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Has led by example by selling his private jet...
I struggle to take advice on green issues from a man who has probably had a carbon footprint 100x more than mine over past 10 years.
He could help more by paying tax in the UK.
****.
He does drive a hybrid car though.
He's capable of anything when it comes to the environment except self reflection it seems.
Fed up of wealthy hypocrites telling me what to do!
Well, if he said "**** the environment, let's just burn the place down", it would be very bad. If he said nothing and pretended there was no problem, it would be better. Saying that we should address the problem is much better still.
On the bright side, the hybrid engines have seen a huge increase in efficiency, up from about 30% or 35% to about 50% now. That means that the engineers have a much better understanding of the combustion process and how to extract energy from it. Whether that's actually relevant is another question, but emphasizing the efficiency of hybrids is better than when sheer brute power was the only thing that mattered.
He has gone vegan though 👍👍
I think his car still does 5 mpg. Add to that all the air travel for him and everyone else connected to motor racing...
I think his car still does 5 mpg
I think it'd do a great deal more in the Combined MPG test
Add to that all the air travel for him and everyone else connected to motor racing…
The same can be said of any major sport or entertainment. Tens of thousands of fans have flown to Japan to watch the rugby. Every time there's a major sports event or concert on, tens of thousands of people drive to see. Should we ban traveling for sports and entertainment and limit entry to people who walk or cycle there?
If he'd really wanted to do something about it he could held on to his jet and had it disassembled so it could never be used again, and packed his job in stating why he was packing his job in.
Meh. The job's ****ed. Do what you can, if you want, but until every other massive thing that makes money on the back of ****ing the planet is stopped (by law or force) the job's ****ed.
Lewis Hamilton saying people should be greener is like Hannibal Lector putting out a vegan cookbook (unless it's called "how to cook Vegans")
He has gone vegan though 👍👍
How did you find that out? Normally vegans are so restrained about telling people such things...
Should we ban traveling for sports and entertainment
I would.
Should we ban traveling for sports and entertainment and limit entry to people who walk or cycle there?
Probably
Should we ban traveling for sports and entertainment
I would.
So you never do, no holidays, never go further than what you can walk or cycle ? How many people would want to live in a world where such freedoms were taken from us, basically slaves.
Many years ago, i seem to recall that F1 cars did 1.9mpg or thereabouts.
So 5mpg is quite an improvement.
It does seem a particularly odd thing for him to suddenly open up about.
Apart from the fact he now has a vegan burger bar.
He's been open about it for a good while now - it's just his Instagram post from yesterday was a tabloids wet-dream.
how to cook Vegans
Rare, preferably. Some of my favourite ingredients are vegan.
How many people would want to live in a world where such freedoms were taken from us
Some people want the freedom to fly to Benidorm, some people want the freedom to throw carrier bags in the ocean. I guess you draw your own line depending on how long you want the earth to continue to sustain life...
So you never do, no holidays, never go further than what you can walk or cycle ? How many people would want to live in a world where such freedoms were taken from us, basically slaves.
Me First and Gimme Gimme Gimmes.
Nobody suggested having to work 24/7 or not being able to travel. You can easily do 70 miles in a day by bike if you wanted to see the world. Also, driving and flying are hardly innate human rights.
Well, if he said “**** the environment, let’s just burn the place down”, it would be very bad. If he said nothing and pretended there was no problem, it would be better. Saying that we should address the problem is much better still.
+1
He's in the public eye and making a statement that actually makes sense. It obviously clashes massively with his jetset lifestyle, but he is still not wrong. For him, doing "something" might be selling his private jet. For an average guy in the street doing "something" might be buying a more efficient car. If we all do nothing then there will be no progress at all. If everyone does "something" it will make a big collective difference.
Nice unbiased report there woody2000 - are there reports on the global impact and financial greed of of Football? Athletics? Tennis? Horse Racing? Professional Cycling?
You can easily do 70 miles in a day by bike if you wanted to see the world.
I don't think the average person planning their holidays is going to be much attracted by this.
TdF must have quite the footprint. I suppose we should just stop listening to anybody who has ever done anything.
He could help more by paying tax in the UK.
****.
Indeed, like all the Pro Cyclists who have scooted off to Monaco.. But hey, plenty of Oligarchs living in London paying nowt here, but in their own country/offshore investment house.
Same old argument, the Laws were made to actually assist offshoring, not restrict it... Wasn't it Norman Lamont (Tory) that started it?
Well, if he said “**** the environment, let’s just burn the place down”, it would be very bad. If he said nothing and pretended there was no problem, it would be better. Saying that we should address the problem is much better still.
Absolutely - he's got a lot of fans, so him saying it will also have a much wider influence than me having vegetarian sausages with my breakfast this morning and walking to work (both of which I did - get me!). Good on him.
Of course, every global sport/event has an enviromental impact. But we were talking about an F1 driver giving some advice on being greener so I cherry picked an article about F1
I struggle to take advice...
we're all on the same journey, we're all starting at different places. As others have mentioned, he has influence, and he's starting to do his bit.
chapeau.
TdF must have quite the footprint
They could easily use electric support vehicles for instance.
I don’t think the average person planning their holidays is going to be much attracted by this.
I didn't say they would.
he uses a push scooter to get around the circuit. So no motorbike.
They could easily use electric support vehicles for instance.
Only really now tbf, and even then they teams need the sponsorship money from the car manufacturers so not all could yet play. Would also then need charging infrastructure to be in place at all the random towns/villages/hotels they have to use throughout the race
There are some very big issue affecting the world and climate that should be tackled first rather than trying to get individual habits to change, which will have a much less significant effect.
Such as the fires in Indonesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Indonesia
in 2015 "The fires released enough greenhouse gasses for Indonesia to produce more daily emissions than the United States for 38 days."
"Forest and land fires burning in Indonesia have released 360 million tonnes of carbon dioxide since August, said Singapore's Minister for the Environment and Water Resources Masagos Zulkifli on Thursday (Sep 26).That's more than Spain’s emissions for the whole year in 2018, he added.
"Greenpeace estimates that in the past 50 years, more than 74 million hectares of Indonesia's biodiverse rainforests - an area twice the size of Germany - have been chopped down, degraded or burned.They have often been destroyed to make way for plantations for the lucrative palm oil and pulpwood industries, particularly on Sumatra and Borneo islands, with fires often started illegally to clear land."
and then there is the Amazon :
"The fires in Indonesia are far smaller than those in the Amazon, the world's biggest rainforest.Close to 2.5 million hectares of land was burnt in August, Greenpeace has said, citing data from INPE, Brazil's national space research institute.
Wildfires in Bolivia have torched 2 million hectares of forest and grassland since August, while in Brazil, 88,816 fires were recorded from January to the end of August, over half of them in the rainforest."
More developed countries need to take action - maybe pay higher taxes to pay these countries for the loss of not using one of their natural resources.
Plastic pollution needs an engineering solution to go clear the oceans - we can collect shed loads of fish from it, why not plastic?
Lots more still to do, but sounds like a step in the right direction. Well done Lewis.
The problem is who do you get to put over the environmental message without them being labeled a grade-A hypocrit?
Greta Tunburg has the advantage of being 16 and not having a personal history of gratuitous environmental destruction.
Much as I love to watch Hamilton lose, which he doesn't do often enough, anyone who is prepared to stick their head above the parapet, state the obvious and take the inevitable shit gets my approval.
Bernie Ecclestone ought to be brought into the whole argument...
Plastic pollution needs an engineering solution to go clear the oceans – we can collect shed loads of fish from it, why not plastic?
The costs of collecting fish are covered by selling the fish as food, it's a very lucrative industry. Nobody wants to buy old plastic. The problem isn't one of engineering, it's finding the money to pay for it. Much easier to not put plastic into the ocean in the first place than to fish it out again later.
Greta Tunburg has the advantage of being 16 and not having a personal history of gratuitous environmental destruction.
Then you just see the “she’s a puppet” bollocks getting rolled out instead
imo its a good step.
Yes there are huge problems which will take years to clear up. However I believe in everybody doing something.
Hamilton is so well known, that he has the power to influence people.
we’re all on the same journey, we’re all starting at different places. As others have mentioned, he has influence, and he’s starting to do his bit.
Agree. If everybody reduced their personal impact by 20% it would probably be enough.
Dp
They could get rid of the stupid night time races. Those floodlights must burn a few kj.
I was at ToB and watched all the motorcade come in and thought given how green cycling is how ungreen tour riding is.
"Extinction of our race is becoming more and more likely as we over use our resources."
I'm completely in favour of our own extinction
The problem is who do you get to put over the environmental message without them being labeled a grade-A hypocrit?
Greta Tunburg has the advantage of being 16 and not having a personal history of gratuitous environmental destruction.
Much as I love to watch Hamilton lose, which he doesn’t do often enough, anyone who is prepared to stick their head above the parapet, state the obvious and take the inevitable shit gets my approval.
^^Precisely.
I'm no Hamilton fanboi, but being honest about it He's already shown more willing than most people, even if his profession is by definition a globe-trotting, emission-fest. We've all got to start from somewhere.
Those who instantly cry foul and start pointing out the perceived hypocrisy are really just looking to excuse their own unwillingness to adjust their own lifestyles. By trying to deflect and make environmentalism the responsibility of some fictional, blameless group within society it means you can carry on driving everywhere, racking up the air miles and generally treating the environment as "Someone else's problem"...
Greta is both a blessing and a curse IMO a lovely little spokes person/figurehead who raises awareness. But I can't help thinking the developed world listens to her speeches nods along, clap when they're meant to and then feeling that they've now done their penance by letting her talk, go straight back to strip mining and shipping plastic tat halfway round the globe using bunker fuel... So what does that really achieve?
Plastic pollution needs an engineering solution to go clear the oceans – we can collect shed loads of fish from it, why not plastic?
The fishing industry is one of the main causes of plastic pollution. It is causing much more problems than a few plastic bottles or straws.
I struggle to take advice on green issues from a man who has probably had a carbon footprint 100x more than mine over past 10 years.
Here we've got the crux of our problem. People are treating this as one of personal virtue. If you can simply attack the messenger and show that they're worse than someone else, we think that's enough.
Well, unfortunately this is not a personal issue, it's one of cold hard scientific fact. We do all need to be greener. It makes no difference if it's Lewis Hamilton telling you or Jesus. It's an unavoidable fact. So stop trying to make yourself feel better by pointing out Hamilton's obvious transgressions. It makes NO DIFFERENCE.
There are some very big issue affecting the world and climate that should be tackled first rather than trying to get individual habits to change, which will have a much less significant effect.
Again this is massively flawed reasoning. You can't simply say 'well X is worse, so I don't need to worry about Y'. That is just conveniently excusing yourself.
WE ALL need to make changes. From governments to MTBers to everyone. Otherwise we'll be stuck in an endless loop of bickering and recriminations and finger pointing and nothing will get done - which is where we've been for the last 30 years.
Governments have the power to change things, but for that to happen people need to vote for them, and for that, PEOPLE need to want to change things. And the way to get people to want to change things is to normalise the message, which is exactly what Hamilton is helping to do.
Current F1 cars are limited to 100 ltrs per race. Fuel consumption at Silverstone equates to more than 8mpg so F1 is certainly moving in the right direction.
Awaits severe ticking off from the Fun Police....
Greta is both a blessing and a curse IMO a lovely little spokes person/figurehead who raises awareness. But I can’t help thinking the developed world listens to her speeches nods along, clap when they’re meant to and then feeling that they’ve now done their penance by letting her talk, go straight back to strip mining and shipping plastic tat halfway round the globe using bunker fuel… So what does that really achieve?
It's a piece in the puzzle. Hamilton appeals to some people, Thunberg appeals to others. The only way things will change is if there's an overwhelming wave of public support. This has been happening slowly in my lifetime, but too slowly. Public opinion is shifting, we need to keep shifting it.
Thunberg is a ****ing hero.
Just out of interest, what do vegans taste of? Chicken?
Agree. If everybody reduced their personal impact by 20% it would probably be enough.
or, if those in the top decile limited their personal impact to, say, 500% of the average, it would probably also be enough, and people who are way below (their national) average like my MIL could stop feeling so guilty about driving 5 miles a week.
Governments have the power to change things, but for that to happen people need to vote for them, and for that, PEOPLE need to want to change things
Agree but the way PEOPLE have been voting over the last 10 years would suggest we are going backwards so relying on people to vote in the right government is never going to happen unfortunately. People may wake up in 40 years time when the impact is more obvious to them personally.
All of the technical aspects of F1's development of hybrid cars will benefit everyone in terms of the development of new road cars.
I'm not trying to claim F1 is anything like approaching 'Green' status, but they do actually do some good.
They're fairly efficient, well whilst visiting 20 countries a year, they share transportation (well, they're forced to use F1s expensive transportation) and yeah a lot of them fly private, they do tend to fill their planes with reporters, teammates, basically anyone who'd part of the circus they get on with.
It's not just burning fossil fuel for money either. It might be pointless trying to claim they're saving the world because the cars do 7mpg now and not the 2 they did in the V10 era. (longest race is Spa at 300km / 191 miles, car carry a max of 125 litres or 27.5 gallons, but they have to keep a litre for post-race testing and they will have some reserve of course so it might be as much as 8), but regulations have forced teams to work on efficiency.
It might be a coincidence, but F1 went from large displacement engines with lots of cylinders to smaller Turbo Charged Engineers with less - exactly what road cars did. They're also hybrids, again it's not about making F1 greener per-se, it's about them spending millions on R&D which trickles down to Road Stuff.
He needs a common sense manager for his social media accounts. He's being a bit of a blithering idiot outside the car.
Agree. If everybody reduced their personal impact by 20% it would probably be enough.
Sadly the global population has doubled in my lifetime so it's only a sticking plaster solution.
Agree but the way PEOPLE have been voting over the last 10 years would suggest we are going backwards
Not necessarily. ALL parties have some sort of greenwash going on and we do get bits and pieces of eco legislation - most of it from the EU, granted.
If you want to see how much worse it can be look at the US where there's a concerted campaign by all vested interests to discredit anything eco purely so that businesses can make money. It's FAR worse than it is here, and it's purely greed driven.
Greta Tunburg has the advantage of being 16 and not having a personal history of gratuitous environmental destruction.
Yet gammons still complained that she is a hypocrite because she sailed in a boat made from carbon fibre.
Probably the best way to get the “Green message” out there in general is to shout down anyone who makes an effort who we either don’t like or who isn’t perfect.
That should speed things up 👍
I’m no Hamilton fanboi, but being honest about it He’s already shown more willing than most people, even if his profession is by definition a globe-trotting, emission-fest. We’ve all got to start from somewhere.
Seen it all before. Whenever someone rich and famous does something like this, people start screaming hypocrite. I mean, how dare they rebel and try to help change the system that created their wealth. It's the same for wealthy music stars and poverty.
I mean, damn those Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, East Germans etc, for wanting change and rebelling against the system they were brought up in...communism. How very dare they.
woody2000 https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/30/the-gigantic-carbon-footprint-of-formula-one//blockquote >
Valid points about the fuel used for flights etc.
But why oh why do these people have to comment about the racing? It's been the best season I can remember for racing and I've been watching 30 odd years.
'so aerodynamically sensitive, it’s impossible to pass on most tracks'
'DRS makes it so easy a child could do it'
'the engineers dictate how to drive the car'
'fake racing'Surprise surprise later on he goes on to say he 'used to watch it'. Right, so you know **** all about the racing now then.
Because the racing has been absolutely superb this year. And it's getting even better in 2021 when the new regs come in, further reducing the downforce reduction on following cars.
DRS has been tuned pretty nicely to set up but not make overtakes too easy, e.g. Albon/Kvyat in Hungary
The season also has been notable for drivers ignoring their engineers.
'all this so wealthy white men can become even richer'
What is the relevance of Bernie being white?
Lee Valley white water centre has signs above the urinals saying (roughly) "for the environment these urinals are flushed using recycled water".
I do have my doubts about the usefulness of that when compared to the huge pumps throwing lots of water around.
The wonderful thing about Greta, is that she's got through to children. I've been emailing a local school head, who says often the children are teaching the parents.
It would be great if some children started to feel embarrassed about being ferried to school just one mile, in a 4x4.
If Lewis Hamilton gets his message across to some teenagers, they may start to make changes.
Ideally we need these 'non sleb z lister types' to start speaking out, then the very people who don't really give a toss may stop buying plastic tat and do something.
I'm no long haired, tree hugging hippy, but compared to the average UK adult I don't think I have many significant "green gains" to implement...
No kids and no plans to have any
I've not had a car since late 2011
I've not flown since 2005
One and only cruise ship holiday 2008
I've usually cycle commuted since ditching the car, except just after my accident, when I used the bus
We recycle what Southampton City Council collects, albeit their recycle list is very poor IMO
The carrier bag charge made me see sense and use rucksack/material bags/trolley for food shopping etc.
I typically have ~5 lunches/dinners (sandwiches usually) involving cooked white meat
I only do takeaway coffees on holiday (Center Parcs) and take a re-useable cup
etc.
It does sound rather ironic that Lewis is apparently telling us to be greener (yet to read article), but the message needs to be spread by people of influence and Lewis certainly has that. The world population keeps increasing and the convenience cancer keeps spreading, but who or what is going to make the average non-hippy change their ways?
I would be very interested to know if any kind of study has been undertaken to see what impact meat eating (given part of LHs comment is regarding veganism) has compared to the throwaway convenience wastefulness that pervades every single supermarket (for example, I find it incredibly hard to buy loose mushrooms). Surely if all supermarkets stopped selling all pre-packaged fruits and vegetables (with the possible exception of soft fruits like strawberries and blackberries) and completely abolish all convenience rubbish like pre-chopped carrots (who, FFS needs pre-chopped carrots) and pre-made mashed potato (which is then sold in plastic pots). Surely it would be a much quicker win to change people's shopping habits like that rather than wholesale lifestyle changes such as going vegan?
I'm sure Lewis Hamiltons next advice will be on buying groceries and whether he prefers Aldi or Lidl (or maybe just whichever one has comfy slippers on offer).
Sadly the global population has doubled in my lifetime so it’s only a sticking plaster solution
This is intellectually lazy bullshit that places the blame on the developing world.
It’s been estimated that to hit the IPCC target only requires the equivalent investment of 5 percent of the global economic growth by 2050.
The shocking thing about all
of this, with a bit of central planning and co-operation - we’d not notice a ****ing thing in terms of economic prosperity.
Those who instantly cry foul and start pointing out the perceived hypocrisy are really just looking to excuse their own unwillingness to adjust their own lifestyles.
As the op of this thread, I can safely say that if everyone in the uk had adjusted their lifestyle in the same way I had we'd be far better off than we are.
No kids...yep
Rarely drive, less than 1000 miles a year - yep
Fly a max of once a year and always travel by train for any required business travel- yep
are really just looking to excuse their own unwillingness to adjust their own lifestyles
Nope, I don't need an excuse. I was pointing out the hypocrisy because it's so glaring...a man who flys all over the world to drive a car round a circuit at 5mpg, then in his spare time drives numerous 6 litre supercars. Telling us we should do more for the environment..
If I didn't hate the man so much it would actually be funny
Cutting out all meat is not always a good thing.
If you find a good butcher that locally sources his produce, from a farmer that is taking steps to look after and feed his animals in an eco friendly way, also with out the use of antibiotics. Then eating meat in small amounts is ok.
I take my tupperware to the butcher, he pops small amount of meat onto paper (or directly into container).
Also we need some cattle, sheep, chickens, pigs etc.
These animals create insects that feed the birds, create dung which is mostly good for fertilising and they keep various types of grassland down and managed. Pigs are great for clearing land etc.
Seen it all before. Whenever someone rich and famous does something like this, people start screaming hypocrite. I mean, how dare they rebel and try to help change the system that created their wealth. It’s the same for wealthy music stars and poverty.
But Hamilton isn't rebelling apart from going vegan and opening a vegan restaurant, that and a few words. He hasn't despite his 100's of millions given up his occupation or seriously altered his life style. He could easily retire, live a simple ultra green life, anywhere in the world he wanted to. Make a simple statement that motor sport has run it's course and is no longer appropriate in this day and age, and quit. But he hasn't so everything he's got to say on the matter is humbug. His wealth (which I in no way begrudge, its well earned) gives him the opportunity to make choices most of us can't. Make a couple of those hard choices and I'll listen, untill then........
Edit.
To him not the message in general.
Greta Tunburg has the advantage of being 16 and not having a personal history of gratuitous environmental destruction.
plus she looks very scary when she gets going...
Veganism didn't suit Will Smiths son :
I just feel sorry for Greta. It’s going to be bad - but not as bad as whatever vision she is having for her future.
All the power to her though, just breaks my heart a bit when I see someone her age so despondent.
If a lot of kids her age are in the same place emotionally, it’s going to be another lost generation who never had a chance to be care free.
That bothers me.
As I say, there are some huge issues like those fires that governments need to cooperate together to solve first.
If developed countries need to pay taxes towards the engineering effort required to clean up after themselves, then so be it - that's the price of their consumerism.
Ever increasing air capacity with no tax on aviation fuel just has to stop, excessive car usage has to be discouraged and alternates encouraged where possible.
All this talk of actual extinction isn't helping either - that's not going to happen - we are mammels and adaptable.
Let's be more realistic and graphic about what climate change will actually mean - loss of low lying land areas and huge numbers of deaths from sea level changes, wars over water supplies,
possible ice-age if the gulf stream moves/shuts down
1 return flight per year per person. Any more have to be bought at £100 (as well as ticket price). money raised goes to green stuff.
1 return flight per year per person.
And this is why it now needs to be at government level, no more relying on market forces and commercial incentives. We're well beyond that point :(.
I also find it mindblowingly shamefull that it takes the power of a 16 year old girl, starting by herself to really get some momentum behind this.
All of these restrictive ideas that the more self righteous STW members have suggested sound a lot like fascism. Is that what you really want, or are you just looking for a replacement for religion?
JP
Lol, a tax on flights is fascism?