[Closed] Loft room

Depends how handy you are at DIY. I did exactly this last year except for the window which was already there and it took 3 weekends.

Floor boarding was chipboard panels which were piss cheap and just slotted together. Over the top of them was laminate flooring, again cheap and easy to slot together, also good for scraping spilt paint off.

Walls needed a few extra 2x4 verticals so that the plasterboard panels all ended against a bit of wood. This might have been unnecessary but saved me cutting the plaster panels. I had to cut the insulation panels to fit between the verticals but that was easy using just a bread knife and a couple of nails to hold them in place. Don't forget to leave an access door to the rest of the loft to get at the water tank, cables etc.

I didn't extend the power circuit as I didn't need power but the lighting was simply replacing the single old light with a couple of 'day light' LED strips. It is worth getting decent lights as painting under bad lights really screws your colour pallete up

I would get a pro in to do the Velux so you have insurance for leaks etc.

Look at what I described, decide which bits you feel comfortable doing and get the pros in to do the rest. I reckon you could half the estimate quite easily.

PS There is something special about climbing the ladder into the studio that I never got by 'going to the garage to paint'

Thanks WCA. I must admit I have no DIY skills and am very lazy. Which are probably all the ingredients of an unfinished job and a lot of nagging.

Sound like you have not regretted it, which is encouraging.

Buy the way, your brother in law did out extension on your recommendation. So very much value your opinion.

Cheers

£9k sounds reasonable to me but it could definitely be a lockdown DIY project. It all comes down to what you feel comfortable doing yourself and what kind of tools you have and how much time you're willing to spend on it. I did this exact job when we moved into our current house. There was an uninsulated dormer attic, 4m x 9m, with plywood walls. We stripped it bare, insulated, new floor, plasterboard, skirting board, paint, carpet. Got a man in for the electrics. Off the top of my head it was about £3.5k all in, but I did not enjoy the endless trips carrying materials up two flights of stairs, cutting insulation, painting, 2nd fix joinery, carpet laying, etc. and faced with the task again I would give serious consideration to paying someone else.

Nice work Flying Ox What did you use to insulate the rafters? Do you think the 50mm Celotex will be enough?

Various phots of my work, if the link works

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Just to hijack this thread (ish), I'm about to do something similar. We've got a loft room that runs from the front to the back of the house, and is about half the width of the total roof space. The other half of the roof space was converted before we moved in and contains a bedroom and the second floor stairwell.

This 'big' loft room needs a couple of Velux style windows putting in (one front, one back) before I can make a start on converting it into office/workspace. I'm going to attempt to do most of the work myself (apart from the windows). It's partly done already and has electrics... all that's really left is a bit of framing around the eaves to create some storage, and insulation to the roof with something to finish/face it.

What's a ballpark cost for supply and fit of Velux windows these days? Anyone had one done recently?

Thanks for those WCA very tidy and something to aim for - looks a really nice space. I think our loft is a bit bigger but a bit more an awkward shape and a few more random beams. I'll look into dividing off a section for storage that is not insulated.

Cheers

We used 50mm between the rafters and 100mm between the wall studs was actually 50mm all round. Also stuck a breathable roofing type membrane on the back side of the rafters as the roof is just old pantiles so it was very breezy. Looking back that was the worst bit of it all 😆
It's plenty warm enough in all but the worst of Scotland's winters. Even gets used as an occasional bedroom and is very comfy, although we have proper stairs going up there and an escape ladder for the velux window.

Thanks. That is reassuring and confirms my gut feeling that it is diminishing returns with thickness of insulation. So as long as there are no air gaps - 50mm is sufficient.

I think we'll go for it. Pretty excited to fill the extra space with crap.

Slight hijack, when you have got multiple W shaped trusses spaced about 50cm apart in a relatively modern house and one of them is right in the way as you access the loft, can you just chop it out or will the roof fall in? Asking for a friend who keeps banging his head...

Slight hijack, when you have got multiple W shaped trusses spaced about 50cm apart in a relatively modern house and one of them is right in the way as you access the loft, can you just chop it out or will the roof fall in? Asking for a friend who keeps banging his head…

Do not chop this out it is key to holding your roof structure together!

In most modern houses the roof trusses are all assembled off site in a factory and this is what makes loft conversions more expensive on these types of roofs as you need to do a lot more structural work.

WCA - did you put in joists as well?
Due to the length they do not usually physically come inside the roof via the inside of the house - you have to make a hole in the roof, mine were done when the roof was replaced - 9” joists tapered at the eaves ends , no way to get those through a loft hatch.

At some point long in the past the attic has been converted to a bedroom so the joists were all good thankfully.

Celotex (50mm) lining

I disagree with those who say 50mm is enough. IME it isn't even in SW France. 100mm is the minimum if you don't want a significant jump in your heating bill and the risk of condensation.

Check out the manufacturer's advice on loft lining.

In our case, the floor will have 300mm of rockwool, so I guess not much heat is going to be lost from the rest of the house below (we only have 100mm currently)

The room itself will only be used for a few hours a week, so we would probably just use an oil filled radiator (or two) to heat it whilst it is being used. I guess my concern was whether we would be able to put heat in quicker than it is lost.

It sounds like we might struggle a bit in the depths of winter but for most of the year it should be okay.

on the insulation the limiting factor is how much you can actually fit in before losing to much head hight. roof spars limit how much can go between as you need to leave a decent air gap above the insulation, i ended up with 50mm celotex. then i managed to get 35mm insulated plasterboard underneath the spars.

more would of been better but its still got a lot moree than it had before and i put a rad in as well so can keep it nice and warm. sod the heating bill as long as i'm warm.

did get a bit of condensation on the velux so i always left it on vent but since the boiler has been fitted the condensation stopped even with the velux shut fully.

We have deep insulation between the house and the attic area and then only the loft hatch which has so 75mm insulation on top. This means we don't lose too much heat from house to attic, no different to if we hadn't converted.

In the attic I think I only used 50mm between the rafters. It is quite warm enough to work in during the winter as I am only up there for a few hours at a time. During the summer I am really glad about the two velux windows as it gets quite hot and they allow a breeze across the room.

You need to think if you are turning this into a room you use for long periods of time and in all weather or somewhere that you spend a shorter amount of time in and when the muse takes you. If it is -5 outside I can normally find something other than art. I use the studio for an escape rather than ever really having to go there.

I always thought fitting a velux was a pro only job but here's a DIY how to. I'd give it a go but in our case we ve had a quote for a major plastering job including the velux and makes sense to get pro craftsmen in.

don't forget to submit a Building Regs application

How does doing this affect things when it comes to selling? Does it just not count as an actual room and has to be marketed as loft space or something like that?

What if u put 50mm celotex in and u find it not warm enough.... Too late then. I'd put 100mm in as educakator said, especially if your not getting much heat from the rooms below.

Thanks. Good point. It is all a bit of a compromise with headroom and cost.

I'll see if it can be upped to at least 75mm.

Not all insulation is equal. See what the actual insulation 'score' is for different brands. You might find one persons 50 beats another's 75. I bit like 5,000 Chinese lumen against 1,000 European lumen for bike lights

The tip-over to the room being deemed habitable for Building Regs. purposes is pretty grey, but in my opinion, if it's not got central heating installed, isn't fully plastered/finished as a proper room would be, and is only accessed by a loft ladder, it would be heavy handed to call it habitable and apply the regulations in full.

Do consider means of escape though - take measures if possible to ensure nothing impedes egress, and please do install (interlinked, and preferably mains powered) smoke detectors on each storey to alert anyone up there of their impending doom. Or burnt toast.

Also, don't screw up your roof ventilation. If it's a traditional 'cold' ventilated roof with old fashioned bitumen or plastic 'felt' you need to maintain a 50mm clear gap between the upper surface of any insulation placed between the rafters, and the underside of the felt. You also need to ensure you maintain any eaves and ridge ventilation. I'd recommend you install the latter if there isn't any in fact. If the roof has a breathable membrane that gap need only be 25mm really, and generally you don't need additional ventilation. If you fail to follow this advice, your roof is highly likely to condensate and give you grief down the line, potentially very expensive grief.

While the loft hatch is open all of your moisture laden air from the house uses it like a chimney - you need to be able to get rid of it, so keep that roof window open while in use, the background vent at least (and probably at all times), to let that moisture out of the 'room' and do seal the room up as well as possible from the roof void adjacent. You essentially want the roof voids to breathe but to try and stop any moist air getting into them to start with.

Lastly, don't cut any roof timbers unless you consult a professional first, particularly if it's a trussed rafter roof.

Polyurethane insulation is the best of the solid panels. Recticel claim R=4.15 for their 100mm panels. You really don't want any less.

My loft has evolved. I started with 100mm of various types of insulation in the ceiling under boards and nothing in the roof. The house was unbearably hot in Summer so I put 90mm of fibreglass between the rafters. I then decide to use the roof space for storage and for occasional guests to sleep in so added another 90mm perpendicular to the first lot. Still cold in Winter and unbearable in Summer. I realised the gable ends were a problem so insulated them with 100mm of recycled polyester or 60mm of Recticel over 60mm of rockwool. Still too hot/cold so I added another 60mm of Recticel to the roof.

Recticel 60mm R=2.6 + 180mm of fibreglass R=4.5 for a total of R=6.9 in the roof. The gable ends are whatever the wall is plus R=3.2. It's OK now except in a heat wave.

How does doing this affect things when it comes to selling? Does it just not count as an actual room and has to be marketed as loft space or something like that?

when i bought my house it was just mentioned as a loft room. survey said to class it as loft storage area as it would never meet regs as a room but it is more than adequate for me to use as a office/computor room as the previous owner did. mine also does have a proper staircase leading up from one of the spare bedrooms.

Thanks Core, that is useful info.

The top opening Velux will go out on to the roof. It is then a 8 foot drop on to the extension roof or 4-foot if you manage to cling on to the gutter first (and it holds). I will start training the children in the finer arts of the ninja roll.

Very good shout on the mains interlinked alarms - I am embarrassed how long it takes me to replace the batteries on ours.

Velux windows in ours provides a useful natural air con. Open them and the Staircase door and the hot air rises and out the top to keep the air flowing through the house. When it’s hot you need entry and egress of air.

Son2 lives up there. Bedroom one end, office/den the other. Not enough head room to walk far widthways. But he likes it. If you have high waves fine. If not, a dormer adds a lot of space for not huge extra cost.

Your quote seems reasonable to me. The conversion in our last house cost us 40k including a bathroom and all the trimmings. Was a great room and sold the house very easily.

Hi just to update this. We went ahead with the loft room. Thanks for the advice - we went with 75mm rather than 50 mm of insulation, mains fire alarms and putting the insulation below the rafters to maintain the air gap under the roof for ventilation. We also added a few extra sockets. Thanks everyone - we are dead chuffed with it. It came in at £9500.

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I've done a lot of this on my house as it's a Chalet, can i suggest something slightly different which has proven to work.

Use either cellotex (or other) PIR or Knauf Earthwool Acoustic in between rafter, but then put Superfoil SP19 or better accross the rafters, batten and then plasterboard. The superfoil stuff works brilliantly, my whole house is covered in a duet system of it, then packed with acoustic insulation (which has thermal properties) all to new build standards. It's cheaper and does a good job of reflecting heat during the summer, and keeping it in in the winter.

Ref floor insulation - other than acoustic - why? you want some heat upstairs, why stop it unless you are going to have separate rads?

Veluxs are also easy to install!!

Thanks Sui

Good advice but a bit too late now, they finished a couple of days ago!

I they preferred to go over the rafters as it was a lot quicker than cutting it in and also less likely to leave gaps. The idea of using the superfoil, sounds good, I kinda considered it but it all came down to cost. With the sun beating down on it today, it is not noticeably hotter than the rest of the house.

Yes, I am not sure why we bothered adding more floor insulation. They were raising/reinforcing the floor anyway so that that floor was is not supported on the ceiling joists. Rockwool is cheap enough that we thought we might as well put it in. I guess it will insulate the rest of the house marginally better with the hatch shut.

What is going on with those jutting out purlins?

Sorry CSB, missed your message. It would have been nice to reposition then. I think we would probably have needed a structural engineer to do so. I think the solution would have been to put some steels in spanning the walls to support the roof lower down. From the sound of it, it was going to add a few grand to the cost.

It is not too bad in practice, the Perlins divide the room into useful sized bays.