[Closed] “Lifetime Warranties”. Argh.

It's always been thus no? Lifetime of the product, not lifetime of you. They can deem the lifetime of the product to be whatever they like and not specify it afaics

It’s always been thus no? Lifetime of the product, not lifetime of you.

Not exactly "always" AFAIK, first remember this creeping in with regard to titanium frames - clearly as a damage limitation exercise by bike brands who hadn't realised so many of them would crack.

I'd love to see it challenged in court (go on OP!), as there's clearly a disjoint between the common sense interpretation and the weasel words in the small print.

And two years for a bottle is silly anyway.

2 years is not a lifetime! I've had head colds that last longer than that! Kick up a stink on social media if you can be bothered (this is a good start).

Surely the lifetime of the product is the biggest get out clause going? If it needs a warranty repair/replace then it's simply "nah mate, it's reached the end of it's lifetime becasue of that failure"

Cheers guys.

I think there’s a case, especially as they’ve now actually quantified it and my 15+ year old “inferior” bottles that cost a fraction of the price are still fine in comparison.

The cycling community should be looking out for each other, not duping. Especially at Camelbak’s relative prices! If it’s 2 years, say so, don’t say lifetime. It’s stupid and misleading.

Camelbak aren't 'cycling'.

They are owned by a conglomerate who won many arms brands.

So evil corp.

Same happened with a North Face tent I own, NF didn’t want to know and were utterly unhelpful

They are owned by a conglomerate who won many arms brands.

So

marketed to people with a shorter life expectancy 🙂

Bought a couple of them for ~£6 from Merlin in late 2017 or early 2018 IIRC, they better not die this year!

Might help they didn't see the sun much last year, partly due to weather, but also my severe lack of outdoor rides in general due to lurgy/injury.

Must confess I didn't know they had "lifetime guarantee," but I'd expect them to last 4+ years providing they didn't bounce out of the bottle cages and down the road while quite full. Doesn't mention it at https://www.merlincycles.com/camelbak-podium-big-chill-bottle-750ml-25oz-68532.html

The other crap thing about these "lifetime" warranteis is when they only apply to the original purchaser. So why would your product only be good enough for the first user then, not the bloke who has it second hand.

Complete get out clause, really should be challanged in a court.

Surely the lifetime of the product is the biggest get out clause going? If it needs a warranty repair/replace then it’s simply “nah mate, it’s reached the end of it’s lifetime becasue of that failure”

I dunno, stuff wears out, or in the case of metals/plastics degrades and fatigues over time.

So in the case of a Ti frame they're saying it's warrantied against defects in the manufacturing or the material for the lifetime of the frame. So if it cracks because the weld was contaminated or didn't penetrate or was too hot etc then that's covered. If it cracks because you've just reached the fatigue limit of the material then that's the lifetime of the frame.

If you've used the bottle enough for UV degradation to occur that's a lifetime of the product, or left it on the windowsill then that's not a manufacturing defect.

e.g. I've just sent a tyre back under warranty because it developed a bulge, over a year old, but the tread isn't worn so it's within it's 'lifetime'. Although I don't think there's any mention of warranty length it's just kinda expected that a tyre should wear out before it fails of it's own accord

Where it's a bit shakier I think is when they say lifetime, then define a number of years. IMO cracking a water bottle isn't a warranty thing, that's just the end of it's life. But if a seam on it split after 5 years of never being used that would be a manufacturing defect within it's lifetime surely?

The other crap thing about these “lifetime” warranteis is when they only apply to the original purchaser. So why would your product only be good enough for the first user then, not the bloke who has it second hand.

You can't have it both ways. If it was lifetime of whoever owned it then it would just be an infinite warranty, which is stooppid.

Go to camelbak, they say only dealer deals with warranty. Go to dealer (CRC). They say sorry but item only has 2 year warranty…

Someone is conflating warranty and guarantee.

Under the Consumer Rights Act, products legally have a guarantee and it is down to the seller to deal with this. Any warranty offered by the manufacturer is above and beyond the statutory guarantee and is nothing to do with the seller. If Camelback are offering a "lifetime warranty" then it is Camelback who should be honouring this warranty, not CRC.

I'm trying to complain about a refused warranty from Berghaus. A zip failed within two years on a £200 jacket which was used only for causal duties. The jacket supposedly has a lifetime warranty.

I'm trying to take it through the consumer ombudsman but, just to add another layer to the onion of my rage, their website is terrible and won't let me create an account.

So in the case of a Ti frame they’re saying it’s warrantied against defects in the manufacturing or the material for the lifetime of the frame. So if it cracks because the weld was contaminated or didn’t penetrate or was too hot etc then that’s covered. If it cracks because you’ve just reached the fatigue limit of the material then that’s the lifetime of the frame.

I think Lysnkey warrantied my Ragley Ti on the basis that the frame design was flawed in the sense that the straight downtube meant the headtube wasn't adequately supported, so flex there cracked the downtube near the headtube junction. ie: it flexed more than it should have.

One brand I've found brilliant with warranty is Giro. They've replaced two broken saddles for me now after using the submission form on their website. Great service.

I have plenty of Camelbak bottles (including a couple of Big Chills) that are years old. Did you leave it out in the baking sun for days on end, or on a windowsill or something?

Money Saving Expert website has a decent guide for "satisfactory quality" etc, such as this. Agree that 2 years is crap.

Someone is conflating warranty and guarantee.

If Camelback are offering a “lifetime warranty” then it is Camelback who should be honouring this warranty, not CRC.

ZyroFisher are the UK distributer so probably be worth contacting them.
https://www.zyrofisher.co.uk/camelbak

I know we’ve done this before but I don’t think there is any difference legally, I think the terms are used interchangeable. In any case, it’s the OP calling it a “warranty”, Camelbak themselves call it a “guarantee”.

I wasn't really commenting on the language, I was using those terms to help differentiate. Point was that a manufacture's warranty / guarantee / whatever is different from (and in addition to) your legal consumer rights.

They state on their website that they deal directly with US claims, anything outside of the US must be dealt with by the retailer or distributor, which is fair enough IMO.

ZyroFisher are the UK distributer so probably be worth contacting them.
https://www.zyrofisher.co.uk/camelbak/blockquote >

Cool, nice catch. If they're providing a voluntary additional warranty then they can set whatever terms they like. What they can't do (AFAIK) is offer the earth and make it a retailer's problem to honour. If they have an official distributor then that's different, and (hopefully) probably what they meant when they referred the OP to the "dealer" - it'll be ZF not CRC.

 

I've given up on them, I mean they can withdraw them retrospectively - I bought a Spesh once "Lifetime frame warranty, you break it, you get a new one!"

Then I broke it. "Sorry mate, not covered"

"Why? I was using it as intended"

Seems in the 5 years since I bought it, Spesh decided that they'd replaced too many frames under warranty so they re-clarified "lifetime" as 5 years, because that's how long they think a bike should last "but mine is just under 5 years old" "yeah then it seemed they'd replaced a lot of rear triangles on their FS bikes because they cracked a lot, so they reduced that to 2 years."

Camelbak aren’t ‘cycling’.

They are owned by a conglomerate who won many arms brands.

So evil corp.

This man speaks the truth, Camelbak has always been tied to military interests... about 40% of their business in fact.

So, when it comes to guarantees, I suppose 2 years could easily be a lifetime in the dark world of private military contractors and the like...

https://twitter.com/abeaube/status/1074034714728529920

Wonder why Trump recently pardoned Rudy Giuliani's longtime pal in all things shady anyhoo...

I’ve given up on them, I mean they can withdraw them retrospectively – I bought a Spesh once “Lifetime frame warranty, you break it, you get a new one!”

Then I broke it. “Sorry mate, not covered”

“Why? I was using it as intended”

Seems in the 5 years since I bought it, Spesh decided that they’d replaced too many frames under warranty so they re-clarified “lifetime” as 5 years, because that’s how long they think a bike should last “but mine is just under 5 years old” “yeah then it seemed they’d replaced a lot of rear triangles on their FS bikes because they cracked a lot, so they reduced that to 2 years.”

Spesh warranty used to be legendary. For example, they sent me a brand new wheelset when the freehub on my Camber went after a couple of months. This was back in 2012. Now their warranty is not so good. They're a brand I avoid now for this reason.

I personally think that a lot of mtb stuff is poorly made, and not fit for its intended usage. Forks are the perfect example. There's probably very few riders on this forum that haven't had to warranty a set of forks from the top two i.e. Fox / Rockshox. Why this is I really don't know -weight saving obsession leading to components that can't handle a bit of rough and tough maybe?

In my opinion, this is the Great British scam. For example, no American would accept this, they would kick off, get a lawyer, take out a case and get compensation. Manufacturers know this so they don't mess with the Americans but everyone else is fair game.

In the UK with our stuff upper lip we just suck it up and get on with it.

A perfect example is the vw scam.

The U. S. A (as per Google)

VW emissions scandal: $14.7bn settlement approved as biggest in US history

Volkswagen will buy back or fix 475,000 cars in the US, and all owners are set to get compensation of up to $10,000

The UK (as per Google)

DIESELGATE
Volkswagen diesel compensation fight for 1.2million British VW diesel owners to start TOMORROW – and there’s still time to claim

A lawsuit representing more than 55,000 owners is being brought against the VW Group over the Dieselgate scandal. It claims British owners deserve a compensation payout over the 'defeat devices'

Op, you need to complain, post it on twitter, Facebook etc. Name and shame. 2 years for a plastic bottle is pathetic.

Or you could just recycle it and use another one and get on with your life

How much fight have you got in you? I got a new Mondraker frame out of Silverfish, then paid the difference to get a complete bike, but only after months of emails and embarrassing them here and on Facebook.

**** me, it's a bottle.

Add Cannondale and Kona to the warranty list of shame

Jesus Christ,I wish this was my main worry in life.

A friend of mine had a Trek with a lifetime warranty. About twenty years after buying it the frame cracked.

They replaced the frame with the closest current model, no questions asked, and offered to pay to have it rebuilt.

As I said, it’s first world problems, yeah it’s only a bottle, but maybe there’ll be some info on this thread that’ll help someone with a bigger ticket item.

It’s not been left in the sun or window sill, just had normal use in all seasons (mainly summer though), and way less use than my £1 Trek bottle that is over 15 years old and still fine.

My point is it’s either a design fault in speccing that plastic or a fault with the plastic itself (possible bad batch). It should last 15 years, my £1 Trek one has? Same conditions, same user. And using the term lifetime is misleading, especially as CRC have now quantified that as 2 years. Just say 2 years in the first place.

Contacted distributor, they said go to retailer. Contacted CRC, they said it’s 2 years sorry bye.

Still living/riding ok, drinking from my Trek and Elite bottles.

I personally think that a lot of mtb stuff is poorly made, and not fit for its intended usage. Forks are the perfect example.

I'll see your forks and raise you dropper posts. How on earth has it proven to be near impossible for anyone to produce a dropper that lasts more than a few months of intensive use?

I've had reverb, Integra and now one up, none have lasted less than a couple of years.

Mate of mine services them, pretty much no one maintains their own, or uses a rear mudguards.

Dropper posts have been sorted out now TBF.

Just had to re-grease the collar on my OneUp a few times in 18 months of heavy-ish use.

Will give it a proper service shortly just 'cos it's time.

While the OP might be going a bit overboard about a bottle, the general principle of not-lifetime guarantees being described as such is a legitimate bugbear.