Living in a caravan...

What does your dad want to do?  Thats the key thing.  I understand you are acting with his best interests at heart and are getting your ducks in a row now but his wishes are key

Why does he not sell his house and buy a smaller house close to yours? I think living in a caravan all year around would be hell – hot in the summer, hard to keep warm in the winter – and, at 85 years old, surely that wouldn't be good for his health.

Also, you would generally need to get planning permission if it is a permanent residence (occasional use is permitted).

Sell house and rent a flat or even one of those sheltered living flats. I know two colleagues on their own who have moved into sheltered accommodation in their early 60's. They love it. A caravan is a bit shoot. Novelty will soon wear off.

Or sell the house and build a self-contained extension if space allows (of course this could complicate things if there is an inheritance expected and there are others that would expect to be named in the will).

Can he not live in a small portion of his existing house, focussed ideally on downstairs?

If not, alternatives to consider

Local nursing homes with his own 'apartment'?  Has his own space but has care around as he gets older/frail.  Will generally be living in little more than one room and will feel a bit 'Waiting for God'.

Affordable housing companies, such as Guinness Partnership, do elderly houses and apartments under shared ownership.  Usually means he would have his own (small) property and they maintain the exterior of the properly.  Can be hard to come by so may be on a queue.  Properties usually up for sale following a death so then held up by probate.

Retirement flats?  Buy or rent and more geared up for elderly people rather than general flats.  Can be pricey, particularly the managed properties.

Assuming you mean a touring caravan rather than a static, he'll probably find it quite restrictive particularly if/when his mobility starts to go and will also be very cold in winter.  Static caravan more of a realistic option but again, cold in winter and you'd need to consider ramp to the door.  I see no reason why it wouldn't be legal.

As other have said - work to his requirements rather than your (albeit very well meaning) convenience.

Thanks all.

I'm thinking out loud really. 

Him in a caravan wouldn't be for our convenience, more so he doesn't feel alone.

Ideally I'd like him to buy a house in our village so he can be near but have that bit of separation.

I can't see him going for shared ownership or assisted living. That would generally mean moving into a town and he's always been a country person.

And renting - he'd hate that loss of 'control'! 😀

Its a really difficult situation you face.  My heart goes out to you.  I have this coming with my parents who are getting old now.

With regard to moving house.  Some bereaved folk want to move straight away, some find comfort in staying.  there is no right or wrong answer to this.  Move slowly and look after yourself as well - and include your other half in the decisions.  It will be tough for your dad as well and to have others take decisions for him even with the best of intent may not go down well

Its a minefield to navigate this stuff

Edit - its a topic I have thought a lot about and I am part way thru writing a book about how to navigate this.  Please feel free to PM me if you want to chat or just to completely ignore me if you think I'm spouting bollox 🙂

Carry on living in his house. Get a gardener. When needed get carers in. We did that with MIL and she was disabled. Carers four times a day plus a family member at least once a day. This does depend if any of the family live nearby.

Thanks @tjagain - I’ll be in touch if things get tricky. 👍

@fossy they have a gardener, cleaner and handyman already. He’s not infirm and could live independently. That doesn’t solve the problem of loneliness though. They’ve been married 65 years and pretty much lived on one anothers pockets.

Family wise - there’s basically me (and my wife) as my sister lives 1.5hrs away and my brother is estranged.

Does the caravan come with a dawg?

We’ve already got a dawg he can pet! 🤣

We had this with MIL and my parents.

With MIL we were fortunate that there were quite a few grandkids of an age that we could set up a rota and somebody would spend the night there (I made sure there was wi-fi, decent TV package and a good coffee machine.  Oh, and everyone got £60 a night!) They were queuing up!

Harder with Dad, it got to the stage where there were a few falls which required me to go round in the middle of the night.  We found an excellent care home and, blimey, he really took to it like a duck to water.  He was a very principled bloke who couldn't be doing with small talk and superficial acquaintanceships before he went in but once there really flourished.  We were all amazed.  We did the house up and rented it out and that paid for the fees.  Do NOT sell the house while he's alive because of IHT exemption.

The other thing we considered was renting our place and moving in with him.  But his needs grew too great (I'm big and strong, he was a lot lighter than me, but when he slips in the shower (never mind all the effing handrails I fitted) I just couldn't help without hurting him).  Had he been less prone to that (he was 93) we'd have gone for it.

I'm aware that 85 need not mean old.  3 guys at my windsurfing club are in their 80s and putting me to shame!  One of them goes all year round, only if it's really windy and rigs a sail that I would find a bit on the big side.

Edit - I guess I won't find TJ's book on Amazon...

OK, so having watched this with one grandparent and the other two (IMO) making mistakes.

1) Renting Vs buying a retirement flat, it would have worked out MASSIVELY cheaper to rent. Cruel as it sounds, this is not a long term investment.

2) Sooner rather than later. Gran left it too late and was going blind so never made friends in the complex as she couldn't see faces so had no idea who she was talking to. Grandparents on the other side are now well past this point as well and really can't cope in their own home anymore but are now refusing to leave.

3) Future proofing, a caravan might work today. But what about in 1/2/5 years time when he isn't as quick and can't make it to the bathroom without a walker?  Is the bathroom big enough for someone who can't stand straight? What if he has a fall? Is it big enough for social services to get in/out to put him to bed, get him up, dress him, bathe him, etc?

Thankfully having watched all this unfold and seen how bad it gets when you don't proactively plan ahead and accept that you're getting old and only getting older, my parents, aunts, uncles, all have either started planning for or already moved into housing that will meet their needs long term.   Even going as far as to plan how they'll remodel downstairs to fit wet-rooms and bedrooms rather than rely on stair lifts.

All can go to poop even if you do try and plan. We had a stairlift put in for MIL, she used it for a while, but then didn't when FIL died - all sorts of issues with it, battery fails etc, so when she did want a bath, we couldn't do it. Downstairs loo, expensive washer dryer version fitted (to avoid constant UTI's) - used it for a very short period, had a fall, decided she wasn't using it, and insisted on a commode next to her chair in the lounge. If somebody won't move out, they won't.  We did keep her in her house as long as possible. It was only after an illness nearly killed her, and she'd lost any ability to get out of a chair, that she needed full time nursing home care (two people to get her out of a chair/bad to use the loo.

Move into his house, sell yours.

... which is a point in itself.  Who does their house go to when he sadly passes?  Does it all come to you or will it be an asset divided up between beneficiaries?

If the only issue is loneliness then a house move seems a bit excessive and it won't really solve the problem anyway. He possibly needs interaction and activities, not a different place to sleep.

Most old people stubbornly dig their heels in and struggle along in a fog of denial until a crisis overtakes them. Be ready for the crisis.

@thisisnotaspoon

Thanks - some good points raised there, especially re space needed for future care(ers). 👍

Posted by: Cougar

↑

... which is a point in itself.  Who does their house go to when he sadly passes?  Does it all come to you or will it be an asset divided up between beneficiaries?

There are 3 children - will not split equally due to my brother being estranged (he gets a bit more a smaller slice than me and my sister).

There is also equity release on the house and under their terms he can't take anyone in to live there.

I also don't want to, we have the (small!) house we want now. And I don't want to return to the house I grew up in.

This may or may not bother you, but your neighbours may prefer not to look out on an occupied caravan on next doors drive... Our new neighbours did this. Dad moved 'in' with his son and partner - to live in a manky caravan on their drive but in front of our lounge window. The kids couldn't afford the property without Dad's capital and he spent nearly two years in the van whilst they got around to converting a garage into his grandad flat. Two winters. 

Fortunately, the other neighbour is a Paramedic and didn't have far to go to save his life (literally) on several occasions. The van was unsuitable for the old man and I'm sure he had a horrible time in there. Cold in winter/hot in summer and no room to swing the small yappy dog that shared the space with him.

How big is your garden? Room for a summerhouse or similar? The log cabin style go up fast and you'll get a much more senior friendly space. Bigger bathroom, wider doors and corridors, proper kitchen counter. Also back garden feels a bit more like being part of the house, easier to leave door unlocked etc.

Sorry to hear about your mum.

Could you rent your place out and move in with him, paying a suitable rent (agreed with the wider family)?

As above, a caravan on a driveway has a few downsides.

It's difficult.

I have a similar situation with my mum who has a few medical issues and needs more help than she gets from me due to not living together and being a 30min trip.  Then there's the isolation, lack of driving etc and she's 70 and her mind is pretty sound still.

I think a retirement place would be great for her so she can make friends but she's also attached to her house so not an option yet.

Moving her in with us would just make everyone annoyed with each other and she'd want to be involved in everything.  We have our own lives...

So just biding our time really until there is a need to do something.  Do you actually need to do anything with your dad beyond some home help?

With regard to moving house.  Some bereaved folk want to move straight away, some find comfort in staying. 

I think theres an element of 'home' and an element of 'community' in relation to this. When my mum was widowed almost her immediate reaction was thinking that she should move house closer to me and my brother, but she actually didn't, becuase although we were family we were also busy family who aren't around a lot. In reality she had decades worth of friendships local to her, mostly with people who were also retired so had the time to spend that she had.

In fact it proved to be about one key, close friendship and when that person suddenly died thats when she decided it was time for a move- I think at that point her 'home' just became a house and the rest of her friends were just aquintances by comparison and she was happy to leave it all behind.

But what she did do is rent - rent her own house out, rent a new place up here in glasgow - it was pretty much cost neutral but it also made the decision reversible (or at least feel reversible) if things didn't work out -  but it also made things revisable so she was able to make a second move a year or so later - literally just 100 yards along the road - to a house that had a better configuration to changing needs.

If your dad must move it sounds like a downsize to somewhere close to you might be the best bet, but admittedly potentially expensive & tricky especially if equity release* has been involved. Our dad made some really stupid choices after our mum passed away & eventually came to live with me, but only after I'd paid out for a larger house to accommodate him & it was local to people he'd known for years, still not something I'd recommend to anyone.

*mil went though hoops to pay hers off after receiving an inheritance.

How old is your daughter? If an older teenager, kick her out into the caravan and move Dad into her bedroom. 

She gets a bit of freedom and can invite her boyfriends around for some fun away from her mum and dad, and your dad gets a better option.

(I suspect this may not be a popular option 😄)

Well this scenario has happened rather quicker than we expected!

My mum passed away last Sunday (20th) - as good a way to go as you could hope. At home with family around her.

She declined rapidly during the day and paramedic was called by carers. He administered the end-of-life meds that had already been sent to home by her doctors the week before.

Very early days but so far but my dad says he wants to stay in the house. We're not sure he'll cope with the upkeep of the house financially as his pension will be reduced. We won't know by how much until we notify DWP but can't do that until we get the death certificate.