Life in Monaco / Nice region. Experiences?

actual physical relocation? how 2000's.

hybrid working FTW..

Well the road cycling is bl00dy brilliant round Nice!

Hows your French?

...and the vtt is, er, nice. (Mont Chauve just on the edge of town onward.)

Yeah actual relocation. To be fair, it's essential to the job!

The cycling is no doubt amazing. To be honest, that's not part of my decision right now.

I can manage us through our holidays without making a tit out of myself (so that's something). I know a smattering of Italian too. I suppose one of the draws of this job is that it's for a primarily British owned / run firm, so no language barrier (in work anyway)

I would be there before you could say deux croissants et une baguette s'il vous plait.

More specifically -

Cycling - it will be better there than where you are now (I don't know where that is, but it will)
Weather - ditto
Food - ditto
Wine - ditto
Kids - don't know their ages, but experiencing living in another country has got to be good for them, right?

And France is, mostly, massively rural, most people live like country bumpkins.

hybrid working FTW..

Indeed, a day in the office in Monaco, rest of the week in your place in the French countryside, sounds great.

A mate of mine lives in Villefranche, his garden overlooks Cap Ferrat and it is amazing. A lot to like down there but I reckon you'd need to factor in a lot of time in the car. Those hills are steep and the traffic in Nice can be bad.

Still, 4-5 hours from the alps, amazing cycling on the doorstep and 300 days of sunshine a year...

From a cost and quality of location perspective, I would move to France, just over the border from Monaco and commute in when necessary. You will have a nicer house than a cramped apartment and pretty much everything will be cheaper. Not sure about the tax situation but I am sure you can check that out, possibly a 'tax address' within Monaco?

I don't know what your job would involve but if working from home is an option for most of the week, a couple of days commuting into town might be worth it. Just check out carefully where you are moving to as there are a lot of 'commuter towns' where a lot of the people are doing just what I am suggesting you should do. This can ruin a town/village if too many people do it.

A couple of pairs of friends moved to France with young families a good few years ago, kids still at primary school at that time, no problem for them to integrate at all and have all stayed in France once grown up. I'd def say go for it, especially if you can keep a toe in the UK housing market.

There are a few of these threads about and every time, I would go and physically check it out... I moved out of the UK just before Brexit and the more I read about the UK, the more I think I'm allergic to the country. I do miss Edinburgh when I used to live though.

But as Murray Walker topically would say, Go Go Go!

I’d def say go for it, especially if you can keep a toe in the UK housing market.

I 'think' l could do this. Just need to find the right person to look after what is our home, not just a house.

From the folk I know who have moved away from the UK learning the language is absolutely key.  Otherwise you end up in a small expat community.
primary school kids is a much better time to move them than secondary is it not?

yes keep your house in the Uk at least for a couple of years if you possibly can even if its  a pain - makes returning much easier if the move does not go well.  Even if you do not sell it you have to let go of it emotionally tho.  Renting it out it becomes your house but the tenants home

Hi, I can probably talk to this a bit,
My Wife and Sister in Law grew up in Monaco. Same situation, father got a job out there and moved the family.
Wife and I live in Scotland now, but SIL still lives in Nice. With family connection I visit (both Nice and Monaco) at least once or twice a year. They originally moved when my wife was 2 about 40 years ago.

Nice is a lovely town, very like Edinburgh, small, walkable, good tram (unlike Edinburgh). Lots of nice places to go, eat hang out. You can commute to Monaco on the train, 20 min ride. You could even pedal it, lower corniche is not too hilly. Traffic is bad though, small twisty roads, too many cars etc.
Monaco is Monaco, pretty unique, plenty of the wealthy stuff to watch but also allot of normal people who were just born/live there. A few normal bars and places to visit without hitting the millionaires playgrounds. But Nice is a better place to go out and about in.

Cycling is amazing, Road and MTB. Water sports on the coast. Access to ski resorts in the winter is superb, Isola and Auron are close by. Summer access to the mountains is also really easy, picnics by the river, lakes etc.

Lots of expat, UK community down there, check Riviera Radio for lots of events, details.

I'd jump on it in a flash if I ever got the chance!

Just need to find the right person to look after what is our home, not just a house.

Just be a bit careful here - whilst they're living in it (and assumingly paying you rent), it's their home, not yours. You obviously don't want someone who'll trash the place, but you have to let go to a certain extent and treat it as a business transaction.

Just be a bit careful here – whilst they’re living in it (and assumingly paying you rent), it’s their home, not yours.

No that's understood. I used to rent our first house out up until recently.

Yup, left Wales for SW France in 1987. I felt that after years of pissing into the wind I finally got some wind in my sails - making things happen became much easier. I have no idea if there's a expat community here, STW is as much contact as I want with Brits, and all that has done recently is confirm my decision to leave was wise. I've been accepted into all the aspects of life I've ventured into and my brummy accent is much less of a handicap here than it was in the UK.

Yes I live abroad and hate inspecting uk property, and I ve never lived in them. Tenants just have a different set of priorities than you.

're Monaco a mate inherited loads so moved there, clearly a club for minted newbies I couldn't think of anything worse.

Why don't you rent a room and give it 6 months as a trial. Massive upheaval for yoir family if it doesn't work out.

TBH, with kids at primary school age and a company already lining a job up for you and a partner willing to move with you.
I'd already be lining up a medium term let for your first 6 months while you work out the fine details of location, commuting and schooling.

Kids will be capable in the local lingo within a year and fluent in two, Cycling is also a pretty good way to meet people in France, so you're also at an advantage there.

And if it all feels a little flat, or fails completely in a few years, if nothing else, it was a learning experience for all of you. And your kids will have a better appreciation of the world outside the UK. And a second language.

You know when we talk about threads being Peak STW?

This has raised the level. 🤣

And I'm jealous, what an opportunity.

I know nothing about life in Monaco beyond watching the Formula 1, but I’m of the general opinion that when opportunities like this come along, you should take them.

You can always come back if it doesn’t work out, but you rarely get a second chance.

This has raised the level. 🤣

And I’m jealous, what an opportunity.

I know (sorry!)

Thanks to you all for the replies though. I'm definitely going to go into the meetup with an open mind next year. I think my tendency to be cautious gets in the way of things at times, hence me asking here. That and l have no one to reference - my family and friends have resided in this part of the world (as have l) all their lives.

The only thing I'd want to be sure of before taking the plunge would be the standard of education available, particularly to expat kids with little French language. Kids are adaptable, and will learn the language quickly, but the impact can vary depending on their personalities.

I don't think there's any substitute for research on the ground before you chat to the company next year. You also need a clear idea of how far your money would go somewhere like Nice.

FWIW, i moved overseas with about 2 months worth of money in the bank, no job lined up, and all our worldly possessions in a van, inc. bikes and cat stuff! Had to find a job ASAP, as it would be 3 months to get the money from selling the house. Ended up in a one bed flat until then, planning interviews and job hunting. (only took me a week to get a job in the end.)

Still the best move i ever made. Even though i'm now divorced and sharing custody of my (bilingual) kids.

Driving the last few hundred km once i'd crossed the border, and been stopped by customs(!) was a combination of the deepest introspection i'd ever had (WTF am i doing?) and some of the most exciting thoughts i'd had to that point in my life.

In your shoes, i'd be looking at how to make sure you can do it rather than looking for problems and issues.

STW is as much contact as I want with Brits, and all that has done recently is confirm my decision to leave was wise

We love you too.

ok, first question is what do you do for a job and is it something I can learn to do very quicky then I can take the job instead.

I'd be there like a shot tbh. good uck

From a school point of view, girlfriend moved to South of France when her son was 9. He was quite introverted, had also just lost his dad so wasn’t in a great head space. But he absolutely thrived in the French education system. They both paid for additional French lessons and are fluent. She still has property over there that we all visit regularly. He is always stating that moving to a French school was the best thing that happened to him.
I wouldn’t hesitate to move on a permanent basis if Brexit allowed. I still visit for 3 months and come back again for 3 months.

I’ve also been to Nice a lot. I love the place. But it’s touristy. One thing to consider is your housing needs, South of France is very much apartment oriented. Will the company pay for you to live in a house of a similar size as you have now? My gf lives out in the sticks, property pricing (rental and to purchase) is more reasonable, but a lot of the hamlets are quite secluded with very little happening.

You can get a Visa? First question nowadays.

It's a nice area, though a bit of a cramped corridor parallel to the sea. Good that you know some of the language as having a social scene of expat brits is not the best thing, especially as you'll have kids in a school. Given they're young that's not something that would concern me too much - I guess you'll need to decide to go french system or expat, and that will be driven by cost and who's paying

Lots of excellent advice here. We did something similar six years ago when the NL arm of the company my wife worked for asked if she could lead a project here for two years. Our boys were four and six at the time, B****t had not long happened, and we'd already been looking at other options since the 19th of September 2014. Like you, we lived rurally, with land, livestock, and prime mtbing on the doorstep. We could have easily bottled it. But nah, it was only a two year placement. Sod it, we thought. The boys will adapt, a decent tenant will cover most of our mortgage and look after the place, and we'll be back before we know it, all Europeaner and worldly and everything will be fine.

The first two weeks were great, just felt like a holiday. Weeks three and four were when the meltdowns and tears came, every night after school. Probably only half an hour a night, but it felt like longer and it was heartbreaking. Six weeks in we agreed we'd give it six months but more likely four and if evenings were still awful then we'd go back. Three months in the meltdowns stopped and all of a sudden the boys were fluent in Dutch. It was like a switch was flipped! Not long after, maybe six months(?) my wife was offered a permanent contract which she jumped at, and all of a sudden we were here for life. Which meant buying a house, because renting here is typically two years and you're out, and we couldn't face moving every two years. This was probably the point where we should have properly taken stock of what we had and what we wanted, but with the boys settled in school we didn't want to disturb that again so soon after the last disturbance. We're in a pleasant enough village, and we have good neighbours which is an absolute blessing. But we'd love to be more rural, and if we knew then what we know now, we would be.
But that's by the by, and in six years we've made friends and put down roots and whilst not fluent or completely integrated, we can hold a conversation in a pub, in Dutch, without floundering too much.

That part of France? I'd be there in a shot. Friends of ours worked at ITER and we spent a summer down there at her place. The quality and pace of life is fantastic, especially if hybrid working is possible.

Going there knowing that it's permanent is a luxury we never had. I'm envious. It's tough at first but so rewarding, and you've got the opportunity to 'get it right' in terms of location straight from the off. Did I mention that I'm envious?

Oh, and we don't regret for a moment putting the kids in the local school. It immediately makes us more 'local' than expat. There is an expat 'community' where we are and frankly it's embarrassing. From the limited contact I've had with it it's coffee mornings and pub evenings and exclusively english-language, even at the barstaff.

Monaco is a horrible '70s concrete jungle so best avoided (unless for tax reasons)

Personally i'd be looking at Menton over Nice
Less touristy and more laid back

Yes, we were offered the chance to put ours into the International school locally as despite being born here and holding Swedish passports, they have one "non-native" parent and are entitled to go to alternative (English based) schooling.

So, anyway, they're thriving in the local school and get invited to all the local things with their school mates, who all live within about 10-15 km, rather than the 40-50km of the international school catchment.

The only extra they get is 60 minutes of English once a week from a tutor. Arranged by the school. This is in addition to the English they get anyway (start teaching it at 8 here, German and/or French starts at 11).

well I'm mostly a lurker here too, but reading it all in Provence...
moved here nearly 20 years ago and haven't regretted it despite life's ups and downs (3 kids, divorce, occasional redundancy etc etc.)

i thought i spoke OK french until I moved here - proved not to be the case and the first 6 months were a little tricky sometimes, but i didn't know any expats (and having grown up in multiple countries where that was pretty much all we knew) didn't go looking either. having kids in the local school will get you more integrated than anything else in my opinion.

Short version - go for it.

Steve.

My aunt and uncle live in Monaco, they have travelled extensively and can live anywhere they want and that's where they decided.

They have full citizenship and that means they are entitled to social housing, and it's really nice.

OP if you were working for a company in Monaco for long enough you may be able to eventually get citizenship too.

Better to do it, risk the possibility that you don't enjoy it, you can always come back.

Vs not do it and regret the missed opportunity for the rest of your humdrum, stable but boring, life.

Being a scientist, going abroad was always on the cards and we found a very random opportunity in Japan. It wasn't all a bed of roses and had career consequences (some good some bad) but we've never regretted it for a second. A life-expanding experience.

Have visited Nice a few times for work, was always one of my favourite destinations. Took our tandem and went on a touring holiday around the area a few times, Alpes Maritimes, Gorge du Verdon and Ventoux etc. Fantastic road cycling (BITD when Easyjet would take a tandem no bother).

As @wbo has mentioned, what's your visa situation? Are your new company going to sort out your visa/residency permit? How long is the proposed move? And will your visa be for Monaco or France? I'm not sure on the differences, but I wonder if a Monaco work permit would bring a French residency card... Are they arranging for your wife to have a work permit too? Hopefully you're an important enough big cheese that it'll all be sorted for you.

In terms of moving to France. Do it! And throw yourself into it. I think that a few Brits have the experience where they've sold a house in London and realised they could buy a big place in France, only to discover that it needs loads of work and that it's miles (and miles) from the shops. I'd imagine that if you're used to rural Wales, the fact that the shops shut for two hours at lunchtime, half of Wednesday and all of Sunday, won't bother you at all. Just go to all of the village fetes, eat in all of the local cafes and learn everyone's names...

Having blue skies and sunny weather is surprisingly easy to get used to. I imagine it'd be hard to think about moving back. I have a cycling friend who lives happily in Monaco and he's always nipping out for a bike ride with Froome or David Coulthard... Mind you, Nice isn't actually the proper south of France, you're still about 150 miles north of Perpignan. 😉

Cant believe the responses here peeps. Thnakyou so much!

I'll try and answer a few questions:

@chipps - The role would be permanent. The firm would arrange the visas. It would be a French Visa at first (essentially I would work for another firm as a contractor for 6 months, while arranging my green card. Once that's sorted, I would apply for a Monaco visa and become a full time employee of the firm who provide my employment). I have to admit that the process is not something I'm familiar with as I've only just gone about looking into all this.

@misteralz -

Weeks three and four were when the meltdowns and tears came, every night after school.

Yeah this is the bit that gets me. My eldest in particular struggles to make friends. She's only in the past 12 months finally found a small group of girls that she's happy to call best friends, and l worry that it would break her heart (therefore mine too).

Its all speculative right now, but l have a high degree of confidence in the firm, it's plans and the future prospects. Ultimately I need to make a decision next year. I feel it will be led from the heart more than the head.

Thanks!!!!!

See if you can take the family when you go for your meeting, make a longer trip of it.

See what the place looks and feels like during a cold damp January.

Most people Who work in Monaco dont live there. Nice is a short train ride.
Primary Kids Will be fine. My daughter was 9 when we moved to France. She was fluent in 6 months.
But it took my Wife nearly 4 years ! So keep in mind that if you dont make the effort it wont happen.

How do you and yours cope with heat? I've worked in Menton and surrounds in late June for a good few years now, and as someone who doesn't mind the heat in UK terms (unlike my other half who's happiest in midteens °C), the unrelenting battering from the sun when you're out and about and the high humidity get very old, very quick. (The van is usually telling me its mid 30s on the coastline)

It never helps that we're always camping, but its the kind of thing where you go for a shower in the middle of the night to try and cool down; by the time you've 'dried' off you're sweating again.

If you could live in aircon-ed luxury, maybe, but in this day and age, I'm not sure I could justify that from the environmental aspect.

Maybe you adapt; maybe the pros outweigh this. Just thought I'd flag it.

'It’s a nice area' I saw ya

If you could live in aircon-ed luxury, maybe

You simply need to adapt to the climate rather than the other way round. It's not that hard really.

You'll most probably be living in France as a transfrontalier, like the vast majority of people who work in Monaco.
Go for it, I say. The kids will adapt fast because they just do (faster still if you put them in the local school) even if you and your wife will take longer getting used to those little things that aren't quite the same in France. We're so similar yet different at the same time.

only partly relevant...what's the end plan? we moved to Aus with 9 and 11yr olds...obviously no language issues and both fitted in well though harder for older as mid school year and friendship groups already formed...came for 2 years then got extended and with young ones committed at school and other activities returning didn't look like would work and now we are staying...had experience of a couple of expat families who moved to Aus' with mid teen children and these young people really struggled (one family split with a parent and teen returning to NZ and the others totally committed had a very hard time for several years)... point I hope I'm making is for young ones the transition maybe easy but if plan to return there is a cut off point

Some great experiences shared and advice given. I make a point of not having regrets in life, but if I were to have any it would be about not taking opportunities like the one you have now. 4 times in the last 20 years I’ve had very real opportunities to relocate but never took them up, when I think of what we’ve missed out on, professionally for me and personally for the whole family, I sometimes kick myself. I’m generally a risk taker and love a bit of excitement but I always found a reason not to go.

I think you should go and try it, worst case is you come home, best case……?

Do it.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Seems like a fairly international lot here!

Just a question to those who moved abroad with the idea it was only temporary (such as those with 2 year contracts etc): Did you sell up at home, or let your homes out?

I'm in Canada and have been for 13 years... We initially moved "temporarily" and then switched to permanent.

We did initially let our house out in London. It's nice to know your not losing a spot in the housing market as it were until you're fully committed. I would say that letting out homes from a different country is not stress free and is going to hugely depend on your letting agent or model you choose. I used to dread waking up in the morning and seeing in my inbox "RE: {property name}" as it invariably meant there was some issue I was going to have to attempt to trouble shoot with a 7 hour time difference.

Your place sounds much nicer than mine at the time so it's also important to recognize that whilst you're letting it out it's not your home but someone else's. We never actually saw it again after we moved and sold it remotely but we did have friends who had a bit of a culture shock when they returned 4 years after leaving find some differences in things like garden etc let alone inside.

@wornout A couple of my colleagues have emigrated, one to Qatar and one to Darwin. AFAIK both have hung onto UK houses in case they decide to come back (sadly, as we’d still have jobs for them, it doesn’t look like it). This would be my advice if you can afford.

I don't know if it's important to you but check the tax situation carefully.
My best man moved to Monaco for tax reasons about 15 years ago and had to sever every single tie he had to the UK.
This included memberships of clubs etc. as well as the more obvious things like owning house here.
Even that didn't stop the inland revenue launching an investigation and trying exceptionally hard over a couple of years to try and extricate backdated tax from him.

Although ostensibly in Monaco they actually rented just outside Nice for a couple of years before buying an apartment in the principality and moving there full-time.
All the time their three children were at an international school near Nice so there was quite a lot of travelling involved when they moved to the apartment.

Overall he has quite enjoyed being in Monaco but is at pains to keep reminding me that there is a ladder of wealth there and he was always clinging onto the bottom rung by his fingertips!
To put this into some kind of perspective, he also has an 80ft "superyacht" in Antibes that they run away to whenever they can to get out of Monaco!

As has been said already, most people who work in Monaco do not actually live there.
He's pretty much had enough of it now and would like to move out and do other things, but his wife seems to have other ideas 😬

Apparently the French government have very little time for the government of Monaco either and will chase down anybody trying to evade French taxes by saying that they live in Monaco whereas in natural fact they are renting just into France.
On the plus side, if you've got monegasque on your car then the French can do nothing about your speeding tickets 😉

We rented ours out. On both occasions we moved abroad for temporary but long term reasons. Glad we kept it to be honest. Mortgage is almost paid for. If I’d have sold the house back then, pretty sure I’d have spunked it all on coke and hookers…..We are now looking at downsizing to be mortgage free, this wouldn’t have been possible if I’d have sold the house….but I’d have had some great holidays and shiney bikes!!
We let ours through local agency and had zero issues. House had to be repainted when we moved back in and new carpets, but nothing that was a major headache. Each time the tenants were aware that it was only for a fixed period of time. No hassles with them moving out afterwards. No real issues with them contacting us for jobs to be done. Maybe a couple of times a year, but not much.
We accepted it was in our convenience regarding letting the house out. There was no monthly financial bonus from renting it out, all money went straight back into the house. We were also very fortunate in both of us worked good jobs, we had a safety net should something go wrong.

Thought I'd provide an update!

Well, it appears the job is mine if l want to take it... Went out to the employer last weekend. Spent some time with management, some time in the office, spent a day or so nosing around the area in a hire car and a couple of pleasant evenings out. The job itself is great. Good prospects, but not much more money than I'm already on.

Big list of pros and cons. Unfortunately more cons than pros. The main one's being accommodation (or the lack of much other than apartments - with two kids and a dog), the price of said housing, Monaco (grim), Nice (busy). I'm a country bumpkin, so would want to live somewhere between the two, or up in the hills, or Menton. It's not the France of my dreams.

At the moment we're just weighing up schools, potential housing, potential work for my wife, and the logistics of it all (including work, possessions etc). I have people's jobs resting on my work in the UK too, so my conscience isn't finding it easy to just 'go'.

Got some follow-ups with various people. Time will tell...