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Like others I'd have described myself as a Lost Prophets fan, and every now and again I still find myself humming rooftops. Would I ever stream their music again? - probably not. Watkins is a grade A piece of 5h1t, and despite the respect I have for his bandmates & their music, I have more respect for those he's impacted in his actions.
Wagner wasn't very nice.
Bought a T-shirt off the Lost Prophets guitarist after seeing them in Y2K supporting Pitchshifter and Earthtone 9 (memories!)
Lost interest after the first album but they seemed like genuinely nice chaps at the time, gutted about what Watkins seems to have turned into, he's done so much damage to so many people, utterly grim situation for all involved.
The lead singer of one of my favourite hardcore bands, Champion, seems to have been a proper creep as well, massively torn about what to think about this, went to some incredible gigs with them playing and the rest of the band apparently weren't aware either.
Wagner wasn’t very nice.
Nope, but in spite of that he *was* a liberal and would have been strongly opposed to the Nazis.
Which makes him a great addition to this thread. We need a Nazi to turn up and say "I still listen to Wager in spite of his politics being unacceptably liberal." 😀
What the evidence does support is that Hitler designed the ‘shape’ of it and that shape persisted into the 21st century.
No. The evidence is that Hitler drew sketches of the shape that the designers had already designed. He was not the originator of the shape (bonnet, rear, wings or overall). It’s just propaganda that worked so well, it still hasn’t died.
Not exactly saying I'm a Little Richard fan, but I find Lucille a bit of a toe tapper.
I must admit though, that when I read somewhere that he was a token pervert who enjoyed watching people get jiggy, whilst being w**ked off and having his titties chewed (hahahahaha) I do find myself skipping it on shuffle more often than not!
Lost Prophets were one of my favourite bands. I didn’t even consider playing their music for years after the facts came to light and like many others was very surprised that it was that Ian Watkins they were talking about and not the bloke from Steps.
I will admit they have become a guilty pleasure recently.
Never liked The Smiths, most of MJ’s stuff or Glitter. Grew up listening to The Who though.
Yet politically and to some degree physically a “rong’un”
Johnny? Go on then, explain…
Nothing too explain really, just politically and monarchy motivated... he was classed as a "rong'un" for that era, along with many that protested against the establishment...
Thats all..
Got to love Nick Cave. His position on Mozza probably could apply to Rock And Roll Part 2 and Billie Jean as well.
I still think there's something in my argument though, if you listen to music created when the artist was already a wrong un', it's more likely to be somehow tainted by that wrongness.
Nobody will ever stop me enjoying ABC by the Jackson Five anyway.
The evidence is that Hitler draw sketches of the shape that the designers had already designed.
Sounds plausible - provide a source for that and everyone will know in future. In the meantime there are two credible authors who claim it was the other way round.
I find myself cringing every time I hear MJ's PYT.
Which is a shame because it's a great song.
Sounds plausible
Look up the work of the two designers I mentioned, their patents, prototypes, trade magazine articles, drawings… before Hitler got anywhere near the people’s car idea… also, note what happened to one of them… of course it was important that Hitler should take the credit for his pre-existing work, and that he was airbrushed out of the story… he was a Jew.
Thats all..
A wrong'un in a good way 🙂
Can't believe how many admit to liking Lost Prophets. Not cos he was a perve, but cos they were shit. Arf.
Thats all..
A wrong’un in a good way 🙂
Absolutely 🤠
As much as I like Ian Brown I do not like that he is a stoner. Hardly a bad crime I know but it still irrates me.
Very few musicians that are / were not. Certainly that means all reggae, most punk, most pub rock including Dr Feelgood ,all later beatles, lou Reed, Dr John etc etc
Love The Smiths and will always listen to them. Always thought Morrissey was capable of grade 1 bellendery but it's the band as a whole I listen to.
I like how 80% of contributors are talking about the thread, and 20% are talking about who drew the Beetle. Good old STW.
going by that hitler sketch he should have credit for the citeron ds not the beetle
I was a Lost Prophets fan. I thought I could listen to thefakesoundofprogress by dissociating the art from the artist (or one of them anyway). Turns out I couldn't and I didn't finish the album.
going by that hitler sketch he should have credit for the citeron ds not the beetle
The DS (and even more so the 2CV) rely heavily on the work of Josef Ganz.
Anyway… back to music… I’m lucky in that, apart from Morrissey, all my favourite artists have aged well… opinions wise… and at least we still have Marr.
On a wider note… Eric Gill is the person where I have the biggest conflict between work and person. Horrible human being, but such influential work. Very conflicting.
I was saying to someone the other day actually, imagine how good a band Marr could have been in if he'd never met Mozza.
On a wider note… Eric Gill is the person where I have the biggest conflict between work and person
Was just about to post about Eric Gill, my dad having been a great fan. Personally I'm happy enough to know that as long as evil b'stards aren't benefitting then what the heck.
Luckily I've stuck to vinyl & cd's and buy very little music these days so don't have to worry about who is rolling in the cash.
How's about Sizlers rather anti LBGT lyrics?
Look up the work of the two designers I mentioned, their patents, prototypes, trade magazine articles, drawings… before Hitler got anywhere near the people’s car idea…
Hitchens's razor.
going by that hitler sketch he should have credit for the citeron ds not the beetle
The sketch I saw was little more than a curvy line and similar to all the other cars of the era as far as I could see. But the argument isn't 'was it an original shape'. Or 'was it a detailed enough shape to be described as the truely the design of the shape'. The dispute is about whether he came up with it at all or whether he copied an existing design.
imagine how good a band Marr could have been in if he’d never met Mozza.
Seeing as most stuff he's done since the Smiths has been crap, I'm finding it quite hard to imagine.
Another Lost Prophets/Watkins tale here. They appeared to support every band in TJs from 1999 to about 2001, so it was fairly impossible to not bump in to them. Watkins always seemed alright, one of the other band members was a right knob. Fairly worried that it shows I'm the worst judge of character ever in retrospect.
Oh, and no danger of going back to listen to them because Debz is right, they were shit.
Seeing as most stuff he’s done since the Smiths has been crap, I’m finding it quite hard to imagine.
But The Smiths was his first successful band, Mozza stole all that youthful potential.
Best thing he did?
I must admit though, that when I read somewhere that he was a token pervert who enjoyed watching people get jiggy, whilst being w**ked off and having his titties chewed
Strange what some consider perverted. Seems perfectly normal to me.
I like how 80% of contributors are talking about the thread, and 20% are talking about who drew the Beetle. Good old STW.
Mussolini was a Pareto enthusiast too.
Makes you think...
Yep. Eric Gill the most gay rapey of the typographers.
And if we discuss Page (and I’m sure the STW legal team would rather we didnt) then Bowie has to be on the list. Goodbye to UFO, Hawkwind.... ahhh F it. The list goes on forever.
Marr-athon coming up…
One of my favourite bands of the last decade or so is Crystal Castles, however reports in recent years suggest the dude was a blatant wrong un' (I'll let you Google it if you're not aware).
Good job I've lost their CD I suppose.
This is still bloody good though...
And if we discuss Page (and I’m sure the STW legal team would rather we didnt) then Bowie has to be on the list. Goodbye to UFO, Hawkwind…. ahhh F it. The list goes on forever.
And the Rolling Stones, Iggy Pop, Bob Weir...
depends how close you feel to the artist and their music...
Wagner or whoever is distant in time and feeling for most if not all (he's not performed much in israel) and I most folk won't have a huge amount of personal identification with Tristan etc, so the music's just music.
With pop/rock and ahem youth culture, said the guy in his 50s, there is closer identification and feeling of being part of something. So who makes it and the vibe they put across is integral to the music.
Here it depends on what the original deal was. With the Fall say (who I never much liked but saw then four or five tines in the 70s and 80s) Mark E didn't particularly care what you thought. So he may well have been a mess of dodgy ideas (or not, I've just remembered 'I am curious orange' ballet music with Michael Clark) but it doesn't matter because you're not invited onside. Similar for middle class white audiences for some reggae and rap. It's sufficiently anthropologically distant that the news it may slightly encroach some feminist lines doesn't stop folk listening to it who'd react pretty vigorously were it coming from closer to home.
With stuff like the smiths, like it or not (and the first and only gig I saw them play I walked our of early slightly bored), for a lot of the UK audience it is close to home with the Manc vibe and young adult dislocation. here I agree with:
it’s OK to listen to MJ from before he probably got dodgy
smiths' music was on the side of the outsider, even if some later tropes may now be apparent (hang the deejay?). Crack on, doesn't matter what Moz did later, it was good then.
But with say Ryan Adams whose sins weren't the worst, it sounds like he was always a bit pathetic, it just took a while to come out, and so I can't listen to gold any more, which is a shame, but there we go. (Close to the John Peel/teenage groupies thing, some grown men who are into teenage girls tend to think this is normal - some views on this thread. It really isn't, they just don't know how they sound to the rest of us. Anyway, no need to llsten to led zep, thank ****)
It's a tricky one... R Kelly being a shady creep doesn't stop some episodes of his hip hopera from being pretty damn funny.
His music is still shite though and since he is indeed a shady creep, including blackmail n suchlike, I won't be sharing it
Then of course there's the whole Drake thing...
But he's once again, he's wack, so it's no great loss
How about Harvey Weinstein films?
Not necessarily something you'd immediately register as he doesn't generally make an appearance, but there's a helluva lot of em!
The list goes on forever
Yeah, as I already said, hours ago.
Those Marr videos, am I supposed to play them and go "Oh yeah! Much betterer than The Smiths!"?
And Electronic (I bought it!) - bland and ordinary (spot the hatred! Where?) and only got anywhere cos we all were interested in the individuals in the "supergroup". The reason why The Smiths divide opinion is because they were original and revolutionary. Nothing Morrissey or Marr did afterwards comes close. And I'm not that big a Smiths fan.
Anyway, this isn't a Smiths thread.
Think I posted similar thread a while back. Plenty of songs including Lost Prophets that I wish were covered by other artists so I’d feel good about listening to them.
I think Nick Cave is spot on. I would go further, I would say those who reject the artists work because of the artist are more likely to revere the artist, I prefer to like the work end of. I've never been a star struck hero worshipper type, I love the music not the person. Thats why if the person turns out to be a dick, or peado, I don't care.
I mean if the inventor of the uppy downy turned out to be a child raping cat strangler, would you go back to a nicely machined thompson and a hope QR?
I would argue that this is the problem with the world, too much hero worship of people of zero ****ing consequence.
Morrisey
MJ
Watkins
etc.
What exactly have they done of any real importance to warrant your love in the first place. Its just music, it doesn't change lives.
Anyone care to guess the sexual age of consent in Delaware in 1880, Hawaii in 2000 and Spain ten years ago. Spain is now 16 but much of Europe is still 14 with some provisos about age difference. Judge people by the laws in place at the time rather than now, on that basis some of the people cited above did no wrong. Some did but I'm struggling to think what Jonny Rotten did, he's always been worth listening to.
Its just music, it doesn’t change lives.
I think plenty would dispute that. But I agree with much of your post.
Taxi25 Yeah I get that, but I mean they are hardly heroes, its not brave and selfless to live your dream and become a rich and famous superstar..
@edukator.
His politics aren't universaly popular.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/21/john-lydon-pil-palestinians
I'd still love to know what's wrong with Roger Waters ?
I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Eric Clapton. His outburst sparked the Red Wedge movement in the 70s didn't it? His excuse was drink and drugs.
Nor are Noel Gallagher's politics universally popular but I enjoy listening to him all the same. Rotten, Gallagher and Adam Boulton to moderate the debate, I'd watch that.
Edit: and what was wrong with red wedge?
I don’t mind s bit of Snoop/Dre tbh, do they count?
Not bothered with Ryan Adams since he was outed as a duffer. Shame.
Nothing was wrong with Red Wedge, it was a good thing. It was Clapton's nasty comments which drove Billy Bragg etc to tackle racism.
I’m surprised no-one’s mentioned Eric Clapton. His outburst sparked the Red Wedge movement in the 70s didn’t it? His excuse was drink and drugs.
Googling that lead me to this:
Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux were sporting swastikas as fashion statements. David Bowie, who three months earlier had been photographed apparently giving a Nazi salute in Victoria Station, told Cameron Crowe in the September 1976 edition of Playboy '... yes I believe very strongly in fascism. The only way we can speed up the sort of liberalism that's hanging foul in the air... is a right-wing totally dictatorial tyranny...' In that same interview Bowie claimed that 'Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars.'
What the hell was going on in '76???
...and googling Jimmy Page and Bowie lead me to this:
https://allthatsinteresting.com/lori-maddox
and googling Jimmy Page and Bowie lead me to this
Yep... as I said on page 1.
I don’t think Hitler recorded many songs.
What the hell was going on in ’76???
People just said what they thought rather than dress it up as they do today. People are every bit as racist but find others ways of expressing it, by voting for example. People didn't do very well on a racist ticket back then now they do. Thinly veiled racism is still racism:
00:49
I think Nick Cave is spot on.
I think he was spot on ten years ago when most of my listening was done on CDs. Now most of my listening is done on spotify and every play gives money to shady people (or their rights owners).
Dunno what the solution is. Pirate Bay and then play from local files via spotify? Is it OK to steal music to avoid giving money to despicable individuals who happen to have made really good music?
If we stopped listening and reading and looking at art made by wrong uns, we'd soon run out. Paul Gaugain, TS Elliot, Conrad, Caravaggio Ted Hughes all be in the bin.
Dunno what the solution is
I buy most of my CDs (non-new artists) from eBay. Only Music Magpie gets any money then (hopefully their CEO isn't a Tory).
^ Yes that lower left window is entirely ‘off.’ The perspective is evil af and it has 7 panes where the others have only 6. It feels like that one window is not only looking at you, but right through you
*shudder*
So who can put together the best Wrong Un compilation tape?
Probably going to need peodophilia, murder, racism, beastiality and fascism to have any chance of winning.
No doubt there's plenty of the folk who edit MTB vids lurking on here; they generally have a pretty good grasp of music...
That kind of challenge should be right up their street!!
So who can put together the best Wrong Un compilation tape?
If it means listening to stuff by Jonathan King, Rolf Harris and (urrggh!) the Lost Prophets, I'm out!
But without actually listening to the music, there would be a fantastic list:
Jerry Lee Lewis
Johnny Cash
James Brown
The Who
The Kinks
Gary Glitter
Michael Jackson
The Smiths (I disagree, but they started it)
R Kelly (only Ignition, obv)
50 Cent (dunno what he was in prison for)
.
.
Started a Youtube playlist...
[url=
g'uns[/url]
I thought Johhny Cash was on the side of the angels? Didn't the white supremacists go after him once?
Jonny cash - bit of a wife beater was he not? Certainly a philanderer.
Not sure about "beater" - I thought he shot her! - or threatened his wife with a gun. Can't find any reference to it, so maybe I made it up !
Certainly a philanderer.
Collecting stamps isn't a crime!
Wow. Didn't know that Eric Gill ****ed everything including his sister, kids and dog.
@malvern rider
He wasn't that bad a painter...
Gaahl and Infernus.
Prison didn't stop him recording.
I have a similar conundrum with the acting of Kevin Spacey....
...But you know turns out he’s a horrible creepy bastard?
You do know the entire case against him collapsed 3 months ago after the "victim's" mother was found to have deleted key text messages?
In December 2018, Spacey was charged with a felony for allegedly sexually assaulting journalist Heather Unruh's 18-year-old son in Nantucket, Massachusetts, in July 2016.[117] Spacey pleaded not guilty to the charge on January 7, 2019.[125][126] Unruh's son told police he was texting with his girlfriend throughout the alleged "groping" incident. Spacey's defense attorneys spent months trying to obtain copies of the texts and the phone itself. In mid-May 2019, her son's personal attorney informed the court that the cell phone in question is "missing".[127] On June 4, 2019, the defense learned that when Unruh gave her son's cell phone to police in 2017, she admitted she had deleted some of the text messages.[127] Later that month, her son filed a lawsuit against Spacey, claiming emotional damages. On July 5, 2019, he voluntarily dismissed the claims with prejudice.[128]
On July 17, 2019, the criminal assault charge against Spacey was dropped by the Cape and Islands prosecutors.[129]
Yep Eric Gill was a firm believer of keeping it in the family!
Wrong is wrong, but what I find difficult at times is the need to go back in history and apply modern values to vilify historical figures, unfortunately stuff we don’t like or do was excepted and in some cases legal until society changed and grew, look forward.
He touched me there by the wrong uns is actually a good album and band name.
Can’t believe James Brown hasn’t been mentioned yet. He’s different from all the others mentioned so far in one way though. He’s not shit. Also (not unlike Sly Stone) his antics are more utterly insane than evil. Funk must **** you up
Ike Turner
Ginger Baker
Waters gets mentioned presumably because of his stance on Palestine and BDS (like Eno). Makes him a bit more of a good'un than Yorke or Rotten who were happy to play for the apartheid state.
As a fan of old skool hip hop, I had a fantastic night listening to DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist playing Afrika Bambaata’s vinyl collection. I even bought the t-shirt with a big Bambaata graphic on it.
Then the news came out about Afrika Bambaata’s activists with young boys. Definitely a wrong ‘un, but absolutely interfaith the history of music I love.
Any mention of Poulton le Fylde's finest yet?
Yorke or Rotten who were happy to play for the apartheid state.
As did The Who and Queen at the peak of it. I shall add these to my playlist. It's an open playlist, so get adding!
[url=
g'uns[/url]
[i]Yorke or Rotten who were happy to play for the apartheid state.[/i]
Hang on, did they? 'Rise' was an anti-apartheid song, I thought... Anger is an energy.
Can’t believe James Brown hasn’t been mentioned ye
Maybe not in the thread, but he's in the playlist (oh, I listed him in the playlist post too 🙂
Lead Belly murdered a man and got pardoned because he wrote a sweet blues tune. Also served time before that and escaped. Wrong un or badass?
I refuse to listen to R Kelly. Also after the scandal involving little girls.
Its just music, it doesn’t change lives.
I don't quite know how to express my contempt for such cluelessness.
Wrong is wrong, but what I find difficult at times is the need to go back in history and apply modern values to vilify historical figures, unfortunately stuff we don’t like or do was excepted and in some cases legal until society changed and grew, look forward.
This +1, although some of the wrong 'uns in this thread were wrong then, now and probably forever.
George Washington is a good example of this. Founding father of America etc etc and proud owner and trader of slaves. It doesn't get mentioned that often, but in a histrocial context sort of makes sense.