[Closed] Lets talk about Man Utd

FTR, the Glazers bought United in 2005.

Binners [b][u]buy[/u][/b] a season ticket and current shirt then you can put money into the club that they need? 😉

I think a large part of Moyes coming in is because he's good at building squads - on a budget.

i'm sure i mentioned this a few pages back...but i have to agree with what Binners said above

the sad thing was last night that i noticed on facebook a lot of so called united fans were rooting for city and were happy with the result...all because it now puts city ahead of liverpool again...

instead of worrying how their club is doing they're more focused on putting one over on their rivals at the other end of the M62...reminds me of utd's barren wilderness years during the 70's and 80's when all they could look forward to was beating liverpool and winning not much else...these so called fans have even less fight and desire than the players who played last night
as a liverpool fan i'd much prefer to beat a full strength man u side thats playing well...i doubt we will as its city's to lose, but if we were to win the title then i have a pretty good idea what the man u excuses will be

.

It will do for the season and his first year

Last year RVP was on fire and the opposition was generally afraid of ManU / Fergie, now that fear factor has gone and further than that every team fancies their chances against them. I too was impressed by what Moyes did at Everton and was glad ManU appointed a British manager but sadly he looks totally lost and as has Ben posted before Everton have improved a lotthis season so you do wonder. Moyes is a dead man walking, ManU don't want to sack him for appearing hasty or to have made the wrong decision in appointing him but he has to go, we all know it and so does he.

Just having a think about possible outcomes over the summer...moving the discussion on.

Moyes given the chance to walk rather than it appearing he's been sacked? (Not convinced myself that this would happen.) He'd still walk into a job at a mid-table side (now, now) as he's proven that's what he's good at.

What's the betting Everton will have him back in exchange for Martinez?
No, thought not!

If he walks, presumably the five years left on his contract count for nothing. It's by no means certain that he would walk into another job straight away. So he would be a fool to do it, as it wouldn't even save his face by avoiding the sack.

'Mutual consent' with money in his pocket, a year off then into somewhere like Fulham, I guess.

'Mutual consent' with money in his pocket, a year off then into somewhere like Fulham, I guess.

I should have made myself clearer. Your suggestion is kinda what I was getting at.

Steve Bruce would love the job

Last year RVP was on fire and the [s]opposition[/s] [b]Referees[/b] were generally afraid of [s]ManU[/s] / Fergie, now that fear factor has gone and [s]further than that every team fancies their chances against them[/s] opposition penalties are being given at OT.

Man Utd Fans, Check out the Cost of last night starting XI's 😀

Which side 😉

Its a pointless debate by most teams standards in this league if not the world they are big spenders
however they are nowhere near the levels [ fees and equally importantly wages] of a City, PSG, Barca or RM

I don't think Moyes will walk, he's never going to get a job like this again so he will stick at it until he's sacked or turns it around. If he is sacked he should take a break perhaps retire completely or manage abroad if anyone will have him. In my view the style in which they will inevitably lose to Bayern will determine whether he starts next season as manager. As someone with experience of fierce rivalries at Everton saying that City are the standard he wants to reach at ManU is pretty naive.

Guardian reporting that ManU fans where having a go a Ferguson after the match for appointing Moyes [url= http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/26/sir-alex-ferguson-abused-fans-appointing-david-moyes ]Guardian Link[/url]

Junkyard - lazarus

Its a pointless debate by most teams standards in this league if not the world they are big spenders
however they are nowhere near the levels [ fees and equally importantly wages] of a City, PSG, Barca or RM

Maybe but they are greater than that of Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton & Spurs, none of whom added £80m worth to their squad in last 12 months... 🙄

Both starting XI's btw, Utds cost more... Lolzzz

hey are greater than that of Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton & Spurs, none of whom added £80m worth to their squad in last 12 months.

I agree we have spent in the last 12 months but it may be better to look over a longer term trend unless you want to argue Spurs are the big spenders in the league - I assume they spent the most last year

I understand it is football but lolz and eye rolling when I am barely disagreeing with you..is it really needed?

Linky for valuations [ I assume you are using what they were bought for rather than what they are worth now to make your point] as google was not helpful. I would assume the values currently are not in Man U 's favour nor the squad one either.

deadlydarcy - Member
He'd still walk into a job at a mid-table side (now, now) as he's proven that's what he's good at.

Delivered with a straight face 😀

All this "it's my fault" and shocking body language supports the "dead man walking" idea. Reminds me of the Martin Correy era at England RU - all doom, self-effacing negativity. It was draining to watch as it is with poor old Moyes now.

It's always painful to see someone promoted beyond their capabilities and the suffering in the public eye. How grey will he be by end- season?

Clearly, it matters how much a team has available to buy players in, and as is shown on multiple threads, it seems difficult to get an agreement on who has spent most over the last few seasons. As far as I'm aware, don't the tables tend to correlate with wage bills mostly anyway, not what they spend on players in the first place? I must see if I can find a link on this sometime. I would have thought that Chelsea and City have the highest wage bills currently. (though I guess Rooney's contract will skew Utd's wage bill somewhat) I'm also betting that Ferguson was better at managing players' wage demands than Moyes is - as we all know, he was never afraid of letting a player shag off when the time came - whereas Moyes is probably shitting himself about RVP and to a lesser extent, Rooney.

Delivered with a straight face

😀

Hence the "now, now" as I knew somebody would quote me and say "He's already at one." He over-achieved with Everton and I think he would still do so with a similar side. But, yes, I agree, he seems to have been promoted beyond his capabilities...either that or told to jump onto a ship with an enormous hole in the hull and told to plug it. I realise Utd didn't have the squad to win the PL this season. It was always going to be between Chelsea and City - but there's no way they should be this far behind with eight odd games to play.

It was always going to be between Chelsea and City

Oi... have a word !

😉

🙂

It still is to be fair. Liverpool look favourites to be third which would be a massive over-achievement. Top 4 since 2009 is still a big achievement with the club being run (relatively) prudently at present with a nice little cash injection from UCL qualification.

EDIT: the above @ weeksy

He should have let Rooney go (2nd time around), adds little to the team, and costs a fortune in wages. If he had any sense Mata would start instead of Rooney every time.

Liverpool look favourites to be third

You should do better than that tbh play both city and chelsea at home
I think you should be thinking of challenging for the league tbh

Lets see tonight first and then we'll go from there 🙂

I personally think Liverpool are sneaking up gradually on a 2nd place by 2 points to Chelsea- thats my prediction with it being Man City's title.

The worse thing Man U can do is keep hold of Moyes for another season thinking hes another early-Fergie. Did Fergie commit alot of howlers?!

No he never made a single solitary mistake ever. Even buying Veron has since been proved to be genius, that was simply misunderstood, as he was so far ahead of his time.

17 million for ashley 'wind would blow him over' young

ouch

Ferguson was never great at buying establishe world class players; veron being the classic example but also Young

What he was very good at was buying promising young players and developing them within the club to become world class players- Ronaldo, Evra, De Gea, Rooney, Ole, Neville, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs etc

there is along list of crap buys as well though and many were seasoned pros
Ruud
Staam
RvP

there are probably other non dutch ones if you look
Ferdinand
Carrick
Berbatov

Etc

For every ronaldo there is a bebe, Djemb-djemba or Veron
his record is somewhat mixed

He had a lot of young players come from the academy in the early to mid 90's, he never matched that again, it is hard to say how much he was responsible for that and how much it was down to other academy staff in place at the time. What he did do at that time was mainly buy well to match the players that came through.

At that time it looked like the club had a proper 5-10 year plan, and none of the others did.

At the moment it looks like it is city and liverpool who have mid to long term plans.

Ruud and Stam were brilliant!

I,m always happy to read stuff saying man u are rubbish but rudd van nistelrooy crap for man u,you sure?

He had a lot of young players come from the academy in the early to mid 90's, he never matched that again, it is hard to say how much he was responsible for that and how much it was down to other academy staff in place at the time.

If you watch Eric Harrison (who ran the Academy) interviewed on the Class of 92, he says it was Fergie who quadrupled their resources, and championed it, within weeks of taking over as manager. Getting them winning the under 16's before bringing them straight through into the first team. So you'll have to give him the credit for that.

Ruud and Stam were rubbish? Erm… I think I must have been watching a different team to you for a few years then JY 😯

I remember a statistic that 30% of all transfers will be a failure. Much cheaper to buy younger players and develop them, acknowledging not all will make it (remember Luke Chadwick?).

Ah, yes I forgot Berbatov!!

I also remember someone doing an analysis of Manager performance based on points pre & post substitutions. I think Jose was top and Fergie second. The lack of an ability to come up with plan B is Moyes biggest failure- he plans for a game but seems incapable of doing anything to change formation or strategy if things don't go according to plan A

Berbatov was the highest goal scorer in one season, he wasn't all that bad. There have been far worse over the years, like Phil Jones and Tom Cleverly.

Phil Jones will be ok, if he is allowed to settle into a position. Tom Cleverly is being asked too much of, I think he needs a break from the pressure to allow him to develop a loan season and being dropped from the England squad might do him good.

I agree about Jones. He's (along with de Gea) one of the few positives this season. I think he's the best of the younger centre backs. Smalling seems to be going backwards. Ideally jones should have been playing every game as centre back with Rio/Vidic alternating so jones could learn from them. Injuries have kyboshed that though :-/

Yo man! Im from the USA, Ive been a big fan of the United since they were formed in 1993!
Last night was my 1st game at the Old Trafford United Stadium! I ran into some buddies from home, Chad and Troy! They go once a year and have all the latest jerseys and scarves, the Norwich City one and Umbro ones too!
Everyone was real nice to us, I didn't realise you guys all talk with London accents, thats so cool!
I just really wish we came last week instead because we heard we missed the open top bus parade for the Champions League Quarter Final Cup. Man we're real upset about that!
I was a little confused on why you had a fire drill last night with 5 minutes to go? We followed everyone else out and missed City's final touchdown too!
Hope to see you guys next year, we've already applied for a couple of Champions League tickets for next season so see you all then! Laters

1/10

I think I must have been watching a different team to you for a few years then JY

Apologies

What he was very good at was buying promising young players and developing them within the club to become world class players- Ronaldo, Evra, De Gea, Rooney, Ole, Neville, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs etc

Whilst you can't argue with the quality of those players bought through, where's the next class? Why aren't they producing the next Beckham's, Scholes & Giggs?

De Gea was hardly a cheap purchase, nor was evra or even ronaldo...

Genuine question from a non footy fan: if Moyes left or was booted, who would you want to replace him, out of the people who are not in a job or would make themselves available?

Ronaldo was £12.5m. Not cheap but fairly barginous considering the level he plays at

Not sure who I'd want to replace Moyes. They need someone with winning experience in the premier league and champions league, and someone who'll stick around for 5 years not cut and run (which is why I suspect they didn't go for Jose). That person doesn't exist, which is why they went for Moyes. That person still doesn't exist so no idea who they'd pick.

I can't see Fergie taking the reigns, even for a short term.

MTB-Idle 7/10. Made me smirk 🙂

MTB-idle - 8/10 to a fellow soccerball fan

Next manager for United, that German fella, Klop? Or Martinez. Oh the irony

Rumours do suggest Louis val gaal, although other rumours suggest he's off to Tottenham

Tom Cleverly is being asked too much of, I think he needs a break from the pressure to allow him to develop

Serious? He plays football twice a week, tops, and trains 4 /5 times. For this he receives more in a week than I earn in a year. 12 months playing will see him "earning" more that I will in a lifetime.

This is the main reason I stopped following football. Pundits constantly barking on about a "short career" when asked to justify wages. Sorry, but when a footballer finishes his playing career why can't he go on to another job?

Low IQ and lack of transferable skills? Some find speaking difficult!

have you heard them interviewed

I suppose they could ask if you wanted fries with that 🙂

Serious? He plays football twice a week, tops, and trains 4 /5 times. For this he receives more in a week than I earn in a year. 12 months playing will see him "earning" more that I will in a lifetime.

You sound bitter and jealous. It's a market driven wage, people will pay it.

Tom Cleverly is being asked too much of, I think he needs a break from the pressure to allow him to develop a loan season and being dropped from the England squad might do him good.

I prefer to use his trademarked name #TC23. 🙂

Serious? He plays football twice a week, tops, and trains 4 /5 times. For this he receives more in a week than I earn in a year. 12 months playing will see him "earning" more that I will in a lifetime.

He isn't playing against you though, he is playing against midfielders who aren't having to deal with the problems he is. IMO I think the whole of the football world was so in awe of fergie that he was able to twist his influence to get players into international squads when there performances didn't really deserve it, he used it to boost his players and squads psychology and belief. Now they are a few cracks apearing it is having the opposite effect it is adding presure.

This is the main reason I stopped following football.

Well thanks for joining in a discussion on a topic you have no interest in, that explains perfectly how pointless your view is.

he was able to twist his influence to get players into international squads when there performances didn't really deserve it,

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/26/paul-scholes-manchester-united ]This[/url] makes for interesting reading. I did find it a bit surprising to see the famously reclusive Scholsey pop up as a pundit on Sky the other night. And he didn't pull his punches. But then, why should he?

So, say, hypotethicinaflshallyly, were another consortium to buy Utd, would they also have to buy the debt? (perhaps thm might know the answer to this). The Glazers indebted the club with the cost of buying them (how the bejeesus that's even allowed to happen by the EPL is crazy in the first place) according to many posts here. I don't know the exact details but if the Glazers sold up, what happens the debt? Would it stay with the PLC? Or disappear somewhere? 😕

With Liverpool FC, the new owners had to buy the debt too. How they finance that debt is open and up to them completely. I'd assume it's exactly the same for Utd.

dunno if this has been posted already

(perhaps thm might know the answer to this

Indeed DD, but past experience says don't get involved with explaining how debt structures work on STW!!! Suffice to say, that no CL complicates matters otherwise they were close to being able to repay most debt by 2015. Not sure when that will happen now.

Apparently, if they're not in the CL, then the Glazers have already lined up a schedule of exhibition matches in the far east in the summer, which would apparently net as much income as the Champions league. Though that was announced before the recent run of results. It may not add to the clubs appeal to be beaten 5-0 by a Japanese second division side

But hey… lets not be premature. We might well win the CL yet 😆

but past experience says don't get involved with explaining how debt structures work on STW!!!

Proverbs 12:16

DD, I will post a very good link later. Try googling hedge fund manager called Andy Green (I think). From memory, he has a good blog with lots of data on Man U's financing. Given his job, he should be up on the investment maths!

The fact that you can buy a company financed by adding to the debt of that company seems bonkers. I'm sure THM will tell me it's absolutely fine.

Proverbs 12:16

.But hey… lets not be premature. We might well win the CL yet.

And why not, it might be another "football, bloody hell!" day. 😀

The Glazers have already offset the financial loss of not being in the CL? Yeah right.
If they could make so much money playing exhibition matches in the summer they would have been doing it anyway and so would many other teams with huge international fanbases. Plus you'll be playing the Europa qualifiers in July.

Whichever way you cut it Utd are at least £25 million down due to not qualifying.

I fear that story has been put out there to placate an already dis-illusioned fanbase.

Still, you might win it this year............

@deadlarcy it's most likely any takeover would include the current debt. What the Giaziers did is bog standard, bought a company with low debt and strong cash flow and put debt into the company to finance the deal and take cash out. If ManU had of wanted they could have protected against this but the fact is that wouldn't have been in the prior owners interests as it would have reduced the value of the club, ie the sales profit to them.

As for CL revenue loss, yes that will be a material dent but not threatening to the survival of the club or the Glaziers.

I see supporters have raised money to fly a plane over the stadium with an anti Moyes banner. What a mess.

DD, I've been out, but as promised here is the link to the site that I was referring to. Hope it helps.

http://andersred.blogspot.co.uk

seems like this thread is unusually quiet today

I'm no huge football fan these days but had a dream a couple of weeks ago that Man Utd won the champions league...

You are David Moyes and I claim my Fellaini comedy wig 😀

seems like this thread is unusually quiet today

Nothing like finally drawing at home to get rid of all the haters 🙂

I only watched the first half, but United had a decent shape defensively at last. If you could just swap Felliani for someone with a bit of skill and pace...

BBC seem to think Moyes is now as good as gone.

Apparently Manchester News has reported, in a lack of news kind of way, that Man Utd have [i]refused to deny[/i] Moyes is about to be sacked.

Ryan Giggs in charge for next year, I assume.

Giggs as caretaker until the end of the season then either Klopp, Simeone (?) or Vanghal (?) to come in as Giggs doesn't have his full UEAFA licence

that Man Utd have refused to deny Moyes is about to be sacked.

Wenger yet to sign his contract 😉

They certainly need someone with experience so I doubt they will go with Giggs.

you could get 33/1 on moyes getting the boot a week ago (after going out of the champions league) I thought that was very generous at the time wish I'd got my wallet out now 🙁

Neil Lennon or Ally McCoist 2014-2015 season.

Wildcard-Henrik Larsson

I don't see why they would get rid now as there are only a few games left. I know there is a lot of press speculation, but reckon he'll stay for the last few games.

I think Moyes would have got away with early wobbles if he hadn't decided to totally clear out the backroom staff when he took over. However much they were Fergie's team, they had clear relationships with the players and understood how to get the best out of most of them.

Still a shame to see someone booted after less than a season, if it's all true, which it sounds like it is.

Still a shame to see someone booted after less than a season, if it's all true, which it sounds like it is.

To be fair, he's failed massively - I can't see Chelski or City tolerating a similar performance from a new manager, Spurs certainly didn't.