[Closed] London fire brigade strike

just set fire to the houses of those responsible, its what they'd do on the continent and the EU will back you up*

*not true

With you all the way mate. Hope it can be resolved in favour of the extremely brave and selfless firefighters who do such a vital job. That such a situation can even arise, is disgusting in my book. The fire service is surely one profession where the needs and requirements of the workers themselves should be paramount, other any other political considerations.

This is why we need unions, now more than at many other times. To protect the rights of people who actually do the job, not the interests of management etc.

Thanks for the voices of support, it does unfortunately seem that the employment laws in this country are sometimes stacked against employees, there should be independent overseeing of any employer that uses section 188 of the trade relations act (I think that's the one)to force through changes in contract to ensure that there are proper negotiations.

For what it's worth I don't think a strike is a good idea, I take my job seriously and I really don't want to strike, I believe the people of London will be at serious risk with the inadequate back up service being put into place.

I wouldn't worry too much Bazz, according to Brian Coleman chairman of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, quote : [b][i]".. the only losers in all of this will be firefighters."[/i][/b]

So there you have it, from the top man himself........the only people who will suffer are firefighters.

If he's not worried, then I don't think you should be either.

I bet you never realised that your job was [i][b]that[/b][/i] unimportant eh Bazz ?

Although IIRC, in previous disputes firefighters have left the picket lines to deal with an emergency. Just leave commercial premises etc to burn. The responsibility will lie with those who instigated and provoked this strike by announcing the sacking of the entire workforce.

And after all, no one [b][i]has to[/i][/b] accept re-employment after being sacked. So by withholding your labour now, you are simply bringing forward a management decision by a few weeks. I can't see how anyone could have cause to complain.

Just to add to this, the meeting I went to last week regarding the closure of the department I work in (NHS rehab / recovery service) was attended by two union representatives (unison and the rcn), both of whom backed up the senior management and hr's statements without a word in our defence. Basically, I think they were there to instruct us in how far to bend over. A sad day for trade unionism.

It's bloody disgraceful that nurses, firefighters, cops, binmen and other essential workers are paid such low wages while certain desk jockeys earn so much. Good luck!

may I suggest that as their stately piles are engulfed you all dance upon your engines singing along to this:

easy to amend the lyrics to suit the cause too! 😀

Well Bazz there are quite a few people out there who are now unemployed who could do your job, just how hard can it be to sleep on night shift, to drive a big red lorry with flashing lights, to squirt some water at a fire, and walk around in half mast trousers.Yes i watched londons burning.
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So easy think the muppets who believe they personally pay your wages, the same muppets that depend on you and your highly trained and skilled collegues to drive at speed, to arrive at a fire, explosion, road collision etc, to make almost instant life saving decisions, to save property, to rescue people from high rise buildings on fire, the same people who have never experienced the hard work you do to extricate somebody injured in a road collision, who a few hours latter may be stoned by yobs, putting out a stolen car fire, the same fire officers who have carried a dead child out of a burning building, and then go home to their own kids.
We need you and they need you, they just havent got any insight into the job you do.Serious best wishes to yourself and collegues in the fight against management bullying.

Tandem Jeremy to the forum please now.

All I say is, is be careful the last dispute Fire Services didn't favour well from.

Unfortunately terms and conditions for many have worsened in recent years, we have had new less favourable working hours all but forced upon us
Firemen are well known for having a second moonlighting job in their long periods of days off and support may be harder to come by unless they are seen to be willing to change as others have had to

Project in praising public sector workers shocker! Get out of bed the wrong side?? 😉

Taxi

We've already changed massively, since the last Strike that led to a 'modernisation' of the fire services country wide, we're asked to do more and more for the same funding and wages at the moment and much less in the coming years, our pension contributions are very likely to be going up to the maximum 15% our retirement age is going up to perhaps 65!

let me just give you an idea what we're currently responsible for, and believe me the list isn't exhaustive

Fire's in houses, tower blocks you name it if it's on fire were responsible.
Road traffic collisions, motorways a and b roads and everywhere else
Rescues from height
rescues from water inland
Hazmat incidents
Terrorist incidents including the mass decontamination of the public
Animal rescues
Ship fires in our coastal waters
Aircraft crashes
Structural collapses
special service calls like lift rescues, automatic fire alarms, bariatric patients etc etc

Basically if it isn't nicking someone or medical treatment you can bet were going to be tasked with it, and expected to complete it in a professional and speedy manner.

It takes 5 years to fully qualify as a FF with written and practical assesments all the way. I'm in my 10th year of service and i'm still learning every week.

Yes most FF have a second job, is it wrong they're earning more for their families? or should they sit on their rears instead?

There's a saying in hampshire and i'm sure other brigades say it too

'You'll never be rich and be a firefighter'

But it isn't about the money for the majority of us.

Good luck for the future Bazz, hopefully the madness in LFB's senior management will be nipped in the bud before it seeps out to the 'shire brigades because our SMT our so keen to impress they'll happily sell us up the river too.

Al

'cos they need the money for this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11084406

In fact if you read down further, the new engine story is almost laughable - if it wasn't my money.

yes because it was the fire service that decided we needed to be regionalised despite it obviously not working, and we also decided that we needed these ultra hi tech unused control centres that have sat unused because the software keeps crashing and the designers keep asking for more money and time. Time and money that the politicians are more than happy to give them.

the new engine story is [s]almost[/s] laughable

Yes we had one of those, the most useless piece of sh1te I have ever seen. It got punted on ebay or whatever the fire service auction site is called.

and is this value for money?
[img] [/img]

I wasn't criticising the firefighters or belittling the work they do, just stating the fact that they need to win the public's support.

Do you still refuse to accept a change to your days off system?

If so that won't win favour with many people who now have to work different hours than they used to

Yes most FF have a second job, is it wrong they're earning more for their families

Frankly yes it is if they are not paying tax on the earnings

Do you still refuse to accept a change to your days off system?

No

Its the 24hr continuous work, that is a bit hard to swallow. When exactly do I see my wife and kids?

Doesn't sound fair at all to me, and really undervalues the dedication and courage of firefighters. You'd think they'd appreciate you eh? It's not enough to go into a possibly life threatening workplace? and you have to deal with Arseholes Behind Desks a well, always the ABD!

Bring in the german model. If the lazy don't want to work*, let's get people to do it for free.

*play darts and snooker all day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fire_services

if they're not paying tax on those extras then yes i'd agree with you, i don't know of any people not legit. For the record i have no second job.

Our shifts are being decided on, however i work 9-6 for 2 days then two nights 6-9, yes i have a 'stand down' period from midnight to 6, and i'm still expected to turn out in under a minute 24hours a day. I have 6 in 8 weekends interrupted by the shift, and therefore people on traditional 9-5 work patterns are hard to catch up with.

I like my shift it was a big reason for me joining the fire service, i enjoy my off time with my family and friends. I will resist the changes to my shift however if the shift changes it changes, it has to have a reason to change though and there hasn't been one that is more efficient or cost saving yet without i believ breaking european employment law.

This is rapidly steering off subject now, so i'll watch but comment no further.

Again Bazz and any other LFB's best of luck coming to a negotiated conclusion.

*play darts and snooker all day.

give it a f c u king rest you really have no idea what you are taking about. its not 1977 anymore. 🙄

Begining of the week the management took 35 fire engines out of service, to act as standby in case of an emergency in london town.

Wonder who has the relevant licence,training and skills to use the equipment on them in case of anything going on fire or bang

good luck bazz, wish you all the best. watching with interest, cos its bound to affect us in other brigades too if london are squashed.

the 'strikebusters' are being trained in the next village to us, and by all accounts theyre not up to the job, so itd be pretty dangerous if london was relying on them!

Frankly yes it is if they are not paying tax on the earnings

EDIT: much is often made of the time firefighters get off. our shifts are based on us working a 42hr week, on a '4 on 4 off, 5 on 3 off' pattern.

Wonder who has the relevant licence,training and skills to use the equipment on them in case of anything going on fire or bang

They will be handed over to [url= http://www.assetco.com/ ]http://www.assetco.com/[/url]

Tijuana Taxi - Member

Unfortunately terms and conditions for many have worsened in recent years, we have had new less favourable working hours all but forced upon us

This strike is NOT about "terms and conditions".

It is about the threat by the management to sack the entire workforce.

If the London Fire Brigade Commissioner withdraws the threat to sack the entire workforce[u] there will be NO strike[/u].

Try to pay attention Tijuana Taxi ..........it's particularly useful to do so if you want to comment.

"firefighters" spend less than 1% of their total time fighting fires but still get a pay premium for the risk (despite other more risky professions being paid less).

The ways of working are antiquated and need to be reformed - we have less fatal car crashes and less fires than 20 years ago but are told we still need the same number of staff and same level of infrastructure.

My only recent experience of firefighters was as a building manager. The fire brigade rescued someone from a lift after hours by jacking the lift car up with air cushions. They didn't bother to leave any notes to say they had been to the building, or bother to turn off the power to the lifts. The jacking up of the lifts resulted in the hydraulic fluid being forced back through the system which in turn caused the control system to fail and the hydraulic oil to start boiling - starting a fire the following morning. I fortunately discovered the fire when I arrived at work and found the whole place full of smoke - I turned off the 450v electrics before it got too out of hand and put the fire out.

Strangely, the local firefighters didn't take kindly to me pointing out that they had caused a serious incident by failing to use any common sense, or to me subsequently confirming that the maintenance company they were running in their "off days" (how many full time people run another "full time hours" business on the side?) would no longer be used by our firm - their lacsidasical approach to safety and reluctance to submit proper invoices (no, we couldn't pay cash) was in my mind ample proof that many firefighters are quite simply out of touch.

despite other more risky professions being paid less

Are you for real? Name one.

Your attitude towards firefighters is incredibly disrespectful. And what, based on the fact that they [i]may[/i] have made a mistake or more likely that your lift system lacks adequate safety systems in case of failure? Still got someone out of your crappy broken down lift, din't they? Maybe they din't turn the power off because they couldn't, or considered it might compromise other safety or security systems. I'm sure they would have considered such things.

Have a word with yourself... 🙄

Farmer John surely if the building was ful of smoke you should have called the fire brigade, and allowed proffesioanlly trained people to put the fire out, also why wasnt the fire alarm ringing its dong off

despite other more risky professions being paid less

what are other more dangerous jobs then,

My only recent experience of firefighters was as a building manager.

Says it all really.

Anyway.......I thought you were a farmer ?

And you're not happy with firefighters not spending more time fighting fires ? ..........well it's true that they spend a lot of time doing other stuff.

Like getting daft farmers out of trouble. From yesterday's news :

[url= http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20-cows-trapped-in-farm-slurry-pit-1.768283?referrerPath=news ]Cumbrian firefighters praised after rescuing cows from slurry pit[/url]

Your cows are knee-deep in shit Farmer_John ..................who ya gonna call ?

Ghostbusters ?

Are you for real? Name one.

Army

The army is an example of "more risky professions being paid less" ?

It appears that the basic pay for a private on operations is £25,887

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8232737.stm

I doubt whether that is much less than a lower rank firefighter.

And I don't suppose Farmer_John would approve anyway, as I doubt whether the average soldier spends more than 1% of their time engaging the enemy.

Firefighter pay scales 2009.

Trainee £21,157

Development £22,038

Competent £28,199

farmer john as a building manager i presume you know a lot about lifts ? i also presume you know about all the different operating systems lifts now have? given your little tale im also presuming you also know about how every single lift in the entire city you live in works ? now given lift rescues are such a small part of our job how the hell would i know every lift system and how it works in the whole of my city center ?

pay/risk wise as i served 8 years in the army before joining the fire brigade which i have been in also 8 years so i have some knowledge that i didnt just make up. pay wise im on slightly more now than i was in the army but it took me longer to get to the pay im now on and it was a lot harder to get to it too.

risk wise both jobs involve a lot of waiting as well as going into risky situations. ive been to war/conflict three times and had some tricky situations to deal with but ive probably been in more actual personally dangerous situations in the fire brigade. but both are dangerous at times and not at a lot of times. it also depends on your regt/deployment and your station too as a reme soldier would have less danger than a city fireman but an infantry soldier would take much more risk than a out in the sticks fireman. its all relative.

but its not all about risk/danger/money i did both jobs because i wanted to do them nothing to do with money.

also the 1% of time actually fighting fires point. if we were to go back to the old days where we could all play pool and sit on our cracks and do no fire saftey then the percentage would go up as its that work that has brought the fires down

our brigades current plans for next year will no doubt see fire fighting percentages increase anyway as we are set to close 12 stations and lose 15 appliances and terminate the contracts of all retained fire fighters. also at least 6 of the remaining stations are set to drop in fire cover to days only and bleeper cover from home at night. also govt funding for free smoke alarms is soon to be gone so we wont be giving them out anymore , gone already are the deep fat fryers and electric blankets due to funding despite clear indications of fire reduction

Old-school, heavily unionised workforce

vs

Old-school, 'Post Office' type management

Both need to grow up and work together - its a 'service' not a 'business'.

firestarter - Member

also govt funding for free smoke alarms is soon to be gone so we wont be giving them out anymore , gone already are the deep fat fryers and electric blankets due to funding despite clear indications of fire reduction

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

Weirdly an elderley customer said a few weeks a go, that a lady had a fire down the road in her kitchen, and that a nice fireman came knocking on the door dressed as a fireman, to ask did i have a fat fryer, (she said i didnt know what one was,but thought he was a real fireman as there was a fire engine on the street and a ambulance).

So i said no, a few days latter a nice fire man and his freinds turned up with a new deep fat fryer amd some smoke alarms all for free.

At the time i thought she was going a bit confused.

yeah project we used to do the alarms,fryers and blankets but only doing alarms this year. looks set to end soon tho

My next door neighbour, young lad a few years ago, had a deep fat fryer, came home a bit drunk , decided to do fried chicken.

So put the fryer on, sitting next to a plastic fridge freezer, with a microwave on top, about 5 foot up, fat fryer sets fat on fire,(i a;lways thought they where on a thermostat) melts fridge side, microwave falls onto fryer, and ejects all the hot burning flat into his kitchen, just as hes waking up he said, runs in and looks at it as the thick smoke gets him.

Luckily one of the neighbours sees the smoke, and knocks on my door to say that G,s flat is on fire, so i kick his door in and find him on the floor, drag him out, and await the arrival of the fire brigade.

So say the smoke and smell was thick and horrendous would not do it justice.

The muppet had took the batteries out of the smoke alarms fitted also wedged the kitchen fire door open, so the smoke spread, never take the batteries out and never wedge fire doors open.

also govt funding for free smoke alarms is soon to be gone so we wont be giving them out anymore

Several men turning up in a fire engine to fit a smoke alarm may be a bored housewives dream but I'm not sure it is a good use of resources.

well as people say we'd be sat on our arses otherwise wouldnt we 😉

btw surfer we have 5 blokes on the wagon and we leave one on the wagon and the other four go off with radios in two teams and do alarms we dont actually all turn up at one place. if we only have one booked in we go around knocking on doors to try make sure everyone has them.

we are slowly working thru the entire area we cover.

same here. we have output areas where every day we go knocking on doors to see if anyone needs smoke alarms or any advice. thats if we're not out on calls that is. and we still give out deep fat fryers, fire resistant bedding and strip adaptors. but only to those who we feel arent able to buy them themselves, such as elderly or absolutely skint.

its this work thats cutting the number of house fires down, and giving us less work. pro-active rather than reactive.

so..........a good use of resources? id say so. we do it during our quieter periods instead of 'snooker and pool'. (our station has no games at all just for the record)

oh, and our brigade is now trialling going out on certain calls with just 3 on a pump (fire engine)! it used to be 6! itll soon be one man turning up with a watering can! :-/

And that's not even mentioning the 'michelin star esque' kitchen at Poole fire station!

😆

itll soon be one man turning up with a watering can! :-/

or one of these.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-10736678 ]Fire Brigade motor bike[/url]

And that's not even mentioning the 'michelin star esque' kitchen at Poole fire station!

and what exactly has your point got to do with LFB?

Poole fire station really seems to irk you doesn't it for some reason.

Bazz,

Hope it gets resolved for you soon chap. Don't let the bast*rds grind you down.

It's bloody disgraceful that nurses, firefighters, cops, binmen and other essential workers are paid such low wages while certain desk jockeys earn so much. Good luck!

Absolutely.

As the son of a teacher and a nurse you have my absolute support.

Just sick of hearing you lot whinging about how hard your lot is!!

Go spend a night on your feet in A&E, then compare that to fitting smoke alarms!!

Think you might be shocked!

[b]project - Member[/b]

"despite other more risky professions being paid less

what are other more dangerous jobs then"

The top 5 dangerous jobs in Britain according to the HSE (and being a firefighter didn't even make it into the top 50) are:

1. Fisherman
2. Bomb disposal
3. Oil / gas rigger
4. Construction workers and window cleaners
5. Diver

Havn't the LFA being trying to negotiate changes for years?

I don't think there will be as much public sympathy this time around compared to the last strike, but thankfully they still have the right to strike. Who will be covering now the army won't be? Although that would have been a PR disaster for the firemen "Squaddies return from bloody fighting and now covering for striking firemen"

It appears that the basic pay for a private on operations is £25,887

That's not strictly true. There are additional operational payments which could equals that but ops are 6 months, so a private rank could never earn that amount of money in a year. I would also suggest that it's [/i]slightly[i] more risky living 24/7 on the front line in an operational theatre of war than fighting fires in london. The A1 (top) qualified private soldiers earn ~£18K, additional pay can be earnt through apecialist quals such as para, diver etc but is not anywhere near the operational top ups.

I agree with backhander. Out of area you are technically working 24/7 and therefore should get increased pay anyway (although i beleive you get added holiday on return) Furthermore, time served promotion seemed to have stopped. On the other hand there are added benefits in kind to official base pay. For example with my wife in the Forces and no married quarters available we pay rent on a normal rental property but at probebly 50% the going rate.

Well I just let you know before and you already have knobbed them off
When the fire brigade was on strike last time They was actually
attending emergencies but without there badges and numbers.
And the press kept sending crates of drink to the stations
hoping they was drinking them.

And no doubt even though they go on strike again they still
will go and attend Emergencies like they had done on there
last strike.

(although i beleive you get added holiday on return)

There will be little public support for this strike, when lots have reduced pay and are losing their jobs this just smacks of selfishness.

Farmer John , Bomb disposal doesnt usually cause a death in the uk, just in foreign countriesz we have illegally gone into, and the BD are usually volunteers.

Old-school, heavily unionised workforce

vs

Old-school, 'Post Office' type management

Both need to grow up and work together

So what's the solution.......a lightly unionised workforce - say about 50% in a trade union ?

Perhaps there is a need on your part to 'grow up' and come up with a sensible comment, rather than silly and meaningless sound bites.

The threat by the management to sack the entire workforce of the London Fire Brigade is an industrial relations strategy straight out of the 19th century.

If a trade union was to allow an employer to so blatantly threaten and bully their employees without offering any sort of opposition or resistance, it would be a tragic day for Britain and its long-term industrial relations.

The London FBU's stand against an aggressive macho bullying employer, has the potential of not just benefiting London firefighters, but also ordinary working people throughout Britain.

.

barnsleymitch - Member

Just to add to this, the meeting I went to last week regarding the closure of the department I work in (NHS rehab / recovery service) was attended by two union representatives (unison and the rcn), both of whom backed up the senior management and hr's statements without a word in our defence. Basically, I think they were there to instruct us in how far to bend over. A sad day for trade unionism.

Without a 'word in your defence' ? What [i]exactly[/i] would the point of them speaking in your defence have been
mitch ? ...... tell me.

Are you suggesting that senior management might have changed their minds about the closure of your department after hearing an eloquent speech by a union rep ?

No of course not - it would have achieved absolutely nothing. Other than perhaps providing you with a warm glow feeling.

Wake up mitch, trade unions have no power or influence in our society today. Management simply does whatever they want to do, without any regard whatsoever to the opinions of trade unions. The only way they can ever be pressurised to change their minds is by the trade unionists withdrawing their labour.

And thanks to laws which a former British Prime Minister gloated were [i]“the most restrictive on trade unions in the Western world”[/i], that is no easy task.

And another thing mitch, the RCN is no more a trade union than the BMA is, despite the fact that the Certification Officer claims they both are. The whole point of the RCN is to provide somewhere for nurses who don't want to join a trade union. What trade union anywhere in the world has a queen as its patron ffs ? Its there for daft Daily Mail reading nurses who relish the thought of being considered little Florence Nightingales. So crap wages and conditions, and a refusal to take any industrial action, helps to maintain that image of dedication to their "vocation".

Farmer John , Bomb disposal doesnt usually cause a death in the uk, just in foreign countriesz we have illegally gone into, and the BD are usually volunteers.

Penrod Pooch - Member

There will be little public support for this strike, when lots have reduced pay and are losing their jobs this just smacks of selfishness.

Saying, "I've had reduced pay and lost my job, so therefore you must too" smacks of selfishness to me.

I guess we must have a different definition of what "selfishness" means.

I guess so

Backhander you don't work everyday on a six month ops tour I've done enough to know first hand.

South Yorks tried sacking the whole brigade but backed down in the end so let's hope lfb does too

Well, I worked every day on pretty much every op I went on in some way or another. I know first hand, too.

Must have been unlucky then 🙂

In the current climate I think they are mad to strike tbh I'm just glad I'm still in a job, times are changing and so must we. Like it or not .

Sounds about right! 😀

Lol

[b]Strike update:[/b]

Firefighters chased the temporary cover, stopped them attending incidents and emptied the water out of the tanks of the fire engines:

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11618751 ]BBC News report [/url]

Firefighters opt to strike on November 5th:

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8086311/London-firefighters-to-strike-on-Bonfire-Night.html ]Telegraph Nov 5th strike[/url]

This doesn't really put the FBU or its members in a good light - they must be believers in all publicity being good publicity, even negative stuff.

stopped them attending incidents and emptied the water out of the tanks of the fire engines:

and where does it say that?

and this it what Asset co did to a fire appliance

[img] http://www.uk-fire.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2496&d=1288008212 [/img]

Footage has emerged showing a group of people surrounding a fire engine [b]returning to the fire station[/b] at Southwark Bridge Road, south London.

Farmer_John - Member

Strike update:

Firefighters chased the temporary cover, stopped them attending incidents and emptied the water out of the tanks of the fire engines:

BBC News report

And yet the BBC News report which you link to, says no such.

[i][b]"This doesn't really put the FBU or its members in a good light"[/b][/i]

You mean it doesn't put [u]you[/u] in a very good light........providing a link which doesn't back up your allegations.

And on that basis, I now serious doubt your previous allegations concerning the lift and the fire brigade.

It would appear that only the commisoner has stated that appliances were stopped on route to incidents, the police apparently are aware of no problems, and the commisoner has been well, less than honest with the press shall we say from the outset of this dispute, he sounds more and more like a politician everyday. I wouldn't believe a word he says. Overall public support in London does seem to be quite high, although even as an London fbu member i would say that those pictures are hardly our finest hour, one of the reasons i won't be picketing, along with the fact that i just don't agree with striking.
That said i do understand the strength of feeling the way our management has put their side in the press is that they are being quite reasonable and just asking for a small change in hours, the truth is daily threats, stoppages of pay that are almost certainly illegal, breaking health and safety protocols and generally making peoples lives miserable. Such is the depth of ill feeling at the moment that even if the brigade get their 12 hour shifts it could be years until normal service is resumed because for years they have relied on people doing things out of goodwill, and there is definitley none of that left.

Why doesnt the fire service just work normal 8 hour shifts and employ more unemployed people , sorted out unemployment and get a better service its a a winner.

Why doesnt the fire service just work normal 8 hour shifts and employ more unemployed people , sorted out unemployment and get a better service its a a winner.

It would cost more, we are losing jobs at the moment.

Because what they want is to shut stations at night and reduce fire cover, employ fewer people, who won't work for more than about 10 years and hence won't claim a pension, erode the watch system so that you won't know who your working with from one day to another and generally save money at the expense of the service the public get.

and employ more unemployed people

Yeah I think government policy is the complete opposite of that.

That's what the cuts are all about...........save money by making more people unemployed.

The theory is that the pittance someone gets on the dole, and the loss in tax revenue, is more than made up by the effect it has on forcing down wages and conditions.

The problem at the moment, is that the firefighters apparently don't want to play by the rules.

And the management of the London Fire Brigade has spent £millions in awarding a contract over a year ago, to a scab firm in anticipation of a strike which they knew they would provoke.

It would appear that cost is no issue when it comes to smashing a trade union and shafting the workers. There's all the money in the world for that sort of stuff.

Asset Co are on £12 million contract with LFB.

The employees of asset co were on £22 hr a Ff is on £12 hr.

How would you feel if you were told you had to sign a new contract by november or be sacked?

[url= http://www.fbu.org.uk/newspress/pressrelease/2010/10_25.php ]http://www.fbu.org.uk/newspress/pressrelease/2010/10_25.php[/url]

The theory is that the pittance someone gets on the dole, and the loss in tax revenue, is more than made up by the effect it has on forcing down wages and conditions.

I should have pointed out that whilst the theory does work very well in terms of forcing down wages and conditions (specially in the private sector), government spending still goes up, as Thatcher discovered when she doubled unemployment.

Thatcher got round that little problem by shifting the tax burden away from the rich and onto poorer people, whilst at the same time convincing them that they were paying less tax. The highest tax burden Britain has ever experienced, was under Thatcher.

I don't understand strikes...admittedly most of them seem to be led by unions who think they are doing it for the better but end up making it far worse for everyone...personally I just wouldn't strike - if you don't want to strike - don't.

I know very few people who are in dream jobs...I know a lot of folks who are in jobs where they have very little say over their terms and conditions and a lot of them (me included) are on worse conditions than they started on - but in this current climate - a job is a job and if it pays the bills then should we complain?

I do believe in making a stand but from the OP's first post, he said he doesn't want to strike...so don't...

he said he doesn't want to strike...so don't...

They had a ballot. And that's the decision the majority took.

If you want to [i]"do your own thing"[/i] I can't for the life of me, figure out what you're doing in a union.

Do you understand what the word "union" actually means ?

be fair ernie she also sold the family silver to pay the benefits whilst presenting it as an ideological judgement

Dick that really is a contradictory post.
Unions make it worse - you should check out the working condition in unionised an non unionised industries and countries and see that is just wrong.
If you dont want to strike dont if you want to accept poorer terms then do so just dont expect everyone to be as [delete as applicable] compliant/subserviant/flexible/realistic as you are whilst making your stand.

Good luck Baz. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution swiftly.