[Closed] Limit on car sizes?

Personally, I'd just ban power steering.

This hypothesis suggests that bigger cars make people feel more secure, which affects their behaviour in terms of generalized risk taking.

I think a test where a large spike was placed in the centre of the steering wheel would show a remarkable increase in driver and other road-user safety.

I've done this internetgument before, a few years back. If you look at fatalities in road accidents grouped by car type in the US, there is no correlation between big cars and small ones. There were big differences between the safest cars and the most dangerous, but the size of the car was not a factor. That was probably 15 years ago now though, and US trucks have improved somewhat as they were notoriously poor in accidents.

It would be interesting to see UK stats, because smaller cars could be more likely to be driven fast on country roads by young people e.g. Fiesta ST types. And large cars could be more likely to be driven by parents and hence more cautiously. Not sure it's top of my list of things to deal with on UK roads mind.

Can we also ban short cars please. There are so annoying in carparks when they hide right in the depths of the space just to make you think you have found a gap. Crushing is too good for that sort.

On the other hand, large cars are much more likely to be involved in accidents (Abay et al.,  Evans,  Wasielewski & Evans, ), implying their drivers take more risk.

Or maybe they just get closer to other stuff because there's relatively less room for them to manoeuvre.

Big car versus small car, its not pretty

Can we also ban short cars please. There are so annoying in carparks when they hide right in the depths of the space just to make you think you have found a gap. Crushing is too good for that sort.

amen to that

^hehe

Big car versus small car, its not pretty

Still stuggling to work out how they managed to flip it, Yaris didn't seem to budge an inch!

All cars should be small and absolutely minimalist, like a caterham with the aforementioned big spike in the steering wheel

Bring back Colin Chapman

Small cars are more eco friendly in every way and more fun to drive

Still stuggling to work out how they managed to flip it, Yaris didn’t seem to budge an inch!

Carjitsu

But, but... where do all the bikes and camping gear and stuff go?

This is going to sound really silly as someone who goes most places by bike but...
I feel really vulnerable in a small car. I never liked driving my ex's Yaris (later the Gnusmobile) for this reason, I felt much safer in the 3 Series which replaced it.
I currently have a Mk7 Transit, probably less safe in most crashes than a new Golf for example but I feel safer in it. Driving a forward-control van is terrifying.
Having said that, maybe being more concerned does make me more careful, which I guess is the OP's point. I have no worries on a bike though.

Can we ban cars as 100% of cars polute, can cause accidents, can take up too much space, can exceed speed limits, can be driven by the accident prone, can be driven by the oblivious,can be driven by Dail Mail readers. If we must have cars minimalist would be good.

Before we start banning things, can we resolve the issues that led to them being created?

It is sometimes more difficult to cure the disease than treat the symptoms but usually more effective.

All cars should be small and absolutely minimalist, like a caterham

Still two wheels too many.

But, but… where do all the bikes and camping gear and stuff go?

Audi A1 3 door owner.
Bikes go on the roof, camping equiment in the boot and rear seats.

I'm in the small cars are fun category.

I remember driving around in my old 1997 mini cooper, back in the early 2000's - I felt vulnerable in that as it was so close to the ground and so small, my eye line was at wheel level for some cars. I used to drive with the headlights on for extra visibility. Back when headlights in the daytime meant either a motorbike or a car that was 'making progress'.

Passed one on the motorway a couple of months ago, I'd forgotten just how tiny they are compared to modern cars.

Before we start banning things, can we resolve the issues that led to them being created?

It is sometimes more difficult to cure the disease than treat the symptoms but usually more effective.

A psychological test as part of the driving test? I'd get behind that.

The running cost of a big car compared to a small car are little different.

Unless you have local parking issues big cars are better in every way. Safer. More comfortable. Carry more stuff.

The size of some Chelsea tractors is getting ridiculous. I work as a lorry driver for a builders merchants in suburbia, and the extra width of them, when parked by the roadside causes no end of access problems.

My first car was an MG Midget and I still have a hankering to get another. However, when I see one on the road I realise it would be something I’d dread even though it would probably be OK on the tiny roads around the island. Funnily enough, I’ve only seen 2 accidents here - first a council worker managed to put a brand-new £70k JCB telehandler upside-down in the ditch. Just this week, a local farmer put their 4x4 pick-up upside down in the same place! Those big pickups like Dodge Rams are just mental - when I used to go to the US on business, I’d often get a better deal to hire a pick-up rather than a mid-size. I nearly came unstuck once trying to manoeuvre a Chevy Suburban out of an airport underground parking lot - it barely fitted between the pillars.

This week I have had enough of cars or more correctly the drivers I went and had a ride round Laureen's ride in Chesire. I had enough scares in 32 miles caused by other drivers who completely needlessly executed extreemly close passes, people in big 4x4s who could not be bothered to move over a bit and share the space and general pathetic driving to make question why I ride a bike. I have been cycling since I was 5 years old, have riden motorcycles,comuted to work in Manchester for 30 years and have never felt less safe.

A limit on car size, power and enforcing some speed limits might be start.

Never had my main car as anything bigger than Fiesta-sized and never felt like getting anything bigger. Did have an Audi 80 as a winter banger for a few years and it annoyed me having to find bigger parking spaces at times. So yes, bigger cars aren't really necessary.

Can we also ban short cars please. There are so annoying in carparks when they hide right in the depths of the space just to make you think you have found a gap. Crushing is too good for that sort.

That was a favourite game of mine when on the IOW in my Mini last summer, amused a few of the locals for 20 mins while I was in a cafe and pretty much every car that went past thought there was a space free until the last second. One even got a bit sweary...

Passed one on the motorway a couple of months ago, I’d forgotten just how tiny they are compared to modern cars.

I did lose it behind an Aygo for a few minutes once 🤣

But, but… where do all the bikes and camping gear and stuff go?

I used to have family holidays with 4 of us (2 adults, 2 kids) all over the UK and occasionally to France, never failed to get tents, bikes and general stuff into two small cars*. Would have been fine with 1 car and a small trailer which is what I plan to do if needed as getting a bigger car for that one odd journey every year is just pointless.

* small cars as in Uno's, Panda's, 126 Bis', Metro's and the giant that is a 127.

The running cost of a big car compared to a small car are little different.

Unless you have local parking issues big cars are better in every way. Safer. More comfortable. Carry more stuff.

Everything that's wrong with the world in two short sentences. How efficient of you. Quite the contrast with your choice of conveyance.

Weigh more, consume more, use more space. And as for safer...why is every car on the school run an SUV? "because its safer" but if there were no SUVs/Big cars, everyone would be a little safer, not just the selfish, entitled morons piloting them in "safety", "comfort" and apparent obliviousness.

[IMG] [/IMG]

It’s truly amazing how many people ‘need’ a big suv to move them and occasionally their wife/gf the 2.2 miles to work.
I can’t back up this assertion in any way, but if we all drove fiesta sized cars, all kept down to reasonable speeds, all paid attention to maintenance/tyre pressure etc, and I suspect, the biggest thing of all, stopped binning the bloody things after 2-3 years and buying a new one to replace it, the world and the resources contained therein, would be in much better condition. Aint gonna happen though.

Legalise those electric scooters. They are the solution to urban congestion.

Genuinely, i agree with that.

The Japanese have been at it for a while

Legalise those electric scooters. They are the solution to urban congestion.

yes they are, but currently they are only used by arseholes, in the main, because they can't afford a 50cc scooter, or a licence to be even bigger aresesoles, and are a general menace.

Unless you have local parking issues big cars are better in every way.

The Japanese have been at it for a while

If the consultation on extending the ban on parking on pavements countrywide is implemented I wonder if this will have an effect on the size of cars people choose? Yeah, I know, I doubt it either..

It would be interesting to see UK stats,

There used to be data for Europe at least - but I'm not sure if whatever agency that was collecting it still does - it was a sort of real-world comparator to NCAP - an alternative to their laboratory condition crash tests which brought how likely the cars were to crash into the equation  - it collected data on the accident rate and severity of outcome across different makes and models which helped reveal useful stuff like some higher NCAP rated cars being involved in more accidents probably because the more enclosed driver has poorer visibility. But also showed how a cars crash-safety performance wains over time with wear and tear.

Howwweeevver - despite cars being bigger and heavier and there being ever more of them on the road...... Europe wide road fatalities fell  from 33,000 per year in 2009  to 23,000 in 2019. The average rate of car ownship has increased across Europe in that time as has the population - so that fall has to be factored against increasing traffic.

Legalise those electric scooters. They are the solution to urban congestion.

yes they are, but currently they are only used by arseholes, in the main, because they can’t afford a 50cc scooter, or a licence to be even bigger aresesoles, and are a general menace.

This calls for a battle-rap

Unless you have local parking issues big cars are better in every way.

The Japanese have been at it for a while

I just found my next car, hook the bikes on the back and away i go

Still stuggling to work out how they managed to flip it, Yaris didn’t seem to budge an inch!

The rangerover was accelerating rather than braking. With their foot on the accerator the front wheels are driven rather than coasting and when when they hit the rear corner of the other car the wheel climbed up the edge of the cars tyre.

But, but… where do all the bikes and camping gear and stuff go?

Public Transport of course!

You will pay a fortune to arrive nowhere near your destination four times longer than it would've taken by car, surrounded by coughing, sneezing lepers and nasty tinny mobile phone music. Oh, and "no bikes onboard mate, or camping gear".

Public Transport my anoos.

The Japanese have been at it for a while

I'd love a Honda S660. I reckon I could use one daily without any issues, you can even get a towbar for them for a bike rack!

Insulation goes a long way to a feeling of security.

My elderly 80s car had all the foam under the carpet removed, as it was rotten. The steering is power assisted, but only minimally. There are no driver aids, airbags or abs at all.

It has somewhere north of 300bhp and will bounce off the rev limiter at 150mph but due to the the noise, terrible headlights and feeling of speed, rather than actual speed (and obviously legality) it's usually traveling slower than everything else.

Howwweeevver – despite cars being bigger and heavier and there being ever more of them on the road…… Europe wide road fatalities fell from 33,000 per year in 2009 to 23,000 in 2019. The average rate of car ownship has increased across Europe in that time as has the population – so that fall has to be factored against increasing traffic

More cars in the same area = they're all going slower?
Bigger and heavier cars but more safer to crash in? Or hit pedestrians with?
I'm all for following the Japan idea. Restrict overall size hugely, makes vehicles much more effective in use of space. It does, however, generally mean they all grow upwards rather than outwards.
Electric cars should be limited to 70mph too.

Electric cars should be limited to 70mph too

Why only electric cars? Why only cars?

More cars in the same area = they’re all going slower?

Are you and the people around you driving slower than you were ten years ago?

The size of modern cars is absolutely preposterous. I walked past an X7 and a new Defender today and they are gargantuan.

I find it incredible that people still buy the **** things. The amount of 71 plate Rangeys (not ewoks or velars but full fat vogue or often SVRs) absolutely blows my mind!

I couldn’t even nearly be arsed to park one of the things. Totally unsuitable for built up areas but they’re literally everywhere.. and the excuses for owning them! I wish people would just say “I like big cars so I bought one”

Anyway I’ll climb down off my soapbox and wind my neck in now

Edit: before I do.. also interested in why only EVs should be limited? ICE cars use a fair chunk of natural resources bouling around at above 70.

Are you and the people around you driving slower than you were ten years ago?

Yep. Plentiful info around on Google for that. Also lots of data on speeds increasing from (say) 2018 to 2020. No real surprises there as a lot of it would be down to lockdown. Much less traffic on the road = faster average speeds.

Edit: before I do.. also interested in why only EVs should be limited? ICE cars use a fair chunk of natural resources bouling around at above 70.

Oh, I just put that in for a joke.

Used to be that the vw polo and vauxhall corsa were the smallest in the ranges, but now they've grown up (bloated) manufacturers have bought in new small cars like the Up & Viva in those cases, I recon part of it will be the motoring press slating new models if they aren't seen as an "improvement" on the outgoing versions.

Having a car 1ft shorter than my old one is a godsend for parking in that there London when I have too.

The Japanese have been at it for a while

And about a foot shorter than me...

It was only once we got into the 2000's that I properly fitted into 'average' cars. I've long legs and until then in most ordinary sized cars I'd have the seat back to the stops - with consequential limited space behind me.

but if we all drove fiesta sized cars

I only want to buy one car, that suits me for 99% of what I need - and my (current) car will seat 4 adults happily, with luggage, take me and my XL 29er with only the front wheel out, it's AWD which I need as we're rural in Scotland.

But it does do 50mpg.

Oh, and anyone who thinks we ought to go back to pre-power steering is either senile or has just forgotten how crap they were.

Oh, and anyone who thinks we ought to go back to pre-power steering is either senile or has just forgotten how crap they were.

I think the idea was that yummy mummies wouldn't be capable of driving Chelsea tractors & would be forced to drive smaller cars or do more gym sessions.

Oh, and anyone who thinks we ought to go back to pre-power steering is either senile or has just forgotten how crap they were

Most but not all were crap. My 1972 105 series Alfa Giulia GT Junior had great steering that wasn’t too heavy. But then it had 165 section tyres and weighed just under a ton.
My first Mk. 1 Golf Gti had wider lower profile tyres but was fine again because it wasn’t really heavy. Modern cars have wider lower profile tyres and they are heavy which are only acceptable because of power steering. You could make a non power steering system acceptably light but it would be ridiculously low geared.

Unless you have local parking issues big cars are better in every way.

@irc - except for for the environment, the single most important thing in the world. Bigger heavier car = more materials = massively bigger environmental impact during manufacture and worse when being driven around.

Of course there should be a limit on car sizes. For safety and the environment. My wife's been wondering for years why there isn't a tax on vehicles based on dimensions as well as CO2 output. No one except for farmers and the odd construction contractor needs an SUV or pick up truck. Hardly anyone actually needs a car as big as an estate (no, your bike doesn't have to live inside. Put it on a rack and get a roofbox). And absolutely no one needs a van for their hobby.

I hope all this will become moot in the next few decades - I doubt we'll own a car once our current one dies. We take the train on most trips further afield and car sharing will be the default in urban areas soon. It'll only be people in isolated communities and prigs who will drive cars they actually own.

But all this is back to the bizarrely regular argument we have on a cycling focussed website - most people on here don't give a shit about the environment or anyone else and will keep buying SUVs so that my generation and younger burn.

Bikes go on the roof, camping equiment in the boot and rear seats.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha. Throw 2 kids and a dog into the mix and see where that gets you for a two week camping holiday.

Still stuggling to work out how they managed to flip it, Yaris didn’t seem to budge an inch!

I suppose it is one of the downsides of driving an off road vehicle with approach angles to make it good off road. A normal car with low bumpers and bad approach angle would not have done the same.

I had only owned Toyota Aygos for the last 11 years. I have carried a bike in it, have gone to the tip (a lot) with quite a lot of crap each time and I feel totally safe driving it.

I do however rarely go on motorways but for town and rural driving the small size is a benefit, the light weight can be felt when accelerating, braking and cornering and I enjoy driving it more than any big car.

If everyone had to drive an Aygo I can't really see that as a bad thing.

I’ve nonissue with big cars per se, it’s more cars that have a big footprint yet relatively small interior space that get my goat.
My Discovery is a big motor. But it’s huge inside and easily swallows a 4 man team’s worth of rope/tree kit or 2 dogs and a couple of weeks worth of camping kit. Add the 4x4 gubbins underneath and it has to be the size it is, if that makes sense?
But there seem to be lots of cars (like the lower numbered BMW ‘X’ cars) that are huge but have small cabins. Or even just things like a few years ago we had a 5 door Focus & the BIL had a Ford Kuga which was bigger on the outside but actually had less cabin/boot space than the Focus. To me it seemed to be that it was styled to be a big chunky SUV but was actually less practical than the ‘normal’ hatchback with the possible exception of being a bit taller so easier to get the kids into their seats. But was the tighter internal space worth it just to save bending over? I guess not as they did t hang on to it for long and traded out for an Octavia.
I’ve also got an R53 Cooper S which was one of the first BMW produced Minis. At the time it was massive compared to the original Mini but now on the road it seems to be tiny even compared to the newer Minis.

We've just bought a 10 year old Aygo as a 'bail out' for son (busted his Fabia Monte Carlo - don't ask) and for daughter to learn in.

I've fixed a few issues - known to leak around the boot - perished light seals, and replaced the front discs and pads and general service parts. Discs and pads were, wait for it, £38.

It's incredibly light, only has 68 bhp, but is flipping nippy. It returns really good economy - 60 plus. It's a bit noisy compared to our insulated big cars, but some additional flooring foam under the boot carpet has reduced it significantly.

We've got a 'posher' one, 6 speakers, bluetooth, electric windows and air con. They are still very basic though. It's blooming ideal for town though, narrow, short and nips into spaces. I prefer to take this to the shops and local trips than the big cars. I've done a bit of motorway driving in it, and it's happy enough at 70 - I wouldn't want to be going 90 in it though, although it will do it. It doesn't feel that small driving, until you come to reverse, and the back window is just a few inches away - my car is probably twice as long as the Aygo.

Once my son has his back working, we intend to use it for commuting - will cut fuel bills down in half, although I've gone back to cycling to work.

Other plus point, you can hand wash it in about 5 minutes, it's that small. Son's mates have commented on how much rear room there is for passengers compared to their Corsas, fiestas, Leon's etc.

I've read up on all the little issues these cars can have, but they are silly cheap to look after.

we were thinking of just keeping this for 6 months and selling on, but I think it's a keeper.

UK roads and parking spaces make driving anything past 2m wide or 5m long pretty tricky anyway, so it's a self-limiting thing.

Something like the new Defender 110 looks big but it's smaller than a T5/T6 SWB, and those occupy most of the trail centre carparks just to carry a bicycle about.

I love a kei car but they're dying out in Japan as the incentives aren't as high. The main benefit is escaping the need to prove you own or rent a suitably sized parking space, although in the cities there's nowhere to park anyway as they don't do overnight street parking.

We’re a two car house and have one car from each end of the size spectrum. I’ve got a Skoda Superb estate ands The Wife has a VW UP! (Don’t forget the !)

The UP! is brilliant round town for two people. Three if the front seat passenger likes to be intimate with the dash board. There’s almost zero leg room in the back.

My Skoda can swallow the world. Both my boys, adults now, are both well over 6 foot, I’m the same, so nearly every car we’ve had has been a compromise with cabin space. Except the Skoda and the Passat before it. We now travel in comfort, I hadn’t realised that you can get out of a car after a few hundred miles and not need a full body muscular-skeletal realignment to be able to stand up. Thank heavens for big cars.

A friend of my Wife’s came around on Saturday morning, she parked her new car on the drive to avoid the residents parking restrictions, I walked out of the gate into the drive to be confronted by a monster of an SUV. A Hyundai Tucson. It was massive. I had a look round it and the cabin and boot space is small, she admitted that it’s smaller than the Golf she had before. Me being 6’4”, I couldn’t see the whole roof or reach across the bonnet.

The reason she bought it? She didn’t feel safe in a small car like a Golf. It’s an arms race to get the feeling of safety or to be higher than all of the other big, safe, tall cars on the road. She lives on the edge of town so no snow bound country roads to navigate, no crossing the odd field with the low profile sports tyres.

The reason she bought it? She didn’t feel safe in a small car like a Golf. It’s an arms race to get the feeling of safety or to be higher than all of the other big, safe, tall cars on the road. She lives on the edge of town so no snow bound country roads to navigate, no crossing the odd field with the low profile sports tyres.

And yet the study I linked to at the start suggest that BIG car drivers have more accidents and worse accidents (note: no evidence of cause vs symptom). She statistically would be safer in the Golf...!

A Hyundai Tucson. It was massive.

They really aren't. It's 60mm wider, 200mm taller and 100mm shorter than a Golf estate

Compared to, say a Discovery - 200mm wider, 400mm taller and 300mm longer than a Golf estate

Well, it’s rather subjective about size. It filled my drive. The Skoda doesn’t and that’s similar size to an oil tanker.

The drive is enclosed on three sides with fencing, I couldn’t walk round it or see over it.

And she had a Golf hatch previously, not an estate. I had a mk4 Golf estate and that certainly was longer than the hatch and had lots more boot space.

They really aren’t. It’s 60mm wider, 200mm taller and 100mm shorter than a Golf estate

Compared to, say a Discovery – 200mm wider, 400mm taller and 300mm longer than a Golf estate

No, It's not. It's 200mm taller 60mm wider and 200mm longer than a Golf (not estate), but it's the cubic volume that really hits home. The Golf is 11.09m^3 vs. 13.7m^3. It's over 35% bigger, despite carrying no more people and little more stuff.

All SUVs basically have this slab of volume on top of which sits a normal hatchback. That's why they look so big, They're bulky, not so much big in any particular dimension.

People won't change unless they are incentivised to.

Tax cars based on emissions x weight x length or similar.

The ridiculous spectacle of Q7s and full size Range Rovers dropping a single child at school has to be priced out of existence

The ridiculous spectacle of Q7s and full size Range Rovers dropping a single child at school has to be priced out of existence

Not just that. Even if you had 6 kids a better solution would be an MPV. They should only be available based on strict need. You could ban them and only make LR Defenders available. That way people who need them to drive off-road still could, but no-one else would want one 🙂

And yet the study I linked to at the start suggest that BIG car drivers have more accidents and worse accidents (note: no evidence of cause vs symptom). She statistically would be safer in the Golf…!

My exSIL and also Cousin's wife both ended up in wheelchairs when hit by other vehicles when driving (older) Golf's.

My Brother changed to big saloons (Legacy's and the like) and my Cousin to Disco's.

I don't get this 'I don't feel safe' thing. They must be terribly anxious people. Too many people driving too big cars.

Try riding a bike...

I don’t get this ‘I don’t feel safe’ thing. They must be terribly anxious people. Too many people driving too big cars.

I agree, if all the anxious drivers and those who just dont like driving could be convinced or helped into a car free lifestyle then all our road issues would be solved.

and what we really need is anxious driver in BIGGER cars!

My Brother changed to big saloons (Legacy’s and the like) and my Cousin to Disco’s.

Do they realise they are a part of the problem and that bigger cars are not the solution.

They are the solution to carrying more people comfortably, carrying more stuff and being safer if you collide with a smaller vehicle.

Even if you had 6 kids a better solution would be an MPV. They should only be available based on strict need. You could ban them

No, not this at all. You might want a society where we are constantly told what we can and can't have, but just no

What next - you don't need a house that size, it's not environmentally friendly, you're only allowed to buy one big enough for your needs?

You're only allowed one holiday a year

You don't need any more children, you're only allowed two.

You see where it ends up?

and being safer if you collide with a smaller vehicle.

And if you don't see the irony in that ...well.

Just like in the playground - there's always someone bigger than you.

Cars have got much bigger over the last 30 years, unfortunately the streets haven’t. The main road through my village has parked cars most of the way along and while two smaller cars can pass, two SUVs certainly can’t, this regularly escalated into road rage, people mounting the pavement etc., and generally makes it a less pleasant place to live.

It would be good to have a rapidly escalating tax once cars got over a certain width, with this tax given back to owners of smaller cars. That way they are paying something back to all the people they inconvenience.

No, not this at all. You might want a society where we are constantly told what we can and can’t have, but just no

It was tongue in cheek, but ultimately someone has to tell us 'no' don't they?

You see where it ends up?

A saved planet? (Devil's advocate here)

Just scrap VED and put the tax on fuel, the more you burn, the more you pay.

Much less admin for the DVLA too, so a huge saving there.

Just scrap VED and put the tax on fuel, the more you burn, the more you pay

Thanks, you've just done over every rural place in the UK, particularly Cornwall, Wales and Scotland.

Scrapping VED and dumping it in fuel doesn’t help when yummy mummy or lifestyle dad with his T5/T6/Disco who only drives 100miles a week to and from school and shopping.

People who buy a self indulgent **** panzer need to be taxed sooo hard that their assholes literally pucker up at the thought of the monthly payment cost. It needs to be outrageous!

They are the solution to carrying more people comfortably, carrying more stuff and being safer if you collide with a smaller vehicle.

@irc Have you ever considered not treating more vulnerable road users as expendable inconveniences?

Scrapping VED and dumping it in fuel doesn’t help when yummy mummy or lifestyle dad with his T5 only drives 100miles a week to and from school and shopping.

To be honest I think the opposite. I'd rather fuel was at least £1/liter more, which would make train travel slightly cheaper than driving (by my back of an envelope maths my off-peak Newcastle-Reading return ticket costs about 30mpg).

Then make road tax a scale based on the age of the car. Say 10% of its value in year 1, down to 1% at year 10 and thereafter. That accounts for the emissions in its production and removes the ability to carry on the current bonkers status-quo where a family of 4 expects to be able to have 4 cars and park them all on the street (because 1% is still a lot unless it's a small car).

There will always be a use case where personal cars make sense, the tax system just needs to work to reflect this.

On the other hand, I commute roughly weekly from Newcastle to Reading and back. I find it utterly contemptible that I live in a society that incentivizes me to do that by car!

n.b. I split it between the car and the train depending on the time of day I finish the shift, whether there are engineering works on the day i need to travel, etc.

Thanks, you’ve just done over every rural place in the UK, particularly Cornwall, Wales and Scotland.

To be fair, the current system does over every community affected by rising sea levels and extreme weather events. Take your choice, the privately-owned T5 used as a runaround gets taxed into oblivion, or the houses get flooded.

Thanks, you’ve just done over every rural place in the UK, particularly Cornwall, Wales and Scotland.

Farm vehicles already have leeway, if you want to drive to tesco, buy a honda jazz.

Scrapping VED and dumping it in fuel doesn’t help when yummy mummy or lifestyle dad with his T5 only drives 100miles a week to and from school and shopping.

of course it does, the standing weight of a 2 tonne chelsea tractor with 20 inch rims and the aero of a small house will burn more fuel than a fiesta, especialy in stop-start traffic like the school run.