[Closed] Life is hard living on £120k a year.

We-ell... It is very much a first world problem, but playing devil's advocate, if your mortage sucks up 80% of your salary each month, it doesn't leave you feeling very well off...

WTF! How can anyone possibly be stretched on £120k a year?

paying £45k pa after tax for school fees will suck up a fair amount

That takes the piss

he is paying fees for his sons schools so i suspect much of what is quoted is probably true. Also, he's paying almost 45% tax on that 120k due to loss of personal allowance.

But lets not let facts get in the way of a good troll......

It's the eye-watering school fees wot done it.

If only there was an alternative state funded education system......

Friends of mine earn around that a year - having a £600k mortgage doesn't leave them a huge amount of spare change. Don't forget the higher rate tax that kicks in on 2/3 of that salary.

We earn about a quarter of that - our teeny mortgage gets paid off this year. You make choices throughout life, some work out, some bite you on the bum.

Not attempting to justify the whining in the paper though, but if your expenditure is greater than your income, doesn't matter how much you earn, you feel the squeeze.

the guys obviously an idiot, was he educated at boarding school as well?

and the entire article is stupid, relying on the trickle down effect to help the poorest- its amazing some people still spout that!

But lets not let facts get in the way of a good troll......

Good point.

So let's start with whether you're aware that there are plenty of people on a hell of lot less than that who manage to bring up children who turn out ok.....

but if your expenditure is greater than your income

you're an idiot....

You would be surprised how little disposible income you have once you have established a lifestyle like that.

he is paying fees for his sons schools so i suspect much of what is quoted is probably true.

Sorry I missed the bit where it says expensive private schools are an essential of life for anyone aspiring to be middle class.

Most folk, for better or worse, live a standard of living that they can afford. If their income suddenly drops or changes for the worse of course they'll be 'hard up' if they don't change their life style.

But the trickle-down economics central to wealth creation is only effective if benefits accrue to every stratum of society. And the more the finances of people like Jackson are constricted, the less they spend on goods and services. The less they spend, the more providers of goods and services will suffer.

What a load of cobblers, the real issue is that they're spending too much, mainly on education, not that they've had to stop going to Pizza Express!

How can anyone possibly be stretched on £120k a year?

School fees.

Once you accept that your children [i]cannot possibly[/i] go to a 'normal' school with the losers' kids, you are committed to spending more than many people earn just on sending them to school every year.

MrsDummy has already started to fret about the costs of educating our un-conceived progeny. I've explained that with my excellent genes they'll survive in conventional education and once they're 16 they can go to the army to learn a trade. 🙂

expensive private schools are an essential of life

This goes back to the other thread about what people view as most important to them.

This family obviously are putting their childrens education ahead of fancy dinners, flash cars and other luxuries.

A lesson many others should learn.

I've heard it rumoured that there are options available where you don't actually have to pay for schooling.

Its all a bit socialist. The state provide it, and its paid for through taxation. Pretty revolutionary stuff.

Isn't the point of paying an enormous mortgage so that you get to live in the catchment area of a decent school? I thought thats what the system was designed to create?

So the story is, chap earns money and spends it on things he deems important and doesn't have enough to spend on everything he would like to.

lack of disposal income does not make you poor, not being able to afford the things they pay for, 50 K + fees fro schooling for example, makes you poor.

Clearly what your expenses are will have some bearing on how wealthy you feel but not enough to outweigh the points above

hmmm, thinking about this, i think he is not being entirely transparent, after tax, he is probably bringing home a net of £70k, after school fees that leaves him with £25k to service a mortgage of £350k on interest only which will be circa £1300 pcm, so thats circa 15k. Leaving him with 10k for the year.

Me thinks he gets a tidy bonus to top things up.....

Broadly:

Education = investment
Flash car/restaurant = consumption

Which is better?

(Great topic for many pages though!!)

Why would anyone want to be the subject of that kind of article? They should have volunteered for Gogglebox instead!

For Farnham, £350K isn't a huge mortgage 🙂

I've heard it rumoured that there are options available where you don't actually have to pay for schooling.

Psst, don't tell anyone but I was sent to just such a socialist institution. I've never forgiven my parents mind....

You would be surprised how little disposible income you have once you have established a lifestyle like that.

That is entirely their own choice though. It [i]was[/i] disposable income, and they decided to use it. Be it for a ridiculous mortgage, car, or whatever else. The only 'squeeze' is of their own making. Which I believe is the point here.

Meanwhile, back on Earth...

LHS - Member
You would be surprised how little disposible income you have once you have established a lifestyle like that.

Not hard to change lifestyle.

I used to go to Costa everyday and do my food shopping in M&S, now I have less cash and spend about £5 on food a day. I'm still far better off than many people in this country never mind the world.

Education = investment

But is paying for an expensive (private) eduction a better investment that getting a free state one and saving the fees?

That should be for individuals to decide - its not a question that lends itself to a yes/no answer. Horses for courses and all that.

Discovering the joys of Aldi has been a positive of this downturn IMO! The wine is surprisingly good.

WTF! How can anyone possibly be stretched on £120k a year?

I am guessing 120k before tax, he has a 350K Mortgage and pays 50K to send his children to School.

I am surprised they have got any money left to buy food.

However much you are paid, if you are living beyond your means, you are living beyond your means, It looks like that is what they are doing.

private education - sadly having had kids fall into the just failing the 12+ trap & also seeing the fallout from another breezing it & then feeling totally at sea in a school of wealthier middle class kids I can see why people opt to pay for what they want or even see as necessary rather than accepting what the local authority is able to provide.

Isn't the point of paying an enormous mortgage so that you get to live in the catchment area of a decent school?

You'd think if he was so annoyed at paying all that tax that he would try to get the most value from it. Short of being involved in a horrific car crash or getting a life-threatening illness, sending your kids to state schools is probably the best way of doing that. For someone who works in the finance sector he seems to have little idea of how to best manage his own finances.

If he lived in a 2 bed terrace he'd have plenty of dosh to spare. 😀
Does going to McD's count as 'eating out'?

What pisses me off is in some social circles everyone sends their kids to private education. Its ridiculous. Alot of pressure- numb nutted-idiots.

For Farnham, £350K isn't a huge mortgage

The article says £120k basic, no mention of bonuses etc - he's a financial compliance officer in the City for gawds sake, his bonus probably doubles his salary.

And apparently he's at the top end of the squeezed middle! If ever I needed confirmation of my working class status.....

Picking up on the opening sentence, when did £120k represent the 'squeezed middle'? 😯

These people live on a different ****ing planet!!!!

I really don't see what the problem is.

There are plenty of people earning £25k a year who deem it absolutly necessary to get all sorts of loans and store credit to buy new cars, TVs and other status items.

Investing in his kids education should be applauded.

you don't actually have to pay for schooling.

Then...

its paid for through taxation

It's all relative.

Imagine trying to downsize to a council flat on £60 a week. That would feel about the same for most of the contributors on here.

Unless of course, you just like to feel jealous of those with more money than you and relish the opportunity to crow about their misfortunes.

For someone who works in the finance sector he seems to have little idea of how to best manage his own finances.

Well he'll fit in perfectly then!

There are plenty of people earning £25k a year who deem it absolutly necessary to get all sorts of loans and store credit to buy new cars, TVs and other status items.

Why work hard effectively as a slave when your children may come out with an average life at the end of it?

I knew a lad who was put through the best schools by his leading heart surgeon Dad. Boy he was a bloody waste of money at the end of it. I think he went to work in a shop.

Unless of course, you just like to feel jealous of those with more money than you and relish the opportunity to crow about their misfortunes.

Not at all, just incredulous that someone is written up as a sob story when he is only a victim of the (seemingly daft) financial decisions he has made....

There are plenty of people earning £25k a year who deem it absolutly necessary to get all sorts of loans and store credit to buy new cars, TVs and other status items.

Investing in his kids education should be applauded.

Fine… you're spending your money to give your kids an advantage enjoyed by a tiny minority of the countries population, that will enhance their life chances hugely disproportionally.

Good for you! But when your in a position to do that, the 98% of the population who can't afford that, really really don't want to hear you whining about it!!! 🙄

swapping Ocado deliveries for trips to Tesco

*phew* for a minute I thought he was going to say Asda. Life ain't so bad after all

some people always see the negative rather than the 'look how lucky we are' side

that household isn't the squeezed middle though - wife, 2 kids and a very good salary - their household income is better than 90% of other households in the UK

Read what you want to read, ignore what you want to ignore. Simple.

Nice Contura 850 in the background.

That guy in the Telegraph article has created his own problems, the crazy school fees being the biggest contributor.
A £350K mortgage is a monster as well, however reading between the lines, I reckon he has an interest only one, and he needs to start attacking the lump sum at some point.

However I can understand the pressure to conform to an ideal, and him feeling that private schooling is the only option etc.

We took the decision to move to a nice area (Farnborough Village, Orpington) when our first child was coming up to school age, we lived in a horrific part of Gravesend, and there was no way she was going to school over there.

we weighed up the options, and decided that by moving somewhere nice, rather than paying school fees, we would all benefit.
We've got a big mortgage(£240k)but we've developed the house and added lots of money to it, but have decided that if our circumstances change, the house will have to go.

I've got no aspirations to jump any further up the property ladder, and feel we are doing the right thing for our kids - their school is excellent, and we've got good options for secondary schools when the time comes.

each to their own eh...?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/04/abuse-britain-private-schools-personal-memoir

"The past few years, since the 2008 credit crisis, have been extremely difficult and the squeezed middle have certainly suffered, along with others – the younger generation, in particular,” is the verdict of Nutmeg chief executive and co-founder, Nick Hungerford.

Linkedin suggests the case study works for this guy too. Lazy journalism?

Mebbe his missus should get a job?

written up as a sob story

Didn't strike me as that. He seemed pretty matter-of-fact about it, even mentioning that he could well imagine what people (ie: you lot) on lower incomes might think of it.

Of course, there IS an election coming up. Seems strange that, with the economy improving so well, the right-wing press should be promoting the idea that we're still all in (this suffering) together. The current leadership are keen to push the idea that things are getting better.

Ah - The Telegraph. I think perhaps the knives are out for CallMeDave.

[quote=thestabiliser said]Mebbe his missus should get a job?

Probably too many coffee mornings and shopping trips with the girls to attend.

righog - Member

WTF! How can anyone possibly be stretched on £120k a year?

Easy, coke/hookers combination must eat up.. ooohhh 80% easily. . . 😆

Read what you want to read, ignore what you want to ignore. Simple.

[img] [/img]

😆

Of course, there IS an election coming up. Seems strange that, with [s]the economy improving so well,[/s] [i]a housing bubble being inflated, and wrapped up as a recovery [/i]the right-wing press should be promoting the idea that we're still all in (this suffering) together. The current leadership are keen to push the idea that things are getting better.

FTFY Wopster 😉

My brother was on £110k plus a bonus and was unable to get a loan for a car. Our mother took a loan out for him and he missed the payments regularly. He blames having 3 kids for having no money. They don`t go to a posh school and our mother has done free childcare for years. Some people just cant help spending money.

MrsDummy has already started to fret about the costs of educating our un-conceived progeny. I've explained that with my excellent genes they'll survive in conventional education and once they're 16 they can go to the army to learn a trade.

Other than the unconceived (and possibly Army, depending on her ability to grow wings or gills) bit, pretty much the decision we've taken with Lil Miss North.

We've effectively gambled on her surviving the spartan reality of a state education in The North(tm).

Easy, coke/hookers combination must eat up.. ooohhh 80% easily. .

You see, that I could understand....

Yet another non-story of "I earn considerably more than you but haven't a pot to piss in".

His choice what he spends his money on, just stop pretending you're struggling. My heart bleeds for him. It really does. 🙄

We've effectively gambled on her surviving the spartan reality of a state education in The North(tm).

Worrying isn't it. My 9 and 6 year old daughters are currently barely surviving their state education, despite the fact that they have learnt stuff that I couldn't have imagined as a 9 or 7 year old, the fact that they're in an incredibly supportive environment, with good friends and brilliant teachers. Still, I hope the gamble pays off. If they turn into benefits scrounging smackheads I'll only have myself to blame.

Is it someone off here?

Is it someone off here?

No mention of his bike collection, rad skills, or world class driving ability; so probably not.

I know if I were to have a conversation with someone on a council estate, they would think I was mad,” says Jackson, wryly.

Or STW. Much the same thing really.

Here's an interesting angle for you to consider.

A family of four where both parents work and generate a joint income of £100k from two equal salaries.

From experience close to this, I can tell you that the way you make this work when you don't have close family support, is that you really need a nanny. Not true in all cases I grant you, but true in ours for sure.

The nanny is amazing and is an employee and worth every penny. The cost is £2100 a month, which is about £500 more than our mortgage.

What is the point of my post?

It's not that there is not a lot left, it's that if both parents want to work and have a career and have kids, there is a massive cost to that and you can end up trying very hard just to make ends meet.

£ 73k take home out of £120k salary is still eye watering, £ 68k take home if he pays into a pension @ 10%. That's a lot gone before you start spending. May still leave a lot left over in many people's eyes but that's a lot to lose. Worst still when you think a couple each earning £60 would bring home £9k more than him.

Ah but then he can't have earned that can he, he's not really worth that £120k salary, and anyway he can afford to pay all that tax, he shouldn't have anything to moan about. In fact he should be a happy bunny he's allowed to help so many others so much worse off than he is.

For balance when the 40% tax rate was introduced the equivalent earnings threshold was around £72k, it's now £41.5K. That's a lot more people on ordinary incomes paying 40%, but then they can't deserve it either and don't need all that extra money.

Some people just cant help spending money

Well, most of them can but choose not to. There's a big difference between being poor and choosing not to have much disposable income.

What percentile of national household incomes does £120k fall into? Nowhere near the middle, squeezed or otherwise, I think.

Clearly he's an idoit ... school fees 🙄

He should have got himself down the local/not so local church and got his dust bin lids in the many excellent CoE schools that are available.

Plus you get a soul cleanse thrown in free once every couple of weeks... meaning all that money you've saved can be spent of stupid stuff like MTBs guilt free

Win Win

What percentile of national household incomes does £120k fall into? Nowhere near the middle, squeezed or otherwise, I think.

Between 95% and 99% percentile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom#Percentile_points_for_income_of_individuals_before_tax

What percentile of national household incomes does £120k fall into?

1%tile

What percentile of national household incomes does £120k fall into? Nowhere near the middle, squeezed or otherwise, I think.

Depends on how you're measuring it. It's more likely to be the median than the mean but it's still unlikely to be either.

The mean salary in the UK is something like £25k and if you're earning more than £45k then you're in the top 10% of salaried earners (this specifically excludes those whose salaries are paid by bonuses or dividends).

I have a feeling that the mean household income in the UK is in the region of £40k so yes, at £120k, you're a long way out from that.

EDIT: wasn't going to be hard to answer that question really was it!

The article says £120k basic, no mention of bonuses etc - he's a financial compliance officer in the City for gawds sake, his bonus probably doubles his salary.

he won't have that kind of bonus with that job, it's only the investment deal makers that get the ridiculous bens - he will get a salary reference increase and bonus based on the PLC return and his performance assessment

regardless, I have no sympathy for him

didn't read the article but if that 45k is paying for fees to salesian college (the local private) he's a 'king idiot because it's no better than the state schools (that kind of dosh must be the fee for Winchester surely??)

FWIW, the £120k guy is an idiot if he is really claiming he's squeezed other than through choice (though, it's quite likely that's just how the article is written given that it makes some other pretty stupid points about trickle down)

£45k was for Wandsworth something school - wherever Johnny Wilco went.

May still leave a lot left over in many people's eyes but that's a lot to lose.

But it's not lost, it's tax, it gets spent on things that everyone benefits from (in theory, if you ignore pointless wars etc...), and on the whole it's a very good deal. Why do people regard the proportion going to tax as their money? Apart from a few ultra-rich people who can/are allowed to fiddle the system, that money never was theirs and never will be, it will always be paid as tax.

Not wishing to provoke anything, but surely if you're earning a basic salary of £120k pa then a mortgage of £350k is hardly monstrous. Even in the good old days, 3.5 x salary was the sensible calculator you looked at, so with a salary like that, his mortgage is fine. His decision to have children however, is seriously flawed 🙂

But it's not lost, it's tax, it gets spent on things that everyone benefits from

Like free state education.....

I had a big mortgage. Worked every hour to pay for it. I got sick so couldn't work. I sold the house and managed to settle the balance, buy a house in Snowdonia and a small place in vienna mortgage free.
If you're struggling, look at your finances. So many bury their heads and hope the problem goes away.
£120k guy needs to send the kids to Grange Hill, move and drive a Dacia.

... so if a household in the top few % of incomes can't afford the comfortable life they want then there is something fundamentally wrong. In the specific case it may well be over-inflated property market related.

Perhaps a variation of Ricardo's theory on wages tending to subsistence levels in free markets - whereby property prices are so inflated in some areas that people sacrifice other aspects of a comfortable lifestyle to buy a nice house.

It sounded like he's got a £350k mortgage on interest only (given that he mentioned he needed to start paying it back at some point).

Decision to have kids, fine. Decision to send them to private school that he can't really afford - stupid.

so if a household in the top few % of incomes can't afford the comfortable life they want

I think that the 'they want' bit is key here... We'd all like a more comfortable life no matter what we earn.

... so if a household in the top few % of incomes can't afford the comfortable life they want then there is something fundamentally wrong. In the specific case it may well be over-inflated property market related.

Or maybe its cos he spends half his take home on private schooling?

iolo - Member
I bought a house in Snowdonia and a small place in vienna mortgage free.

Are you single?
Are you looking for a partner 😉 😆

So the point of that part of the article is that this guy no only earns £120k so before he could afford everything he chose to do OK but now struggles. So it's just saying even the better off are affected by the downturn so fair enough. It is hard to set your commitment levels when well off as could always lose income. Not nice to take kids out of their schools as settled in there. I remember being angry at my Dad when he said he might have to take me out of private education, fortunately we had assisted places back then to save me. 😉