[Closed] local farmer threatening dog walkers on bridleway and footpath

Talk to your local Rights of Way Officer (and the Police, if I were you).

Keep dog on lead?

There may be pheasants or the like around. Also the right of way is the strip you walk on not the area the dog runs round in.

I am not going to get drawn into the rights and wrongs of dog ownership and being in control of them and all that, but i am obviously concern that my missus might witness our dog getting shot.

whatever the rights and wrongs they don't convey any rights to issue threats of, or enact, violence against the dog owners or the dogs.

One thing that becomes clear is the individuals that are the targets of the threats come to realise that they're not the only ones and if they keep talking to one another and viable case could start to build. People avoiding the area is obviously the point of the threats. Its best to address that not by avoiding the area but by airing the issue to those that use the route and make sure that those threatened know that their case isn't isolated.

There may be pheasants or the like around.

pheasants are kind of very free range chickens though, aren't they - they're introduced, not natural.

I don't think anyone can legally shot your dog, because it is running over arable land. Only worrying livestock would be considered reasonable.

That leads to two issues, do you let a threatening, bullying Landowner stop you from walking where you legally want to?

Or, do you want to go for a peaceful walk and possibly have that turn into a horrible experience. The choice is yours!

Personally, I would stop the missus walking there herself, but go by myself and front up the landowner, if he appeared.

What right does the land owner have over wild animals?

pheasants aren't at all wild - they are bred and raised in captivity before release as adult- the landscape around them has been shaped for their rearing and protection - usually strips of dense woodland between cultivated fields, usually with fenced runs and feeders for young birds - some arrable crops are even planted specifically as habitats too.

I'd certainly call the police if he'd mentioned using a gun at all

They will certainly pay him a visit for a chat, that may just put him off doing it again.
I'd keep the dog on a lead for now though

I'm surprised more landowners don't threaten to shoot people. Especially people who take animals to poo on their land

pheasants aren't at all wild - they are bred and raised in captivity before release as adult- the landscape around them has been shaped for their rearing and protection - usually strips of dense woodland between cultivated fields, usually with fenced runs and feeders for young birds - some arrable crops are even planted specifically as habitats too.

He sounds like a complete ****!

Tell the Mrs to take a set of bombers next time.

What is the dog going to do to the pheasant anyway? Surely they would just fly away? My dogs can catch rabbits, rats and moles, they have never managed a bird yet.

winston_dog - Member

He sounds like a complete ****!

So do the dog owners who think it's ok to foul someone else's land.

If the farmer was shooting these theoretical pheasants (or perhaps rabbits, crows, etc) and 'accidentally' shot a loose dog, whose fault would that be?

Whereabouts?

So do the dog owners who think it's ok to foul someone else's land.

What do you mean "foul"? I would say the vast majority tidy up after their dogs.

I suppose all the wildlife uses the local public toilet?

Ha when the next door neighbour threatened to shoot our dog we rang the bizzies
He was surprised to see two armed response cars pull up quickly and practically get his door kicked in
Maybe if he had a shotgun license they might not have been so excessive they take firearm threats very seriously

Report the **** or smash his pots in for being a mouthy bellend

I doubt plod or anyone's going to do much after hearing "I've heard there's a guy threatening people"...you need more.

Would it not just be easier to stick your dog on a lead next time you use that path, rather than avoid it all together?

[i]If the farmer was shooting these theoretical pheasants (or perhaps rabbits, crows, etc) and 'accidentally' shot a loose dog, whose fault would that be? [/i]

That's a fair point. After all, the theoretical pheasants, rabbits, crows etc are all shitting away like crazy on his land. I can see why he'd have an issue with that.

What is the dog going to do to the pheasant anyway?

Erm... tear it to pieces, possibly? Do you know why people shoot pheasants? Because they're an easy target, being both slow and thick. I'd imagine they wouldn't pose much of a challenge for a reasonable sized dog to catch and rip asunder

remember pheasants only exist at all in this country so people can shoot them.

i think there is a shoot in the area, so this might be his issue. i have walked with her several times, but she likes to take the mutt there before i get home from work. we did meet a load of people who were mid shoot the other day, and got chatting to them. our dog was off the lead. no-one said anything about him being off lead.

i'm fairly sure threating to shoot someone's dog for just being off the lead isnt normal behavoir.

There may be pheasants or the like around

Obviously the Pheasants dont like Peasants like dog walkers and walkers, best to just be a pleb.

A local farm by us a farmers wife pointed a gun at two cyclists a few years ago,on a sustrans dedicated cyclepath, result armed responce unit,and lots of police, she was arrested.

cynic-al - Member

I doubt plod or anyone's going to do much after hearing "I've heard there's a guy threatening people"...you need more.

Trust me, they do, farmers are a easy target for the plod to chat to whenever there is a mention of a firearm 😉

What was she arrested for?

Stupidity?

Tell him if he shoots your dog you will burn him while he's sleeping

Bet he reports you

winston_dog - I suppose all the wildlife uses the local public toilet?

And that makes it alright for the local dogwalkers to do the same?

Try taking a dump in the middle of a farmer's field and use the same excuse...

What was she arrested for?

Stupidity?

ps. re arable only land, if it is only used for hay, as the fields near me are, then the owner has every right to object to dogs crapping on it as horses don't like it.

Hmm... gun control, access rights, dog poo/leads, farmers, potential marital strife maybe (OP hasn't volunteered to walk the dog himself), policing, random abuse of strangers...
This is shaping up to be a textbook STW thead. Only things missing so far are Hora's penis and an apology for posting in the bike forum by accident. 🙂

I doubt plod or anyone's going to do much after hearing "I've heard there's a guy threatening people"...you need more.

BTW, for a laugh, next time you get threatened, point a camera or phone at him and ask him, politely, if he'd care to repeat himself as you intend talking to the police about his behaviour.

Put your dog on a lead on his land is the answer and keep to the path .Its not a public park .I know of farmers who have shot dogs, albeit reluctantly because the public assume they have a god /allah/mohammed given right to go anywhere.

But are they his farm animals?

If they're on his land and he manages the land in their favour and sells shooting rights then they are his commercial interest regardless as to whether you can state ownership over any single bird. In the same way landowners can have a commercial interest in the fishing rights on a river without owning any of the fish.

FWIW your dog needs to be unde ryour control and not on a lead so explain to them the rules

I don't think anyone can legally shot your dog, because it is running over arable land. Only worrying livestock would be considered reasonable

THIS as well what exactly would their justification be for shooting the dog.

As fo rth egeneral threats . speak tot he ROW officer and then put up posters with an e-mail address - gmail etc asking those affected to provide details so you can show a pattern etc

I suspect it is a landowner who doe snot liek the fact they have to let the ROW go on so they get annoyed at everyone

TBH if someone thrretened to shoot me or my dog then i would report them and I would expect the plod to take it serioulsy if enough folk are all saying the same thing.

I suspect it is a landowner who doe snot liek the fact they have to let the ROW go on so they get annoyed at everyone

And I suspect that you are wrong, as the OP says: [i]the landowner has threated to shoot any dogs not on a lead.[/i] Leads me to think that the landowner is getting a little impatient with dogs that aren't on the RoW, the only place they are allowed to be.

Do you know for a fact there is no livestock anywhere on the land? Just put the dog on a bloody lead! The landowner sounds a bit of a tool but some dog owners seem to have a massive sense of entitlement.

I've seen loads of dogs go for sheep and every time the owners say 'oh he's never done this before'. 🙄

What was she arrested for?
Stupidity?

Threats to kill - 10 years

Offensive weapon in a public place - 4 years

Possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life or injure property - 10 years

intent to cause fear - 10 years

intent to commit an offence - Life

loaded firearm in public place - 7 years

or....... Wantonly discharging in the street..... and earth shaking 14 days! 😯

Keep your dog on a lead, and don't let it sh!t on their land - simple.

but some dog owners seem to have a massive sense of entitlement.

theres a big difference between advising someone about how they would have to act if their dog was actually out of control and actually causing threat or harm to his stock and threatening to shoot out of principle because he's a farmer and he believes he can.

And theres the issue of physically assaulting the public as well it seems.

A couple of passive aggressive notes scrawled on bits of plywood are all thats required, if his stock was to be endangered all he as to do is shoot and explain why afterwards.

What was she arrested for?
Stupidity?

Gun related offences (depended on how she acted in addition to waving the gun) could include:
Threats to kill - 10 years

Offensive weapon in a public place - 4 years

Possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life or injure property - 10 years

intent to cause fear - 10 years

intent to commit an offence - Life

loaded firearm in public place - 7 years

or....... Wantonly discharging in the street..... and earth shaking 14 days!

Wasn't having a go 🙂 I have just been looking at the offence tarrifs just now - out of curiosity - as someone of my aquaintaince is planning a pissed up shooting party (they've very thoughtfully booked a sober driver) and I was wondering how licensed gun use squares with alcohol. Pretty measley tarrif it seems - 1 month. I was more surprised at intent to cause fear carries a 10 year tarrif wheres letting off firearms in the street only carries 14 days.

But are they his farm animals?

If they're on his land and he manages the land in their favour and sells shooting rights then they are his commercial interest regardless as to whether you can state ownership over any single bird. In the same way landowners can have a commercial interest in the fishing rights on a river without owning any of the fish.

A lot of money is invested in shoots and shooting rights, and a lot of money is spend rearing pheasants and in their keeping. A shoot near me charges £10-20k for a season "gun" (basically a ticket to turn up and shoot on a shoot day of which there are about 10 a year and about 10 - 15 guns on the shoot)so it is a big money buisness and hence why the farmer / gamekeeper gets rightfully upset if your dog is running loose and scaring the pheasants away onto neighbouring farms.

A lot of the problem with dog walkers is a severe lack of understanding for what goes on in the countryside and the fact somepoele have to work very hard to make a living from it. Some think they have the right to just swan around like they own the place ....

I was more surprised at intent to cause fear carries a 10 year tarrif wheres letting off firearms in the street only carries 14 days.

I think if someone let off a gun in the street then they'd generally cause quite a lot of fear as well!

I'm always a bit bemused by these "intent to" crimes. All very Pre-Cog!

Threats to kill - 10 years

Offensive weapon in a public place - 4 years

Possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life or injure property - 10 years

intent to cause fear - 10 years

intent to commit an offence - Life

loaded firearm in public place - 7 years

or....... Wantonly discharging in the street..... and earth shaking 14 days!

none of these offences would be relevant in the case of a farmer shooting a dog that was loose on his land though would they..?

I'm more on the side of the doggie running around having fun than I am the toff with the shotgun trying to kill small animals.

So you think a farmer is within their rights to shoot (or threaten to) a dog in case it somehow manages to catch a bird only put their so someone else can shoot at it?

I do not like dogs one bit, but that seems a bit like double standards to me.

no those offence lists are for shooting people, not hounds.

I'm sure its morally OK to shoot dog owners that let their dogs crap everywhere, chase/maul sheep, or who hang bags of crap off trees <runs away>

none of these offences would be relevant in the case of a farmer shooting a dog that was loose on his land though would they..?

no - i was referring to the woman aiming a gun at cyclists.

Intent to injure property carries 10 years though - so shooting the dog (as someone's property) simply to make a point rather than to prevent harm the dog is doing is illegal

The farmer's threats though (rather than what he could do within the law) are an issue though. He can explain politely what he would have to do if a dog was causing harm, or he can put up a notice explaining the harms dogs could be doing that their owners aren't aware of. He can't threaten to shoot a dog because its a dog and he's a farmer.

I'm concerned we're moving away from what is the really important point here and it's the problem that farmers might have with people and things shitting on their land.

Here's a quick quiz for you to set the scene.

What do you think farmers put on their land to make the crops grow?

1. Sweeties
2. Fairy dust
3. Shit.

So you think a farmer is within their rights to shoot (or threaten to) a dog in case it somehow manages to catch a bird only put their so someone else can shoot at it?

The person doing the shooting will have paid for the privilege so as the farmer is protecting his livelihood then I would say yes.

Just keep the dog on a lead. Not hard really.

Did he look a bit like this?

[img] [/img]

What do you think farmers put on their land to make the crops grow?

1. Sweeties
2. Fairy dust
3. Shit.

Pretty sure they don't use the shit from carnivores as fertiliser, as it's full of all sorts of nasties.

1. Sweeties
2. Fairy dust
3. Shit.

as a rule though Samuri, the err, poo created by carnivores is full of very noxious and disgusting bacteria, where as the poo of farm animals, rabbits and pheasants is mostly consisting of, err, organic fertilisers

not going to feeds the obvious trolls.

there is not legal requirement to keep a dog on a lead. it must be under control. there are no signs saying please keep all dogs on lead, it's shooting season, or whatever. the guy sounds like a complete tosser, and i'm looking forward to meeting with him to have a discussion about it.

[i]poo of farm animals[/i]

like pigs?

there is not legal requirement to keep a dog on a lead. it must be under control.

Pfffft - find me a dog owner who can really control their dog off a lead at all times and I'll find you a liar.

I bet the owners of the dogs that have run straight in front of me or jumped up at me on my bike would claim they were 'under control' too.

Deffo go to the Police and then contact your Council

We have two farms adjacent to each other with 5 footpaths running through them. We gets loads of walkers and some have dogs, using the paths.

If there is a sign outlining the use of firearms to stop worrying cattle then the Farmer has the right to use force.

My FiL went though a stage of hassling walkers for no reason (he was going through some mental health issues at the time) and cocked his shotgun, result.. Police and Court later and an ASBO awarded and shotgun license taken off him.

Now all he does is whine and grumble away to himself.

We have 44 cattle and 120 sheep with associated chickens/ducks.

BTW we have no problems with walkers nor dogs kept on leads but will confront folks that ignore our concerns.

You should go to the police and to the Council as noted above.

A landowner is entitled to insist dogs are kept on a lead.

You might like to consider organizing walkers into groups, ideally mixed male/female. I suspect the landowner is simply a bully. Groups of people are less easy to intimidate and are better able to provide evidence to authorities.

So what do we think this the more heinous crime?

Possible trespass and dog fouling?

Or the illegal and irresponsible use of a firearm which threatens peoples safety?

Also, it would appear the farmer was threatening people.

Totally unacceptable, I would phone the police and report him. Get some of the other walkers to do the same.

samuri - Member
poo of farm animals

like pigs?

what of it..?

[img] [/img]

Anyway the problem will have died down just now as the farmer is currently too busy shooting buzzards and dumping their bodies on roads.

Or the illegal and irresponsible use of a firearm which threatens peoples safety?

or what you actually mean is the friendly warning of possible future legal use of a firearm if certain conditions are not adhered to..

The bloke sounds to me like a compassionate dog lover who is just looking after the interests of the OP's pooch

So what do we think this the more heinous crime?

Possible trespass and dog fouling?

Or the illegal and irresponsible use of a firearm which threatens peoples safety?

I dunno, but I know which one is more prevalent. 😉

I'm not excusing the actions of this guy, and it's not often I would be on the side of the landowners, but some people really do need to exercise some common sense/consideration.

[i]Pfffft - find me a dog owner who can really control their dog off a lead at all times and I'll find you a liar.[/i]

Its rare I admit, but I never put my dog on a lead because he is not only well trained but incredibly obedient. And no....I'm not a Liar.

i'm looking forward to meeting with him to have a discussion about it.

He might be a completely reasonable guy.

All the facts are based on hearsay.

The threatening to shoot a dog may actually be "be careful as your dog may be mistaken as it runs round my land"

Pfffft - find me a dog owner who can really control their dog off a lead at all times and I'll find you a liar.

Pretty much anyone who works with a border collie

Pretty much anyone who works with a border collie

i used to live nextdoor to a shepherd and her collies were amazing, the postman was one last bite away from removing her postal deliveries, and she was always trying to retrieve them from surrounding fields. They were good at relocating walkers walking through the farmyard instead of taking the footpath around it though 😈

Its rare I admit, but I never put my dog on a lead because he is not only well trained but incredibly obedient. And no....I'm not a Liar.

That's what they all say. Right up to the point where it goes after sheep or a cyclist. Then you can say 'he's never done this before', or 'he's only playing'.

Pretty much anyone who works with a border collie

Hmm, bit more control than average but still fairly mental IME. One Man and His Dog wouldn't be very competitive if they were really so easy to control. 🙂

Some worrying coprophilia going on here. Where exactly did this become an issue about dogs crapping anywhere? No mention of it in the OP. Yet as usual the STW dog haterz leap in to obsess over excrement.

What this thread needs is some authoritative advice on the law in respect of dog control and leads. Now, where's Tand ... oh

I am not going to get drawn into the rights and wrongs of dog ownership and being in control of them and all that, but i am obviously concern that my missus might witness our dog getting shot.

Maybe she should keep it on the lead then? Problem solved!

Yet as usual the STW dog haterz leap in to obsess over excrement.

possibly because its one of the most vile substances known to man (other than the lazy dog walkers), which pollutes the countryside which many enjoy.

its absolutely disgusting stuff which we have to put up with when we go to the countryside, purely because dog walkers are too lazy/imbecilic to clean up after their dogs.

if i were a landowner, with lots of dogs walking across it, i bet there's a fair chance that there's loads of shit left there too - i'd be pretty pissed off with dog walkers too.

but i am obviously concern that my missus might witness our dog getting shot.

find me a dog owner who can really control their dog off a lead at all times and I'll find you a liar.

Really will you - I dont get why we need such extreme reactions
For sure some will be liars but all of them - doe sthat included the sheperd and hsi working dog BTW doe si tneed to be shot?

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums/general-wildlife/64002-shooting-dogs.html

I assume you are in Englandshire, here is some decnt reading not the shit that passes for intelligent conversation (by some)on here. Also a dog needs to be [u]dangerously[/u][u] out of control for it to be shot.
OP do yourself a favour and use this link
https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=dog+shooting++uk+law&oq=&gs_l=

That's what they all say. Right up to the point where it goes after sheep or a cyclist. Then you can say 'he's never done this before', or 'he's only playing'.

I had one of those on Sunday 'he's never done that before','he's only playing'

'Well I don't want to play' was my answer, after getting 6 yards of dog lead untangled from my front wheel 😉

The owner was genuinely surprised though, so I did tend to belive her at the time, a nice dog owner in the end

purely because dog walkers are too lazy/imbecilic to clean up after their dogs.

Are you honestly so weak minded that you think in such simplistic terms about "dog walkers"?

Are you incapable of comprehending the idea that maybe in life there are some people who are good at things, and some people who are bad at things, and lumping both together based on some loosely shared characteristics is the preserve of the hard-of-thinking.

Just to drive home my point one extra special time for you. Not all "dog walkers" leave crap on walks - so treating all "dog walkers" with disdain is idiotic.

I regularly pass one of the local farmers walking his two collies down the path, off the lead. They are very well behaved. A quick call from him and they move to the side of the path and sit down. I usually get a cheery "Morning" too (from him, not the dogs, they're not [i]that[/i] clever). 🙂

I'd much rather that than trying to pass a dog [i]"on the lead"[/i] when the lead in question is 20-foot long, near invisible and stretched directly across the path. 👿

The person doing the shooting will have paid for the privilege so as the farmer is protecting his livelihood then I would say yes.

One Man and His Dog wouldn't be very competitive if they were really so easy to control.

Are you honestly so weak minded that you think in such simplistic terms about "dog walkers"?

i think its pretty clear that i'm talking about the type who leave their dog's shit everywhere.

you're not one of those, are you?

🙄

All herd animals. By themselves, harmless, mindless, comical creatures.

Put them in a pack though and they become the most dangerous organism known to farmers.

Really will you - I dont get why we need such extreme reactions
For sure some will be liars but all of them - doe sthat included the sheperd and hsi working dog BTW doe si tneed to be shot?

Yeah bit harsh maybe - but I have had numerous encounters with dogs off their leads, and have had the old 'he's never normally like this' or 'he's only playing' several times. Everyone likes to think their dog is well trained don't they. One guy got really quite aggressive with me when I suggested his dog should be on a lead after it ran straight in front of me on the cycle tow path and I nearly ran it over. I always slow down to walking pace going past dogs anyway (as long as I see them).

On more than one occasion I've been close to having a very nasty accident - purely because people are either in denial about how well trained their dogs are, CBA putting them on a lead, or don't care.

I was coming down to Sedbergh from the Calf once and a dog properly jumped at me and ran after me for about 50 yards trying to get me - the owners didn't say a word or try to call him back or anything. The other day an old woman had two dogs off leads who ran straight out over a busy crossing and nearly caused a crash.

I really do question how well trained the vast majority of dogs are to be allowed off their leads.