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Expensive midfielders called Juan. What could possibly go wrong?
binners disagree about City. City were in a squad building phase- spurt to get upto speed so it looks/looked skewered.
What about Berbatov? Others- spend on bad players. Man U aren't exactly poor when it came to spending.
What I 'love' about Man U fans around me is the way 'the winker' was slagged off for wanting to progress to his next team after years of toil/giving his all for Man U. He always said he wanted to play for Real one day. It wasn't a shock. Yet the fans I heard acted as though he was a traitor/want-a-way kid. You got 60m for him!
😆 @ martinhutch
[i]We are not skint by any stretch but we are certainly not competing with the top tier of [ sugar daddy] owners[/i]
Ah, well thats different and something you should be proud of. You are using the Clubs income to run the club and not being used as a rich mans play thing.
You are not buying your Trophies.
Van Persie still injured, or is he just pretending to be sore while his agent does the rounds? If he stays out much longer, the Europa league is beckoning.
Binners - Getting rid of the Glazers, so we stop financing the losses of American shopping malls would be the best thing that could happen at OT
You'll have to get yourself down to one of them anti-Glazer protests like the true Man U fan that you are. 😆
binners don't you watch Man U's matches on hooky-sky in pubs outside of Manchester? 😉
the Europa league is beckoning
Only if city win everything and europa league places trickle further down the premier league finshing places.
Shut it Hindle Pie, You blue monkey! You've got to get past the mighty Sunderland yet 😀
Hindle Pie IS proper Manchester though binners. Manchester-born, City fan etc.
Not like you and me- born/from outside pretending to be local..
My son is Stretford-born so could in theory..
Become a City fan.
Shut it Hindle Pie, You blue monkey! You've got to get past the mighty Sunderland yet
Yeah right! Like City are going to be beaten in the cup final at Wembley by a relegation threatened side. That would never happen. Ever!
martinhutch - MemberVan Persie still injured, or is he just pretending to be sore while his agent does the rounds? If he stays out much longer, the Europa league is beck
As an Arsenal fan I just hope he remains injured and never plays again.
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Nice, even if he was about to secretly resign for Wenger?
Even then. Although I obviously wouldn't want him to then sign. 🙂
Not enough money spent on Squad you say? Here is an '11' for you... 🙄
David de Gea £17,800,000
Phil Jones £16,500,000
Rio Ferdinand £30,000,000
Nemanja Vidi? (captain) £7,000,000
Patrice Evra (vice-captain) £5,500,000
Antonio Valencia £16,000,000
Marouane Fellaini £27,500,000
Michael Carrick £18,600,000
Ashley Young £15,000,000+
Robin van Persie £22,500,000
Wayne Rooney £25,600,000
Its true Hora, we wouldn't have him back.....for anything!
RVP made Man U's season last year plus the opposition capitulating. Man U have plenty of money, enough to waste £27m on Felini who was/is appalling. Mata is a good buy in terms of quality but expensive. It sends the signal to me that they know Rooney is off elsewhere. Chelsea look to have made a good signing of the Egyptian lad from Basle, just highlights how desperate Man U are.
I still say they will sneak into the CL places as their form will look much better once RVP is back, but that's a poor season really.
As an Arsenal fan I just hope he remains injured and never plays again.
RVP was a very loyal servant to Arsenal, he left because he wanted to win something and you cannot blame him for that.
[i]RVP was a very loyal servant to Arsenal, he left because he wanted to win something and you cannot blame him for that.[/i]
Not really, we bought when he was going through a troubled period, made him the Player he is, stuck by him thru the rape allegations, numerous injuries and finally when he started to do the business, he upped and left for vast sums....more than double what we could afford to pay. If you honestly believe he left to win something, you are deluded!
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With love from Elland Road. (will swap circumstances...) 8)
You are not buying your Trophies
is that because we are not getting any trophies
Here is an '11' for you.
Including a number of players bought about a decade ago and many from 5 + years ago.
No one has said we are skint but it would be hard to argue we are competing with the top teams in terms of spending or spending power.
If you honestly believe he left to win something, you are deluded!
how long did you want him to stay then
Its true that it is the reflection of the modern footballer where there is no loyalty but I think the reasons he gave are genuine. Had arsenal; been winning and the top team do you still think he would have left - is it deluded to think he would have stayed? He is no Ashley Cole but i can see why a fan would dislike his actions
but it would be hard to argue we are competing with the top teams in terms of spending or spending power.
I think united's and city's net spend would be pretty simillar over the past 2 seasons.
Man U's rinsed through loads of players over the past few years?
www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-united-transfers.html
jambalaya - MemberAs an Arsenal fan I just hope he remains injured and never plays again.
RVP was a very loyal servant to Arsenal, he left because he wanted to win something and you cannot blame him for that.
Funnily enough we see the situation differently.
So from summer 2011, United have a net spend of 80mil and City 100 mil. Mata will put United on 115mil.
Chealsea 140 million
Arsenal 40 million
Liverpool 60 million.
So united are right up there with the big spenders.
Which idiot paid 30m for the lazy Berbatov?
Cant be Fergie. He was brilliant
I think united's and city's net spend would be pretty simillar over the past 2 seasons.
I think we are about £100 million behind or thereabouts and more if we did not have the massively talented fellani!
they seem to average circa 70 million + since 09 and us about 30 million ish perhaps a bit more some seasons
It slightly unfair to pick the last two years only given the big spending they have done over the last 4 years but yes both teams are rich but no one can think Utd are the richer
Man U's rinsed through loads of players over the past few years?
they are buying "talent" ie young players not top dollar players soa lot dont make it and Fergie was not as great with young players as everyone thinks
Paul Pogba - Imagine if he was there now eh and he went for nothign and is now worth circa 40 million!!!
OF course they have spent though I am not denying this but the key to success is IMHO how much you spend and they are trailing
Never mind all that. Haway the ****in lads.
he upped and left for vast sums....more than double what we could afford to pay.
re RVP, I assume you are not talking about transfer fee (as that wasn't so high) but wages. Arsenal have a wage policy which in this case worked against them. they could have afforded to pay him higher wages, they chose not to.
As regards the general discussion ..
One area where IMO Moyes was untested was the transfer market and I mean in the sense of buying players to win things rather than just being there or thereabouts. With only the acquisition of Felini he bought just one terrible player. His other main target Baines would't have helped either. Fabregas was never going to move, his focus should have been on signing players who might actually be available.
Man U are lacking a leader on the field and in the dressing room, the prior candidates for that role are on the way out, too old or out of form.
It slightly unfair to pick the last two years only given the big spending they have done over the last 4 years but yes both teams are rich but no one can think Utd are the richer
Well how many transfer windows have United outspent city over the past 20 years. City built a team quickly over a couple of seasons, then started spending the way united have for a long long time, trying to add quality to an established team.
Which idiot paid 30m for the lazy Berbatov?
He's a quality player and had some great seasons for United. He is/was never the sort of player to track back and certainly not the type to be motivated to do that playing for a Fulham team heading for the Nationwide.
48 goals in 4yrs. How does he compare
Traditionally UTD had an excellent defence of the list of players
Vidic and Evra 7 and 5 million wonderful buys but old
De Gea is looking a good buy and possibly a great buy
UTD no full backs really need a Dennis Irwin, great defender, unfussy and great I n possession........all the full backs even evra are ropey
Two centre halves.........rio and vidic out possibly jones and evans but both are error prone
Defensive midfielder............proper 'water carrier'
Valencia been a nightmare positional and defensively cost several goals
sell Rooney best season for years positionally nightmare wants to do everyone else's job....dropping into the hole is not what he does, more akin to the kid on the field going give me the ball I'll do it....
sell strikers chico and possibly wellbeck
so what are UTD left with Fergies make do and mend spending, wild buys Bebe anyone and Moyes trying to rebuild but his natural instinct is stolid play rather than attacking, not always great person management and tentative buying policy,
Everton are far better with Martinez,
ps I am Liverpool fan and we will not make champions league withoiut Lucas...imagine saying that 3 years ago
I haven't read any of this thread, and my local club is Huddersfield Town (!), but I loved the flowing football that Manchester United played over the last few decades.
paulosoxo - Member
Never mind all that. Haway the **** lads.
+ 2:1 😉
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So from summer 2011, United have a net spend of 80mil and City 100 mil. Mata will put United on 115mil.Chealsea 140 million
Arsenal 40 million
Liverpool 60 million.So united are right up there with the big spenders.
What astonishingly round figures, almost like they were just made up on the spot.
And this website says they were.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/
And if you can't be bothered with an overview here are the net spend figures since City came in to their oil money.
Manchester City £480.05m
Manchester United £138.75m
Chelsea £269.75m
Liverpool £89.4m
[url= http://unitedeye.net/season-preview-2013-14 ]Home link[/url]
Written last year:
Opinion Pieces, Pre-Season, Premier League
Season Preview 2013-14
by Editor • July 25, 2013 • 3 Comments
After one of the biggest changes in the club’s history, predictions for this season have ranged from a comfortable title defence right the way down to the permanent, irreversible demise of Manchester United. The truth is that it’s incredibly difficult to predict how things will pan out in the absence of Sir Alex Ferguson but there are various clues which suggest things may initially be very difficult.
I’ve been of the opinion for about 18 months now that the current squad is approaching the end of its cycle and needs freshening up. The signing of Robin Van Persie papered over those cracks to great effect, and his acquisition effectively won Ferguson one last title, but it was only a short term measure. Certain players like Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Valencia and Ferdinand have struggled to find consistency and/or fitness and this will be a huge problem for Moyes. They have been vitally important for a long, long time but their influence will only continue to diminish, and that will place huge pressure on some of the younger players – many of whom are unlikely to be ready for that burden yet.
If the team does struggle for the first few months, it’s easy to imagine the likes of Cleverley, Welbeck, Smalling and Rafael becoming slightly overwhelmed with the immense pressure on their shoulders, and that would be an almighty shame because they all deserve the chance to work towards having long, successful careers at United. Phil Jones in particular is potentially a future captain, but it’s likely he’ll have to make a rapid progression from “youthful squad player” to “indispensible first team player” this season, and it’ll be interesting to see how he responds to that.
Another important issue for Moyes to consider will be how to make use of Wayne Rooney. I have little doubt that Rooney will approach or exceed 20 goals and probably get just as many assists if he plays behind Van Persie this season, but the last couple of years have already demonstrated that Rooney’s presence in deeper areas compromises the fluency of the team overall, even though his individual stats look positive. He is sloppy and lethargic in tight areas, and the lack of intricacy in his game generally leads him to plump for the uncultured, often-detrimental long pass out to the wing rather than a more incisive short pass infield. I will make one firm prediction with absolute confidence: If Rooney plays in the number 10 role all season, he will get a lot of goals and assists but his restrictive overall influence from that role will leave the team well out of the title race even by Christmas, and potentially even struggling to achieve a Champions League place. Nimble, intelligent Number 10s have finally begun to dominate the Premier League and demonstrate the importance of the role, so it’s like that Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea will be much quicker to find a real sense of fluency to their game. While United do have Kagawa, it is hard to see how he will ever be able to genuinely find his feet with Rooney at the club.
It cannot be stressed enough how difficult this job is going to be for David Moyes, especially in his first year. It’s an almost-paradoxical situation: he is taking over the reigning champions and most successful ever English club, and yet he will inherit an imbalanced squad which is in drastic need of major surgery. The early signs are that he’ll provide the current squad with the opportunity to prove themselves to him, and although I don’t think the results will be spectacular on the pitch, I think this is the wise approach to take. It’ll be far more beneficial for him to work closely with the squad for 6-12 months and analyse in full what actions need to be taken, rather than making any rushed, panicked decisions. That may result in a compromise of his own long term tactical plans, as this creaking squad would most likely respond very poorly to any major changes in playing style.
The aging, declining squad will most likely struggle to re-discover past glories, and I fear the side will start to look increasingly pedestrian in the short term. It’s important that the supporters recognise just how difficult Moyes’ job is going to be, and more importantly, try to understand that it’s not even worth judging him definitively until he starts to build a team under his own identity from 2014 onwards. In the long term, I am convinced Moyes has the capability and vision to build a great team but it’s entirely possible there’ll be 6-18 months of dark (in relative terms) times at the club. One positive to take from this new era is Moyes’ interest in big name players (Fabregas,Thiago, potentially Fellaini) and the potential that has to really establish a “big club mentality”. While United have often been associated with signing younger, more raw talents, it would only take one or two major signings over the next year or so to drastically change the perception of United in the transfer market, and their ability to make major signings
Hows it going for Utd now? 😆
Moyes is a MYTH, inherits the Champions & £70m spent on x2 Players & he is 11 points off 4th...
All dynasties come to an end. That's how things work. Get over it. It would be supremely arrogant to assume that the next manager after ferguson would kick on where he left off. Utds era is over. Just like ours was over at the beginning of the 90's. And as a liverpool fan I find it hilarious that all their whinging fans are all over the phoneins decrying their right to success...
David Moyes has promised fans of Manchester United that they will be in a major European competition next year... even if he has to write the song himself.
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to the Man U fans
Get Over Yourselves, things change, your squad is ageing, Fergie did what he did with all his good players, got shot just before they were past it. It's good for football to see 3/4 teams still in with a chance this season and Newcastle with a chance of finishing above Man u.
Something something
You'll never walk alone
Flounce
Must admit Moyes was definitely not my first choice and would have loved Guardiola.
Given an ageing team and the end of Fergie's reign we were always looking at a colossal transition period and I can accept it, however much I dislike it.
Personally I would rather spend extra money trying to bring some lads through the youth academy than on players like Fellani ala class of 93.
20 years or so at the top sometimes requires a reality check...a bit like what happened to Liverpool. We however won't take so long as them to regain our composure! 😉
Sure?
Serious question. It means a squad revamp which is big cost. Would the Glazers actually spend c £200m extra?
What astonishingly round figures, almost like they were just [b]rounded[/b] up on the spot.
FTFY
And this website says they were.
Yep exactly where I got the figures from.
You can pick from when City changed owners if you like, maybe I will choose the period that fergie took over at Utd and inherited the most expensive team in world football at the time, never been shy to splash the cash ovver the years either, 32 mill for ferdinand, that would be 80 million in today's market, 25 mill for RVP, 27mill for sideshow bob, 37 mill for Mata etc etc.
I am certainly not claiming that city haven't spent a good wedge on their squad as have chelsea. But the whinging united fans claiming that they haven't spent money on their own squad are delusional at best, over the past 2 seasons, they are right up there with city and chealsea, and far ahead of other teams above them in the league.
How feasible would it be that AF didn't want his successor to be as successful as him? He left with no succession planning in place, an ageing squad and then didn't utilise the established coaching team to carry on where he left off.
I cite the great Liverpool era of Shankly, who put in place in his number 2, Bob Paisley - who, IMHO, is still the greatest club manager this country has ever seen.
As you were 🙂
27mill for sideshow bob
I LOL'd 😆
Saccades - that article is remarkably prosaic
I think those (mainly scouters and leeds fans) gleefully predicting the permanent demise of United are indulging in a bit of wishful thinking, and conveniently forgetting what a good squad Moyes built at Everton, on a limited budget. Which Martinez is reaping the benefits of now. Thats what he's been brought in to do at OT.
Delivering instant results would have been nice, but more than a tad optimistic, to say the least. I don't think any United fans really thought, looking at the squad we've got, that we'd be challenging for the title this year. Realistically; top four isn't impossible, but its very very unlikely now
But at the Emirates the other night we actually looked like a United team for the first time this season. So hopefully thats the sign of things to come
I did genuinely have a laugh when one of my scouse mates observed 'well… thats what happens. Mid-table sides always up their game when they're playing the top four" 😀
Utd won the league not playing particularly well last season, and have carried on with that form into this season. Arsenal, City and Liverpool have all improved, Utd have simply stayed the same.
The other factor is RVP missing a chunk of the season. He basically won the league for them last time around and I'm pretty sure they would be top four or at least 5th or 6th and in touch with CL places if he'd been fit.
Moyes main mistake was thinking that he could introduce a familiar grafting culture from Everton just by transplanting Felliani across. He could see the midfield and defensive frailties developing, and was desperate to shore things up for a season.
All dynasties come to an end. That's how things work. Get over it
Yes we really should learn how to accept this fact ans there is no better example than Liverpool fans stoic acceptance of this 😉
That said Rodgers is doing a great job and he has certainly rebuilt them, upped their game and given them consistency.
But the whinging united fans claiming that they haven't spent money on their own squad are delusional at best
I dont think anyone is saying that but to claim they are up there with the likes of city in terms of spending power [ fees and wages - you cannot ignore the wages part ] is delusional.
Delivering instant results would have been nice, but more than a tad optimistic, to say the least
Whatever you want to say about the team ageing, replacing fergie, bad luck it is hard to see Jose reigning over such a demise.
The jury really is out on Moyes at the moment and we have no chance of champions league football and we are nowhere near as good as Liverpool at the minute.
I supported his appointment tbh but it is looking increasingly like he is a good manager for a struggling team but lacks the finesse to inspire flair players to play well _ the peter principle in operation perhaps, time will tell but this season he has achieved very very little to put it mildly and may well be out his depth [ he has not been helped by injuries, luck or the team though]
I dont think anyone is saying that
Yes they are, you do it again claiming they haven't matched city's spending in the very same paragraph. United have always been big spenders, they have only been outspent by city for a few years. In the past two seasons United have outspent city.
I said we cannot match city in terms of spending power - do you wish to claim Man u are richer than City or can match them ?[ Given the above I suspect you do 😉 I mean they have billionaiire owners/backers/ Man U have a debt purchase and huge loans to repay. I did not say we have not spent - you are so intent on this issue that you are not even reading/comprehending
Using the link you used
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-united-transfers.html
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-city-transfers.html
Man u 67 this year [ including mata] 63 last year
Man city 103 this year 54 last year
I shall let you do the maths on that one
The combined total is about £200 million less spent by Man u as well but hey you might just be right 😛
Its not even a debate your own links disproves your claim though its only 30 million - i think we started the chat pre Mata as well.
Again Man u are very rich and have huge spending power but City have more financial fire power as they have billionaire backers. I dont see why anyone would want to argue or debate this tbh and clearly the facts are not going to get in the way here.
Man U are rich and have spent shit loads recently City , after chelsea did the same have spend loads on wages and transfer fees. its not even controversial
You seem to think I made the first salvo in the spending claims, i am just refuting claims that Utd haven't been spending on players, as you can see united have in fact been spending big.
by the way, [b]net[/b] spend
man city 90 this year 14 last 48 the year before
United 67 this year 51 last 38 the year before
So over three years actually quite similar,
indeed but 200 million less since city hit it big and if you factor in wage spend probably the same again
Yes utd are not at all poor and they do spend big.
no one is in the same league as Man City though
we will remain top 5 spenders for ever I would assume given the fan base and income
Interestingly it was on the North West news last night that City are going ahead with their plan to expand Wastelands to a 60,000+ capacity. So the 2 biggest capacity grounds in the country (developing the most revenue) will be in Manchester. Credit where its due. City are being very clever, with the new fair play rules, at generating revenue. Which is all then being spent on the squad
Not sure rumours are some will appeal to fair play
IIRC there shirt sponsorship deal is something like 10 x the value of any other and they did this [ via a company they won] to get round the rules
yes they are building for the future though but i guess the issue is will the owner ever get bored
Forget "more". City have spent better.
So have Chelski, mostly, A few signings still look like they were made to spite rivals but there's real quality too.
Jury's still out on Buck's Liverpool spending. Sturridge , Mignolet and Countiniho success.
Aspas, Borrini, Allen, Sahko, Cissoko, Illori, Toure, Moses, Alberto, Assaidi, yet to prove better than what was there. But he has brought through a few kids from Rafa's youth set up and got results out of some good Kenny signings- Suarez and Henderson.
Things take time though, and there's as many misses as hits. Will utd have the patience for Moyes to come good (with youngsters especially) or is he a sacrificial stop-gap to break the link and set it up for the next guy?
I wonder if the coaches will still come from Wales to support Man U if Moyes is kept on..
Who is the guy with the #5 on his back?
And the bloke in the padded jacket?
Sad to watch tonight, should have gone for a run instead
On the one hand *chuckle*, on the other, I wish Joel Campbell had been recalled by Arsenal for this season now his work permit has been sorted.
Anyway. Man Utd are a team totally shot of confidence. Crazy really, given what they did last season.
Did you just see that olympiakos sub, I think he's in the Doritos band!
we have had more of the ball than your lot did - sadly we have no idea what to do with it and we so lack desire - that last bit is unforgivable.
Looking more like he is a great manager of a struggling team ,like Pulis, and out of his depth in a quality team
Can you see this happening if we has Jose ?
Declares thinking moyes was the right choice
He's on!
Woooosh!
RVP 😆
How was that not on target??
*whistles you'll never walk alone quietly in the corner then disappears humming "top of the league"*
snarf
Strangely - Man U are much better than Olympicos but will they score 3 without reply? I doubt it.
If RVP scores and they would be favourites but he didn;t and they're not.
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You have to feel for Moyes 🙁
United- really are the gift that keeps on giving--
the bookies are way behind the curve-and all the mug punters who follow that strange 'logic'-fav must win !
level stakes with every team thats played utd so far this season +58 points --that is some gift!
An absolutely woeful display last night. There was an awful lot of swearing at the telly. The worst european performance I've ever seen by a United team. They looked like a bunch of people who'd never met before, who'd inadvertently wandered into the stadium by accident. Embarrassing.
I still don't think Moyes is the main problem. Watching that abject nonsense last night, theres a list of people who've had their chance, and have demonstrated repeatedly that they're just not up to playing at this level
You know Binners if alot of Man U fans who say they are fans actually bought a ticket/season ticket/bought their latest shirts etc- they might be able to afford some top-drawer new players.
Just saying like 😉 😆
Theres little point Hora. They can afford to buy top drawer players. And always have been able too. They just choose to spend the money propping up loses-making American shopping malls, and servicing the debts of the owners instead
This is just the way the club has been run, coming home to roost. It was always a case of 'when' rather than 'if' the wheels were going to come off
I think the best thing for Ferdinand now is for him to be humanely put down.
Afford some expensive new players ? You mean like Mata ? or Fellaini ? or an £80m contract for Rooney ?
I wish some people would get rid of the concept that Man Utd are not and have not spent money.... they're spending it.... just not very well, or arguably enough of it....
Thats panic buying though, now that the reality is sinking in that they've failed to invest in the squad sufficiently, for season after season, enough to keep them in the top 4
Like I said - this is all just coming home to roost now
Because since the Glazers took over, the club has been run as a personal cash-cow for a bunch of American parasites, rather than a football club. Its a bloody miracle, and a testament to how good he is, that Fergie managed to keep it on the rails for this long