[Closed] LIb Dems - remember them?

Tim Farron looked in good fettle last time i saw him. Not sure who the other one is but more power to him/her for keeping going.

Not forgotten, but not getting the coverage they once did. I'm encouraged by this, they did go all out, but it suggests that when people have the party platform presented to them it does strike a chord and have some appeal.

Sad that being a united, coherent party with a solid message makes for lousy 'news'.

I live in Witney and the Lib Dem's have obviously spent a lot of time and money on this one, we've had piles of letters and flyers through the door in the last couple of weeks and more than half of it has been Lid Dem!

Yes, noticed that too. I think they'll pick up a lot of anti-Brexit Tory votes (and there are a lot of those at least in the South) and a lot Labour voters dismayed by Corbyn. Not seen much of Farron but Clegg comes across well on TV.

I think they have the potential to do well next time around.

jimdubleyou - Member

I think they have the potential to do well next time around.

Wonder what would happen if they went full-bore "we're not leaving Europe"

Surprising.

I was hoping these unprincipled weasels would be consigned to the dustbin of history.

But then we've learned how stupid the UK public really are in recent months.

Not seen much of Farron but Clegg comes across well on TV.

yep, he's achieving "statesman" like status...

legend - Member
jimdubleyou - Member
I think they have the potential to do well next time around.

Wonder what would happen if they went full-bore "we're not leaving Europe"

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST SHARE

Agreed, what [i]would[/i] happen..

chakaping - Member

Surprising.

I was hoping these unprincipled weasels would be consigned to the dustbin of history.

But then we've learned how stupid the UK public really are in recent months.

In the absence of any sensible option....

I was hoping these unprincipled weasels would be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Hmmmm you mean the "unpricipled weasels" who, whilst part of a coalition, stopped the Tories from going full-Tory? I think now they have sole, uncontested power, we are seeing the Tories in their true colours.

I, for one, would be interested to see what they have to say at the next round of elections.

If the next General Election doesn't happen before 2020, there will be a lot of questioned asked if Article 50 has not been invoked by Theresa and then another party like the Lib Dems miraculously got into power with a manifesto that included staying in Europe whole-heartedly.

It's very hard to believe that ~100 years ago, the Whigs were the party in power.

unprincipled weasels

Principles are useless without power, as Labour will prove after the next general election.

The Lib Dems get/got hammered for being in coalition with the Tories, but people forget that many of the achievements that the Tories take credit for (like the £10k+ tax allowance) were actually Lib Dem policies. And they only got those policies accepted by compromising on other things (like tuition fees). That's what you get with coalition; compromise. And there's never a perfect compromise.

*edit* and what Mikey74 said

I was hoping these unprincipled weasels would be consigned to the dustbin of history.

TBH Tim Farron is the only politician I'd let into my home without searching them on the way in and out, have met him a couple of times and he seems a genuinely good bloke, I don't share all his views but would venture that as a human being he's a different proposition to the oxbridge by the numbers blair clones of the rest of the centre ground

He even stoppped for a chat when I snapped my Grapil

UKIP no longer represent a protest vote, as there seems to be the perception they might actually achieve something, leaving the Lib Dems clear to take back their rightful place as the party people vote for when they don't want to vote.

I've said in another thread, now more than ever, there is a place for the Lib Dems, a pro-Europe, centre ground party is exactly what we need with the Tory's pushing right and Labour pushing left. There are a lot of people at the moment who don't feel they fit with either of the main parties, I for one would like to see a resurgent Lib-Dems do well.

Agree with IHN. LibDems were the brakes on the Tory bandwagon in the coalition and somehow - combination of the Tory press and the ignorance/lack of experience as to what a coalition had to be - got made the whipping boys for having given up on one part of their manifesto.

Whereas every other politician in history has always delivered exactly what they promised, obviously.

corroded - Member

Not seen much of Farron but Clegg comes across well on TV.

TBH mostly what Clegg's done lately is tell us all the things he should have said and done when he was in government. It's interesting, but if he'd done it then it'd have been important. Instead it's basically a list of mistakes and regrets with his name on top.

Well the student fees issue was unfortunate but they still align closest with my own views. They're the only party opposed to the snoopers charter for example.

"I was hoping these unprincipled weasels would be consigned to the dustbin of history.

But then we've learned how stupid the UK public really are in recent months."

Steady. People like Binners still need someone they can vote for. 😉

So what's the Libs' stance on Trident, then? Because they have a lot of persuading to do in Scotland after the Blatant Liar episode.

Now that the Tories have effectively morphed into UKIP, and Labour has become has become the Socialist Workers Party (comrade) its almost as if normal, non-deranged people are looking to find someone who isn't completely ****ing insane to vote for.....

binners - Member
Now that the Tories have effectively morphed into UKIP, and Labour has become has become the Socialist Workers Party (comrade) its almost as if normal, non-deranged people are looking to find someone who isn't completely ****ing insane to vote for.....

its a big hill for them to climb though, still a lib-lab coalition is a reasonable prospect

what I dont understand is why the Tories are going even further right atm, UKIP has managed to completely implode, they dont need to appeal to the racists anymore!

So what's the Libs' stance on Trident, then? Because they have a lot of persuading to do in Scotland after the Blatant Liar episode.

They're officially against.

after the Blatant Liar episode.

I thought that was an anagram of Tony Blair for a moment.

I was hoping these unprincipled weasels would be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Really? You could see the coalition with the Tories as blatant opportunism and selling out. Or you could see it as putting your moral duty to mitigate the worst of Tory policy before your own long term political future. Or you could see it as a pragmatic mix of the two.

But as you say chakaping some members of the public really are stupid aren't they 🙂

what I dont understand is why the Tories are going even further right atm, UKIP has managed to completely implode, they dont need to appeal to the racists anymore!

I think a lot of them are rather enjoying themselves, and have taken the referendum resultas a sign that they don't have to pretend any more, and are now positively revelling in showing their true colours.

And from inside their little bubble, they can't see how repellent this is to most moderate voters

mikey74 - Member
Hmmmm you mean the "unpricipled weasels" who, whilst part of a coalition, stopped the Tories from going full-Tory? I think now they have sole, uncontested power, we are seeing the Tories in their true colours.

I, for one, would be interested to see what they have to say at the next round of elections.

IHN - Member
unprincipled weasels
Principles are useless without power, as Labour will prove after the next general election.

The Lib Dems get/got hammered for being in coalition with the Tories, but people forget that many of the achievements that the Tories take credit for (like the £10k+ tax allowance) were actually Lib Dem policies. And they only got those policies accepted by compromising on other things (like tuition fees). That's what you get with coalition; compromise. And there's never a perfect compromise.

*edit* and what Mikey74 said

Quite right.

Your typical educated, "centre-left-leaning" (if such labels mean anything) STW forum user would be far better served by Lib Dem ideas than modern Labour. Since when was "extremism" useful for running a country?

[b]The Tories' mask has fully slipped now and it isn't pretty.[/b]

Your typical educated, centre-left-leaning STW forum user would be better served by Lib Dem ideas than modern Labour.

Indeed, I've always voted LibDem (and not through blind allegiance, just because at each election they are the party that aligns with my thoughts the most)

Actually, that's no quite true, I voted Tory in '97. Yep, I was the one 😕

Agree with IHN. LibDems were the brakes on the Tory bandwagon in the coalition and somehow - combination of the Tory press and the ignorance/lack of experience as to what a coalition had to be - got made the whipping boys for having given up on one part of their manifesto.

its true they tempered them

Its true they enabled them
IMHO clegg was very naive -0 as NW notes he seems to agree- and they were rghtly stomped on by the electorate

TBH Tim Farron is the only politician I'd let into my home without searching them on the way in and out, have met him a couple of times and he seems a genuinely good bloke

Since when was "extremism" useful for running a country?

Lazy tabloid trope - where is ernie when you need him?

What is sextreme in relation to labour

Well, Corbyn and Abbot making the beast with two backs for one thing 🙂

😳

😆

I think Junkyard has not got over the Kylie thread yet with his 'sextreme' views.

I voted Libdem for years until that Godless Philanderer took over and like Blair promised everything and delivered nothing, made for TV good looking suited white boy when are we ever going to learn.

What they should do next, merge with the Greens, kick out the mentally retarded tree hugging nutters and present a solid Green opposition, oppose the fossil fuel lobby at every turn and call this so called Green Tory party (they did say they were green once I recall) to account.

I don't think the LibDems have made massive ground here. Witney was the fifth safest seat because the PM was the incumbent. New candidate, mid-electoral term, and a similar majority to what Cameron got first time around.

Nice to see them edging away from oblivion though. God knows we need some effective opposition.

"God knows we need some effective opposition."

And you genuinely think the LibDems will offer that? 😆

Do you not remember what happened when they were in the coalition?

Low turnout, comfortable Tory hold. Just a few days ago articles where speaking of a Lib dem win 😯

Lib Dems: Unprincipled indeed. AV was a "grubby little compromise" and Student Fees for a start

I see Corbyn was actually invited to campaign there so that's a step up from "please stay away"

Bernie Saunders brother stood for the Greens

What's extreme with Labour ? A leader in favour of no Nukes (unilateral), veherminantly anti NATO and US, Marxist Chancellor, pro nationalisation. Protest politics

"normal, non-deranged people"

People like you, Binners? 😀

"Your typical educated, "centre-left-leaning" STW forum user..."

..would understand that Labour are nowhere near being 'extremists', and that such labels are only applied by desperate/deluded/ignorant/paranoid right-wingers.

Green Tory party (they did say they were green once I recall) to account

Of course the Tories are Green, they even have a tree as their logo and everyfink 😉

[img] [/img]

No Labour aren't extremists, but they are in shambolic disarray, at odds with their own membership and incapable of presenting anything coherent to the nation.

that such labels are only applied by desperate/deluded/ignorant/paranoid right-wingers.

McDonnell called hinself a Marxist. You won't find many developed nation Finance Minister wannabees are Marxists. Labour have been taken over by Socialist Workers Party / Alliance Workers Liberty types. Was speaking to some lifelong Labour party members yesterday and they are in despair. Local party overtaken by radical Momentum entryists. The one sitting MP in South will be deselected and Labour will as a result lose the seat (their view)

I phoned up the Liberal party offices to get tickets for their conference.
They told me "We've sold out".
I replied, "Yes, I know that - but have you any tickets left?"

I replied, "Yes, I know that - but have you any tickets left?"

hope you have a day job. 😉

And you genuinely think the LibDems will offer that?

Do you not remember what happened when they were in the coalition?

Sadly for Labour, coalition government is pretty much the only way they will have a sniff of power in the next two decades, so they better start hoping that the LibDems start picking up a bit.

Won't vote for them until they start making an effort to field people who actually represent the constituencies they run in, one of our last candidates was from Edinburgh FFS. Oh, and some compaigning would be nice.

As for the coalition -

With Tories - damned
With Labour - damned
Refuse to play - damned

It was a no-win situation, anyone who can confuse compromise with selling out clearly doesn't understand how a coalition works. Maybe they overstepped the mark but what did they get in return?

[quote=kimbers ]what I dont understand is why the Tories are going even further right atm, UKIP has managed to completely implode, they dont need to appeal to the racists anymore!

Because they can.

I voted Tory in the past (there I've said it), and even if my views hadn't changed markedly I'd really struggle to vote for them right now, and for those voters with positions like I used to have the Lib Dems offer a genuine option. Labour might not be extreme, but some of the current senior members certainly have views which would seem so to the middle of the ground voters who swing elections - they after all are the ones who matter, not you lot who would vote for a monkey with a red rosette.

Though I'm kind of relieved to see I'm not alone in my opinion of the Lib Dems, sometimes I've felt like a lone voice defending them from the big deal being made about the tuition fees thing (for anybody who wants to argue, I'll still make the case that the current system is far more fair and progressive than the one in place in 2010).

The interesting thing about this result isn't that it shows a resurgence of the Lib Dem vote - for those suggesting it's disappointing that they didn't win, was there ever a realistic prospect of that? A recovery to the share of the vote they had when Cameron was first elected is a good result. The bigger thing though is that they now seem electable again - a vote for them won't seem like such a waste as it did at the last GE.

aP - Member
I phoned up the Liberal party offices to get tickets for their conference.
They told me "We've sold out".
I replied, "Yes, I know that - but have you any tickets left?"

POSTED 26 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

[quote=squirrelking ]Won't vote for them until they start making an effort to field people who actually represent the constituencies they run in, one of our last candidates was from Edinburgh FFS.

Not quite that bad here, but still a shit candidate conducting negative campaigning to follow a shit candidate doing even worse negative campaigning at the previous GE. I haven't felt able to vote for either of those, when even a bland but competent candidate might have got my vote.

Though I'm kind of relieved to see I'm not alone in my opinion of the Lib Dems, sometimes I've felt like a lone voice defending them from the big deal being made about the tuition fees thing (for anybody who wants to argue, I'll still make the case that the current system is far more fair and progressive than the one in place in 2010).

The Lib Dems were held to a higher level of account than the other parties and seen as different. In fairness, they were a good coaliton partner.

Voting Labour because you grandparents were coalminers or dockers or voting Conservative because your parents did doesn't make much sense to me.

It was a no-win situation,

anyone who can confuse compromise with selling out clearly doesn't understand how a coalition works.

Maybe they overstepped the mark but what did they get in return?

I agree they did some ok things- pupil premium for example- but essentially they capitulated on their principles and their platform to get their hands on power to show they could govern and to get a PR vote
It has spectacularly backfired for them as a vote for the lib dems is like rolling a dice - what will you get ? who knows

I voted Tory in the past

Dont' understand the concept of coalition?

Watch [url= http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1526318/ ]Borgen[/url]

for anybody who wants to argue, I'll still make the case that the current system is far more fair and progressive than the one in place in 2010

This. I'd swap my 2000 SL agreement for the current one if I had the choice.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/lib-dems-regain-position-as-britains-last-desperate-choice-20161021115783 ]The Mash nails it yet again![/url]

😆

Bloody good job they backed down on tuition fees. At last we are moving to a situation where the real value of tertiary education can be assessed, proper competition may in time be allowed, more flexible course structures introduced (eg 2 not 3 years) and companies who value the education received will increasingly support those who seek it (bursuries, dedicated degrees etc).

Progress may be slow, but its coming....and the LD are not in the way there.

"Bloody good job they backed down on tuition fees"

So, you're against free universal education? Why, exactly?

Do you have a degree, and if so, did you pay tuition fees?

Dont' understand the concept of coalition?

Watch Borgen

Worth watching anyway, tis very good.

And [s]Birgitte's[/s] Sidse Babett Knudsen is in Westworld....

The lib-dems could have went into a coalition with labour in 2010 but picked the tories instead, I don't think they should be forgiven so soon.

A coalition with Labour would have given them 315 seats in total, still 11 short of a majority in parliament. They'd have had trouble getting anything done.

They had their moment and they blew it in spectacular fashion.

No use crying now, they won't be trusted again.

Could you imagine going into a coalition with Gordon Brown?! Ditto Corbyn. As coalitions go, it wasn't such a bad one.

Do you have a degree, and if so, did you pay tuition fees?

First time no. Crazy situation. Others who didn't have the same benefit paid for me. Absurd wasn't it? I had no idea what value of my education was worth. Why should I? I didn't pay and there was no direct relationship between me as the consumer and the profs as the suppliers. Hence, there was little incentive for the staff to focus on my needs. They were paid to do research and guess what they focused on?

Second time. Yes 100% plus opportunity cost of not working. So I was v focused on the value and whether I made the correct choice. Much better situation. The profs were very focused.

Could you imagine going into a coalition with Gordon Brown?! Ditto Corbyn. As coalitions go, it wasn't such a bad one.

Once in coalition though I think they should have been a bit tougher in sticking to their guns.

[quote=aracer ]A coalition with Labour would have given them 315 seats in total, still 11 short of a majority in parliament. They'd have had trouble getting anything done.

they had more than the Tories though and you forget the SNP 😉

True but they really could have bargained harder by simply not going into coalition as the Tories could do NOTHING without their help. They should have just let it be a minority govt but he wanted to show statesman like qualities and that they could lead the country. This blindsided him to the fact he also had to have principles and , however vaguely, stick to them

He played his hand terribly- FFS he only held onto his seat due to tories voting for him out of gratitude
SO everyone hates him but Tories basically

Worth noting the lib dems also lost seats on the 2010 election

A part if me feels sorry for him and them as they were honourably inept rather than dishonourably corrupt.

Bad decisions made for the right reasons basically but they deserved the electoral shoeing they recieved and clegg should have gone

I've always voted Lib Dem. I formally joined the party after the debacle of the Referendum after campaigning for Remain in Bath and Bristol.

I've recently watched Nick Clegg speak in Chipping Sodbury. He's a powerful orator and a great spokesman for the EU, the perfect counterpoint to Farage. I don't know too much about Tim Farron, but fully support their policies and stand by their track record.

We need change in this country, intelligent, rational change. Labour had their shot at it with some successes, but are a lost Party at the moment. I'll do EVERYTHING I can to help them win even a sizeable minority during the next GE.

The one good thing to come out of Brexit, and the tin hat wearing, sceptical part of me believes this was the Tories plan all along, is the death of UKIP, to whom the Tories were losing a lot of votes. No longer. UKIP voters will vote Tory (mostly) rational/remain Tories will vote Lib Dem. labour remainders may also vote lib dem unless the Reds can reorganise. SNP...who knows, but the LDs and the SNP have a fair amount of common ground...

I'm a lapsed Tory, but becoming increasingly Liberal in recent years. The Tories gave completely lost touch with the world they rule, refuse to accept that the market can't fix everything. Labour remain a financial liability to me, and are too keen on state control and intervention for my liking.

LibDems offer a mature reasoned middle ground to me. Plenty on here will disagree with me of course.

Reckon I'll be voting for them next election, partly because they seem to be the party most opposed to brexit but mostly because they're the least bat-shit crazy 🙂

MCTD you seem to have a different take away to many commentators who conclude that May's conference speech was characterised by a level of interventionism not seen in a Tory leader for a long, long time.

Blimey, she even hinted that independence for the Bank of England was not a given, Perhaps Jacob R-M wrote that bit.

My sentiments exactly shermer.

Both labour and Tory leaders appear to be little more than mouthpieces for the most foaming-at-the-mouth, batshit mental headbangers in their respective parties.

The Lib Dems look pretty well placed to get back their traditional 'none of the above thanks' vote

Who'd have thought that would happen so soon. Just goes to show how much the main parties have so fully descended into their own particular form of collective self-absorbed insanity, both equally repellent to the general electorate

Perhaps Jacob R-M wrote that bit.

In what parallel universe is there a constituency so detached from reality that J R-M would get elected in a public vote?

The mind truly boggles 🙁

T Farron is on HIGNFY - Cleggie last week, the LDs are on a roll

J R-M is great company FWIW - or used to be when our careers crossed many years ago!

"J R-M is great company FWIW"

Unsurprising that you'd consider someone who consistently votes against equality and human rights, gay marriage and equal gay rights, not to mention stating he'd vote for Trump if he was a US citizen, to be 'great company'.

First time no

So; you've benefited from a universally free higher education system, yet you favour the privatisation of higher education (which has been proven to exacerbate inequality). OK.

You know, you could pay the government an amount equivalent to what anyone entering university now would have to. You say you want to actively help others; if you paid the equivalent of the current tuition fees, you'd in effect be helping subsidise the education of others. What a great idea! So you'd have the ability to help others in need!

If only that kind of concept was a political and economic ideology...

Have a jog clod

Have a nice weekend, THM.

THM - yes, May could be a force for change in the Tory party. Whether she will, or do it quickly, remains to be seen.

A force for change? Very likely. In the worst way imaginable. John Harris in today's Guardian made an interesting point about those at the top of the Tory Party at the monent, of which May personifies. As does Corbyn for Labour

Both are 'led by people who are neither intellectually curious, nor shaped by the great technological convulsions that have shaped the last 25 years"

And that's why we are where we are. That's a big opportunity for the Lib Dems

It was good to see the BBC focus on the Libs surging past Labour this morning rather than them cutting a 25k Tory majority by 20k. Anyone would have thought Labour lost a huge amount of votes compared to last time. 😐