaks to help them out, poor little blighters.

Yeah, I loved the whole George Osborne "we need to urgently re-balance the UK economy so we have less reliance on the financial sector and more emphasis on manufacturing"

This sounds sensible to me as it would help the regions where all the manufacturing was based anyway. But....

What's he done to backup those words? Handed the bankers a blank cheque of our money with instructions to carry on exactly as before. With the possible proviso that they should maybe think about hording more cash, and certainly not lending it to any business that might want to expand and create jobs.

Result: A narrow elite has given their friends in the city everything they could have possibly dreamed of, and more, while hanging the rest of the country out to dry.

Has anyone heard the phrase 'We're all in this together" pass a Tory's lips of late. Even the monumental arrogance of these ****s won't quite stretch to that phrase nowaday

Its the mid-80's again. Hurray!!!!!

We're all in this together, but some are more 'in this' than others.

Its no wonder that everything in this country with National in in its title is situated in London when there's litle but blind acceptance that it should be that way.

Well that's a bit blinkered, isn't it?

London: Massive tourist destination, 5 international airports, high speed rail link to Yerp. Pretty good location for a World-class venue I'd say. 20+ million people in London and the South East.

V where, Doncaster?

Anyway you are wrong, look:

National Media Museum
National Exhibition Centre
National Space Centre
National Railway Museum
National Motor Museum
National Motorcycle Museum
National Museum of Flight
National Football Museum

None of these are in London.

Handed the bankers a blank cheque of our money with instructions to carry on exactly as before

Did they not gain equity for that money?

Elf..... bad example with doncaster....plans are to make it an international rail port

Equity? Not yet.

But my concern is the total absence of reform in the sector. Its business as usual. In fact, its worse than before. The bonuses are an even higher proportion of earnings than before. In some cases they're being paid at even higher levels despite the banks posting losses.

Meanwhile lending to business has completely dried up. We're heading for, at best, stagnation, at worst a double dip recession that drags on for years.

I'm afraid there is now a two tier economy. 1. Central London and the City, which holds the government in its thrall, who's activities not only fail to help, but actively destroy the prospects of the rest of the country. ie: the tax-payer owned RBS lending (our) money to Kraft, for them to buy Cadbury's and put British workers on the dole, for us to pick up the benefit tab. Not to worry though. Lots of city lawyers made millios in fees. So what if a few thousand people in the regions lose their livelihoods/homes etc.

This rampant self-serving is utterly and completely obscene in its destructive capacity, and totally rabid self-interest to the exclusion of all else. It NEEDS to change. Not that that's likely with this lot in power!!

and... breathe....

Like it or loathe it London does have an incredible buzz about it. I lived there for years, I drive in a couple of times a month now for work. I wouldn't really want to live there again, it's too busy and now I'm used to clean air and countryside.

Say what you like about London and the people in it, and bankers and what have you, but The City generates huge amounts of tax revenue and is a massive contributor to the nation's GDP. These TAX THE RICH people don't understand business, or tax.

Oh well I don't know do I, I just picked a Random Northern Town.

Rochdale?

Hull?

[i]S****horpe??[/i]

Random Northern Town

Regionalist!!!! They're all unique in their distinctive local cultural identity Elf 😉

Oh God here we go...

...I'm a Racist.

There, I've said it.

😥

The City generates huge amounts of tax revenue and is a massive contributor to the nation's GDP

Just because it does, doesn't mean it should.

You know when, after a football match and the manager of the losing side is interviewed and tries to paint a rosy picture by saying that "inspite of us letting eight goals in, we [b]deserved[/b] to win", the same hubristic mentality exists in the City - lawyers look at their banker mates getting paid a fortune and think that they too [i]deserve[/i] to be paid vast sums of money.

The whole of the City justifies its vast remuneration on the basis that it thinks it [i]deserves[/i] it.

Not a good enough argument.

Oh God here we go...

...I'm a Racist.

There, I've said it.

I couldn't agree more. Not ever. You're ALWAYS right. We all know this.....

😛

Anyway you are wrong, look:

National Media Museum
National Exhibition Centre
National Space Centre
National Railway Museum
National Motor Museum
National Motorcycle Museum
National Museum of Flight
National Football Museum

None of these are in London.

Wow, really impressive, throw us a few bones why don't you 🙄

National Ballet ?
National Gallery ?
National (Britsh) Museum ?
National (recognised) War Memorial ?
National Football Stadium ?
National Rugby Stadium ?
Venue for [b]all[/b] State occasions ?

London: Massive tourist destination

Well share it out a bit and the rest of the country might benefit too 🙄

OMITN I don't think they are talking about the personal remuneration of the workers involved. It's what the industry does for business in the UK as a whole.

Well share it out a bit and the rest of the country might benefit too

The Romans tried but the Scots fought them off, happy in their barbaric ways. 🙁

So basically our whole economy is so reliant on these rich greedy tossers in the City that we have to bend over backwards to help them keep getting richer at the expense of everyone else. Yay! We are now apparently returning to Victorian levels of rich/poor divide in this country.

How do other countries manage that don't rely purely on a greedy and reckless financial sector?

How do other countries manage that don't rely purely on a greedy and reckless financial sector?

I'm afraid that other economies, ie Germany, are rather primative. They do a quaint little thing called 'making' stuff

Don't worry. It'll never catch on. The over-powerful financial sector and its friends in government are ensuring that never happens here

molgrips - sorry, looking back I wasn't clear in where I was getting to:

The argument of the importance of the City to our economy is the tax take (relatively largely personal, rather than corporation, as the corporates all do deals with HMRC on how much/little they're going to pay). When challenged, the next level of argument is "well, all the talent will leave".

the talent is only paid what it is because it can be and, since the Big Bang, we've had a financial sector (and the peripheral activities - accountancy, law, etc.) living high off the largely unregulated hog.

I'm afraid that other economies, ie Germany, are rather primative. They do a quaint little thing called 'making' stuff

Evan Davies made an interesting somethingion of the view that we really do need to make stuff AND save money. Not out of some antiquated sense of duty to labour markets of old, or avoiding debt, but because that combination (as seen so succesfully in Germany) forces the domestic producers to export. Whereas we in Britain don't save and seem addicted to imports.

The argument in favour of manufacturing was grossly damaged by the behaviour of trades unions prior to the Thatcher administrations - they gave British manufacturing a bad name. This was worsened by a workforce that was not, for whatever reason, encourage to innovate much more than we did. I wonder if that wasn't some post-colonial hangover we still had (and, to an extent, still do) that Bristish is inherently best. Thatcher did the rest....

So now, we don't amke anything on a large scvale. Sure, we do have manufacturing, but it's specialist and usually high tech/high value. I bet most of that is exported, but it just doesn't have the economic clout of large scale production or an economy based on financial services - FFS, are we destined to fiddle about selling each other services?

Christ there are some bitter people on here with economic nous learned, I can only assume, via The Sun.

Could you elaborate on that RJ?

Surely the Sun, as a Murdoch/Tory mouthpiece, would have us believe that we're living in a land of milk and honey, where the streets are literally paved with gold? All thanks to the selfless work of George, Dave and their friends in the city? And despite the best efforts of Gordon and now Red Ed and his pesky union friends, to impose communism on us and take us back to the late 70's?