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Anyway, whilst everything points to a proper kicking for the tories, I’m not so sure that Labour is doing as well as it could. Plenty of votes going to lib dems
Yep - don't think Tory fatigue has really kicked in despite Mad Max policies.
If this recession eventually turns up - (back end of the year) that could tip it. If not the Tories will be enjoying their own Coronation in 2024/25 because of Starmer has no clue about fixing stuff.
The whole thing is a snooze-fest currently with little hope either way.
A couple of months ago it was all about Labour getting this massive landslide in a GE and it was odds on - now it's chat about a hung Parliament.
there are plenty of people all to ready and willing to take advantage of people not having some sort of official ID.
Not around elections there aren't.
There is also the possibility that some Tory councillors are actually good at their jobs. We have one who is quite active on the local FB group and is well regarded. All he does is hear people's complaints and then take them to the council, but he reports back the outcomes on FB and it makes people like him.
He stood for election as an MP last time though and got very few votes so that worked out alright in the end.
Or the fact that Lib Dems and Greens do actually work hard and have reasonable policies at local government level…
Our local labour councilor is pretty visible
She must have some sort of alert on her phone, anything that goes on the local FB group, bin delays, kids kicking over gnomes, potholes - and she's all over it
Loads of people whinge , biggest being cost of repointing the local obelisk! - but tbf it looks loads better
I'd be surprised if they didn't get in again
We - that is Labour - need to get the proverbial finger out on our policy. Everyone knows the Tories are a shit-show and the country is tanking, so Labour needs to set out clearly how we will move the country out of this mess. There needs to be a clear statement of what we'd get under Labour that provides hope - we got elected in 1997 on a wave of positivity supported by some big but straightforward ideas.
I will be telling this to any handy Labour MPs in the pub after the count - with increasing force the more I drink!
Plenty of votes going to lib dems.
Mine did.
And will remain that way until I actually see what actual Labour’s plans are. So far it’s still ‘we’re not Tories, but we’ll keep a lot of what they’ve done’.
I am impressed that you know what LibDem plans are, that certainly doesn't appear to be the picture nationally - I imagine that most people haven't got a clue.
Which I guess helps to explain why despite all opinion polls showing unprecedented low levels of support for the Tories they also almost always show support for the LibDems even lower than last general election.
I am impressed that you know what LibDem plans are, that certainly doesn’t appear to be the picture nationally – I imagine that most people haven’t got a clue.
Same for Labour and the Tories, I have no idea what any of them really stand for at the moment....
I’m not so sure that Labour is doing as well as it could. Plenty of votes going to lib dems.
Which tells you something that many labour supporters don't like to hear, they are not that popular either. Lots of people don't want to vote for Tory's but also don't want to vote for Labour. I know lots of people vote only in a "against" manor (i.e. I vote labour means I vote against Tory) but but many will only vote for a party.
Is there any data on the turnout in comparison to other local elections?
I am impressed that you know what LibDem plans are, that certainly doesn’t appear to be the picture nationally – I imagine that most people haven’t got a clue.
No ruddy idea what they are - but I won't endorse Labour's lack of ambition by voting for them just now. They need a 'yeah, you've done well, but you need to do a lot more', rocket up their arse.
If there were a Monster Raving Looney candidate they'd have got my vote.
The problem is as soon as a Labour policy gets any popular traction the Tories steal it, they are simply about staying in power if that requires saying they'll nationalise the railways they say they will, then not do it once safely voted back into power.
Same for Labour and the Tories, I have no idea what any of them really stand for at the moment….
Sunak was on 5 Live this morning acknowledging a bad night, bigging up the handful of wins they've had and saying he's going to carry on with halving inflation, growing the economy and stopping the boats, so essentially trying to fix all the things they've broken in the last 13 years.
So labour winning in very brexit supporting seats. Seems like their brexit stance is the main/only thing they've got right. They'll probably win the next election based on that alone, which is quite depressing for those of us who want to see some change in the way the economy and country are run.
There is a strong correlation between people with no photo ID, the lower socio-economic groups, and traditional democrat voters. I’m not sure the same correlation exists in the UK
I rather suspect that the correlation here is age.
It wasn’t a ‘clutching of pearls’ about carrying ID, as it happens I’m OK with this although I understand why others have objections.
The possibility of being arrested for not having your papers with you likely doesn't sit well with a lot of people. And whilst the 'slippery slope' argument is often a logical fallacy I believe that it would be the case here.
It's also all a bit Revelations if you believe in that sort of thing.
Labour needs to set out clearly how we will move the country out of this mess
pretty sure I read Kier is pulling back on lots of previous statements, such as nationilising energy, I can only assume because there is now a real chance they will get voted in, and they haven't a scooby of how you would actually make it happen
very easy to make lots of statements about what you would do when you are in opposition with no hope of getting in.
though, I prefer his approach to the tories, which is just plain lie to the public.
My local council has been labour for most of the time I can remember, I think one small stint as a try council. There is currently talk of the council going bankrupt through mismanagement, which is obviously not good, but it may mean labour don't hold on here (southamtpon)
We – that is Labour – need to get the proverbial finger out on our policy. Everyone knows the Tories are a shit-show and the country is tanking, so Labour needs to set out clearly how we will move the country out of this mess. There needs to be a clear statement of what we’d get under Labour that provides hope – we got elected in 1997 on a wave of positivity supported by some big but straightforward ideas.
That's not how opposition politics works though.
It's 4.5 years of holding the government to account, debating, etc. But fundamentally doing nothing because there's nothing you can do. If the government makes a whipped vote out of the issue then you lose however good your argument is. Then 6 months of proposing an alternative plan. Because on the economy at least there's not much point being more long sighted at the moment as it's lurching from one crisis to the next. Having a plan now just gives you a 50/50 chance of being wrong.
Non-economic policies are different, but when you're that far ahead in opinion polls, why chip away at that? Proposing anything that the Mail, Express, Sun etc could portray as "WOKE!" is only going to lose them votes now.
No ruddy idea what they are
Ah, I thought they might have had a very effective local campaign. Yeah nationally most people have no idea what LibDem plans are. I'm not sure the LibDem leader even knows. Or that most people know who the LibDem leader is.
But I get your point about refusing to vote Labour until they come up with a better offer than just "we're not Tories".
Where UKIP is no longer standing Labour seems to be doing well. Be interested to see whether it's a direct UKIP to Labour switch or more movement below the surface
Maybe the UKIP voters are hit hardest by cost of living crisis so voting Labour on that basis?
Interesting listening to BBC coverage this morning. Labour are hitting the Tories in many areas, LibDems in others... and that's being presented as a "problem" for Labour. In my view it's the electorate getting smart and voting for their preferred candidate that's in the running to get rid of Tories in their area... rather than worrying that they're not their perfect candidate. People voting in LibDem councellers in Bath, Somerset, Gloucestershire is great news, even if you're a Labour supporter there. There are plenty of Tory MPs around there that we could do with being rid off... and if people turn out to vote them out at the next General Election... that's not a problem for anyone but the Tory party.
There needs to be a clear statement of what we’d get under Labour that provides hope
While you're wedded to Brexit that's not likely.
I mean, I'll read the manifesto with an open mind, but the signs are hardly encouraging.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens there, all the evidence is that active travel isn’t the wedge issue the antis think it is and doesn’t bring electoral success.
Picking up on this ^^ from Page 1.
Bath & North East Somerset Council (Lib Dem majority control) had a contingent of vocal Tories standing on an anti-LTN, anti-CAZ platform and they got the lowest vote share of all.
Tories lost 8 seats, the council went further to the Lib Dems and also gained a (very pro-active travel) Green Party member.
The locals should have been a total landslide for Labour - I reckon a massive percentage of people look at the national news and have that in mind when they vote locally. And if thats the case, then Labour should have wiped the board if they'd not spent the last 6 or 7 years messing around with Corbyn and now Starmer, two "leaders" who seem as spineless as the other. When Brexit was happening, who was there to stick the oar in and every opportunity and point out what a clusterfk the tories were making of it? Who was there to point out the blatant lies they were reeling out? When the government were handing out multi million pound contracts to their mates during Covid, who was there to make sure that was all over the media apart from the odd snippet in the press? Who was forced to be held accountable? Johnson's parties etc? Multiple golden opportunities for a competent opposition leader, handed to them on a plate, to repeatedly hammer the government and what do we get? Starmer sat in a boozer in his shirt pretending to follow the football and the odd piece of lunacy from Diane Abbott. As I said in my previous comment in this thread, labour locally around me are as invisible as they are on a national level and despite voting for them all my life, I'm not sure I'd be able to put trust in a party who are seemingly so rudderless.
Multiple golden opportunities for a competent opposition leader, handed to them on a plate, to repeatedly hammer the government and what do we get? Starmer sat in a boozer in his shirt pretending to follow the football and the odd piece of lunacy from Diane Abbott
I seem to remember lots of stick about it at the time. Certainly in PMQs. If the media aren’t with them in the same way parts of it are with the incumbents, it’s not going to be heard.
Quite. The Conservatives are crooks, but the idea of a Labour government chills me. That’s literally the only situation I would consider voting Tory, tactically to keep Labour out. I’ll take crooked incompetence over creeping authoritarian control and ideological tyranny any day of the week. If only there was another way.
Labour are hitting the Tories in many areas, LibDems in others… and that’s being presented as a “problem” for Labour.
In general Labour do better when Libdems perform well.
I would consider voting Tory, tactically to keep Labour out. I’ll take crooked incompetence over creeping authoritarian control and ideological tyranny any day of the week.
Could you give us a bit more detail about the creeping authoritarian control? Maybe risk taking your tinfoil helmet off before you do?
And to be honest I can't think of any more ideologically extreme administration than the absolutely hatstand Tory Brexiteers and Liz and Kwasi's Chicago school ultra-neoliberal financial lunacy. They're all complete nutjobs and have forced their unhinged ideology on us all for the last 6 years now
if that requires saying they’ll nationalise the railways they say they will, then not do it once safely voted back into power.
Sir Kier Starmer - come on down!
Anyway, whilst everything points to a proper kicking for the tories, I’m not so sure that Labour is doing as well as it could. Plenty of votes going to lib dems.
This has to be good thing regardless of where the votes went. It should create more infighting amongst the Troy party, there are still a fair few that think Sunak is the wrong person for the job.
I’ll take crooked incompetence over creeping authoritarian control and ideological tyranny any day of the week. If only there was another way.
lols!
the tories currently engaged in voter suppression & a concerted effort to shut down protests
& you reckon labour are authoritarian?!
@jambourgie - my sentiments exactly. Labour are utterly useless. They resemble nothing like what the old Labour party stood for. The Tories aren't much better.
I'm not sure what the country needs isn't present in any of the parties unfortunately.
The Tories will no doubt refuse to accept last nights kicking as anything other than a blip. Most people i speak to are sick and tired of them, their policies and scandals. The sad reality is that there isn't any party that is up to tackling the decline of this country.
...hopefully it will be nice to see their turmoil unfold over the next few weeks and listen to them blowing smoke up each others ar5e....but equally disheartening to listen to them ignore the populations concerns again!
The locals should have been a total landslide for Labour – I reckon a massive percentage of people look at the national news and have that in mind when they vote locally.
except historically that isnt what happens, smaller parties always do well at locals but people tend to swing back to big ones at GE- the joys of FPTP!
the Tories will know this, theyll try to spin it as a labour problem, but internally theyll be brciking it
They’re all complete nutjobs and have forced their unhinged ideology on us all for the last 6 years now
Reminder - 40 years. You're just seeing an acceleration of failure as it gobbles up the middle ground.
It started with Thatcher - fashions have changed and most likely everyone has forgot what the point of a market it is these days.
I’ll take crooked incompetence over creeping authoritarian control and ideological tyranny any day of the week. If only there was another way.
I'm lost there are you talking about the Tories or Labour?
I’m lost there are you talking about the Tories or Labour?
With the tories I guess their incompetence and corruption does give a certain safeguard against their authoritarian tendencies since they would give the contract for microchipping everyone to a mate from the pub and only end up chipping 5 people at the cost of ten billion dollars.
"The locals should have been a total landslide for Labour"
No, it's not as straightforward as that. As has been said a few times, these seats were largely last up in 2019, which were disastrous for the Tories. They can't be that far above the point where all that's left are seats in areas which are core vote and won't elect anyone else.
"In general Labour do better when Libdems perform well."
Usually more the other way round, but bear in mind that (unlike at Westminster) there are often urban northern councils which are LD-Lab battlegrounds.
this result is quite telling IMO
East Herts council
In 2015 Conservatives won all 50 of the seats (last time round they managed a mere 39) - currently they have 16, with two seats in Hertford Castle too close to call and currently being recounted with results expected around lunchtime.
With two seats to declare at East Herts, no-one can reach 26 for full control, but the Greens are the largest party with 17 seats, the Tories are on 16, Lib Dems 10 and Labour on five.
What that tells me is the tories are having a really bad time of it but where there is a realistic alternative to labour for disaffected tory voters they take it - so not much enthusiasm forlabour
I may be overly paranoid about the BBC's tory bias, but looking at the little results table on their site, the + symbol is suspiciously small in comparison to the - symbol under the Tory results. Almost as though they're attempting to play down the gains by the other parties by squashing the + symbol down so small it looks more like a ÷ or a -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/results
Bob - that's paranoia.
+ -
@tjagain That's an interesting result; while the Greens are often seen as quite left wing, there's also a subset who are more right leaning. I wonder if E Herts Greens are in the latter camp?
<p style="text-align: left;">I'm very worried that come the GE, the "non-Tory" vote will increasingly be spread between Labour, LibDem, Greens and maybe independents, and FPTP will see Tories squeaking in as their hard-core vote consolidates.</p>
Really hope I'm wrong.
Ratherbeintobago
The greens do not really sit on the right / left spectrum very well. The split is between the dark greens for whom everything starts with a no growth society, that there are no technological solutions and are fundamentalist ie the only answer is consume less and the light greens who believe in "green consumerism"
You could see the dark greens as being leftish - but the leftish position is an outcome of their beliefs not their core belief
Easiest analogy is the light green uses ecover fabric conditioner, the dark green does not use fabric conditioner.
Its quite possible tho that this bunch have tailored their manifesto / information to meet local concerns
"I’m very worried that come the GE, the “non-Tory” vote will increasingly be spread between Labour, LibDem, Greens and maybe independents, and FPTP will see Tories squeaking in as their hard-core vote consolidates"
@MoreCashThanDash Maybe, but. There aren't many three way marginals, the LDs generally do better when Lab is seen as electable, and mostly the public are wise enough to know which way to vote to GTTO, whereas formal deals don't play well with the public.
It may have been mentioned already but knuckle dragger Gullis no longer has a single Tory councillor anywhere in his constituency.
Today is a good day.
Green Party election manifestos have always been social-democratic, they have never bought into neoliberalism, unlike the three major parties.
Which, when combined with the fact that for very obvious reasons they don't attract self-serving careerists, makes them one of the few parties which imo deserve support.
@franksinatra That's good news - what's the council breakdown?
@ernielynch I don't really think you could accuse the LDs of attracting self-serving careerists either, TBF. And I'm also unsure that a party which by it's very definition is 'liberal' can be 'neo-liberal'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/results
Relative to their support before yesterday the Green Party has made the most dramatic gains of any party, at this stage at least.
According to the latest results more than half the Greens wins are gains from other parties - 40 out of 75.
Could the Tories become the third biggest party in council seats?
I don’t really think you could accuse the LDs of attracting self-serving careerists either, TBF. And I’m also unsure that a party which by it’s very definition is ‘liberal’ can be ‘neo-liberal’
You don't think that Nick Clegg was seduced by the offer of a ministerial car? Betraying LibDem voters by enabling a Tory government certainly didn't do his quest for personal fulfillment any harm. There is no evidence that Nick Clegg was motivated by any commitment other than to himself.
And Nick Clegg definitely abandoned the social-democratic road which had been carefully charted out by Charles Kennedy, and which had benefited the LibDems so much, when he forced the LibDems to turn up late to the neoliberal party.
WTF do you think austerity and deficit reduction was if not neoliberal claptrap?
The LibDems are still paying the price today. The LibDems were enjoying twice the level of support under Charles Kennedy that they are now.
@molgrips Wikipedia suggests that they'd have to lose rather a lot for that to happen - pre-election about 1400 in front of Labour, never mind the LDs.
@ernielynch Not forgetting that LD vote share was on the slide pre-coalition? While it's easy to blame Clegg for a lot (and his subsequent actions make that easier) the coalition was put to a vote of the membership, who could easily have said 'no' and frankly if you're a careerist politician there are much easier routes than being in a party that has to work hard for every vote (which is also true of the Greens).
Trails behind Nationwide in Swindon now under Labour control.
Not forgetting that LD vote share was on the slide pre-coalition?
No it wasn't, the LibDem share of the vote had been perfectly stable, in fact it had actually increased by 1% in the 2010 GE
if you’re a careerist politician there are much easier routes than being in a party that has to work hard for every vote
Of course not. It will have been far easier for Nick Clegg to find a seat to fight for in LibDem Party than the Tory and Labour parties where competition to be selected as a candidate is immeasurably greater.
Nick Clegg and Danny Alexander were both subsequently rejected by their electorates, what effect did that have on their personal career prospects?
Absolutely none. In fact they used their failed political careers to enrich themselves even more. Do you honestly believe that their previous positions as Deputy Prime Minister and Chief Secretary to the Treasury didn't give them a massive leg up?
And so what if the LibDem membership backed them? It doesn't mean that their enthusiastic support for George Osborne's economic policies weren't a commitment to neoliberalism.
Plenty of LibDem voters certainly didn't support their betrayal and enabling of a Tory government, a price which they are still paying, however well they might do in these local elections.
And I’m also unsure that a party which by it’s very definition is ‘liberal’ can be ‘neo-liberal’
Calling something Liberal doesn't make it so.
I see that election news is now a sideline on the Daily Mail website!
Bring on Kate and Wills for the win!! 🙂 🙂
"Plenty of LibDem voters certainly didn’t support their betrayal and enabling of a Tory government, a price which they are still paying, however well they might do in these local elections."
'Betrayal' is a bit strong, though I'd have been justifiably annoyed if I'd voted LD tactically to GTTO.
But there weren't other realistic options on the table for forming a majority government (IIRC a rainbow coalition involving Lab & the SNP which frankly is never happening still would have been short of a majority) and it was coalition with a far less right wing Tory party than we have now, or a minority government followed by another election 6 months later, in the middle of the biggest financial crash in decades. And it was put to the membership, who could have said 'no' (even if many who said 'yes' did so through gritted teeth).
There's a very good argument that the LD vote remains depressed because, having been in power, the LDs are no longer the 'none of the above' protest vote in the way it was pre-coalition - there's some suggestion the Greens have benefitted from this, though of course they've also been standing more candidates and doorknocking harder which will also have helped.
It will have been far easier for Nick Clegg to find a seat to fight for in LibDem Party than the Tory and Labour parties where competition to be selected as a candidate is immeasurably greater.
I'm not sure what basis you can say that; finding a seat to run in might be easier, but getting elected is almost certainly much, much harder given that by national vote share you need 10x as many votes to elect a LD as a Tory (Greens even worse - 30x as many).
Also, unlike the two main parties, CLDPs have much more power to reject candidates, will often select someone already involved locally, and there is also mandatory reselection. I suppose the counter argument is that he'd been an MEP and Hallam was as close to a safe LD seat as he was going to get in 2001.
Dicks Venes sadly defeated in Burnage.
ratherbeintobago
i think the reason for the still low lib dem vote is that their USP was "honesty and integrity" and going into coalition blew that out of the water as well as the probably only Scottish issue of Carmichael the liar
they gave up all their power in the coalition by stating early on they were not going to collapse the government.
S&C would have been a much better thing for them and would have avoided the painful episode of watching Cable justifying selling off the royal mail cheap
Whats happened in Slough? Anyone know why its so much against the national movements?
Labour has lost control of Slough, where the Conservatives have become the biggest party, with 21 of the 42 seats, PA Media reports. PA says Labour lost 17 seats, with the Conservatives gaining 16.
@tjagain Maybe you're right, and I think with hindsight there's a lot that would've been done differently.
i think the reason for the still low lib dem vote is that their USP was “honesty and integrity” and going into coalition blew that out of the water
I was talking about this with some former work colleagues the other day - a couple of them were basically political liaison types and we worked cross party on transport matters so dealt with everyone from Greens to Tories.
They said the Lib Dems basically gave up all their principles as soon as they were power sharing, tried not to rock the boat too much although to be fair they did at least delay the Tories in some of the more blatant smash and grab attempts. But yeah, they knocked their entire political careers down the drain for the next 10 years.
Was pleased to see Alan Gibbons and the independents who got chucked out of Labour had a landslide result in Liverpool. Proportionately the Greens have had the best result and I should think a lot of former Labour voters have gravitated that way.
You don’t think that Nick Clegg was seduced by the offer of a ministerial car?
I think he was "seduced" as you put it by giving the LibDems a sniff of power. Sadly he chose the wrong party to form a coalition with.
tjagain
Whats happened in Slough? Anyone know why its so much against the national movements?
The Council became effectively bankrupt had to file for emergency support from government. I assume it's fairly easy to campaign against the incumbents in that position even if there are underlying reasons for it.
Whats happened in Slough? Anyone know why its so much against the national movements?
The Labour-run council effectively declared bankruptcy in 2021 after it amassed a £760m borrowing bill due to poor record keeping. It has hiked up council tax by 10 per cent and is selling up to £600m of assets. Total incompetence has reaped its reward.
Ooh, High Peak (my borough) has gone from NOC to Labour!
+7 Labour
+1 Independent
-6 Tory
-2 Lib Dem
That'll worry our Tory MP... He's on a thin margin as it is.
The Council became effectively bankrupt had to file for emergency support from government. I assume it’s fairly easy to campaign against the incumbents in that position even if there are underlying reasons for it.
tbf the same thing happened in Northampton- the Tory council racked up £1 billion in debts, social services, schools all plummeted to bottom of league tables, they built themselves an amazing new offices that cost £53million but they had to sell to a dodgy offshore company who they then leased it from....
and they still got voted back in
anyway if anyone knows Bracknell this is bonkers!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1654491593531879426
Ooh, High Peak (my borough) has gone from NOC to Labour!
Yup, just seen that.
Unfortunately, Disley is a frontier outpost of Cheshire East, and they've not declared yet 🙁
anyway if anyone knows Bracknell this is bonkers!
Will still be "not great news for Labour" on the BBC... "now, back to the Royals..."
The Tories gaining a council will cheer up Rishi Sunak
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-65493178.amp
Edit: As well as gaining the unitary authority of Slough obviously.
Bring on Kate and Wills for the win!!
Headlone new yesterday is that they went to the pub, how disinterested our politics are. Sky news AI reporting a predicted hung parliament at the GE. Man o man, how many people are prepared to put up with the activities of this shower of cheating lying stealing shits is unreal.
Erewash is no longer blue!
Headlone new yesterday is that they went to the pub, how disinterested our politics are. Sky news AI reporting a predicted hung parliament at the GE
Harper's Bazar completely randomly 🤣 ran a profile of Rose Hanbury this week, the replies were most amusing
https://twitter.com/DanielleLesli17/status/1653940475114536960?s=19
closing on -1000 currently @ -817
Interesting seeing the NOC ones - even there it's a tale of Tory losses.
Stockport remains NOC but they've lost all their Tories.
The tracker I'm watching currently shows -771 seats with 40 councils still to declare.
More good news. More Tory losses here. Given our useless Tory MP has a majority of 100 votes, that’s him on notice 😃
https://twitter.com/gareth_sj/status/1654510853641719809?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
-850-855 @ bbc
Blimey, the Greens have done well this election, not only are they on course to more than double their total number of councillors but they have just won their first ever majority on a council - Mid Suffolk District Council is now under the majority control of the Green Party.
This will provide a huge boost for them in the longer term.
Gove's council has gone LibDem. Please god, if you do exist give us that pleasure on election night.....
And it's a bad day for UKIP so far, they have lost 22 councillors and have yet to win one single council seat. Reform UK haven't done much better with only 6 council seats so far.
This will provide a huge boost for them in the longer term.
It will. If they make a decent job of running the council it’ll put them in a good place come the GE.
Do you not reckon that UKIP/Reform falling over is because the Tories have moved so far right they’ve eaten their vote, and everyone centre right and leftwards has realised what a shit idea Brexit was?
@theotherjonv I like the Surrey Heath result too. I suspect that every house in there will be carpet-bombed with Focus leaflets for the foreseeable.
Guardian says -713 Tories with 38 councils to declare, I don’t think they’re putting the results up until the full council is out though so it’s probably higher. I’m not sure how this can be spun as anything other than a bad night for them - not -1000 but it’s not going to be far off.