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Apologies for the long post.
I really struggle with kids, so I want to gauge some opinion, perhaps gain some insight into others experiences, and receive some wisdom which may even make life easier.
Before I explain circumstances I'll say that I never, ever, anticipated this stage of parenting to be so difficult and challenging. Naively in my head I thought around age 20 kids would seek their own independence and I could progressively enjoy more freedom, less stress. The opposite is happening and I see no end in sight.
My circumstances are difficult, though probably not unique. I have 2 of my own - 18/22, and she has 3 - 17/19/21. I live with her and her kids and have done for 3 years. I see my youngest every 2 weeks when he comes to stay with me, my eldest is in the Army.
Her youngest is second year of 6th form and will go to unit, her middle has spent the last year in bed but thankfully has now found a job and has plans. Her eldest is at uni.
The issues probably can be clustered into three areas; the standard infuriating things kids do, my 'opinions' regards kids/society, and our circumstances.
Standard irritations: Just the mindless selfishness, feeling like a servant to the whims and wants of kids (all of them to some varying degree), and the sense that nothing ever is good enough for them. Beyond that, just not tidying up after themselves, etc. Standard stuff.
My opinions: Because I'm a rational freethinking grown-up I am always happy to have my views challenged and even corrected, I like to learn. I think by and large our society (however you define that) has contrived to make things progressively easier and easier for all of us, but most of all kids. We listen to kids way more than we used to (good), but we jump to every complaint and pain they have (bad). Life is hard, we do not prepare them for that in any way shape or form by appeasing their every worry and discomfort. I know that's not all situations, I am generalising, I cannot break down every situation here. The consequence is we have a much more fragile younger generation. This is borne out by my own experiences. For example, much of the 'bad' stuff goes unchallenged because all of them seem so sensitive, feel their rights are being violated, or just react to challenge with any number of other disruptive behaviours. There is a huge amount of ingratitude, a large dollop of entitlement, etc etc.
Circumstances: In brief, myself and my partner have done a poor job of integrating the kids. I constantly feel like a 'guest', borderline unwelcome, and that is worse when my kids stay. My partner can be extremely sensitive/defensive over her kids, which makes me feel like I do not have a say and I rank below the kids in the household pecking order. I find her kids rude with very poor manners, but I let everything slide currently. This results in resentment build-up. Which kind of blew up messily at the weekend when through poor choice of words she left me in no doubt that my kids are guests, possibly even me.
She tolerates a great deal, and frankly there is little to no borders, or control.
This is becoming an issue for our relationship as I sit and wait quietly for 'my turn' in conversations, and time together. Her kids are extremely demanding, and she attends to everything.
Long term, I'm losing a bit of faith, which is tragic as we have a fantastic relationship otherwise. I think it has become more common now for parents to be deeply involved in all of the detail of their kids lives, but that is at odds with my established opinion (see start of post), but I have to accept that this is likely to be the way for my partner. I stay in touch with my kids, but do not attend to their daily problems.
What are your thoughts, or experiences?
My feeling now is I have to change, and I am open to all ideas.
Split up.
Teenagers are selfish, entitled arseholes. Parents resent them for it even though they were the same at that age.
Always was it thus and always shall it be.
Teenagers are selfish, entitled arseholes. Parents resent them for it even though they were the same at that age.Always was it thus and always shall it be.
If that was the case for the OP then it would be fine.
In this case though, his partner seems to not care that her kids are selfish entitled arseholes, and resents the OP for pointing it out occasionally.
Tough spot to be in.
Teenagers are selfish, entitled arseholes. Parents resent them for it even though they were the same at that age.
Always was it thus and always shall it be.
This is 100% true.
My thought is that, as you live in her house then your kids will always feel like guests, as will you to a lesser degree. Her kids grew up in the house so it's theirs and they can do as they wish.
I suspect a way to change this dynamic would be to buy a house together it's both of yours house and not just hers. The kids won't have the historic connection to it and your kids will be as part of it has hers.
Re. how she deals with her kids, that's just different parenting styles that you haven't learned together. If you'd brought them up together there'd be much my togetherness.
I'd move into the shed.
I can relate to what you have written. I have a stepson who is 22 and gives little indication that he will become independent any time soon. He is at uni but failed his second year exams and decided to take a year out before retaking them (he could have done that in the August of last year). He insisted that he was not ready for the third year and that he would pay his way for this "gap year".
In the event he worked for about three months of the year and spent the rest of it idling. Every penny my wife earnt (plus lots that I did) went on his rent, food etc. which meant that we went without a holiday and lots of other things. He has also broken three laptops since he has been at Uni - he broke one within hours of being given it as he piled lots of stuff on top of it in the boot of a friends car and the screen broke.
My wife refuses to get tough with him as she is concerned about his mental health and the fact that he dabbled in drug dealing when he was 18. I just hope that he can graduate with a reasonable degree next Summer but I am sure that we will still be supporting him after that. Doing this for one step kid has been tough - I could not have done it for three so kudos for managing so far.
I read somewhere kids do not become independent until the age of 26 on average and the age is steadily increasing.
When I was 19 I had been going out with a girl a year younger for a couple of years. Her parents divorced when she was six and her mum re-married when she was ten. As soon as she was 18 she was given the deposit for a bedsit and basically thrown out of home - thirty years ago that was fairly common.
Raising children can be a trial when they are your own. Raising other peoples can be almost impossible if your partner does not support you and make your role and position clear to her offspring.
I think you should find an opportunity to talk calmly to your partner about how you feel. I think that if you could maybe agree a plan for how long and in what way you will support both sets of kids it may help. Having this may stop it feeling like an endless slog.
For me, the question is why does your partner not respect your opinions? There's more to a relationship than hanging out and having a good time.
Not saying it's her fault, mind.
Split up.
Talk to your partner, clearly layout your issues and how you feel. Don't thresten to leave, that will only escalate things, but know that unless what you tell her comes as a surprise and she wants to change things, you will need to get out of the relationship or put up with being down the pecking order.
Personally I'd be considering getting out.
This is exactly the reason why I wont move in with my partner until all our kids have flown the nest.
very very difficult situation. I think most blokes in your situation rank their own priority in the house somewhere between the dog and the cat. Teenagers are completely self absorbed and the first thing you need to realise is its not your fault, not at all. I toiled with this until mine stepped over the line a few times and I thought fine you get on with it and completely backed off and let them get on with it and make their own mistakes, the flip side was I wasnt going to go the extra mile - anything they wanted they had to get/ work for. Basically I had to ignore them to an extent and this has helped, although there are red lines that are not to be crossed. When they see your value let them come to you. Your life is worth living to the full, their character is fully formed and you are not going to change that. If its any consulation they will come out the other side and be decent humans but right now I feel your pain. The being a guest in your own home is unnacceptable so you need to figure that one out yourself. good luck.
Very tough spot and not at all uncommon...
I think you have three options:
1) Learn somehow to ignore it and hope they grow out of it
2) Leave
3) Move out but retain your relationship (this would be my preference)
The one thing that will not change is the way the mother relates to the children, she won't toughen up on them/kick them out, as the co-dependency pattern is fully established.
I will share ( briefly) my experiences.
When I met my now wife, her kids were 6 and 9. Dad lived down the road, amicable divorce.
I had no kids of my own.
Thankfully, I was able to have a sensible conversation regarding the kids. I knew I could never be the father - setting discipline in the house was down to their mum. I never got involved. It kind of worked - but daughter has always tried to get in between us - both physically and emotionally. And 30 years on , still does.
Teenage years were challenging - step son got nicked for dope smoking plus various other items. But it was up to the parents to sort ... not me.
I just made myself busy with past-times, work etc... i know my place in the pecking order in terms of wife's time - but we didn't have the kids 24/7.
One thing we did always agree on was course of action/ standards/ behaviour etc plus we always "understood" the issues. Not easy all of time.
That said, we are still together, we got through it, despite of the kids trying hard. Oddly daughter has became more a pain in arse as she got older ... peaking around 24 ish. She is now 39 and still always has to do something in a weekend when visiting to be testing.
Looking outside at where you are at, your other half is not being "honest". You are a bit part in her life - and inconvenience ( maybe an nice one but she doesn't seem respectful of you and your kids).
Honestly, you would both be happier living separately - and continuing the relationship. The kids know exactly what they are doing, they are doing in as tactics in the game for who is more important , you or them.
They will leave one day ... but it depends on what you what and what you are prepared to put up with. I wasn't a good doormat...
Pre-frontal and frontal lobes in the teenage brain are the last to connect. These perform the executive function, judgement, empathy etc. This doesn't fully fall into place until mid-20's as above.
You've a while yet to ride this out. I've no pearls of wisdom but this might inform any decision you make. You have my full sympathy.
Either spent more time at your own pad and ride out the short term kids storm, or both sell up your pads and get something new between you which changes the whole hierachy/ ground rules, where all kids are equally welcome.
Not married. It’s her house. Her kids are the priority
Your lodging in her house mate. Are you not married because you don’t believe in it? Are you not married because it’s not the right time? Are you not married for another reason?
Have you got money for another house? Did you have your own house pre this relationship? Are you paying rent?
At the end of the day it’s a relationship. If it’s an equal relationship then the housing needs to be even, the kids need to be even and the responsibility needs to be even. Sounds to me like you have either not committed enough to the relationship to command any responsibility or she hasn’t let you. Both ways look to me like issues.
I have 2 kids of my own. Neither will ever get to outrank my wife in any dispute. Not because I don’t love or value them, but because my wife is my partner and if we aren’t strong and united then shit like this happens
This is a bit of an eye-opener for me. I had developed a liking for a woman who has three kids, one has grown up and left, the other two and still quite dependent, one especially - and both in their 20s now.
When you look at the practicalities of it all, I think such relationships can only really work at a strategic distance, like separate houses, maybe spending weekends together, then perhaps moving in after the kids have left the nest - but due not least to the economy and house prices, that increasingly isn't going to happen at all.
not sure if ive missed whether you have your own house somewhere or not, or whether youd be homeless if you left?
but.... i think you need your own place. carry on the relationship, but your own pad will change the dynamics for the better. start 'dating' again.
Two teenagers of my own and the last few years have been a nightmare. Nothing can prepare you for the sheer unbridled selfishness of teenagers. I genuinely identify with your frustration.
I don't buy the "it was always this way" argument. My own father was almost 50 when I was born and I simply would have been thrown out of the house if I carried on the way my own two do.
Like yourself, my wife and I really don't see eye to eye about how to deal with the situation. I tend to take a much tougher line and the only way they'll learn is to face the full consequences of their actions themselves.
I think in your circumstances, getting your won place would be a good idea. Not only does it decrease the leverage your partner has, it will also give you breathing space and perhaps alleviate the constant tension.
Be honest with her, show your cards and go from there. Life’s too short.
OP - kids don't leave home at 20 any more. It's more like 30 nowadays, even those going to uni tend to go back home if they can't find work quickly
You need to talk to your partner
Some absolutely brilliant responses here, thank-you.
Most of it has affirmed my own thinking.
Yes I do think it is very different now, but now is all there is, there is no point opining the good old days when kids were more robustly encouraged into independence. Fwiw I left at 16 to join the army, so I'm definitely biased in this area.
Living apart: yes, has been discussed in past many times. I don't have my own house, or have means to get my own house, since divorce. It's probably main reason I'm still where I am if I'm honest. She is supportive of whatever I want to do, but frankly I'm scared of damaging the relationship not just with her, but whatever hopes I've have of a relationship with her kids.
How we've coped is talking openly. She is understanding, and I can be intolerant which I've acknowledged, and worked on.
More recently things have improved, and it's certainly livable.
But I still have major question marks about the future. In very simple terms, I'm absolutely torn, and unless I can build a good relationship with her kids, I may have to walk away from a wonderful woman, or we have a different kind of relationship.
I've actually just been made redundant. I'm strongly considering binning my career in IT, and living in a van for a while!
Thanks again, it has really helped.