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I've just been to the polling station. A few people arrived before me and a few arrived after. 🆔 checked on entry. Pencil in good condition.
I'd be paissed if we all trooped off to spoil our ballot papers and the bloody Tory won by 2 votes to 1 though.
I disagree. It separates ‘can’t be bothered’ from ‘yes, I am bothered but dissatisfied with what any of you are offering’
Like I say, no-one gives a toss that you are dissatisfied.
Walking around door knocking has got to be the most pointless activity.
How many people are home during your canvassing time and actually will answer the door?
Of those, how many are either going to vote and might be swayed by your spiel; or might be convinced to vote by your interaction, when they wouldn’t have before?
That's not the only point of canvassing though. If a candidate knows you are likely to vote for them, that will be recorded. Then, come polling day, the tellers at the polling stations relay back to party HQ who has turned out to vote. If you are known to be likely to vote for a party but didn't turn out to vote yet then you are likely to get a knock or a call during the evening reminding you to get out and vote.
Side note: chatting to the Tory teller at our local polling station, he has absolutely no time for the current government. He seemed as keen as anyone to get rid of them 😂
Edit: just to be clear, given that it's illegal for tellers to talk politics with voters: I was there as a teller too, this was just chat in between getting voter numbers.
Lots of stories of people being turned away.
https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1654080542550130690?s=20
Like I say, no-one gives a toss that you are dissatisfied.
I get that, but if you don't raise a protest, however ineffective, then they absolutely won't.
If a candidate knows you are likely to vote for them, that will be recorded. Then, come polling day, the tellers at the polling stations relay back to party HQ who has turned out to vote. If you are known to be likely to vote for a party but didn’t turn out to vote yet then you are likely to get a knock or a call during the evening reminding you to get out and vote.
I didn’t know that. Didn’t realise they had access to the list of voters. Had assumed canvassing was merely a blanket approach of picking a street (in a statistically useful neighbourhood) and knocking on all doors.
Seems I was wrong about that.
As someone who is fairly outspoken as being a swing voter come GE time, and I’m hopefully quite a swing demographic, I’m possibly more annoyed that no one has ever knocked on my door (when I’ve been in)
I think there's very little knocking on doors now given how polarised some people are getting, I'd imagine the chances of running into a few unpleasant nutjobs each day is quite high.
Just been. Disappointed to see there were no dogs. Other than that, all good and I was 1 of 2 voting at the time. (1:30ish).
No door knocking in the lead up that I noticed either.
Pencil was in excellent condition.
I get that, but if you don’t raise a protest, however ineffective, then they absolutely won’t.
Go to stopthetories.vote
Enter your postcode and it'll give you a breakdown of your local political scene and an indication of how to vote tactically.
That's better than spoiling ballot papers.
If 9500 people write "you're all ****ers" over ballot papers because they somehow think that's "making a statement" and 500 people vote Tory, guess who's going to win...
I’d imagine the chances of running into a few unpleasant nutjobs each day is quite high.
Less than you'd think. I've canvassed on and off since the late 80's and I can count on the fingers of one hand the actual weirdos. If you know your town well enough, you know which doors not to knock on.
If you know your town well enough, you know which doors not to knock on.
Do you send unpopular candidates to go and knock on them whilst standing at a safe distance with popcorn in hand?
Go to <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">stopthetories.vote</span>
Enter your postcode and it’ll give you a breakdown of your local political scene and an indication of how to vote tactically.
That assumes the dissatisfaction's with the Tories alone. I wouldn't suggest spoiling your ballot as a protest against one party, it's a protest that none of them are worth your support / they're all the same etc..... And again making the distinction, that you're prepared to walk down there and spend your time 'voting' as opposed just simply can't be arsed.
Yes, staging a proper naked protest outside the polling station or setting fire to your ballot paper in the town square might be more visible, but this is Britain and writing 'none of the above' in flowery language / green ink / capitals is really rather strong, after all!
If 9500 people write “you’re all *” over ballot papers because they somehow think that’s “making a statement” and 500 people vote Tory, guess who’s going to win…
Again, it's not an anti-Tory position, it's an anti-everyone one. If you feel sufficiently strongly that you spoil your paper then presumably you don't really care who wins because they're all **. If you do care who wins, then vote for them! Or indeed, tactically against them.
it’s a protest that none of them are worth your support / they’re all the same etc…And again making the distinction, that you’re prepared to walk down there and spend your time ‘voting’ as opposed just simply can’t be arsed.
But, again, the only person that cares that you're prepared to walk down there is you. It's not a protest if no-one gives a toss that you're protesting.
It's absolutely your right to do it, but you are literally just wasting your own time.
and if 9499 other people did the same? Became a substantial part of the turn out. At the moment the 'can't be bothered' and 'really pretty ****ed off but don't show it' are all just counted as the other bit of the turnout %
Anyway, enough said, our opinion differs. FWIW I did turn out and did vote, so my 'protest' is academic anyway.
I disagree. It separates ‘can’t be bothered’ from ‘yes, I am bothered but dissatisfied with what any of you are offering’
Which is all well and good if it's observed, recorded and acted upon. Is it? Do we know how many spoiled votes there were in, say, the 2019 GE?
How about 2016? Those stats I do know, the voters in the referendum were as close to 25% each as makes no statistical odds for leave / remain / couldn't vote / could vote but didn't. I don't recall ever seeing a figure for spoiled votes.
Anyway, enough said, our opinion differs.
Yeah, fair enough.
FWIW I did turn out and did vote, so my ‘protest’ is academic anyway.
I'm going later. I'm genuinely stuck between voting for a Labour candidate I know nothing about, but she's not Tory, or a Tory who is local and has a decent record of doing stuff but, you know, Tory. Hmmm...
I think at the count you do get a number for spoiled ballots. The total number of ballots cast for each candidate plus the spoiled ballots should add up to the total number of ballot papers handed out
Which is all well and good if it’s observed, recorded and acted upon. Is it?
I think the answer is yes, yes, no.
I disagree. It separates ‘can’t be bothered’ from ‘yes, I am bothered but dissatisfied with what any of you are offering’
I agree... But spoilt votes aren't reported on properly.
I think spoilt votes should be counted and reported on, but they are not so it's no different to simply not voting at all.
But spoilt votes aren’t reported on properly.
The total number of spoilt ballot papers are counted and reported.
Edit: Do you mean by the press? As far as I'm aware the returning officer always declares the total number of spoilt ballot papers.
But spoilt votes aren’t reported on properly.
What do you mean by properly?
They are definitely counted and recorded - IDK if any analysis is done on them after that though, on the way it was spoiled. eg: You can spoil a vote by voting for too many people, which would to me mean not knowing what process to follow; vs leaving it blank which is a deliberate action. Both are spoiled votes, but different reasons.
I just did a little Wiki-read too - interesting (to me) is that AIUI writing on your paper doesn't automatically spoil it. If it's still clear who you are voting for it's not spoiled, unless in doing so you somehow defeat the secrecy of the ballot by identifying yourself.
So in theory you could put an X in your favoured candidate's box; write 'is a *' alongside all the other candidates (but leave their boxes clear) and it'll be counted. If you write 'tojv thinks you're a *' alongside them, then spoiled.
I'm sad I just found that out, looking forward to next year's GE even more now.
They are definitely counted and recorded – IDK if any analysis is done on them after that though, on the way it was spoiled
Which is the flaw with using it to protest.
It can mean:
you are protesting.
you arent capable of ticking a box or boxes.
the ballot paper was a confusing mess.
GE the last isnt generally a factor but in some local ones where you have ten thousand candidates and x votes it can be.
Voted earlier. No Libdem, so Tory, Labour or Green.
Our local tory Councillor is good on the local things, but Brexit, Truss, Johnson, Raab, Braverman etc - so he can get in the sea.
Had to be Green, really - sod all difference it will make to anything.
Choice of 2 from 2 tories and 2 libdems - can't see many people splitting their allegiance to vote for one of each.
2 orange rosettes on way in checking I had id, 2 assistants directing me to the appropriate desk to get my ballot, 3 people at said desk checking details and handing out ballots, only me actually voting.
I guess I mean spoilt votes should be counted as part of the result. As in deducted proportional to the actual votes
So much for ID checks - went to vote, proferred driving licence, wasn't even looked at.
Which is the flaw with using it to protest.
It can mean:
you are protesting.
you arent capable of ticking a box or boxes.
the ballot paper was a confusing mess.
that's why I wonder if there's any analysis done after, even if it isn't reported.
Another thing - voter fraud, which is what photo ID is supposed to prevent, but the report I read indicated there is incredibly low levels - like fractions of a %
Given what we had before where you turned up and tell the official your name and address, they cross your name off a list, give you a paper - mark an X in the box. I'd have thought it very easy to get away with low level cheating - eg: if you know someone is away or not going to vote you could send someone to use their vote. Unless the person is known to the officials, or you do something dumb like keep going back under different names, or send a 25 year old man in under the name of a 75 year old..... On that basis I'm not sure those reported numbers are right either - less than one per constituency?
I don't think requiring some form of ID is necessarily a bad thing, but based on reports of numbers being turned away vs the fraud numbers, maybe a rethink on a more basic level like a bank card, etc., rather than full on photo ID?
An interesting stat for you: The number of Tory MPs convicted of sex offences in this parliament alone is greater than the number of people convicted of voter ID fraud since 2010
Maybe you should have to prove that you're not a convicted sex pest before you're allowed to vote?
I don’t think requiring some form of ID is necessarily a bad thing, but based on reports of numbers being turned away vs the fraud numbers
Its supposed to put people off. If you were worried about fraud then you would ban postal voting first since thats a lot easier to manipulate although even there the evidence for manipulation indicates its uncommon. Turning up requires far more effort and more risk.
Is there going to be some fraud - sure. However the question is whether enough to alter the outcome and what are the costs of securing it. How many people would be prevented from voting?
Our local green candidate was there today with his dog. For our household they've been the most active. Got a flyer from Labour and the Conservatives about 2 days ago. Not heard anything from the Lib Dems.
https://twitter.com/GreensHasland/status/1654094285220741122?s=20
Burt seems to be channeling his inner Bowie with those eyes - maybe he's really a diamond dog rather than a green one.
Seems a clear case of voting fraud there. Announcing the dog has voted!
Just been. I was the 63rd person they had had in all day. Safe Tory seat with Sir Gav as our useless MP. I voted LD.
Well, for the first time ever, I've just voted for the Labour candidate.
If the dog is wearing the rosette, doesn't that technically mean he's the candidate?
Just voted after picking son up from scouts and 2 people in front of me turned away for no ID, both ethnic minorities, both looked like they'd just come off shift, the tellers took their details so the numbers could be recorded, the woman was off to get her passport, the bloke just said he wouldn't bother
Pretty depressing to see
Its exactly what the tories intended. Classic voter supression
I had a discussion with them at our polling station.
I asked if they were recording the numbers turned away, but the told me no one had been turned away yet. So instead of lying and saying i haven't got id i was able to make 3 votes (the number allowed) to vote against the parasitic blue shits
Just finished telling for Labour. Feeling really positive, lots of good feedback, luckily the Tory candidate was a nutter magnet so we got off lightly.
There was a 'Reform'* candidate there. Did not speak to a single person in three hours. In a quieter moment he said it would be his first and last time standing. I couldn't possibly figure out what he was getting out of the whole thing. He just seemed utterly miserable.
*no, me neither.
Sounds a bit dodgy... Is it a Conservative ward?
We had a visit from Labour asking which way we would vote. She thanked us for our support and about two day later a Labour ‘sorry we missed you card’ through the door, I assume to make sure we’d still bother to vote.
‘sorry we missed you card’ through the door, I assume to make sure we’d still bother to vote.
You are just a number.
Just watched an hour or so of BBC coverage and not a mention of problems with voter ID or people being turned away. Just an endless stream of repetitive and inconsequential drivel.
I asked at my polling station how many had been turned away due to lack of ID. They said "one," which is one too many but considerably lower than I was expecting.
maybe a rethink on a more basic level like a bank card, etc., rather than full on photo ID?
How would a bank card work? There’s nothing to really identify the person holding it, other than their name. I don’t have a passport, but I do have a driver’s license, and I also have a concessionary bus pass with a photo, which is perfectly acceptable, and anyone can apply for a voter card for free.
I honestly don’t know why some people start clutching their pearls at any mention of carrying some sort of photo identification, it’s just a useful thing to have, even if it’s just for picking up parcels from the Post Office, where it’s always a requirement.
It’s come in handy a few time for proving that yes, I am actually old enough to be able to take advantage of the cheaper concessions entry to a venue.
Yes, I know it’s all very British to complain about the indignity of actually having to prove who you are in your own country, goddammit, but there are plenty of people all to ready and willing to take advantage of people not having some sort of official ID.
CountZero
Full Member
maybe a rethink on a more basic level like a bank card, etc., rather than full on photo ID?How would a bank card work? There’s nothing to really identify the person holding it, other than their name. I don’t have a passport, but I do have a driver’s license, and I also have a concessionary bus pass with a photo, which is perfectly acceptable, and anyone can apply for a voter card for free.
I honestly don’t know why some people start clutching their pearls at any mention of carrying some sort of photo identification, it’s just a useful thing to have, even if it’s just for picking up parcels from the Post Office, where it’s always a requirement.It’s come in handy a few time for proving that yes, I am actually old enough to be able to take advantage of the cheaper concessions entry to a venue.
Yes, I know it’s all very British to complain about the indignity of actually having to prove who you are in your own country, goddammit, but there are plenty of people all to ready and willing to take advantage of people not having some sort of official ID.
There are two separate objections, as far as I understand:
First is the requirement to carry some sort of identification, photo or otherwise, at all times. As far as I can tell nobody has actually proposed this, but it's the imagined scenario that I think most people are objecting to. I too would have an issue if "not carrying ID card" became some sort of offence - but it's not really relevant, as nobody is suggesting it.
Second is the fact that the GOP are using this exact tactic in the US (particularly the south I believe) to suppress voting. There is a strong correlation between people with no photo ID, the lower socio-economic groups, and traditional democrat voters. I'm not sure the same correlation exists in the UK - but it's what triggering most people I suspect, as is the rationale behind the move (voter fraud) which has been 100% manufactured by the GOP and used as wedge issue in the US.
Like you, I personally don't have an issue with producing ID, but I also don't support the introduction of this requirement - if only because it's a potential barrier for people trying to vote (even if somebody just forgets to bring it) just when we need more people to engage with democracy, and there is zero evidence that there's actually a problem here that need to be addressed.
First is the requirement to carry some sort of identification, photo or otherwise, at all times. As far as I can tell nobody has actually proposed this, but it’s the imagined scenario that I think most people are objecting to.
I thought this dated back to 1952 when the ID cards were scrapped after they had been required through most of WW2.
This archive article makes an interesting juxtaposition to the current* argument - there were plenty of options available for showing ID.
"To-day instructions were sent out to counter clerks that they were no longer to ask for identity cards. Where identification is required clerks will now be instructed to ask for a passport, a pass card issued by a Government department, a long-term season ticket, a driving licence, a membership card for a trade union or trade association, or, for members of her Majesty’s forces, a pay-book. Officers’ identity cards were not mentioned in the list but will presumably be accepted."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/22/identity-id-cards-abolished-1952
Maybe it just needs another war?
EDIT: This is what I was thinking of: https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-abolition-of-identity-cards
"When Clarence Willcock, a dry cleaning manager, was stopped on suspicion of speeding, the police demanded to see his ID card. He refused on principle, and was convicted and fined at a magistrate's court. He took the case to the Court of Appeal, and although the judgement against him was upheld, Lord Chief Justice Lord Goddard commented that the Act was intended for emergency uses, now over, and should not be invoked on trivial matters. He further remarked that demanding production of the card for its own sake tended “to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs." Although he upheld the decision of the lower court, he declined to award costs against Mr Willcock."
*20+ years?
You are just a number
I’m not number 6, at least I don’t think I am.
It’s come in handy a few time for proving that yes, I am actually old enough to be able to take advantage of the cheaper concessions entry to a venue.
Voter ID in the UK isn’t there to discourage your age group from voting.
It wasn't a 'clutching of pearls' about carrying ID, as it happens I'm OK with this although I understand why others have objections. It was a comment that we've gone from a system where you had to show nothing at all, just give name and address to the official, and yet according to the data had virtually no voter fraud, to one that has seen many (hundreds? thousands? maybe ten thousands?) turned away and denied their vote.
Yes, it was publicised and yes you could have got your voter ID even if you didn't have a passport or DL, so the argument about many lower socioeconomic voters being prevented loses some of its steam, but there is still no doubt it is making it harder. Which may have been the point, that's also a discussion to have.
The fact it seems that anecdotally many of the turned away are older, and hence more-likely-to-be-tory voters - well we can laugh and say that it has backfired if that was the aim, but in an open and democratic society everyone should be entitled to their vote. And reports also say that the more marginalised (example - it is difficult for TG people to get official docs in their name) that are disproportionately affected.
Locally tje people staffing the poling station are really up themselves
Ok, so you have a process to follow but your not better than me, your not above me, and there's no need to be a complete rocket polisher.
All you have to is fimd my name on a list and give me a pencil
No need to be rude about it, this may be why turnouts are low.
You are made to feel that you are a problem out to jeopardise the will of the people. Might just be here, might just be me rubbing them up the wrong way by being nice. Who knows.
Although it’s a bad night for the Conservatives, it does appear to be the apocolypse some were expecting. I guess you only have to look at other Banana republics to see the despots remain, but they usually have an underlying set of non politic people shall we say to “encourage” supporters to vote.
My heart sinks with what it is that’s been exposed such as lies, embezzlement, self propelled riches, misuse of public monies and resources, the pillaging of our country yet people still vote them in, it really concerns me for the GE, enough to think about making plans to leave the country. That of course is a sensualist statement, but the despair is very strong.
Although it’s a bad night for the Conservatives, it does appear to be the apocolypse some were expecting
assuming you mean doesn't - early results say they've lost about 1/3 of their overall controls and councillors. Given the last time these were held was also a 'disaster' leading to May being ousted, it's not looking good. Can't lose what you don't have, etc.
Locally tje people staffing the poling station are really up themselves
At my polling station I asked if a picture of my face with the word "**** the Tories" written underneath was acceptable ID and she laughed. One of them said that they were asked to remain neutral about it but were all pretty cheesed off with having to ask for it.
Only person I've heard of unable to vote due to the ID requirement was a mate who couldn't find the folder they keep their ID docs in - seems his wife had moved it when getting her passport for her trip to India 🤣🤣
But it's an obvious way of making it harder for a certain demographic to vote.
If I'm reading it right, two of the biggest tory losses are in Stoke and NW Leics. With MPs Gullis and (until recently) Bridgen - two leading culture war a-holes. Is this a sign that the culture war crap is now just winding people up and they are finally realising what has been going on?
I do hope so.
assuming you mean doesn’t – early results say they’ve lost about 1/3 of their overall controls and councillors.
That's correct sorry. 1/3 today though, is that enough to lose a GE in 18 months or so? Can Starmer call for one earlier on the basis of lost confidence in the government?
two of the biggest tory losses are in Stoke and NW Leics
And Medway, a 20 year conservative haven.
Can Starmer call for one earlier on the basis of lost confidence in the government?
He can but the tories can just laugh at him and refuse
This is a disaster for the tories no matter the spin. They had lost a huge number of seats last time these were up for election. to lose another big number of seats from a low point is a disaster
Windsor and Maidenhead. Nice
My local council (Dudley) remains Tory, my local councillor is ex ukip 🙄
My local council (Dudley) remains Tory
Arse, I have a Sales opportunity with Dudley, always easier to sell to a Labour administration 😀
He can but the tories can just laugh at him and refuse
I thought this was the case 🙁
Off to my local count soon to see how I've done.
All very surreal so far. But it was pretty clear yesterday how demoralised the Tories are here, hardly seen any of them out and almost zero signs up.
Good, so they should be.
You standing?
Where? Post a link, we're nosey.
South Kesteven - my local council has gone from conservative to hung.
Lots of other areas around here stayed conservative though. Bah.
Beth Rigby reckons the Tories consider anything over 700 seats lost as a disaster. Not the 1000 they were bandying about. Potential for it being around 1100 losses!
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1654377846414901248?t=LVNEssOPXyg90V-hCmnBWQ&s=19
But v difficult to translate locals to GE even this close in
Walked over 21 miles yesterday on Get out the Vote.
Big breakfast this morning - off to the count later
Locally tje people staffing the poling station are really up themselves
I've never encountered this. They're usually ordinary council staff on a paid day's leave from their regular job.
Anyway, whilst everything points to a proper kicking for the tories, I'm not so sure that Labour is doing as well as it could. Plenty of votes going to lib dems.
Voter ID in the UK isn’t there to discourage your age group from voting.
The fact that most of the list of acceptable forms of ID are variations on bus passes probably confirms this.
If a pensioners bus pass is acceptable, why not Student ID, young persons railcards, etc.
Plenty of votes going to lib dems.
Mine did.
And will remain that way until I actually see what actual Labour's plans are. So far it's still 'we're not Tories, but we'll keep a lot of what they've done'.
Lib Dems always do better in locals as tactical voting work much better. Harder for them in GE.
two of the biggest tory losses are in Stoke and NW Leics
Labour have taken Medway as well, which was a bit of bellwether council. Labour last took overall control in 1996.
https://twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1654359303069872129?
Lib Dems always do better in locals as tactical voting work much better.
Or the fact that Lib Dems and Greens do actually work hard and have reasonable policies at local government level...
Lib Dems always do better in locals as tactical voting work much better. Harder for them in GE.
It's true of greens & lib Dems to labour
& Ukip/bxp/rfm to Tories
Also true to a limited extent in GE opinion polls, people would like to vote for smaller parties, but once they get in the polling booth they know it's a 2 horse race
I voted Lib Dem. Existing seat around here and they're dead good - visible in the community, monthly newsletters, quick responses to questions etc, able to give sensible answers to my grillings when they knock on the door etc. In the lead up to the elections they were the only party to even drop a leaflet through the door (and followed it up with the door knocking stuff). Not a sign of the Labour (as invisible/toothless as they are on a national level) or Tory (spit) or Green parties so voted Lib Dem (I think for the first time in my life).
South Kesteven – my local council has gone from conservative to hung.
Having been brought up there, that's a bit of a loss for the Tories.
Beth Rigby reckons the Tories consider anything over 700 seats lost as a disaster.
These are the same seats that were contested in 2019 when May was in charge, and they lost heavily then as well. I think there was some hope amongst the Tories that it meant that what remained in this years vote were more robustly conservative areas, If they're looking at +700 seats loss then their support has continued to fall away more than they probably feared.