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2 things
Panic buying underway in local big Tesco as per lockdow. 1 same nonsense with bog roll... Why
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My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
I blame the section of society that are currently queuing outside supermarkets panic buying, FOR EVERYTHING!
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. There are some people who get a kick out of following the rules to the tee (they seem to mainly congregate on this forum) but I’d just use common sense – wash hands, don’t cough on old people etc etc
Agree, same as last time, use common sense, but the aim is to get community spread back under control. It's not just old people transmitting the virus.
My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
Providing care is allowed?
People are daft aren't they. I just popped down to the supermarket to get something for lunch and it was heaving.
If we learnt something from last time it was that the shops didn't run out of food.
we elected a bunch of idiots without the ability to do that. Because we are morons.
Just wanted to re-air this one, as it is a key part of the problem IMHO.
@globalti - sounds hard - hoping it will seem better soon. Moving is horrendously stressful at the best of times so can't imagine what its like for you right now. Is there no way you can move into the new place earlier - even if it means peeing in a portaloo for a few weeks it might help you to see some progress?
I will just comment on the regulations not the rights and wrongs of them or about individual decisions
As s basic principle of British Law, we, as private individual, are allowed to do anything that isn't prohibited. So my reading of the Government edict is that the prohibition on travel is key and takes priority.
The stuff about countryside beaches etc staying open, exercise being allowed is true because they are not prohibited not because they are specifically legislated for as being allowed ( I may be wrong and it may be that the Govt is taking powers to say everything is prohibited apart from a list of allowed things, but that would be a nightmare to draft and enforce - but I'm buggered if I'm going to spend a sunny Sunday reading the regs). What is "allowed" is mentioned in guidance as a way of setting boundaries about what is prohibited and also to try and explain the sort of things that aren't prohibited
I think it's not clear though and I have massive sympathy for everyone who is struggling generally - I am and I live in a leafy outer suburb of Leeds with direct access to the countryside.
TBH I think the Police will take a reasonable view and as long as people aren't taking the piss it will be ok.
My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
Which is why they haven't specified shielding this time, just told the vulnerable to minimise contact.
People are daft aren’t they. I just popped down to the supermarket to get something for lunch and it was heaving.
If we learnt something from last time it was that the shops didn’t run out of food.
Mrs K has just text in that the car park/road to Sainsbury's has a queue running out onto the local dual carriageway adding 7 mins onto a 5 minute journey taking junior to what's likely his last Rugby training for a bit.
Its all a bit nonsensical.
same as last time, use common sense, but the aim is to get community spread back under control. It’s not just old people transmitting the virus.
Agree. Its all very well being angry and anxious but we need to help each other out of this first whether venting on a forum or not mingling in a Peak District car park helps, just do the right thing, and help others by not taking a "**** the police" attitude to the guidance.
I have an interpretation of the rules that I deem reasonable and I will be following it.
My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
Go for a little walk somewhere with her a part of her support bubble.
Worth posting again
Yes, it's an excellent example of someone saying the rules are simple to follow then getting them wrong.
I’m going to spend a sunny Sunday reading the regs. What is “allowed” is mentioned in guidance as a way of setting boundaries about what is prohibited and also to try and explain the sort of things that aren’t prohibited
In the time it took to write your post you could have read them.
I have an interpretation of the rules that I deem reasonable and I will be following it.
I'll go along with that, obviously adding the caveat that I won't get upset/angry with people who fail to follow my interpretation.
I'll also add that it is pretty easy for me, so I am lucky in that respect (usually WFH, plenty of local shops and exercise options, space at home), and I know some do have it way tougher
Just parked up now waiting for the wife, watching a massive queue outside the Tesco Metro. And its pi$$ing down with rain to boot.
Are these lockdowns sponsored by the supermarkets ?
People are daft aren’t they. I just popped down to the supermarket to get something for lunch and it was heaving.
If we learnt something from last time it was that the shops didn’t run out of food.
People are daft as this has been obvious for AT LEAST 2 weeks
The supermarket rush is totally expected IMO. Last non-working day ahead of lockdown, folks worried they'll be queueing for hours in the evening after work so everyone tries to get a shop in.
...
Like every Sunday my Mrs has been for the weekly shop, no queue, no busier than normal and lots of stock.
I guess it comes down to where we live on people’s behaviour too.
The supermarket rush is totally expected IMO. Last non-working day ahead of lockdown, folks worried they’ll be queueing for hours in the evening after work so everyone tries to get a shop
Why? There’s no change for supermarket rules.
I went to our local Tesco about 8pm last night. There were more staff than customers.
We can't live in a building site. There's the question of insurance if we have an accident, to start with.
Absolute bollox… for a start all the pensioners who have already lost friends, the families of those pensioners.
They may have lost people but lockdowns will have no effect on their income and very little on their wellbeing. Other than being unable to go to the pub my parents lives will basically continue as normal. I'm lucky that restrictions will have very little impact on me personally as I'll still have a job etc but many won't be in the same boat. The young suffer disproportionately from these restrictions and gain very little benefit.
Not sure why the gov thought it a good idea to compress Christmas shopping and socialising into 1 month instead of 2, looks like there will be a big spike before any chance of rate of infection leveling off let alone coming down. Massive error of judgement not to lock down for couple weeks over half term.
Gut feel is December won't be much better than now, they'll still be dealing with the hospitalisation spike so this will get extended with maybe a couple of relaxations.
Just wondering how everyone's kids are taking the news of the lockdown?
My 16 year old daughter says it's "bullshit" when she's at school with her mates where there's no social distancing but she can't see the same friends in a group out of school. Difficult to disagree with the logic.
Massive error of judgement not to lock down for couple weeks over half term.
This needs repeating.
Why? There’s no change for supermarket rules.
People expect the rules to keep changing now.
Just use your common sense.
This still means nothing. Or rather, it means entirely different things to different folk.
Zzzzzz here we go again.
Just use your common sense. I appreciate the government seem to be lacking this, but please just do the right thing and stay safe.
This.
If you have to ask you obviously have little or no common sense.
This spike is going to last through to Spring
Just wondering how everyone’s kids are taking the news of the lockdown?
My 16 year old daughter says it’s “bullshit” when she’s at school with her mates where there’s no social distancing but she can’t see the same friends in a group out of school. Difficult to disagree with the logic.
My 2 say they understand it needs to be done but are happy they can go to school, they asked if they could anyway if it went to essential workers only, their school isn’t too bad on the social distancing regulations. They also understand that more time with others outside of school increases the risk. Maybe it’s because I explained it to them.
I have an interpretation of the rules that I deem reasonable and I will be following it.
Ditto. Social distancing, mask when in supermarkets etc. If everyone had exercised caution and observed the basic hygiene advice, social distancing, used masks where needed then we may not be in this situation. It's amazing the number of people who can't wear a mask properly or understand personal space.
Simply put - the greater the number of people who want to freestyle and the greater the range of deviation the longer the journey through restrictions. The longer it takes to get through restrictions the greater the consequences. There is no avoidance of short term pain but we should be trying to avoid dragging it out as much as possible.
I'm no epidemiologist, but I'm sure my chances of catching Covid in a peak district car park are pretty much zero, no matter how crowded it is.
On the other hand, the ladies of the house attend or work in two different schools and by my calculation sit in classrooms with the representatives of 120 different families. I guess that will put me in contact with a sizable number of people, given those families will be going to work, other schools and universities etc..
So, are the current lockdown rules simply what the government considers politically expedient or a genuine attempt to slow the infection rate sufficiently until a vaccine is available? I'd guess they are trying to do both, but it is a challenge carrying out mass experiments in communicable disease control on a (for now), live population in the full glare of public opinion.
If only, as a country, we had chosen those who govern us more carefully, instead we chose an old Etonion buffoon who really can't be bothered with the tedium of actually running the country.
Nevermind, a vaccine may arrive shortly and be effective or we'll continue with this drama until those who are going to die are dead; bed made, time to lie in it.
Good luck everyone and try not to get too angry at each other for perceived or actual breaking of the 'rules', it's all built into the model and and won't affect the outcome in any case.
should have locked down earlier as advised by scientists. f. idoits. allowing students to attend university in person. f. idiots.
and whilst kids are at school it's not a real lockdown. first case at my 5yr olds school announced today. in the year below. only a matter of time till we get it.
we've asked the grandparents to stop provide child care once a week. going to cause problems for us with work but we dont want to risk catching it at school and then passing it on to them
I'm not sure we are going to see the quiet roads of the first lockdown, and think most people are just going to carry on as they are
Schools will stutter along I reckon. All of my son's 6th form were self isolating before half term (upper and lower 6th) plus year 11. I wonder how many times they will be asked to self isolate because of being in close proximity of someone who has tested positive?
Got to fess up. I was in Tesco getting a newspaper for my aged landlady and whilst there I panic bought 3 tins of chopped tomatoes.
Forgive me.
Can we change this thread title to "lockdown 2 guidance - unreasonable bickering"?
Or just "Lockdown 2: Electric Boogaloo"?
Hurrah! They've updated the guidance to make things at least a little clearer:
However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:
exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so
Since summer, they seem to have made a priority for schools and universities to re-open at almost any cost. Hence this seems like it’s a lockdown designed so that that schools and universities can keep operating.
I've been having sense of humour failure lately anyway with all this.
Just the utter filthy selfish c's. Why can't people just actually give lockdown a real try and see what happens.
And cheesed off as this is the second time my weddings been cancelled, just had 9 days to go. Bog roll better not run out as the missus (to be) can't stop crying.
There is no avoidance of short term pain but we should be trying to avoid dragging it out as much as possible.
Please define short term.
I live in the North West. We've been under restrictions of varying severity since March. I've not seen my office or my colleagues in over 7 months. I was furloughed for 10 weeks in the summer. I basically go the gym (not after Wednesday though!) and the supermarket, that's it. I'm luckier than some though, I get that.
This government has wasted time, money, resources and opportunities and we don't seem to be any further forward. I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. How much longer are you content to drag it out?
However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:
exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so
Problem being those who feel they need to drive an hour to a trail centre rather than ride from home/local, when that is a viable option for them.
lockdowns will have......very little on their wellbeing.
Not what I've observed from family and neighbours. Lockdown has destroyed their quaint little social lives, meeting friends for coffee, craft groups, seeing grandchildren. Not seeing anyone in any meaningful way apart from the person they've already spent 50 years with.
The isolation and anxiety of catching it seems to have contributed to a real decline in mental health and development of dementia symptoms in some.
As ever - and I've been guilty of it on this thread already - it's too easy to only see it from your own perspective, so I probably should apologise. Lost the first person thst I actually know to Covid last week,
But this virus spreads via social contact. Unless we seriously reduce that, we won't reduce infection rates, admission rates and death rates.
My kids are pretty resigned to it. Neither are at the same school as their mates, so that's been an issue all the way through, but they understand about the risks of mixing bubbles. I've only managed half s dozen rides with my best mate since March - between our kids and his teacher wife there's at least 5 bubbles, and all have seen people needing to isolate.
Since summer, they seem to have made a priority for schools and universities to re-open at almost any cost. Hence this seems like it’s a lockdown designed so that that schools and universities can keep operating.
I think there's no getting away from the fact that people still going to work necessitates the kids still going to school.
Agree with Uni though, get the impression that's a commercial decision. People wanting their money's worth/Unis won't survive if they have to refund fees.
Problem being those who feel they need to drive an hour to a trail centre rather than ride from home/local, when that is a viable option for them.
So how is that really a problem?
Please go into detail.
Gut feel is December won’t be much better than now, they’ll still be dealing with the hospitalisation spike so this will get extended with maybe a couple of relaxations.
We were at ~1200 admissions a day (in England) when we locked down in march
That lockdown lasted for 12 weeks
We'll be at about ~1500?? A day when we lock down on Thursday.....
It’s amazing the number of people who can’t wear a mask properly or understand personal space.
^^ This. Most people seem to wear them as chin-nappies or leave their nose hanging out, and then wonder why the disease is spreading. But no, as far as they're concerned, it's 5G bats.
Still pissed off at the woman I saw in the supermarket last week who was proudly wearing a lace mask. Wish I'd said something now even if it would have resulted in a raging argument in public.
Since summer, they seem to have made a priority for schools and universities to re-open at almost any cost. Hence this seems like it’s a lockdown designed so that that schools and universities can keep operating.
Er yes. That's been quite clear since the summer, when the experts were making it very clear that to keep schools open to enable more parents to work, some things - basically social things and the industries that rely on it - would have to be sacrificed) supported.
None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Especially our incompetent government.
Why can’t people just actually give lockdown a real try and see what happens.
Because we all see lockdown through the lens of our own circumstances and risk appetite. I'm not defending people holding a Rave in the park, but if your job, mental or physical health is at stake, I suggest we trust people to make the call.
I think I'm at the point of ditching all media and social media feeds, working as part of the response it's not good for wellbeing and blood pressure. The amount of folks who are happy to moan at COVIDiots and yet also be happy to interpret the rules to suit their own end is astonishing, I do hope they don't have those they love hospitalised or die. Sure there are 'loopholes' but we're a modern democracy and folks trusted to use their common sense, however this seems to have departed long ago and god help what the figures will look like come spring.
So how is that really a problem?
Please go into detail.
Are we back to the 'no Gnar' discussion? I'll be keeping rides simple I think.
^^^ my point was more around the attitude of some who choose to drive fair distances to ride when they can easily take exercise on a bicycle from home, and hence remain within the intentions of the guidance.
I’ll stick to riding and running locally, but driving 40mins to the beach to surf.
^^^ my point was more around the attitude of some who choose to drive fair distances to ride when they can easily take exercise on a bicycle from home, and hence remain within the intentions of the guidance.
We've learned so much since Lockdown 1, including that traveling to exercise is negligible in terms of risk.
There are far more important things to worry about.
We (actually, you in England)
?
Despite Surgeons* better PR, deaths in Scotland are still at about 550/million (England is about 720), so you're still on the worldwide naughty step despite the geographical advantage of a remote population.
*The same argument applies if you're Welsh/Irish, no ones had anything approaching a successful policy.
The issue with the travel for exercise clarification here is that people from Bristol fee example could easily justify driving to Cwmcarn to ride the trails while the Welsh rules say not to travel for exercise. Basically we still have the issues with cross border differences we had with the Tier system.
I think there’s no getting away from the fact that people still going to work necessitates the kids still going to school.
Only for primary school.
It’s also why kids being in school nullifies so much of the “lockdown” efforts… it increases the number of people mixing in work and commuting environments, not just in schools.
no ones had anything approaching a successful policy
All year, or just this Autumn? In the past few weeks, NI seem to have got on top of the problem they had over there. Scotland data later this month is likely to look more promising than down here as well. I’ll wager the same is likely to be true for Wales as well. Of course, all those nations were limited in what they could do by those in Westminster.
But.
The policy can be as strict/stupid as anyone thinks, but it's the general public who are to blame as much as anyone now. Seeing the group's, the nights out, the people saying 'sod it' to any rules, they're the issue really.
All year, or just this Autumn?
Locking down before half term (and extending it) made a lot more sense.
Im NOT saying Boris has done anything other than create an omnishambles. Just challenging the narrative that the devolved administrations have played some sort of masterstroke.
There was someone on the last thread talking about driving from Scotland to the Alps and the way they portrayed it England was some sort or 28days later wasteland they were going to travel through with the windows up to avoid certain death! No hint or irony that driving to the Alps might be as much part of the problem as a trip to Barnard Castle.
The issue with the travel for exercise clarification here is that people from Bristol fee example could easily justify driving to Cwmcarn to ride the trails while the Welsh rules say not to travel for exercise
English is only for short distances it would still seem people are happy to ignore that though.
The policy can be as strict/stupid as anyone thinks, but it’s the general public who are to blame as much as anyone now. Seeing the group’s, the nights out, the people saying ‘sod it’ to any rules, they’re the issue really.
Perhaps some of them but many or most are just fatigued by ever changing advice and conflicting guidance.
At some point who can be bothered with new rules that get changed, reinterpreted etc.
Problem being those who feel they need to drive an hour to a trail centre rather than ride from home/local, when that is a viable option for them.
Which could be solved by saying no one can travel more than 10-20-30miles etc without good reason.
As it is I will do as I have been, and until they hang Dominic Cummings and the Tory party I really don't care. November will merge into December and then Brexit hits in January and we get real shortages rather than idiots panic buying.
Locking down before half term (and extending it) made a lot more sense.
Exactly.
the devolved administrations have played some sort of masterstroke
They haven’t. They did the obvious and minimum. Johnson’s team didn’t even do that… and now we have to pay the price.
Can we really blame this increase of infections on people not adhering to the rules? Admittedly just a small snapshot but compliance where I live has been very good.
Only for primary school.
You're very trusting! What will all these secondary school kids left at home do for the winter? Obey the rules?
Can we really blame this increase of infections on people not adhering to the rules? Admittedly just a small snapshot but compliance where I live has been very good
See just last night, a rave in Bristol with 700 people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54769055
Multiply that by events not found over 100 other towns and cities, etc.
You’re very trusting! What will all these secondary school kids left at home do for the winter? Obey the rules?
The infection rate spiked when schools went back. I believe more than 20% of cases are attributed to schools ATM.
It couldn't be much worse.
You’re very trusting! What will all these secondary school kids left at home do for the winter? Obey the rules?
More so than going into school and where they don't at least it would be mainly outdoors.
A significant number will have one parent at home anyway.
The current situation for us is ours go's into school, mixes on the way in then mixes all day in classrooms then goes via some route home.
When told to do otherwise outside his response is why bother we are forced not to wear masks and touch each other in school.
He knows he can't visit grandma ... and I can't see any point telling him I need a negative test next Friday or my colonoscopy gets cancelled.
The infection rate spiked when schools went back. I believe more than 20% of cases are attributed to schools ATM.
OMG, A coronavirus bei9ng spread through schools.... who could have forseen that?
I called the coppers out on what turned out to be 15 youths partying in local woodland this week - not because of Covid, I was more concerned because it was at a wetland nesting site and didn't want the birdlife disturbing.
You know, I think I'll just carry on with my self contained solo overnight bike-bivi trips to areas I know are quiet.
Just leave the ravers be..we were all young once.
At least they are probably building up some kind of heard immunity now rather than delaying the inevitable. Just as long as they don’t take granny
Not when they're trashing local wildlife habitats, I won't. The rest I don't give a monkey's about.
Oh yeah not those ones- b*stards. More the brizzle ones
?
Despite Surgeons* better PR, deaths in Scotland are still at about 550/million (England is about 720), so you’re still on the worldwide naughty step despite the geographical advantage of a remote population.
*The same argument applies if you’re Welsh/Irish, no ones had anything approaching a successful policy.
Go reread. I wasn't implying anything about Scotland being in a palpably better position. More a statement of fact that I am not part of the 'we' in lockdown next week. Unless things change I'll be enjoying the comparative freedoms of Scottish stage 1 when the English lockdown 2.0 starts.
@oldgit really sorry to hear that. It’s just a nightmare. We are due to marry this year also.
We some small slither of hope in that the wedding is 10 days after the lock down should end but thats assuming they for some reason also lower the tiers after lockdown as we are currently tier 3. The annoying part is we are technically able to marry but the venue won’t allow it as their insurer has told them they won’t be covered for tier 3 guests.
We are now looking at postponing but to when? And to top it off all our suppliers have gone silent. Helpful.
Good luck with everything.
English is only for short distances it would still seem people are happy to ignore that though.
What counts as a short distance?
Bristol to the FoD, hopefully 🤣
Kerley if we all followed your common sense then we’d still be trying to get rid of all the good we panic bought.
Sigh, apart from there was no panic buying I just bought a bit more than I normally would for a few weeks just in case supermarkets were not operating fully (which we now know is not a problem) and it was all used by May.
Still doesn't detract from the fact that if everyone had lived as I have for the last 6 months we would not be in another lockdown, simple as that.
Despite Surgeons* better PR, deaths in Scotland are still at about 550/million (England is about 720), so you’re still on the worldwide naughty step despite the geographical advantage of a remote population.
*The same argument applies if you’re Welsh/Irish, no ones had anything approaching a successful policy.
Reading all of this makes me feel incredibly lucky to live in The Isle of Man where there have been no cases in the community since May 20th . We closed our borders and got the rate down to zero and have been living normally ever since . Can't travel anywhere off island without having to self isolate for 2 weeks upon returning but otherwise all is normal . I really hope that the rest of the UK get on top of it soon but I suspect that's going to be a big ask .