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Brady was being called a lier by more than on jurno when he turned his back.
Should have gone last Friday with the chancellor. Having crashed the economy they should have both headed for the cliff.
Just for perspective, the BT pension fund lost £11bn of assets in the gilts chaos. That's just one fund. And it is real money.
Brady just said members will be voting. I think we all know that’s not going to happen.
Dunno. They might just be careful in the choices they give them. I did think they could put Putin as the alternate but he would probably stand a good chance of winning given the electorate.
Whoever becomes the next PM by the sheer fact they want the gig, at the current time, means they are not fit for the job.
Fighting to be King of a bowl full of dust.
agreed Poopscoop
You blamed Brexit further up the thread. Anyway, I’d better stop feeding the troll.
I blamed Brexit? Are you having a laugh?
I suggest you read all the threads that I have been saying about Brexit since Brexit. I have been consistent throughout and NEVER once blame Brexit.
Brexit, Covid-19 and Ukraine/Russia war are the contributing factors.
But if you read carefully you will realise that I mentioned about energy crisis. Brexit is NOT an energy crisis but a bureaucratic one (EU side).
Brexit is NOT an energy crisis but a bureaucratic one.
Actually it's an existential crisis in the politics of this country. COVID was priced into the markets, Ukraine was priced into the markets, and so was the fallout for increased energy prices. What was not priced is two free-market right wing loons deciding a unilateral uncosted fiscal policy. That and that alone was enough for them to go. That they both got there by Brexit ideology (PM was a retainer remember) just defines the magnitude of the political challenge we face as a country.
Brexit, Covid-19 and Ukraine/Russia war are the contributing factors.
So you're blaming Brexit, the Pandemic and Putin? I would as well, to a large degree... that plus the tools we charged with running the UK. But then I'm not one of these "Strong Leaders" you obsess over and claim don't discharge blame away from themselves and towards others (when often that's all they do).
Krishnan Guru-Murthy has been taken off air for a week by Channel 4 News after he was recorded using an offensive insult about a government minister.
From c4.
another casualty of all this I hope he gets back on the tv
Boris Johnson said to be considering running!
So you’re blaming Brexit, the Pandemic and Putin? I would as well, to large degree… that plus the tools we charged with running the UK. But the I’m not one of these “Strong Leaders” you obsess over.
No, I am NOT blaming Brexit. That would be as silly as saying the energy crisis is not related to the Ukraine/Russia war. The sequence of contributing (accumulating) factors are all difficult events to handle but it is the energy crisis (called it crisis because the backup is limited) that brings the reality home.
Yes, most of the opposing views just refuse to accept that the Ukriane/Russia is the nail.
I say strong leaders because the current lot (all parties) do not have someone that can actually solve the problems. Mind you very good at blaming though.
Putin's war is affecting every and all countries. What's different about the UK...?
Krishnan Guru-Murthy has been taken off air for a week by Channel 4 News after he was recorded using an offensive insult about a government minister.
Was funny though
Public Enemy called this in 1991: https://open.spotify.com/track/5r5uZvXHbE4X6CdhnSATtX?si=95a5641eded040c4&nd=1
Can't Truss It
Putin’s war is effecting every and all countries. What’s different about the UK…?
Yes, affecting many countries but it is here (on this STW forum) that we "debate" about it, while the government is in denial that the plan has backfired.
another casualty of all this I hope he gets back on the tv
I look forward to the normal right wing nuts shouting about cancel culture and snowflakes.
while the government is in denial that the plan has backfired
Which plan? Hang on.. why am I engaging... I'm stopping now.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy has been taken off air for a week by Channel 4 News after he was recorded using an offensive insult about a government minister.
Just shows we’re living in a post-truth world 🙄
Which plan? Hang on.. why am I engaging… I’m stopping now.
Sanctions on a country (Russia) that has a strong position in energy contribution. Take them out and the effect will be felt in a domino way.
Engaging? More like denial but that's individual's choice.
Let's see if critics have a solution out.
Ah... back to your "Strong Leader" view of the world. "Don't resist Putin..." you were more fun when you were all excited about Trump.
Ah… back to your “Strong Leader” view of the world. “Don’t resist Putin…” you were more fun when you were all excited about Trump.
I have not changed my views though.
Let's see if your transactional leader will solve the current energy crisis.
Christ, imagine this being how history will remember you.
https://twitter.com/TheBishF1/status/1583088199693664257
Christ, imagine this being how history will remember you.
For 100k/yr I could live with that 🙂
Brexit is NOT an energy crisis but a bureaucratic one (EU side).
The only bureaucratic problems have been caused solely by the UK's decision to leave the Customs Union.
UK Ideological zeal has got us to here, nothing to do with the EU whatsoever.
Ethelred the Unready.
I know literally nothing about that king of old, other than the fact that he was surprised, possibly by a cake.
History will remember Truss in a similar light, I feel.
Temporary Truss?
Transient Truss?
Truss the Perfunctory?
Krishnan Guru-Murthy has been taken off air for a week by Channel 4 News after he was recorded using an offensive insult about a government minister.
From c4.
another casualty of all this I hope he gets back on the tv
Steve Baker has one of this personalities that perfectly encapsulates the word ****
if you saw him crossing the road it would be a public duty to run the **** over, then back up and hit him again.
BJ coming back as leader then being forced to resign the following week by the select Committee for lying to parliament is surely the next step in this farce isn't it?
Ethelred the Unready was in power for 37 years!
That's approximately 300 times longer than Temporary Truss
EDIT
Just been on a wiki dive. There are some disturbing parallels...
Ethelred the Unready was king
Deposed and sent into exile by an upstart who only lasted a few weeks
Came back from exile and returned to power
Temporary Truss?
An Acrow Prop then. 😁
History will remember Truss in a similar light, I feel.
Who?
I said back when the final two went to the party members... when people of the future are asked to list the Prime Ministers of the UK, nearly everyone will forget to name her. Even fewer will if her name is supposed to be sandwiched between "Johnson" and "Johnson" (don't think it will, but if it is, no one will remember her name... it'll be an answer on Only Connect).
BJ coming back as leader then being forced to resign the following week by the select Committee for lying to parliament is surely the next step in this farce isn’t it?
Sounds about right!
She will look back on her days when she was burying the queen as her best days in office, it really was off the cliff edge after that.
Yet there's sufficient racist bigoted unethical selfish Tory voters in the country to think it's OK for the lying cheating deceitful bag of piish and shiite to come back.
He should have been hung, drawn, quartered and his balls ballsack put on a pike on tower bridge.
Temporary Truss?
An Acrow Prop then. 😁
*inserts wolf of Wall Street applause gif here*
I’m stealing that
Yet there’s sufficient racist bigoted unethical selfish Tory voters in the country to think it’s OK for the lying cheating deceitful bag of piish and shiite to come back.
I am not sure if racist bigoted unethical selfish Tory voter is a fair description of me but it would be fair to say that I would be quite happy if Johnson was reinstalled as Tory leader.
When Johnson was Tory leader I considered that it would be a disaster for ordinary working people if he was replaced by the Tory Party as his replacement would be certain to be significantly more right-wing than him, which of course is precisely what happened.
Whoever replaces Truss will almost certainly also be more right-wing than Johnson, Sunak definitely. When he was chancellor Sunak was frustrated that Johnson wasn't making "difficult decisions", in other words slashing government spending aka austerity.
There is little chance I reckon of Johnson being reinstalled as leader though, imo it is way too early since he was dumped.
Therefore brutal austerity causing misery to millions during a severe cost of living crises is pretty certain imo. Except for one thing which changes everything - I very much doubt that the Tories will be able to put off the next general for another two years.
If they attempt to imo the humiliation of a 30 plus percent Labour lead caused by Truss and her mini budget will continue. Voters won't tolerate the Tories repeatedly changing leaders with no mandate, especially as things can't possibly get better.
I am not sure if racist bigoted unethical selfish Tory voter is a fair description of me,l but it would be fair to say that I would be quite happy if Johnson was reinstalled as Tory leader.
+1
But remember, Johnson was the one whose colleagues found him so appalling they ganged up and forced him out despite the fact he was their electoral golden goose. How the hell is he going to run a government if he comes back?
Well he won't come back.
Edit: Also remember that Johnson's downfall started with the Tory vote to protect Owen Paterson, up to that point Labour has been trailing in the polls since the general election.
The coup de grace that finished him off was him elevating Chris Pincher, the disgraced Tory MP, to the post of Chief Government Whip. That was when his career as PM ended.
It is rather ironic that it was Johnson defence of other Tory MPs which got him in so much trouble, rather than directly his own behaviour
I think whichever tory can outrun a combine harvester whilst carrying a bull elephant seal should be prime minister
Boris promised a lot for working people and delivered sweet **** all, his spending all ended up in the hands of the corporations and his mates, while services suffered. The front line suffered austerity without the reduction in government spending it normally entails because it was all filtered into the hands of the already wealthy and greedy.
I am really surprised anyone is still fooled by his act of promising everything, and replacing failed delivery with more promises and bluster.
I think whichever tory can outrun a combine harvester whilst carrying a
bull elephant sealJohnson should be prime minister
FTFY
Bring Mr Blobby out of retirement.
Appropriate trolling by Pointless on BBC1 just now - "British prime ministers who served more than 2 years"
.
I’m going to stick with my prediction from a week ago of Kemi Badenoch.
I dunno, the betting odds on the Babadook are 28/1
I am really surprised anyone is still fooled by his act of promising everything, and replacing failed delivery with more promises and bluster.
And I am still surprised that anyone should believe that another Tory leader would have been better for working people than Johnson.
I would be genuinely interested in the names of Tory politicians that people feel could have been credible alternatives to Johnson, and had significant support within the Tory Party. I know of none.
And I am certainly pleased that Johnson was Tory leader during the pandemic instead of Truss, Sunak, or any of the other alternatives, which could reasonably have been Tory leaders.
Because that was the choice..... Johnson or another Tory with huge support from the party.
There is no one left in the Conservative Parliamentary Party that has the support from within their party, and will deliver for working people. That includes Johnson. He is not an exception in that regard, and is worse than most. Take off the rose tinted glasses… most of the rest of country has.
I wish the monarchy had more power in this sort of thing.
The new leader going to King Charles asking for permission to form a Government and Charles just saying "no, you're all rubbish at it, you can all just **** off".
For sale. Two exclamation marks. BNWT
and is worse than most.
Well go on then, give me a name of someone who would be better.
I name Johnson as my preferred choice to lead the Tory Party, if he is worse than most naming someone else with a good chance of becoming leader should be fairly easy.
If you look at the last list of 8 contenders for the job they overwhelmingly look worse to me. Which one would you have picked to steer the UK through the pandemic? Since you claim he is worse than most.
Edit: btw your reference to rose tinted glasses is interesting Kelvin. Because I often feel that I am trying to debate with people wearing blinkers ..... "I hate all Tories, I can't say one is better than another because I hate them all"
It is a nice simple and reassuring attitude but it doesn't confront reality. EG, Liz Truss is considerably worse than Boris Johnson. That is the reality - not all Tories are identical and nor are their effects on people's lives. Open your eyes.
you'd rather Charles was in charge? could be interesting
if he is worse than most naming someone else with a good chance of becoming leader should be fairly easy
Just written down ten immediately. I’ll post it here if your ever tell us who the Labour Party should replace Starmer with.
Which one would you have picked to steer the UK through the pandemic?
All accounts say that Johnson had to be pushed into doing anything during the pandemic, by his ministers, by his advisors, by the scientists, by civil servants… by the opposition. He wanted to sit back and let the bodies pile high… he got his wish, even though it could still have been far worse if hadn’t been corralled into eventually taking measures, especially during the winter wave. He killed thousands, and damaged the lives of many more.
Engaging? More like denial but that’s individual’s choice.
The only denial I’m seeing is from you. The climate crisis is real and immediate action needs to be taken. It should be front and centre in every single news bulletin and the primary mandate of all countries and political parties. Everything else pales in comparison.
Just written down ten immediately. I’ll post it here if your ever tell us....
Wow, we're playing a game now. And apparently I'm playing with several people it's become "us".
You know very well what position with regards to Starmer as Labour leader is, so why are you asking something which we have repeatedly gone over and over again? It hasn't changed.
You have told us that what you think of Starmer, but that talk of replacing him is irrelevant to you because the problem is the Labour Party.
Well, the problem here is the Tory Party. I don’t care who they pick, as long as it results in speeding up the entropy in the parliamentary party, resulting in a general election and a new government with a Labour PM at its helm.
They have people who can lead them better than Johnson. I don’t think they have anyone who can pull them together and hold off and win the next general election. And I don’t want them to. I want them out. ASAP.
All accounts say....
Ah the irrefutable "all accounts say".
By their own accounts this is what a couple of Johnson's minister had to say of his handling of the pandemic. When they were both tipped to replace him:
https://www.ft.com/content/29c44cda-47b7-499d-8e57-5b84900a7a30
https://mobile.twitter.com/guardian/status/1562842337448890368
Yes some of his ministers weren't happy with Johnsons - according to them he went to far, with listening to scientists, lockdowns, etc
Which one would you have picked to steer the UK through the pandemic?
I was going to say "Johnson steered us through the pandemic"? But @kelvin puts it much better.
All accounts say that Johnson had to be pushed into doing anything during the pandemic, by his ministers, by his advisors, by the scientists, by civil servants… by the opposition. He wanted to sit back and let the bodies pile high… he got his wish, even though it could still have been far worse if hadn’t been corralled into eventually taking measures, especially during the winter wave. He killed thousands, and damaged the lives of many more.
some of his ministers weren’t happy with Johnson
The ones courting the votes of Tory members who were against the measures he belatingly put in place? Right oh. Anyway, the time for arguing with people who claim that Johnson “got all the big calls right” on the pandemic is over, I’m not interested.
And I am certainly pleased that Johnson was Tory leader during the pandemic instead of Truss, Sunak, or any of the other alternatives, which could reasonably have been Tory leaders.
Truss and Sunak didn't run for leadership in 2019.
The people who filled out the top 5 were Hunt, Gove, Javid and Rory Stewart, all of whom would have handled the pandemic more competently than Johnson, and none of which would have declared 'Let the bodies pile high in their thousands'.
Good point Doris, and a reminder of just how far we've fallen.
Generally speaking people wait several years before they attempt to rewrite history. Now it seems to have been reduced to about 10 months.
https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnsons-tory-rebellion-coronavirus/
U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson suffered the biggest parliamentary rebellion of his premiership Tuesday and had to rely on opposition support to pass plans for tighter coronavirus restrictions.
The measure passed thanks to the support of the opposition Labour Party, by 369 votes to 126.
Despite having a huge Commons majority Johnson had to rely on the Labour Party to get important legislation through to protect lives and protect the NHS. Because such was the opposition within the Tory Party.
The idea that another likely Tory leader such as Truss or Sunak would have been better is daft. Truss has rubbished Johnson's pandemic strategy as being too draconian and Sunak has rebuked Johnson for listening to scientists too much.
Johnson was repeated condemned by the right-wing loonies in his party and right-wing loony tabloid columnists, with their talk of "covid socialism" and "corbyn-lite".
Not all Tories are the same. If the polls are to be believed millions agree with me that Truss is worse than Johnson was. It's okay to say that you think Johnson was better, it doesn't make you a Tory. Well not unless you are a 10 year old in a school playground perhaps.
Truss and Sunak didn’t run for leadership in 2019.
The people who filled out the top 5 were Hunt, Gove, Javid and Rory Stewart,
When Johnson was PM the alternatives were people like Truss and Sunak, which is precisely why they both topped the leadership poll.
Getting into a time machine and going back two or three years was not an option.
For simplicity let's stick with reality.
It was Johnson who was responsible for the rapid decline of standards within the party, leading us to exactly where we are now. This didn't happens overnight, it's his legacy.
Who would be better? Well the Tory that ripped the PCP a new one on TV last night. He might look for the talent and do what he said needs to be done. Would they be exciting, I hope not but they might do a job.
Well the Tory that ripped the PCP a new one on TV last night.
Charles Walker? He won't be throwing his hat in the ring, he won't even be standing as an MP next general election.
I guess the likely Tory leadership contenders will be similar to last time, I don't know if Priti Patel will change her mind, I doubt it, I think Ben Wallace has ruled himself out, and I think Jeremy Hunt has too.
Yep it the exclusive club of those that want the job shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it
Charles Walker is going so it would be beholden upon him to make the Tories re-electable so a party that works and is doing a "good" job.
Yes some of his ministers weren’t happy with Johnsons – according to them he went to far, with listening to scientists, lockdowns, etc
It was always too little and too late. If that was the best with 200,000 deaths or more thank **** we didn't have anyone who was worse. He.Was.Hopeless
As a beacon of how an island should handle a pandemic see New Zealand.
paul scully, minister for (destroying) local government, is said to have '...expressed his relief at truss's departure'.
Having recently accepted his appointment by his, soon to be, ex-leader.
What did he 'express' and where did he express it?
Another stinking hypocrite.
Watching Newsnight, the people she’s come out to publicly defend her are Christopher ‘upskirt’ Chope and Peter Bone
No-one else
With friends like those…
Remember when we used to hear about the Truss bounce?
https://twitter.com/PeoplePolling/status/1583343851150114817?t=VmGVB81IiV_BdoZ8wT3XiQ&s=19
Got to admire the consistency of the Daily Mail throughout all this haven't you?!
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status/1583382657077215235?t=FXhNSDeJoJXqYOIkrEdpUg&s=19
Can the King deny a request to form a new government and mandate an immediate GE?
@ernielynch
Just looking at your posting regarding Johnson's performance during the pandemic and how no other prospective Tory leader would have done better... Do you genuinely believe this?
Running against Johnson were:
Gove (Unpopular but capable - certainly more capable than Johnson)
Hancock (Useless and corrupt).
Harper (Who knows, perhaps not enough ministerial experience - also a bit of a right wing headbanger)
Hunt (Probably not popular with the electorate after Junior Doctors situation but less corrupt than Johnson, and far more serious when it comes to making decisions)
Javid (Probably would have at least moved quickly when advised by experts - not particularly popular with the electorate though)
Leadsom (Awful option)
McVey (Even worse)
Raab (The sooner this intellectual void disappears the better, thin skinned and unprincipled).
Stewart (Probably the best option on this list but politically naive. Would have done the best job but not willing to shaft enough people to get the job).
So yeah, there certainly were people running who would have done a better job and not lied, prevaricated, or allowed corruption on such a grand scale.
Can the King
Technically I think yes, practically no, assuming they can show they have the confidence of the house, in theory he could ask them to demonstrate they have that confidence mind.
Seems I missed about 4 billion pages yesterday, did something happen or was Brexit mentioned again?
ErnieLynch
Not all Tories are the same. If the polls are to be believed millions agree with me that Truss is worse than Johnson was. It’s okay to say that you think Johnson was better, it doesn’t make you a Tory. Well not unless you are a 10 year old in a school playground perhaps
Better and worse just don't make any sense in this context.
And I am still surprised that anyone should believe that another Tory leader would have been better for working people than Johnson.
Theres many who would be better people tpo represent you... but probably not a better leader of the tory party for regular people I'd would certainly agree, but that says everything you need to know about the current state of the party; the best they have is still well below par.
That however is why Boris will be the next PM. He's clearly going to get over the 100 line, and will walk the public vote. For all the bad things he did, he remains the best the conservatives have to offer and is very popular with the bipolar conservative members that somehow managed to lurch from Boris to Liz... the polar opposites.