You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
That's most of us here then
😀
The difference between Zoé and the T6 will pay a lot of luxurious overnights.
I don't think things are quite as bad here in the UK, there are little cheap camp sites dotted around where you can literally just pitch up and stick some cash in the honesty box for however nights you want.
I found one in South Devon, it's £10/night, £12 for a camper, with an extra £1.50 for another car/awning, and a lovely view across Start Bay towards Dartmouth harbour.
I think there are places far enough from habitation to be able to get away with a sneaky night or two, especially if you're not having to pitch a tent, and your vehicle is robust enough to handle fire-roads and byways/BOATS/RUPP's, like that T3 Syncro that's taken my fancy.
All I need is the moderate lottery win to buy one and get it kitted out...
The difference between the camp site and the pub B&B in the village is around £60/night, before including eating there in the evening.
My old 4x4 Octavia is a 'lifestyle' vehicle, basically a pickup with a roof, has left me with more money for bikes and holidays, happy enough to charge through the woods and across fields in it.
Wouldn't sleep in it though, the thing stinks and will never get rid of all the straw.
They do things like this to them
Just had another look at the example you've posted up, and I'm actually wondering just what the point is you're trying to make, because, apart from a posh set of wheels, that van is, as far as I can see, pretty much a stock van as it comes from a dealer.
The black stripes along the sills really don't count.
But it looks like someone has replaced the tyres with elastic bands.
It's been lowered hasn't it?
Headlights seem to have eyelids as well.
Couple of days up in the highlands in ours as the mrs was running in The Devil o'the highlands. Loaded with camping kit, running kit, dogs and crates the t5 was a super flexible vehicle. Tailgate made a great umbrella in Kinlochleven when waiting for runners, then became a sunshade.
Did everything needed - easy enough to park, goes well, reasonable fuel, rubber floor makes for an easier life, other brands are available but for a family vehicle it works better than an estate car.
We dont sleep in it, tents are generally more comfortable so carry a couple of 3man vango when we are away. Ymmv.
I like vw, have had a good few - no point buying something that you dont smile at when you see it..
The hate is strong on this thread, an envious middle aged man is truly a scornful beast.
A swb Transit bus with the rear seats removed would be perfect I reckon.
T4 Caravelle is more or less this (the rear seats don't come fully out without a socket set, but fold out of the way). It's a car too, so cheap Severn Bridge tolls, 70mph on dual carriageways (if you can get to 70) and fun conversations at the local recycling center (take the V5). Can get lots of bikes in (4 bike fiamma rear rack, maybe 3 in the boot with wheel off)
Also not old enough to be trendy, too old to be flash.
The difference between the camp site and the pub B&B in the village is around £60/night
quite. You could do a couple of nights in a hotel every month for the next 45 years before you'd spent as much as new T6. Assuming you didn't have to tax or insure the T6, that is...
Even fitting out a second hand van (12 - 15k?) would buy you a decade's worth. By which time the second hand van would probably need replacing anyway.
This is the angle that's always put me off... (that and the good lady isn't really one for campsites anyway)
doris5000quite. You could do a couple of nights in a hotel every month for the next 45 years before you'd spent as much as new T6. Assuming you didn't have to tax or insure the T6, that is...
Yeah but you can't lower a hotel, put a vinyl wrap and some big wheels on it and then use it to aggressively tailgate people at 60mph on the way up to Fortwilliam for that one trip of the year you actually use the thing.
We've just got back from 3 nights away in our T5.1.
It was comfy, we sat outside during the day and the evenings and slept up top.
£15 a night with hook-up and showers etc - the place was rammed with Brits/ French/ Germans/ Italians/ Dutch etc etc.
But.... It's got 20" rims, blacked out windows - no LED lights though but it does have a DAB radio.
JimJam:
Yeah but you can't lower a hotel, put a vinyl wrap and some big wheels on it and then use it to aggressively tailgate people at 60mph on the way up to Fortwilliam for that one trip of the year you actually use the thing.
Nope - it was a white vw polo that was doing the tailgating this year - having tired of only being able to see the roof of the vehicle following me from FW to Glencoe (c) I let her past so she could sit on the back bumper of the rented focus that put his brakes on randomly. Was hoping for a self fulfilling prophecy, or that unmarked bmw that was running up and down the road on Friday to appear, but no such luck..
Yeah but you can't lower a hotel, put a vinyl wrap and some big wheels on it
If you're David Coulthard you can give it a bloody good try.......
[img] 
[/img]
I don't think there's any "hate" for the VW T series on here, were just observing the owners and thier false superiority complex.
Plenty of better vehicles that cover the needs of the "lifestyle" yet the blinkered VW passionistas bore the pants off you by both hopping out of one and walking off like they've just had a child's accident in their pants, and cruising up to the beach parking it at 37degrees to the parking bay whilst sneering and then hopping out and wiping down the dust off the blacked out bonnet.
And .. when your done with those Audi TT wheels you've retro fitted, give em back to the bloke they belong to..
Up and over rear door or twin rear doors ??
I don't think there's any "hate" for the VW T series on here, were just observing the owners and thier false superiority complex.
Given the tone of the OP, there is plenty of hate, most of it motivated by frustration and acute inferiority complex.
How else could you explain why people worry about the cars that OTHER people choose and make ridiculous assumption and sweeping generalisations about people they don't know?
[quote=bikebouy ]I don't think there's any "hate" for the VW T series [b][i]hate hate hate[/i][/b]
fixed it for you 😉
maybe its SE thing..
How else could you explain why people worry about the cars that OTHER people choose and make ridiculous assumption and sweeping generalisations about people they don't know?
Are you new here?
Anyway..... I think you, and quite a few others, are being overly defensive. I is not hatin'. I is simply mystified as to why you'd spend this frankly enormous sum of money to sleep in the back of a van in a field! Thats all. When, as has been pointed out by plenty on here, the same sum of money opens up a whole world of non-field related destinations, and none-back-of-a-van luxury accommodation.
The only difference I can see to Guy Martin sleeping in his transit with his bikes, and the whole VW camper experience is 50 grand.
It genuinely mystifies me. I hadn't realised, as I'd never taken any notice, how ludicrously priced they are. And after reading all the replies, I'm still as mystified. I still can't see any reason you would, other than you've been seduced by a Times Sunday Supplement, or you're a masochist? There's no other logical explanation
I still can't see any reason you would, other than you've been seduced by a Times Sunday Supplement, or you're a masochist? There's no other logical explanation
if I was completely wadded, I'd still have one. I'd also have a drive to park it on etc etc.
they look fun, and if you can afford to lob five-figure lumps of cash at fun things to do on the weekend, why not?
I think it's just one of those things where, now and again, you see a large evidence of wealth - like when you walk past a marina with loads of nice boats in it - and go, bloody hell, I never realized there were that many people with that much money knocking about...
True. Boats (and their associated costs) are another money-pit I find totally incomprehensable
binners, it's just a case of whatever floats your boat. If someone wants to spank an unholy amount of money on a fun size motorhome, it is their prerogative.
Personally, I'm down with the car and B&B route, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone their giggles in a VW California.
don't go harbouring any grudges now
Folk always quote the 50k cost, in reality you can get a very decent example for 20k, easily.
As I said on the 9k bike thread, not uncommon for folk to spunk 400 a month on a PCP Beemer, 150 a month on sky.
There's yer fun bus costs covered.
F'o balance..
[img] 
[/img]
oh now mrmonkfinger has edited his post and I just look like I'm posting a random non-sequitur 😆
What do you have against broadsheet Sunday supplements?
[i]Folk always quote the 50k cost, in reality you can get a very decent example for 20k, easily.[/i]
thing is the only reason the £20k ones are about is because someone else has spent £50k?
[s] someone else has spent £50k?[/s] £3000 per year for 3 years.
Is there wisdom in that? Not to my thinking, but others' mileage must vary, obvs.
And it keeps the market afloat with a good variety of used vehicles to buy at something more like a realistic price.
Those prices of new cars are driven by the demand for financial products, not automotive ones.
The thread has taken the direction towards the conclusions that "Lifestyle" vehicles are highly expensive; rarely used to their potential and, so; a bit of a waste of money.
However, I think we've also established that these conclusions apply to almost any other sorts of vehicle, where there is a mismatch between user need and the vehicle they actually have. The Grand Tourer used for going to Sainsburys; the sports car; the 4x4 etc etc.
I spent 10 years saying many of the same things above about B&Bs, camping with a tent and an estate car and hiring campervans - to my wife, who always wanted one. Indeed, we did hire them and do all those other things. I could certainly see the appeal, but didn't want to own one and only saw the massive cost in the context of, perhaps, 10 nights a year camping in one.
Then, I changed my mind - and we bought one last year.
I don't think there one single thing that made me change my mind, but I've definitely come to think of our van as just another alternative to a moderately expensive new estate car. It would be really easy to see me in a new Volvo at the same price as our T5. (I used to have a V60).
The estate would drive better and be more luxurious. On the other hand, it would miss out on utility - carrying capacity, standing area, fridge / sink / cooking, tables etc. Both the van and estate would cost a similar amount to buy and run; both would be perfectly fine for day-to-day use; [i]both would be all-round family vehicles[/i].
The point is that some people do see these choices as comparable alternatives, at comparable price points.
This doesn't work at all price levels, but people don't typically compare a £500 estate car with a £60k California - many will look and compare at a similar price point.
I run a van dispite no longer needing it for work. A big advantage for me over a estate car and bike rack is security. If I am camping I don't want to go out for the day and leave bikes in a tent. I also don't want them on the back of a car. I don't have any stickers suggesting my vamnis anything other than a avan though.
Then add in the benefits of carrying large or dirty items without worrying about damaging a car interior and it make sense.
A moderately expensive estate won't cost what a VW California does though, unless your definition is an RS6 !
I priced up a new petrol VW Cali Beach - £62k, an Ocean was getting towards £67k. Even with a decent discount that's nuts. Yes they have high residuals (I sold mine for my purchase price+ with 2yrs/15000 miles) but having had 2 i'd not own another.
Each to their own but there seems to be a lot more being bought and put on the road so there is money somewhere.
My lifestyle must be cheap I gave under 6k for my vw t4
Still worth 6k now.
I'd not be without it.
My Cali Beach cost £31.5k as a six month old, 60 miles, ex-demo in 2013. Certainly not cheap but not sure how much German estate car I'd get for that. Even though it doesn't get used loads to camp in and when we do it's weekends (cos we have kids) it's my regular motor (though not a car commuter) so I don't resent its presence and cost when not camping.
Unsure what might replace it though.
Anyway..... I think you, and quite a few others, are being overly defensive. I is not hatin'. I is simply mystified as to why you'd spend this frankly enormous sum of money to sleep in the back of a van in a field! Thats all. When, as has been pointed out by plenty on here, the same sum of money opens up a whole world of non-field related destinations, and none-back-of-a-van luxury accommodation.The only difference I can see to Guy Martin sleeping in his transit with his bikes, and the whole VW camper experience is 50 grand.
It genuinely mystifies me. I hadn't realised, as I'd never taken any notice, how ludicrously priced they are. And after reading all the replies, I'm still as mystified. I still can't see any reason you would, other than you've been seduced by a Times Sunday Supplement, or you're a masochist? There's no other logical explanation
It really is simple :
- "Expensive" is subjective. Might be very cheap for someone. And they may ALSO be able to afford expensive hotel AND they might not even read Sunday newspapers.
- They're NOT that expensive anyway. Looking at the window price of a top of the range model with loads of option doesn't correspond to the deals offered by brokers. And then look at how low the depreciation is.
- The newspaper reference thing is bizarre. It says more about you than T5 buyers.
A few friends have one and they bought them on functional / value grounds for their needs, they don't give a toss about the image/lifestyle thing and don't care if some weirdos in the street is puzzled or insecure.
But the bottom line is, everyone is different. Live with it.
Are you new here ? 😉
duncancallum - MemberMy lifestyle must be cheap I gave under 6k for my vw t4
To be fair Dunc, the inside of your T4 usually resembles an explosion in a camping shop, and in no way could be refereed too as a 'lifestyle' vehicle. Unless your 'lifestyle' was setting off explosions in camping shops.
Dorset_Knob - MemberWhat do you have against broadsheet Sunday supplements?
Hmmmmmmmm...... where to start......? They're sort of a microcosm of our advanced capitalist consumer society aren't they, I suppose? But taken to the nth degree, as they disappear up their own arse? I don't really think I need to expand too much on that, do I?
I get the Observer every Sunday, and read the main section, but I've learnt not to even glance at the supplement as its full of 200 quid iPhone covers, wooly jumpers that cost a grand, Road tests on Audi's, recipes involving ingredients I've never heard of and more pointless middle class affectations than you can shake a Moschino stick at.
If everyone in the country read the Times Sunday supplement on one given weekend, you'd have a revolution on your hands within minutes
If someone can post up a picture of a T6 with blacked out windows, sidebar thingies and big alloys, towing a powerboat on a trailer, I reckon we could hit peak inverted-snobbery sneer
Come on you lot. Sort it out 😀
I can find a T'Something towing a something odd, towing a car on a trailer .. but no powerboats on the back of T'Somethings..
Innit.
[img] 
[/img]
^^^ Looks like something my 8 year old drives in Forza Horizon
Hmmmmmmmm...... where to start......? They're sort of a microcosm of our advanced capitalist consumer society aren't they, I suppose? But taken to the nth degree, as they disappear up their own arse? I don't really think I need to expand too much on that, do I?I get the Observer every Sunday, and read the main section, but I've learnt not to even glance at the supplement as its full of 200 quid iPhone covers, wooly jumpers that cost a grand, Road tests on Audi's, recipes involving ingredients I've never heard of and more pointless middle class affectations than you can shake a Moschino stick at.
If everyone in the country read the Times Sunday supplement on one given weekend, you'd have a revolution on your hands within minutes
I am starting to understand your views now !
Approves 😀
[img] 
[/img]
Fownd wun..
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR43Xg2aBm2n7A8SsEgpTj_avaJVd6ty6PFkETcJ87PqVMCx0Bs [/img]
How else could you explain why people worry about the cars that OTHER people choose and make ridiculous assumption and sweeping generalisations about people they don't know?
[img] 
[/img]
Hmmmmmmmm...... where to start......? They're sort of a microcosm of our advanced capitalist consumer society aren't they, I suppose? But taken to the nth degree, as they disappear up their own arse?
I had a capitalist consumer society campervan once.
Had to sell it.
Bloke next door bought a Winnebago.
perchypanther - Member
Hmmmmmmmm...... where to start......? They're sort of a microcosm of our advanced capitalist consumer society aren't they, I suppose? But taken to the nth degree, as they disappear up their own arse?
I had a capitalist consumer society campervan once.Had to sell it.
Bloke next door bought a Whineybago.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
FIFY
I'm sure that's what you meant
Nah it was intended to be a scathing pastiche of modern consumerism.
I meant Audi Q7.
I is simply mystified as to why you'd spend this frankly enormous sum of money to sleep in the back of a van in a field! Thats all. When, as has been pointed out by plenty on here, the same sum of money opens up a whole world of non-field related destinations, and none-back-of-a-van luxury accommodation.
I'm going to break with tradition and answer the question - I didn't spend an enormous amount (2K plus a lifetime of skipped services) and I like sleeping in fields 🙂
Non field related destinations are also partaken of. Just without the kids!
I is simply mystified as to why you'd spend this frankly enormous sum of money to sleep in the back of a van in a field! Thats all. When, as has been pointed out by plenty on here, the same sum of money opens up a whole world of non-field related destinations, and none-back-of-a-van luxury accommodation.
You keep banging on about these enormous sums of money, but how many people really pay that? How many on here have been posting threads on converting fairly cheap vans? The whole point of having a van conversion, which has been reiterated time and time again, is flexibility, the ability to just bugger off somewhere when an opportunity presents itself, without having to scour the interwebz for a B&B that's handy, and isn't going to cost £70-80/night, and to take a chance on a little pitch that you see in passing for a night, just in case, and move on if it isn't, or stay for a few nights if it is.
B&B is fine, but often there are restrictions on returning during the day if the weather turns to shit, whereas with a van, especially if you have a largish tent or awning for longer stays you can just doss around reading, listening to music and making endless brews.
I've stayed in a lovely B&B, in the pub where I eat and drink in the evenings where I camped last year; the rooms are beautiful but I really can't justify £65/night, possibly even more now.
Well, I've just checked the Cricket in Beesands, and they're fully booked at the moment, but I found a place eight miles away in Dartmouth, and for nine nights like I did last time, it would cost me £1145, compared to the £90 I actually paid to stay in a field!
Ok, the breakfast that's included might be a bit better, but as I never have more than a bowl of cornflakes and maybe a couple of slices of toast, which I can do myself, the £1045 I save will more than cover the £40 I spend on a fabulous meal and a couple of pints in the pub.
Obviously, someone as loaded as you are binners wouldn't bat an eyelid at that; I, on the other hand, have to watch what I spend to get real value for money.
We had a T5 before we got our caravan.
We spent the amount of money they cost (12k for the T5, 23k fur the current caravan) because we can afford to. I'm sure that's why other people buy their van or what's of choice too. I'm sorry if you're too poor to be able to do that & as a result are resentful but maybe if you worked harder you'd be able to afford one too?
I think there are two points being mixed up here
1) people not understanding why you would want a camper van
2) people not understanding why some folk are prepared to pay a huge premium for a VW.
1) I love campers - but if they don't suit you fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages
2) I have no understanding. Even a VW does not drive as nicely as a car and for the same money as a top VW you can buy a much better equipped more flexible camper that is far better to live out of
You missed
3: some people can and will spend more than you think is necessary*
*See houses, bikes, cars, stereos, climbing gear, holidays, phones etc etc etc.
I was just going to come back in with that - I suppose its like buying a Chelsea tractor that has a uselessly small boot in a huge car. I don't understand that either,
Its not like say a luxury watch that does the same job as a cheapo one but in the VWs case you can get a "better" van for less ( assuming better means actually better for camping in)
My mate bought one to go dogging - I always assumed that was the rule after that. Bit of an anticlimax now....
but in the VWs case you can get a "better" van for less ( assuming better means actually better for camping in)
In your opinion, which is fine. But plenty of people disagree. Which is also fine.
My T5 is from the school of camping shop explosion up there. Plus sticks, can someone tell me why my five year old son has a massive and growing collection of sticks mostly stored in the back of my van.
[quote=jam bo ]can someone tell me why my five year old son has a massive and growing collection of sticks mostly stored in the back of my van.
He's saving up for a woodburner to go with your T5?
NZCol - Member
A moderately expensive estate won't cost what a VW California does though, unless your definition is an RS6 !
I priced up a new petrol VW Cali Beach - £62k, an Ocean was getting towards £67k. Even with a decent discount that's nuts.
You're making exactly my point.
Some posters are incorrectly making out that T5/6 are massively more expensive than cars. It's possible to spend the above on a top end California, but most are a lot less.
Our camper conversion cost less than half of a top-end California. I stand by what I said: it was roughly the same price as a decent new estate. 😉
If I had the money I would have a camper - but I would need to be able to stand up in it, keep my bikes in it and have a permanent full size bed in it. I have hired one that met that description even to having a boot that the tandem would go in. I totally get campers. I totally get that their are compromises to be made and a smaller vehicle would suit some. I have also hired VW sized ones and ones inbetween What I don't understand is paying the premium for the VW name. The VW sized one I had was a lovely conversion on a jap people carrier. Significantly cheaper to buy or hire
Edit - actually I do have the money easily to buy one - right now Its cheaper for me to hire one for the week or two every year or two I want one
He's saving up for a woodburner to go with your T5?
Sold my five to pay for that 😉
If I had the money I would have a camper - but I would need to be able to stand up in it, keep my bikes in it and have a permanent full size bed in it. I have hired one that met that description even to having a boot that the tandem would go in. I totally get campers. I totally get that their are compromises to be made and a smaller vehicle would suit some. I have also hired VW sized ones and ones inbetween What I don't understand is paying the premium for the VW name. The VW sized one I had was a lovely conversion on a jap people carrier. Significantly cheaper to buy or hire
Now you are just repeating yourself. We get it. You wouldn't buy one.
jambo - then help me understand what is the advantage to the VW over one based on a similar sized vehicle such as a jap people carrier? ( toyota granvia for example)
why? You aren't going to buy one anyway 😉
'cos I hate not understanding things?
*rocks quietly in the corner*
Lol @ Jam bo
*sobs*
Why buy a boutique mtb brand, rather than, say a Canyon? Why spend £20 million on a Rembrandt when you could buy a picture that is almost as good by one of his pupils.
People like to buy 'premium' brands. You don't have to.
I buy Kellogg's cornflakes to eat in my T5. They taste better than they would in a Nissan.
I'm slightly sentimental about the old T2 I grew up with. I think it my parents not allowing my first girl friend to "stay over" but it WAS OK to borrow the VW Schagin'Wagin for the weekend away.... 😀
Most of the people I know with T5's spend most of their free time getting them repaired. 'DPF Valves' come up in conversation quite a lot, so does oil consumption.
I wouldn't say no to a T5 though! Or maybe a Transit Custom, quite like the look of those.
Now jambo I don't believe you - surely it should be waitrose super duper cornflakes
I’m on my second T5 nether were brought brand new, just a few months old. Current one as the last one is a work horse (with a half decent spec) to me. But having a van is so bloody handy for transporting Mtb’s and boards. I’m not keen on the fact that they are considered a ‘lifestyle vehicle’ now and it makes me cringe when I get waved at by another T5 owner.
Dorset_Knob - Member
What do you have against broadsheet Sunday supplements?Hmmmmmmmm...... where to start......? They're sort of a microcosm of our advanced capitalist consumer society aren't they, I suppose? But taken to the nth degree, as they disappear up their own arse? I don't really think I need to expand too much on that, do I?
I get the Observer every Sunday, and read the main section, but I've learnt not to even glance at the supplement as its full of 200 quid iPhone covers, wooly jumpers that cost a grand, Road tests on Audi's, recipes involving ingredients I've never heard of and more pointless middle class affectations than you can shake a Moschino stick at.
If everyone in the country read the Times Sunday supplement on one given weekend, you'd have a revolution on your hands within minutes
Oh - good answer.
Not completey sure I understand it, fully.
I think what you're voicing is a frustration with the idea that everything must always have a newer, more obscure, more fashionable and, ultimately, more expensive, alternative, to which the media tells us we must aspire? That the media is the machine of a capitalist organ gone mad?
I think I might feel like I tend to agree.
Part of the problem is the system of money - for any given pound they have, banks lend about 5 pound (let's say). That means there is a constant push for 'growth', to make up the interest. Why is 'economic growth' better than 'economic staying put', given the pressures that growth puts on people, and the environment?
It's all about interest, at the end of the day. If banks could lend only 99 pence out of every £1 they had, this pressure would go away.
But, these people know what they're talking about, whereas I am just an internet idiot in keyboard mode avoiding the day's work. Have a read, you might like it: [url= http://positivemoney.org/our-proposals/ ]Positive Money[/url]
Sorry, but that is NOT how banks work. They do not lend out money they receive. They create money first and then this becomes a deposit, not the other way around.
But don't worry, Central Banks only started admitting this about 3-5 years ago. They and textbooks got it wrong for decades!
So there is a magic money tree then? But you can only access it to spend the money [url= https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-pick-of-the-breaks-to-book-now-82bzwqdkv ]wisely[/url] 😆
@Dorset that Positive Money stuff is the biggest load of bollix
So the camper van is merely an instrument of the consumerist, capitalist state and a tool of big capital? Without them our society would simply collapse. Who knew.
So there is a magic money tree then?
There absolutely is a magic money tree. Its called Quantitative Easing, its given a boring technical name to try and obscure what it is - printing money.
The best part of half a trillion pounds of QE has been created since 2008.
All this magic money is only a problem when we want to spend it on things other than banks though.
EDIT
None of that has much to do with T5's though. To be fair I was just hoping this was a thread slagging off SUVs
I've been doing some "pie in the sky" looking into camper vans*. I was really surprised that the purchase cost of VW T5/T6 camper is a similar amount to a much larger and better equipped motorhome. Granted both have their various advantages/disadvantages, but I'd assumed the VW would be a cheaper option.
Also, I'm not convinced by the seat/bed then units along the side layout. At least not for anyone who pursues the lifestyle these vans are associated with/marketed with. With that layout, any gear (bikes, boards, etc.) has go outside of the van... sort of voiding the reason for having a van in the first place, i.e to carry stuff [u]in[/u]
I still want one though but with a better layout or at least a sliding "Variotech" type seat. It wouldn't need to be VW either. I like the simplicity of the Amdro Kombi jump
[img] 
[/img]
For mega bucks, there's also the HymerCar Cape Town that deviates from the "traditional" layout:
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
*Pie in the sky due to lack of funds
Agree. With my recent (Trafic) conversion I still have the full length of the van, from passenger seat to rear door, to carry a bike or two. It still means they have to be left outside when the van is being used for camping though. To get away from that requires a bigger vehicle which introduces it's own issues.Also, I'm not convinced by the seat/bed then units along the side layout. At least not for anyone who pursues the lifestyle these vans are associated with/marketed with. With that layout, any gear (bikes, boards, etc.) has go outside of the van.
Yup, every camper is a compromise, it's whatever suits your needs tbh. My current camper of choice, big enough to sleep in, on a full size single mattress, and bike fits inside too! 
[img] 
[/img]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nobeerinthefridge/36409232995/ ]Ard rock[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/59995395@N03/ ][/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
@Dorset that Positive Money stuff is the biggest load of bollix
Oh, OK then.