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Internment without trial?
It was deemed to be OK if you were Irish in the 70's.
Internment without trial?
If it saves lives dannyh why not?
If it saves lives dannyh why not?
Last time we tried it, it proved to be a great way to alienate even the more mild mannered of folk.
Internment without trial?
Nope, perfectly happy with internment [u]with[/u] trial - allied with a reeducation system based on the Highly respected Saudi model.
we just need to define the offence, e.g. 'Involvement in the foreign military campaign of a proscribed organisation'
Power to detain at border (citizens) for trial or refuse entry (non citizens) on suspicion of such, normal police powers of arrest and bail detention for those elsewhere
Yup, it's certainly not a long term solution. Mass renouncement of an incompatible ideology is the answer. But good luck with that!
we just need to define the offence, e.g. 'Involvement in the foreign military campaign of a proscribed organisation'
That's a whole lot of law that needs changing - basically redefining the definition of a combatant. Not that easy..
Internment without trial?
Works IF your intelligence is up to date. I doubt ours is, given that the Manchester attacker was known to intelligence and they still managed to louse it up.
[b]Please leave this thread to show respects to those affected or to discuss details about it. If you want to discuss what should be done about terrorism start a new thread. Thanks.[/b]
Sadly the fatalities is now 7. 🙁
Just learnt my sister's partner was there. Thankfully not involved but close enough to see it all too graphically. A nervous hour for my sister as they were unable to get hold of each other by phone- I guess the mobile systems were over capacity with people doing the same. He got home at 3am relatively shaken.
By an ironic twist my sister set off in the opposite direction 30 minutes later - she is involved in organ transplants at Guys and has a busy day ahead of her - and not in a good way 🙁
I would rather hope this isn't directed at me,
Absolutely not directed at you.
I see little difference to the IRA planting bombs in concrete rubbish bins
They gave warnings. A chance to clear out. These latest attacks are very different.
I do remember them giving some coded warnings, but some were either unclear, or deliberately put in such a way as to attract services to a location to evacuate people into the blast area of the actual bomb, then there was the bombing of the Horseguards, and I'm not sure all the wastebin bombs were given warnings.
I remember a bomb being left in the shared doorway of two shops at the top of Park Street in Bristol which went off without warning. One was a shop I went to quite frequently, too.
The IRA didn't stoop to these sort of attacks, but then they weren't suicidal, and they had sophisticated bomb-making capabilities.
Terrible news that so many were killed, there were French and Australian among the casualties as well.
🙁
8 minute responce in a crowded city on a saturday night, thats fantastic training and skills by all involved, sadly for all those involved the time will now go very slowly for a full recovery.
Here go Countzero a thread to discuss IRA vs Jihads.
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/terrorism
Crazy times ...
8 min response could be down to prior intel ?
Date and time and general area perhaps, just not the who and the location.
8 minutes is excellent and achievable without prior intel, remember there's a heightened alert so lots of armed offices patrolling cities.
I don't think the ira should be brought into these discussions. As I've said before unless you have lived in the hot spot areas in n.ireland at the time, you will have no idea.
convert - Member
By an ironic twist my sister set off in the opposite direction 30 minutes later - she is involved in organ transplants at Guys and has a busy day ahead of her - and not in a good way
Defiant tweet from Guy's. Business as usual. Awesome people as always.
[b][i]
"We're operating with enhanced security but services are running as normal. Please attend appointments as planned & allow more time to travel"[/i][/b]
https://twitter.com/GSTTnhs/status/871260586633572352
What is the motive of the attack?
What do they want?
Donald Trump has taken this oppprtunity to demonstrate what a class act he is:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/donald-trump-lashes-sadiq-khan-london-terror-attacks/
Are all coppers trained for the use of pepper spray, or whatever the latest equivalent is? If not, they should be, and should have been after the Parliament attack.
I feel that all those serving on the streets should be issued with more than a baton, a spray is effective against someone with a bladed weapon.
Pepper spray is not as effective against someone coming at you with a knife as you suspect if they have any element of surprise , more so if the spray is holstered. the speed that someone can strike you with a knife is pretty fearsome. We were practicing spray against knife at work last week, we all got knifed and that was with an attacker walking at us. As our instructor said raised heart rate and stress means a reliance on simpler motor skills such as a baton rather than a fiddly spray
Bring back the Crusaders
Kilo, good to know you guys are getting additional training. All your points taken onboard, but maintaining distance is one major aspect, as I'm sure you know, and that is very difficult with a baton. Maybe a more ergonomic design of spray can be rapidly brought into use, similar to the one US riot police use.
I feel that all those serving on the streets should be issued with more than a baton, a spray is effective against someone with a bladed weapon
Really ? So someone coming at you with a machete or a sword, and you think a spray is going to stop them ?
What if they get slightly clever and wear goggles and a face mask.
Maybe read the post above. Writing skills are not great right now, or anytime really, as on painkillers. It should read "can be" instead of "are"
Have you got a better, realistic solution, or do you think it's feasible for every copper to go through firearms training?
The spray with dye in it will block vision through a mask.
Bring back the Crusaders
🙄
We already did, how is that going?
''Events aren't moved by blind change and chance'' [Bush] has said, but by ''the hand of a just and faithful God.'' From the outset he has been convinced that his presidency is part of a divine plan, even telling a friend while he was governor of Texas, ''I believe God wants me to run for president.''This conviction that he is doing God's will has surfaced more openly since 9/11. In his State of the Union addresses and other public forums, he has presented himself as the leader of a global war against evil. As for a war in Iraq, ''we do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them.'' God is at work in world affairs, he says, calling for the United States to lead a liberating crusade in the Middle East, and ''this call of history has come to the right country.''
The stuff with dye in it will block vision through a mask.
Won't stop them thrashing around with said swords though will it .
Unfortunately we are talking about assailants who don't care about dying doing what they are doing .
I'm all for arming them, but that's probably another debate that would clog up this thread.
Problem with methods of trying to stop an attacker is it's a different game when the attacker is prepared to die.
As has been said in many places recently, what we need is to give them a reason to live.
Fair enough, to both above. I'm not talking about some conceptual form of protection where there is no risk involved. Totally agree with your last point DK. Peace, out.
Unfortunately we are talking about assailants who don't care about dying doing what they are doing .
Indeed. I think getting forces to the scene capable of taking them out and then taking them out in only 8 minutes is outstanding. From a strategic point of view there would be plenty 'softer' places in the uk to hit where they could get way more than 8 minutes of devastation for their 'martyrs'.
BIL also said there was some pretty impressive crowd control - just the right side of heavy handed but clearly organised and working to a plan. People ordered to move at speed with hands on their hands, other officers filming everyone. Dealing with a frightened public who had also got a few beers in them. Ambulances lined up like taxis ready for dispatch.
Depressing that we need this level of response at our disposal but as ever impressed with the dedication and professionalism of those doing the job.
Outside, John King, 66, had done well to grab a seat outside before the lunchtime rush. From Gravesend, Kent, he runs the family demolition business, “down Sidcup way”.He laughed at the idea he must be frightened. “I’m not frightened in the least,” he said. “I’m the gentlest, politest chap you’ll meet, but I’ve never been terrified of nobody in all my life and I’m not going to start now.
“Mum had been in the Blitz. Dad had been in a Japanese POW camp.” Now that, said Mr King, had been “hard, hard, hard”.
But as Mr King suggested, there had been a time when the bombs had been far, far more numerous, when public safety warnings had been infinitely more chilling: “Make sure your family have their gas masks with them night and day… Learn to put a baby’s gas helmet on quickly…”
Back then, he said, the shop windows carried signs saying: “Business as usual Mr Hitler”. Now, Mr King sipped his pint and chuckled: “That bunch of ****ing animals aren’t going to make me afraid.”
Really ? So someone coming at you with a machete or a sword, and you think a spray is going to stop them ?What if they get slightly clever and wear goggles and a face mask.
It's going to give you a better chance of stopping them then without it.
I do have to take my hat off to the police. Someone coming at me with a bloody big knife , and im basically unarmed, I think my first instinct would be to run like bloody ****.
A friend put this on Instagram, and with all due respect to those affected, this amused me no end, especially after what Mr Woppit posted!
[URL= http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp187/rcatkin/random/EFD6020F-F712-4843-87B7-9B24FD425EDA_zpsdqmzyr0f.jp g" target="_blank">
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp187/rcatkin/random/EFD6020F-F712-4843-87B7-9B24FD425EDA_zpsdqmzyr0f.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
similar vein, this made me giggle
8 minutes is excellent and achievable without prior intel, remember there's a heightened alert so lots of armed offices patrolling cities.
On Saturday evening, prior to the attack, we were discussing this and wondering if this then raises the likelihood of an attack in a rural area. To the best of my knowledge, the nearest armed police are 30mins away from where I live. Plenty of local gatherings where lots of people are converged in a smallish place. It is nice feeling like you lice is a rural safety bubble but I wonder for how much longer
Much respect and admiration for the security services for shutting this down so quickly.
I've been out in Borough Market many times and can only imagine the panic when this kicked off in a fairly confined space packed with people.
How quickly would they have been able to shut it down without a shoot to kill policy ?
franksinatra - Member
On Saturday evening, prior to the attack, we were discussing this and wondering if this then raises the likelihood of an attack in a rural area. To the best of my knowledge, the nearest armed police are 30mins away from where I live.
but I bet the nearest guns are much closer than that 🙂
Hope they find this guy and he's ok:
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40156960 ]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40156960
[/url]
True skaters mentality, try to batter them with your board
Another attack, more killed and seriously injured. My thoughts with all tjose affected.
Many many thanks to security servicrs and those in particular who confronted the terrorists unarmed