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Energy-wise and long term it needs to be small scales renewables on a massive scale. Probably with some level of local storage.
And yet just two miles up the road from me people are losing their shit because a large solar farm is planned.
On land you can barely see from any road, and land that would in all likelihood be used for housing in the next 5-10 years otherwise.
I’m sure I heard a touch of thatchers twang in that speech, where she talks deep.
Do you think she’s being having speech lessons to make her sound more like thatcha?
Thatcher famously had extensive speech coaching from someone at the Royal National Theatre to make herself sound both more authorative and less whinny, but I doubt Truss has gone to that extreme.
Good to see the same posters giving a new Tory leader the benefit of the doubt. Only fair I suppose, it’s not like she’s been in government the whole time they’ve been making those of us on lower incomes poorer while filling the pockets of their backers, bribers and contacts.
Energy-wise and long term it needs to be small scales renewables on a massive scale. Probably with some level of local storage.
They could/should write into law tommorow, that ALL new builds have to have solar panels on the roof. No exceptions. Solar panels are cheap, dont contain rare earth elements, dont require any maintenance (other than a wipe down if they get filthy, but cant imagine thats beyond the scope of a windowcleaner).
same goes for grey water or rain water recycling.
The only reason i can imagine that simple efficiencies are not legal requirements, is because messers Taylor, Wimpey and Barratt are good chums with the government.
land that would in all likelihood be used for housing in the next 5-10 years otherwise.
That's not really a bad thing. We need to build a lot more new homes, all of them with solar panels.
**** it, bring back council houses and drop the right to buy.
Good to see the same posters giving a new Tory leader the benefit of the doubt. Only fair I suppose, it’s not like she’s been in government the whole time they’ve been making those of us on lower incomes poorer while filling the pockets of their backers, bribers and contacts.
I think it's the opposite. Too many folk have called her a disaster before she's done a thing as PM.
What's wrong with giving someone a shot - seeing what they do and then take apart?
Seems to be the smart position to me.
(Of course Tories/Neoliberalism will always ruin everything long term. That's built-in.)
But yeah it's STW - hysterics and sound bites get the attention.
bring back council houses and drop the right to buy
And with council houses you could have one system collecting across many rooftops, making it cheaper still.
What’s wrong with giving someone a shot
She’s had a shot. We’ve seen her as a minister. Spending money on increasing her own self importance and profile and doing nothing to help anyone. She doesn’t “get a chance” from me, I want her out as soon as possible, and I want her party kept away from government for a generation. We’ve seen what they do, time for them to go. No fourth chances just because they’ve changed leader again. They have to go.
I think it’s the opposite. Too many folk have called her a disaster before she’s done a thing as PM.
Whilst admittedly there does seem to be a bit of hysteria from some I think it is reasonable not to give her the benefit of the doubt.
She has been in government for years and has had a track record of being useless.
I guess there is an outside chance she will suddenly rise to the occasion and be a great PM but I think its a bit of a slim hope especially given her campaign speeches to date.
She’s had a shot. We’ve seen her as a minister. Spending money on increasing her own self importance and profile and doing nothing to help anyone
Well it's all you've got currently and she's PM. That's not the same.
If she spends money as opposed to all the tax cuts that everyone said was at the top of the list then she's already moved her position to a more sensible place.
That would be a good start.
How you can come to a conclusion it will help no one is unfathomable until details are out.
It's funny but I'm sure you were a proponent of Starmer's price cap. Did he offer that up because it might put him a better position in the polling? So increasing his popularity?
It's not news that politicians do things to appease their voters.
The idea that she’s thick and stupid is ridiculous. She knows what’s she’s doing at least short term.
Honestly, I've no idea whether she is thick or highly intelligent. But one thing she demonstrably is not is quick-witted. Thinking on her feet is not her forté, and that's not a good look in someone representing the entire country.
When have thread titles been that linear you can’t talk about related issues?
Thread drift is natural and usually welcome. Having the same discussion scattered across multiple threads leads to closure as a duplicate (and it's monumentally tedious).
'Saul Staniforth
@SaulStaniforth
"£100bn is going to be spent and that would bring in a freeze in energy bills.. till 2024. Labour policy was £28bn for only 6 months.. the Conservatives have outflanked you on this"
Rayner: "no because we cant just keep pouring money in" '
Deary me, Truss is already in front.
She’s had a shot. We’ve seen her as a minister.
Starmer was responsible for Labour's disastrous Brexit policy at the last GE. Are you saying we shouldn't have given him a chance as LOTO?
Thread drift is natural and usually welcome. Having the same discussion scattered across multiple threads leads to closure as a duplicate (and it’s monumentally tedious).
But with respect - it's not, it's discussion about leaders of the parties (and politics generally) in context of the current PM.
In fact I would go one further to compare and contrast political leader's decisions is essential for robust discussion and stay on topic.
Don't you find the over reactions to the topic drift more tedious?
Also it only flares up when there's a point to be made.
Honestly, I’ve no idea whether she is thick or highly intelligent. But one thing she demonstrably is not is quick-witted. Thinking on her feet is not her forté, and that’s not a good look in someone representing the entire country.
Fair point. I would call her from what I've observed 'Dizzy' if I was joining in.
But as a person she's probably got a lot more about her than we know.
Thinking on her feet is not her forté, and that’s not a good look in someone representing the entire country.
This is where we do run into presentation issues vs what we need the PM to do. Outside of "we believe there are incoming nukes. do you want to order Trident to respond?" how important is this good look? Isnt it better to have someone go "let me think about that for a bit"?
I have had a few discussions with PMs/scrum masters etc explaining why its useful to actually be told what needs discussing in advance or alternatively why they might need to wait for a response. I have also when I cant be arsed with that just sprouted some waffle to confuse them.
The latter might appear to be thinking on my feet was it was pure junk which would only impress those incapable of understanding the actual issues.
Rayner: “no because we cant just keep pouring money in” ‘
Deary me, Truss is already in front
Jesus.
Why should Labour want to protect the screwed market economy?
I knew this would be their position if they got outflanked.
Good to see the same posters giving a new Tory leader the benefit of the doubt.
Oh bugger off. No one is giving her the benefit of the doubt, just pointing out the bleeding obvious. She’s not even been in power a day and if reports are correct she’s already proved the people on here wrong that she’s a rightwing ideologue who wouldn’t lift a finger to solve the energy price crisis. What’s more it looks like she’s already outflanked starmer who everyone was calling a saint for his 29bn half measures.
I’m sure her plans won’t be perfect, they’ll help the rich more than the poor and protect profiteering corporates but that’s not really the point. All the voters care about is the number on their bill. And if that doesn’t go up in October she will get the credit and Starmer will be left standing with his dick in the wind again.
i should be proud a fellow ACMA is PM, i'm not.
Devil in the detail of Truss's plan, will it be a loan ala Sunak's plan, or a straight out bailout or a combo of both, will it be different for businesses, for a while year or just 4 months ?
Fact is the Tories wasted the summer when they should have been planning this out
If she keeps her tax cuts , on top of the borrowing then they've got an excuse for more austerity, I don't think that would go down well.
On top of all that I'm still waiting to the personal life scandals to break, I'm guessing those superinjunctions won't last forever
Breaking:
Price freeze for 18 months, to be paid back by consumers over the next 10 to 20 years.
Package for small business to be "more complex".
Ugh delaying is shit.
But by then there will be a different solution.
We won't be paying it back.
Lol at Dazh for articulating it better than I could.
dazh
She’s not even been in power a day and if reports are correct she’s already proved the people on here wrong that she’s a rightwing ideologue who wouldn’t lift a finger to solve the energy price crisis.
Just my thoughts here, I'm not getting into the big "discussions"in the thread ok guys.👍
Anyway...
In fairness, I and many others in the last few pages have pointed out that she will change policy at the drop of a hat. She doesn't have any real ideology on my opinion.
Policy will be decided on the hoof, just as Boris did.
Just my opinion anyway.😁
We won’t be paying it back.
Yes we will.
Remember that the Tories exist purely to keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy.
There is no way on earth they will do any redistribution towards the less well off. What they will do is a con. Pay a bit less now pay a lot more later.
Oh bugger off.
No thanks.
Devil in the detail of Truss’s plan, will it be a loan ala Sunak’s plan, or a straight out bailout or a combo of both
As I predicted, it'll be the former that's proposed at first. The public and Labour will drag her towards the latter by Christmas, I hope.
will it be different for businesses
That'll be the big question, once domestic users are clear what's happening for them and SME businesses are folding everywhere.
She doesn’t have any real ideology on my opinion.
I think she does however she wont let that get in the way if there is too much bad press. So expect the taxcuts and other perks and then just enough to keep the press quiet going the other way.
So it will be like a small mortgage for energy? Maybe, as energy costs seem to be ever increasing, it will be something that you can pass on to your children.
Will this also be used to help pay for new nuclear?
All the voters care about is the number on their bill.
I don't.
The UK energy market is broken. It needs fixing not propping up.
All of the utilities need nationalising.
The country needs more left wing policies to fix this damage that has been done by the far right nut jobs.
LOL! Wouldn't matter who got the PM gig - most on here wouldn't give any conservative a chance no matter what they achieved - create world peace, end famine, solve global warming - even the slightest thought of praising a Tory would send them into convulsions. 🙂
most on here wouldn’t give any conservative a chance no matter what they achieved – create world peace, end famine, solve global warming
I don't recall any of those things being promised by a tory, ever...
Good old Liz. Not just a pretty face.
Yes we will.
What with? Where's the money coming from?
We won't.
Tories gonna tory muffinman
They willnever do anything that redistributes wealth to the less wealthy. Its against their entire reason for existing.
They will try to con folk that that is what they are doing but it will be a con
the-muffin-man
Full Member
LOL! Wouldn’t matter who got the PM gig – most on here wouldn’t give any conservative a chance no matter what they achieved – create world peace, end famine, solve global warming – even the slightest thought of praising a Tory would send them into convulsions.
After 12 years of only really delivering austerity, yes, I'm not really inclined to give the latest in a string of Tory PM's much praise frankly.
Rone
Increased future bills
solve global warming
When Conservatives were proposing and supporting distributed on land renewables, I praised them for it. I know plenty of people with solar on their roofs because of those old policies, and I can see the windfarms on all my rides. They've long since moved well away from that. The Conservative party has been transforming itself while in office... none of that has given people much to cheer them for. Unless you welcome Brexit of course, for some abstract reason.
to be paid back by consumers over the next 10 to 20 years.
It'll never happen. This is simply a bone thrown to the rightwing of her party and to cover her previous 'no handouts' position. Although given Rayner's brainless and economically illiterate 'we can't keep pouring money in' comment I doubt we can rely on labour to change it in future. In the end there'll be little between labour and Truss on energy prices. The energy companies will continue to make profits, consumers will pay roughly the same prices as now (or less once wholesale prices reduce), and the govt will underwrite the whole thing, wasting tens of billions in the process as opposed to doing the sensible and economically prudent thing of nationalisation.
I don’t.
The UK energy market is broken. It needs fixing not propping up.
All of the utilities need nationalising.
The country needs more left wing policies to fix this damage that has been done by the far right nut jobs
Agreed but all this is going to happen in stages of need.
Rone
Increased future bills
People can't afford the bills.
Same problem.
It’ll never happen. This is simply a bone thrown to the rightwing of her party and to cover her previous ‘no handouts’ position
Exactly this.
Can someone link the me the details for package not seen it anywhere yet?
^^No details actually announced as yet, other than what's been mentioned on here.
Oh, government backed loans for energy providers, that's the mechanic being used.
Speculation going on with small business intervention. Sounds like they haven't actually decided how to do that yet.
Same old arguments back in the tumble dryer again. Right is evil, left will take over the means of production.
If its not paid back by consumers it will be " paid back" by austerity cuts.
Make no mistake. This will be used to make the rich richer and the poor poorer
Anyone noticed the usual drip-drip of a few different versions of the help supposedly coming into the usual media outlets? They're still doing the whole 'See what sticks' thing that plays o the popular mood rather than what actually needs to be done. I've also noticed not a lot of talk about help for businesses, just households. New name, same old Tory bullshit.
And yet just two miles up the road from me people are losing their shit because a large solar farm is planned.
On land you can barely see from any road, and land that would in all likelihood be used for housing in the next 5-10 years otherwise.
I got collared by some NIMBY in Devises while popping into a local shop last week asking me to sign a petition to oppose a Solar Farm near there. I looked at the plan he had with him and said it was a good idea as it's either that or a load of identikit New Builds. Seeing as solar panels don't make any noise or create traffic congestion I told him it was the best use for the land. He looked all confused as his brain tried to process that if they defeated the Solar Farm it wouldn't stay as a field.
most on here wouldn’t give any conservative a chance no matter what they achieved – create world peace, end famine, solve global warming
That's just a list of things the tories will never, ever deliver - so I guess 'most on here' will never be given a chance to prove you wrong...
Don’t you find the over reactions to the topic drift more tedious?
Honestly, yes.
This is where we do run into presentation issues vs what we need the PM to do. Outside of “we believe there are incoming nukes. do you want to order Trident to respond?” how important is this good look? Isnt it better to have someone go “let me think about that for a bit”?
Cool. You've got four minutes. Tick tock. 😁
I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, of course. None of us have any idea what she's actually going to be like as PM, she could turn out to be a breath of fresh air. It's like objecting to the new Doctor Who actor before filming has even started. But what's the phrase, hope for the best and prepare for the worst?
To be fair she has got form on shit in the sea, rewarding the rich, deregulating labour etc etc. It's not like she's come with a clean sheet.
Don’t you find the over reactions to the topic drift more tedious?
They're not over-reactions, they're deliberate attempts (by one poster in particular) to cancel the views and opinions of anyone who doesn't agree with them. That's a much bigger problem for a discussion forum than topic drift. TBH it's no different to any other form of bullying on social media and it needs to stop quite frankly.
It’s like objecting to the new Doctor Who actor before filming has even started.
We were right about that though...
And yes, though I doubt it, she could be totally unlike what we expect and we should at least give her a couple of months so we can see what she has planned.
They’re not over-reactions, they’re deliberate attempts (by one poster in particular)
Who exactly is this internet bully your talking about? I genuinely cannot see it?
I generally try to find the good in people, so I don't sit in the all Tories are bastards camp - however they've cleared house of nearly all the non-bastards. FFS BJ got his own brother ousted from the party, who happened to be that increasing rarity of a competent moderate conservative MP.
Truss is an archetypal Tory Bastard - small government, trickle-down economics, deregulation, screw the little people, screw the environment. Her records, words, and history in government fill me with dread
It’s not like she’s come with a clean sheet.
This.
TBH it’s no different to any other form of bullying on social media and it needs to stop quite frankly.
Sorry, but who is doing the bullying? Who's trying to cancel views? You told me to "bugger off". I'm not willing to give Truss the benefit of the doubt. I've seen enough of her already, she's been in government since... what, the whole twelve years of this lot being in power? Yes, I've already judged her, she's not new, not a breath of fresh air, just the Tories playing their "fresh player" PR game, yet again... prepare for VIP lanes for everything, more impoverishment of workers and those who can't work, more reductions in all our rights, and an even more hostile environment for people not born here.
I generally try to find the good in people, so I don’t sit in the all Tories are bastards camp – however they’ve cleared house of nearly all the non-bastards
Agree with this
Surely someone has run the maths on this plan... previous to her being instated, shes in the same party, so surely the same people have worked o nthese figures and its been waved around before...
i cant see that a party leader actually makes that much in the way of decisions, just a figurehead on the ship..so the new PM and new announcements are part of a bigger plan and to make the current talking point (energy crisis) sweeter to the genral public.. without actually fixing anything..
Energy price cap, paid for by the tax payer..
wrong solution, right solution is to make the high energy users contribute more, encourage everyone else to use less best they can and provide incentives to be much less grid dependent.
Would labour do any better? impossible to say.. all i see is an economic imbalance, not just in this country but globally. but it's fine, we can make the voters happy for another 4 months while we work out what we are doing
I generally try to find the good in people, so I don’t sit in the all Tories are bastards camp – however they’ve cleared house of nearly all the non-bastards
Agree. I always thought that poor chap who was stabbed seemed a decent sort. Even years ago when he was being tricked by Brass Eye he seemed genuinely enthusiastic to help.
Good to see the same posters giving a new Tory leader the benefit of the doubt.
I have repeatedly said that all the likely Tory replacements to Johnson are imo likely to be worse than him, in terms of their effect on the lives of ordinary people. And I certainly believe that with regards to Liz Truss, I consider her to be more right-wing than Johnson.
If however I am proved wrong I will be extremely pleased. By the attitude of some people on here there will be quite a few who will be disappointed - they are clearly hoping that Truss will prove to be worse than Johnson.
Apparently it will be good for Labour.
Even years ago when he was being tricked by Brass Eye he seemed genuinely enthusiastic to help.
Lots of MPs of all parties genuinely want to help their constituents. The Conservatives have always had plenty of genuinely public service minded MPs. Loyalty to our last PM, and his open ended key policy, were put ahead of all that at the last election though, and lots were kicked out.
Richard Murphy on LBC James Oh Brien at 12:45 if anyone's interested.
I'm sure there will be plenty of Truss stick!
Who’s trying to cancel views?
Well, there's your tedious backseat moderation attempts.
Looks like after totally shunning Sunak at the announcement yesterday and those she is appointing to cabinet, she is doing very little to settle the divide in the Tory party.
As usual it will be a vipers den tearing itself apart as the country burns.
.
Richard Murphy on LBC James Oh Brien at 12:45 if anyone’s interested.
Thanks for the heads up. Doesn't sound like they're giving him much time though!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62801913
Energy firms would use the loans to subsidise customer payments, with them repaid by additions to bills over 10 to 20 years...
Sounds like exactly the first roll of the dice that I predicted. The pressure to change the policy will hopefully begin at the next PMQs... I can't see the public accepting that "pay in your later bills" policy, and Labour and the other parties need to make that clear and push for something better.
...or repaid via future taxation.
It'll be this, eventually. Or at least painted as this. The future bills idea won't survive this winter. Windfall taxes (under a different name) will continue to play their part. If they don't, then the public watching the oil and gas companies laugh all the way to the bank won't end well for the new PM.
Richard Murphy’s thoughts
https://twitter.com/richardjmurphy/status/1567057832284983297?s=21&t=Sj8YUQ3cM0vOKsEdy3kZCg
Lots of MPs of all parties genuinely want to help their constituents.
Like I said before, you have far too much faith in these people. I think there's a tiny few MPs who actually want to help their constituents, and they're almost all outside the tory party. It would be more accurate to say that many MPs want to help their constituents as long as it doesn't threaten establishment power and doesn't damage their political careers. The end result is that constituents very rarely receive any help from their elected politicians.
“ Looks like after totally shunning Sunak at the announcement yesterday and those she is appointing to cabinet, she is doing very little to settle the divide in the Tory party.”
It’s this kind of statement that really underlined why politics is so tribal / now puts so many people off.
Having actually watched the announcement yesterday I saw Truss specifically thank Sunak from the stage - there was no “shunning” apart from a confected story of refusing to shake hands when it was clear to see that no hand was proffered by Sunak in the first place.
I’d also wager that even that most experienced politician would have an “oh carp” moment in the few seconds after they had just learned they would be PM the next day. Indeed there’s a story in the Times today describing how Tony Blair stuffed up his PM inauguration with the Queen immediately after he was elected because he was “flustered”.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1567118240668684288
and that's what Scotland thinks of her
Murphy saying their might be another plan - i guess this is the problem with speculation.
I'm going with the Q/E approach as a guess - they won't announce it as such.
Thanks for the heads up. Doesn’t sound like they’re giving him much time though!
Squeezed in at 12:50 ish.
You can call it "speculation", but the media are responding to....
...the usual drip-drip of a few different versions of the help supposedly coming into the usual media outlets? They’re still doing the whole ‘See what sticks’ thing that plays o the popular mood rather than what actually needs to be done.
We'll end up with the government paying. What's key is to make sure that that money doesn't end up as profits in the pocket of the oil and gas companies... or if it does, that it is taxed back to be used somewhere more useful. That's the test for Truss... and if she's pushed hard enough hopefully she'll bend to accommodate it, to try and not be yet another short term Conservative PM.
They’re not over-reactions, they’re deliberate attempts (by one poster in particular) to cancel the views and opinions of anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
Well yeah - but I'm trying to stand back from it as I just find it facile.
You can call it “speculation”, but the media are responding to….
You mean they're testing the waters with ideas deliberately.
On her way home,I wonder if she's dropping in for a chat with the First Minister?
It would be nice to clear the air and get off to a good start.
Well yeah
Who is "cancelling" which views, and which opinions?
You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.
Sure looks like it. Same old. Plenty of opportunity to push them towards something that isn't just subsidising fossil fuel energy producers. We'll see...
You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.
Its a standard tory practice with their client journalists. Have a "source close to" say something and then see how the public responds. If positive then the "close to" can announce it but if not there is no come back for the anonymous handler and they can feed their agent something else to try.
I got collared by some NIMBY in Devises while popping into a local shop last week asking me to sign a petition to oppose a Solar Farm near there.
My usual response is "Well you want the lights to come on when you press the switch, don't you? So do your bit."
John Crace absolutely on the money in the Guardian. As ever…
https://twitter.com/johnjcrace/status/1566851843950608384?s=21&t=RIX_K5PUmRN36sMInSWuDQ
There is not a single tory mp who wants to help " the commin person" if they wanted to help they would not be a tory
The tory partys only reason for existence is to keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy. Some might pretend and some might offer a few more crumbs to the poor but not one of them actually wants to improve the lot of the masses.
To do so is incompatible with being a tory.
Name a single thing any tory has ever done that improves the life of the less well off.
Its a standard tory practice with their client journalists. Have a “source close to” say something and then see how the public responds. If positive then the “close to” can announce it but if not there is no come back for the anonymous handler and they can feed their agent something else to try.
Yes that makes sense - but they ought to know a loan based programme of support is not going to go down that well!
You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.
Kite-flying is now just standard. Whenever Kuensberg on the BBC quoted ‘a source close to government’ or ‘a Downing Street source’, everyone and his dog knew she meant she’d been fed a line by Dominic Cummings to try out on the public and see if it flies, while all remaining deniable by Downing Street
Nuffing to do with us guv. No idea where you got that from…
Cummings has gone but this is just how everything is now done in number 10
As Malcolm Tucker used to say: “run it up the flagpole and see who gets wood’
Who is “cancelling” which views, and which opinions?
I'm not entirely sure what the difference is here between "cancelling" and "disagreeing," can someone help me out?
Cougar
Full Member
Who is “cancelling” which views, and which opinions?I’m not entirely sure what the difference is here between “cancelling” and “disagreeing,” can someone help me out?
😆 good point.